Forums - "Cheapness" does exist Show all 443 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- "Cheapness" does exist (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=453) Posted by ghgh on 01:11:2001 09:38 PM: I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap". WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you mind "cheap-ness". Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring, and pointless. An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball, sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing. The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern. Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves are "watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can include the glitched infinites in many of these new games. Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's worth, sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might be conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent) pattern might be justified as "cheap". I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of you- who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap". This was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So before saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and give him a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get good as opposed to leave the arcade and never play again. That's the bottomline. Posted by ImMature on 01:11:2001 10:05 PM: Yeah you tell 'em buddy! About time someone else had the genital fortitude to speak up his mind on this issue! Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 10:20 PM: Very good ... http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 01:11:2001 10:32 PM: Just how frequently do you use the term "Jabronee?" http://akumachan.homestead.com/files/akuma.gif It's a Colgate smile! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:11:2001 10:55 PM: How many fucking times is this topic going to be made? There's no such thing! IMO is skills. WTF died and made this people in charge? I only hear people that lose call something cheap! Get over it his better than you that's why his beating you! If you think the shit they doing is cheap and easy to do why don't you do it back to them? I guess cause you are going to realize you where sorrier than what you tough! Bitches!!!! BTW meaning of Cheap: Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster. Stingy; miserly. Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 11:05 PM: If you want to argue the definition ... one could say: "I paid cheap for this great game." Low cost ... high reward ... just another definition of cheap. http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by TheHY on 01:11:2001 11:09 PM: We all know we use metaphors in the English language, and 'cheap' is one of them. My friend uses Akuma who is cheap. But hey, I don't lose without using another cheap character or similar 'cheap' tactics. Cheap does exist, and is indeed acquired with little effort. Did I hear little effort? As in, little effort, little skill? Surely, everyone has seen Akuma players cower in corners, jumping back and forth throwing air fireballs having lost a round. If that isn't cheap, why didn't they use that tactic in the previous round then? I agree that you DO need skill to overcome cheapness but as explained the meaning of 'cheap' in certain literature: - Cheap - Cheap Victory; Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible; Stingy; Miserly. Therefore, I rest my case... Posted by Colossus on 01:11:2001 11:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by ghgh: I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap". WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you mind "cheap-ness". Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring, and pointless. An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball, sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing. The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern. Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves are "watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can include the glitched infinites in many of these new games. Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's worth, sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might be conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent) pattern might be justified as "cheap". I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of you- who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap". This was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So before saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and give him a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get good as opposed to leave the arcade and never play again. That's the bottomline. In my opinion if you suck then you deserve to lose.Cheap or not if the pattern is breakable then it's not cheap. You say that some people might have a disadvantage if they don't know how to break patterns...that's like someone complaining to me that I could do a fireball and they can't. If the game was created that way then it was meant to be used that way.I admit games like MvC2 is outta line but I just don't play it as much....see problem solved. Throwing techniques can get annoying that's why they made it so that you can't combo into a throw.Everytime I go to play Alpha 3 I always get a complain that I throw too much but I'm using zangief dammit. So my thought is if you can't break a pattern then too bad. If you don't like being thrown then play keep away. *also note that playing keep away may be considered cheap* Posted by Psycho Soldier on 01:11:2001 11:21 PM: Just to make everyone happy... Don't call the so-called questionable moves/gameplay "cheap". Call it for what it REALLY is... annoying... repetitive... predictable... FOR GOD'S SAKE, it's not "cheap"... if it's in the game it was meant to be there (besides obvious programming glitches). Good gameplay is what everyone wants... sensible gameplay is what people do... but not all good, sensible gameplay is fun. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE GAMEPLAY IS CHEAP. In the long run, it makes everyone happy... and we don't have to go through these long-winded "you have no skill" type discussions. They TRULY are sad to see. [This message has been edited by Psycho Soldier (edited 01-11-2001).] Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 11:28 PM: So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns cheap? http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:11:2001 11:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dan Hibiki: So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns cheap? Errrmmm, yes, glitches and infinites are cheap (they were never though to be there). When talking abt lockdowns you mean like doing a move that freezes the screen letting the guy with most energy win? In that case it is. Cheap doesn't equal to winner. You can be cheap and still loose miserably (making you a bigger looser). So cheapness exists, it's your decision to become a scrub (and get wacked at Japan and say joysticks worked too well) or a real player. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by TheHY: My friend uses Akuma who is cheap. But hey, I don't lose without using another cheap character or similar 'cheap' tactics. YOu call Akuma cheap and I call you a SCRUB! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colossus: In my opinion if you suck then you deserve to lose.Cheap or not if the pattern is breakable then it's not cheap. You say that some people might have a disadvantage if they don't know how to break patterns...that's like someone complaining to me that I could do a fireball and they can't. If the game was created that way then it was meant to be used that way.I admit games like MvC2 is outta line but I just don't play it as much....see problem solved. Throwing techniques can get annoying that's why they made it so that you can't combo into a throw.Everytime I go to play Alpha 3 I always get a complain that I throw too much but I'm using zangief dammit. So my thought is if you can't break a pattern then too bad. If you don't like being thrown then play keep away. *also note that playing keep away may be considered cheap* I agree and for throws, I say TechHit! Bitches! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dan Hibiki: So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns cheap? Glitches are Glitches they aren't cheap! No you can call infinites infinites and lockdowns lockdowns! Posted by PsychoSquall on 01:12:2001 01:07 AM: I think people here are divided on the what the definition of the word "cheap" is. Does it mean that there's no way out of a cheap tactic? Or is the term a type of tactic used in SF? Scrubs call people cheap, no doubt. Cheaps are a strategy used in the game. (the term probably originated from all the scrubs) I say this because in the SFA2 Versus Books Strategy Guide, (it was written by top players such as Alex Valle, John Choi, Mike Watson...) each of the characters had a section called CHEAPS. They describe tactics which they themselves label as cheap. The book defines the word cheap as: "a throw (or sure-killing technique/Super Combo throw) done at a time where an opponent will have extreme difficulty countering. This tactic feels 'cheap,' or unfair, simply because you can do something relatively easy for a big reward, while the opponent will have to do something relatively hard just to get out of it." So cheaps do exist in SF. They are a huge part of the game. Just because it's called cheap doesn't mean it can't be dealt with. Cheap is a word describing a tactic in SF. Scrubs bitch about cheapness a lot, but that's because they're ignorant. Don't let it get to you, it's just a word. [This message has been edited by PsychoSquall (edited 01-11-2001).] Posted by phillip on 01:12:2001 01:11 AM: hmmmmm... http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/phillip_2.gif Check out my faqs http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/7106.html Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 01:27 AM: I've heard Chun has been called "cheap", among other colorful names http://www.the-nextlevel.com/staff/bahn/teaminterpol.gif The Next Level "Power is useless without skill and speed" Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 01:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by bahn: I've heard Chun has been called "cheap", among other colorful names And who the fuck is Chun? Just a question Bahn! Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 01:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kelomaniac: Glitches are Glitches they aren't cheap! No you can call infinites infinites and lockdowns lockdowns![/B] So ... I can use glitches and it would be okay ... http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by Darthyang on 01:12:2001 01:54 AM: I think cheap-ness does exist... but despite what scrubs say, I think in certain games, lockdowns, traps etc. are not cheap. For example, in MvC2. There's 2 main styles of play; Keepaway and lockdown, and rushdown. Because of the way the game was designed, it's just far easier to win using the keepaway and lockdown strategy than it is to win using rushdown; that's just the way it was made, and I think if people call you cheap for playing that way, they're just ignorant. What I do consider cheap, however, is when a person plays in an absolutely skill-less manner, and abuses imbalances in the game. I don't consider traps cheap; it takes good skill to learn how to execute traps well. I however, consider Colossus cheap. 6-Hit 50% combos that people playing the game for the first time can figure out? Yeah. Cheap, in my opinion. == http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/ff8seifer.gif "The way I look at it, as long as you make it out of battle alive, you're one step closer to fulfilling your dream." -Seifer Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 02:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dan Hibiki: So ... I can use glitches and it would be okay ... It would be find by me! The only glitch that i would mind is the gambit glitch but I would give a fuck! Cause 1st you have to be winning! Posted by Crusader on 01:12:2001 02:11 AM: You'll never see a winner call the loser a cheap player. But how many times do you see the loser say it? Hmmmm.... Posted by DrunkinB on 01:12:2001 02:48 AM: good point Crusader Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 02:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by Crusader: You'll never see a winner call the loser a cheap player. But how many times do you see the loser say it? Hmmmm.... I just wander where the fuck have you been! I couldn't explained it better! P. S. MODS if the guy thosen't have a shield how can you tell he got a KARMA? Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 02:54 AM: quote: And who the fuck is Chun? Just a question Bahn! I wasn't referring to a player, I am speaking of Chun Li man...c'mon, I thought that was pretty obvious [This message has been edited by bahn (edited 01-11-2001).] Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 03:01 AM: quote: P. S. MODS if the guy thosen't have a shield how can you tell he got a KARMA? Well, Inkblot mentioned looking at the source code awhile back (but that's like really odd to see someone go to such an extent to monitor their own karma). The most obvious is to look at the glowing area around their shields, as the karma increases, the glowing effect will become brighter. Of course, if you get negative karma, it will show up as you gain -1 or more, and if it continues (simply because you have the inability to follow guidelines and such) - you can end up being banned. Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:12:2001 03:08 AM: cant we move on from this topic? there is no such thing as cheap. period. if someone plays cheap then that is just strategy, even if it includes a trap or glitch. dont complain just because youre getting hit or losing. deal with it. stop complaining and learn how to kick some ass. plus, the only definition of cheap is what kelo said. Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:46 AM: Bullshit. Fuckin gambit glitch users are the bottom of the shit barrel. Its like they can choose when the fight ends. What kind of BULLSHIT is that!?!?!!?!?!?!!? http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love ... fucker Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 03:47 AM: I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish, watch the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you see them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even tech hit consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical solution to everything. Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when you know nothing. P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros? Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:48 AM: Glitches are fucked up things that arent suppozed to be in the fuckin game. [This message has been edited by JohnShaft (edited 01-11-2001).] Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by YOUHEARDME: I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish, watch the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you see them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even tech hit consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical solution to everything. Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when you know nothing. P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros? Right the fuck on YOUHEARDME!!! That fuckin hater hope he gets whats coming to him when he grows the fuck up! http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love ... fucker Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 04:05 AM: Heh, I like your sig John Shaft, but I wouldn't bother arguing with most guys at shoryuken.com unless it's a flame war over a silly topic that I started You see, they don't bother reading half the stuff you put and just want to flame you. They somehow find it appalling to them that if you don't think exactly like they do, the get all upset and stupid and think it's necessary to "educate". The only reason that I posted anything is cuz that Kelomaniac isn't too smart and annoys me, I mean, 3909 posts and most of them are him spouting crap out the keyboard. Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 04:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by YOUHEARDME: Heh, I like your sig John Shaft, but I wouldn't bother arguing with most guys at shoryuken.com unless it's a flame war over a silly topic that I started You see, they don't bother reading half the stuff you put and just want to flame you. They somehow find it appalling to them that if you don't think exactly like they do, the get all upset and stupid and think it's necessary to "educate". The only reason that I posted anything is cuz that Kelomaniac isn't too smart and annoys me, I mean, 3909 posts and most of them are him spouting crap out the keyboard. Damn you said it. Just cause you dont say what they wanna fuckin hear they call you scrub and flame you like its no tomorrow. Its good meeting someone real around here. I have a feeling Im gonna get banned pretty soon. I wonder the fuck why? http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love ... fucker Posted by Chocobo on 01:12:2001 04:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by ghgh: I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap". WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you mind "cheap-ness". "Cheap" exists- it is simply an excuse for someone without skill who wants to blame his losses on something besides himself. quote: Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring, and pointless. That sounds about right. Since there are virtually no patterns that cannot be broken, the only way something can be "cheap" is if your opponent lacks skill. So if he calls your tactics cheap, that's nothing but saying he lacks skill himself. quote: An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball, sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing. Yes, there is. He can jump upwards over the fireballs, slowly advance on the opponent, and then go for a repeated throw trap that is difficult to escape. [B][QUOTE] The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern. [B][QUOTE] <rest of quote snipped> Basically, "cheap" means "I suck too much to make this a close fight so I'll blame you instead of myself". So who cares what some scrubby morons think? Why is this a topic yet again? Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 04:46 AM: Thanks, you just prove my point even more about freakin haters. http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love ... fucker Posted by Dangerous on 01:12:2001 05:04 AM: Do most of you guys play other games besides Street Fighter and the like? You would probably relize, like I did, that cheapness is really anybodys sort of decision whether he/she wants to use it or not. heh, I don't think somebody is going to use a gambit glitch don't you think? That would sure stop the game now wouldn't it? No fun at all! In MvC2 I use some cheap stuff and I still get my ass whooped, and I get called cheap at the same time for it! I personally don't mind cheap stuff in games too much. I still have fun, no matter what. Just a game, right? Sometimes it's more than that, but common, that's only tournament material, where there's more involved than just the five dollars you intended to spend. I think players should learn to tolerate each other, no matter how they play. Kind of like putting the picture together or something. Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 05:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dangerous: Do most of you guys play other games besides Street Fighter and the like? You would probably relize, like I did, that cheapness is really anybodys sort of decision whether he/she wants to use it or not. heh, I don't think somebody is going to use a gambit glitch don't you think? That would sure stop the game now wouldn't it? No fun at all! In MvC2 I use some cheap stuff and I still get my ass whooped, and I get called cheap at the same time for it! I personally don't mind cheap stuff in games too much. I still have fun, no matter what. Just a game, right? Sometimes it's more than that, but common, that's only tournament material, where there's more involved than just the five dollars you intended to spend. I think players should learn to tolerate each other, no matter how they play. Kind of like putting the picture together or something. That's profound ^_^ ::golfclap:: hehehe ... http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:12:2001 08:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by ghgh: I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap". WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you mind "cheap-ness". Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring, and pointless. An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball, sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing. The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern. Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves are "watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can include the glitched infinites in many of these new games. Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's worth, sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might be conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent) pattern might be justified as "cheap". I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of you- who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap". This was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So before saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and give him a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get good as opposed to leave the arcade and never play again. That's the bottomline. Maybe you're right. Maybe cheapness in fact does and will always exist. I guess there's only one way to eliminate cheapness, and that is for you to stop playing. Are you confused? Let me elaborate. Have you ever heard the saying: When a tree falls, in a deserted area, does it make any noise? How can sound exist, when there is no one around to hear it? Same thing for this situation. If you stop playing it will solve the existence of cheapness because how can cheapness possibly exist where there are no scrubs to see it? Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 08:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by YOUHEARDME: I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish, watch the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you see them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even tech hit consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical solution to everything. HA HA HA, That's just 4 Clips out of how many? The same Clips that people are judging the game of the players? The same Clips that people are talking about ordinary skills! Shut the fuck up bro! I see Valle, Viscant, Duc tech hitting all the fucking time! As a matter fact the MvsC2 tourny last year that I have recorded! I see like a fucking dozen of tech hits in one match from Duc! We where laughing about that! He came up too me and said KELO did you like those tech hits!? Bitch so shut the fuck up! quote: Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when you know nothing. Well bitch answwer Crus. question how many people in the arcade that wins call his shit cheap? Give me a ... ohhh ... nevermind! quote: P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros? Well I can answer that question since most of my post come from work!(Can you belive it? I get pay and enjoy my self at the same time, just like your mom that whore). P. S. Who of ya player haters think about me the most! HA HA HA HA HA HA. Ya give me satisfaction! I guess when you are num 1 you have a target in your head! Bitches!!!!! Posted by Mr_Geese on 01:12:2001 08:10 AM: I like to play cheap and I do not mind cheapness. It is better than pretending to be good and you are not, so I have to play cheap and bust you up to show you how weak you are. (*^_^*) Posted by AmakusaShiroTokisada on 01:12:2001 08:49 AM: Not again! Geese is leading a hostile mob of the ignorant in a deliberate effort to deride the forum, this disturbance must be obviated. Suffer humans!!!!!!! Posted by ASSMASTERX on 01:12:2001 09:40 AM: Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw. The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS. What the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL LIKE FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY. PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS! Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:12:2001 09:41 AM: Not this arguement again. People have already begun to lose their tempers. Let each man to his own opinion. Case closed. Posted by CaliStorm on 01:12:2001 10:14 AM: TESTING Posted by Strider Hiryu on 01:12:2001 10:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: Not this arguement again. People have already begun to lose their tempers. Let each man to his own opinion. Case closed. I agree... oh yeah... I dont care how you play, but if you pull some ruby heart/gambit freeze bullshit with me, i prolly will start some shit... http://www.geocities.com/to2008/StriderTag.gif Prepare to DIE....[8/27] Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 02:01 PM: Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom, they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them and making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according to the way you like. 4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I watched them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take that proof over your stupidity. Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my mom gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all the money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth, LOL. [This message has been edited by YOUHEARDME (edited 01-12-2001).] Posted by The Raging Demon on 01:12:2001 04:57 PM: If you ask me, cheapness does exist but it is not as big a problem as people seem to think. I think being cheap in any video game is to do things that are really easy, and incredibly affective. For instance, in Soul Calibur, if you pick Sigfried, by pressing vertical, vertical, vertical, you do a high-high-low attack which is very damaging, relatively quick and has a fast recovery rate. However once you are used to blocking it or develope a counter to this, it is a very minor threat. Examples like this exist in many games of all genres. http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/SIG.jpg Gato is god. Hang on, no he isn't, he's gato! Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:12:2001 04:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by YOUHEARDME: Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom, they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them and making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according to the way you like. 4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I watched them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take that proof over your stupidity. Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my mom gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all the money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth, LOL. [This message has been edited by YOUHEARDME (edited 01-12-2001).] A bit harsh and not professional. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:12:2001 06:33 PM: Ah, this thread began with an interesting post and was Ok until a bunch of retards showed up. Guess some idiots think that calling someone else "scrub" gives them the instant victory. Say, i can play against a guy using cheap patterns, beat him and still call him cheap. Why? Because he's boring and made me repeatedly trash him using one or two techniques over and over again (there are not infinite ways to stop a cheap pattern, only one or two). So cheap not equal to effective (can you read that?). Now, why do people constantly say cheapness doesn't exist and it's the looser the one who calls other people cheap? Well, the answer is obvious, because they're scrubs, they cannot play in a non-cheap fashion (aka showing a good gameplay) so they must eliminate what points them as scrubs, by saying cheapness doesn't exist. Now I wonder why am I wasting my time with retards. Posted by Crusader on 01:12:2001 10:18 PM: O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a scrub to make himself feel better. Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle, do you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get around throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days, or don't play the game. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:12:2001 10:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by Crusader: O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a scrub to make himself feel better. Have you ever played against someone who does repeatedly the same thing over and over again? Did you noticed that to counter it you sometimes have to do an equally repetitive pattern? ('cause that pattern is the only way to counter his shit) Now do you enjoy playing that way? It's not abt who wins, it's abt how much fun you've got from the token. quote: Originally posted by Crusader: Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle, do you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get around throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days, or don't play the game. Again, if there is only a way for me to counter a cheap pattern then I'll use it. And one thing is playing for the fun, and other thing is competition (where your aim is to win). Even though if a non cheap technique can be used, then I'll take that path. It's my choice to be or not cheap, but you cannot say cheapness doesn't exists. Sory to disappoint you but my post was a very though one as this matter has been discussed many times in many places. Posted by ImMature on 01:12:2001 10:41 PM: Cheap play DOES exist & has 2 different uses: 1) To help cheapos beat the newbies and to make the newbies become even cheaper (in the hopes of winning someday) 2) To bore the experienced players (who have seen all this crappy paterns being used in the past over & over again, so they know very well how to counteract 'em all) to death Conclussion: If you lose be original and don't blame it on cheapness. Blame it on the controller working fine instead. Just like the so-called expert players who don't believe in cheapness: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/For...TML/000012.html Posted by Shishio-sama on 01:12:2001 10:59 PM: For me,the only thing that is cheap is breaking my opponents fingers before or after we play.Stop this cheap nonsense and play. "Strength and Honor" Maximus Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 11:01 PM: Glitches, although may not be cheap, give an unfair advantage. http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by TheHY on 01:12:2001 11:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kelomaniac: YOu call Akuma cheap and I call you a SCRUB! [/b] Akuma IS "cheap" in a sense that he has more cheap tactics than most characters. I don't mind players using "cheap" tactics on me because I know how to deal with them. Therefore I am no "scrub". If I were, I wouldn't be writing a Parrying FAQ and neither would I be enjoying the hell out of myself beating players who use such tactics. Don't get me wrong, I don't bitch about cheapness, because I can deal with it and accept for a fact that it exists. I prefer to play without having to resort to cheap tactics because I want to be skillful at the game and diversify. IMO, it is fine for beginners to play cheap tactics to get to know the game and to size up against advanced challengers. But for an advanced player to play cheap, it is unthinkable. "You Have no Dignity" - Look who's talking? [This message has been edited by TheHY (edited 01-12-2001).] Posted by Mr_Geese on 01:12:2001 11:36 PM: That is why I like Akuma... (*^_^*) Posted by Iceman on 01:13:2001 01:18 AM: Oh boy, "Who let the scrubs out?! Cheap! Cheap! Cheap Cheap!" So, I forgot, what's cheap again. Low cost, high reward. Well, in that case find a previous post of mine from about a month ago where I demonstrate that 53 out of 56 MvC2 characters are cheap thanks to this definition (Morrigan, Roll, and Amingo were not). Something repetative is cheap? And someone has already said you must be repetative (therefore cheap yourself) to counter it. Hell, I think it is pretty damn funny when I do the same counter over and over again and my opponent STILL trys the same thing. A good example, last time I played a group of people in MvC2, I had Ken as my AAA. These guys kept trying to jump in, to land combos, and I knocked them out of the sky with Ken 95% of the time they jumped (the other 5% they got smart and blocked). I was repetative (and cheap) because they were too predictable. It's been said something predicatable is cheap. If a pattern is so predicatable, why don't you counter it? Is it because you suck?! We have too many people here who think they are actually GOOD. BTW, I forgot who said this, just because you write a FAQ, it doesn't automatically make you good. Look at 90% of the FAQs for MvC2 at gamefaqs.com. They suck!! You have one saying the "Ultimate Cheese Team" is Spider-Man/Guile/Iceman. You have another saying Strider is just average, while Guile is one of the best on the game. I'd hate to see what they thought if they saw my "slightly above average" Spiral/Sentinel(or Doom or Sabretooth)/Blackheart. IMO the Ultimate Cheese Team would be Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops (charge a full meter, DHC HailStorm, HSF, fierce, DHC HSF, MOB, HailStorm, rinse repeat) or Blackheart/Storm/Cyclops (same thing with Inferndo xx HoD, HailStorm, Lighting Storm, MOB, HoD). On a final note, I'm like a good bad guy on WWF. I LOVE to hear boooos and crys of cheap from the crowd, or my opponent. It's music to my ears. I know I've gotten into their heads when they start crying cheap. It seems some player has managed to get into a lot of your heads. Instead of crying cheap, why don't you ask how to beat the cheese? I call Gambit glitch cheap, because it is an "illegal" (i.e. banned from any decent tournament) glitch. It is gamebreaking. Everything else (juggy glitch, AHVB) is powerful, but not quite gamebreaking. I call lots of stuff cheese and BS (like 90% of MvC2) jokingly. But in a serious conversation, NOTHING IS CHEAP Posted by Mega Man X on 01:13:2001 02:18 AM: Yes there is Cheapness what the hell u guys talking about. I use Mega Man alot. Hes my man guy on MVC2 i know when i'm being cheap. When i sit there and start firing off a few fireballs and turn into hyper mega man thats cheap, i have grudge for that agianest any Cable players they know what i'm talking about, how sit there and jump and do Hyper Venom Fucking Viper all day Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:13:2001 02:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mega Man X: Yes there is Cheapness what the hell u guys talking about. I use Mega Man alot. Hes my man guy on MVC2 i know when i'm being cheap. When i sit there and start firing off a few fireballs and turn into hyper mega man thats cheap, i have grudge for that agianest any Cable players they know what i'm talking about, how sit there and jump and do Hyper Venom Fucking Viper all day I don't believe things are cheap because even if a pattern is 99.9% unbreakable, even if I lost to that lock down, I wouldn't make excuses. It would be my fault for not finding that .1% of a chance to get an opening, and win the match. Posted by TheHY on 01:13:2001 03:22 AM: Perhaps we all seem to be drifting off a bit on this topic. Almost all the arguments use MvC2 as its basis for determining whether cheapness exists. I'm not an avid MvC2 fan, but having read all the arguments (and the humour) it seems that MvC2's tactics are totally different and unique to those of other Vs. games. From what I can see, I have to agree that given the number of long distance moves i.e. Cable/Cyclops, they're put there to be used most efficiently. By efficiently, I am sure we all understand that employing such "cheap" tactics are the methods of using these moves most effectively. In MvC2's case, I have to say that such tactics aren't cheap. The resources are there to be used at their optimum. After much thought, I firmly believe that cheapness does exist. However, cheap shouldn't be the word to use. What we really mean is 'dirty tactics', or as some have mentioned 'little effort, high returns'. These have become what we term "cheap". Unfair? Not likely, for we need to know what we mean by unfair. Unfair as in e.g. Alpha 2/3 Shin Akuma throwing double air fireballs all day? Maybe but if I was playing a beginner who employed this, I would accept it with open arms and say 'Let me teach you how to play this game better' and then I would have recruited a fellow avid player, instead of "bitching" at "cheapness" and stopping more players from playing the game. My final word is this. Cheap is just a term we have given ourselves to express our frustration over tactics that have been employed repetitively, with little effort and high effectiveness. We mean to say 'that's unfair' or 'stop doing that' or as the so called "scrubs" say "I'm plain s**t, I can't take a good licking without learning how to overcome it". Enough said. I thank everybody for reading this. And God bless those "scrubs". Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:13:2001 09:03 AM: Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this forum a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet again..... Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over that gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I love it when idiots use this term). So I do the most difficult thing possible...... I'll hit him with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is it more difficult, it's pretty much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #2...... Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does but apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me get this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who barely has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill him with a Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit him with a weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the same amount of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #3...... Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If I'm Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a disadvantage from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip damage by doing the Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble dealing with it, I SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then? Pray he doesn't bust me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or should I just try to dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am I even allowed to dash in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE MY CHARACTER'S EFFECTIVENESS?! I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used. WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell? Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if there were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal would you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"? This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new? PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that...... Traps aren't cheap Chip Damage isn't cheap Throwing isn't cheap Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for another three months. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: STOP THE MADNESS!!!!! Posted by phillip on 01:13:2001 10:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this forum a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet again..... Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over that gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I love it when idiots use this term). So I do the most difficult thing possible...... I'll hit him with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is it more difficult, it's pretty much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #2...... Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does but apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me get this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who barely has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill him with a Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit him with a weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the same amount of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #3...... Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If I'm Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a disadvantage from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip damage by doing the Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble dealing with it, I SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then? Pray he doesn't bust me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or should I just try to dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am I even allowed to dash in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE MY CHARACTER'S EFFECTIVENESS?! I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used. WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell? Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if there were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal would you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"? This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new? PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that...... Traps aren't cheap Chip Damage isn't cheap Throwing isn't cheap Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for another three months. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: STOP THE MADNESS!!!!! ____________________________________________ That was alot of writing http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/phillip_2.gif Check out my faqs http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/7106.html Posted by ImMature on 01:13:2001 10:34 PM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: If my opponent jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? [/B] WTF? Who in the world would call that stuff 'cheap'?!? If someone calls using anti-air as they're supposed to 'cheap' then he simply doesn't know what he's talking about quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new? PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that...... Traps aren't cheap Chip Damage isn't cheap Throwing isn't cheap Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap[/B] Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need for him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal throwing are. This is the way I see it: Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it and lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck cares anyway? Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to discover certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy victories and therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But it's mostly cause without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or 2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for those people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP instead of being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet Posted by ImMature on 01:13:2001 10:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman: Hell, I think it is pretty damn funny when I do the same counter over and over again and my opponent STILL trys the same thing. Y-you actually find that funny?!? Gods how do I hate it, it annoys me to no end! In those cases I tend to start shouting "WTF ARE YOU DOING, YOU MORON? CAN'T YOU SEE IT'S NOT WORKING!!" at the poor guy just outta boredom Posted by HyperViperSniper on 01:13:2001 10:47 PM: You know after reading all of these posts I have noticed almost everyone has something constructive to say except Kelomaniac... I would first of all like to say..I dont find much "cheapness" in many games I have played..but with Marvel Vs Capcom 2 I have to say this game has the most glitches out of any game I have ever played... When you are a great game player and want respect why use a move or character that has the ability to overcome another character and win because of a glitch??? Thats NOT respect and shows a lack of gaming ability... When I go into an arcade and play against someone whether I win or lose if they beat me hands down with exception skill that requires more than a "one frame super" or an infinite combo that locks your character in the block frame or traps you within a block frame then I will give you respect.. I have been playing games for quite sometime and I find Marvel Vs Capcom 2 Fun..but a game that requires little skill when you can pick the right combination of "glitch and or trap based" characters... regardless of what excuse someone gives me to use these tactics they can "talk to the hand" Oh yeah Kelo...why dont you give us some useful information instead of typing outta your ass...you need to wipe off your keyboard as much shit as you talk I bet your keys are brown.. Hype Vipe and All Right!!! http://homepage.mac.com/korintower/.Pictures/sprites/vegitto_p.gif Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:15:2001 04:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need for him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal throwing are. This is the way I see it: Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it and lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck cares anyway? Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to discover certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy victories and therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But it's mostly cause without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or 2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for those people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP instead of being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet "STYLISH".... LOL! What the hell is that? Is this anything like "True Skill"? I love it when people use these cryptic words that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING SOMEONE WHO'S WORTH A DAMN!! So let me get this straight..... If I can take some dumbass out just by throwing, and I do so, I'm being "cheap"? No no, that's right.... I'm not being "stylish". ABUSE of THROWS DO NOT compromise the integrity of the game/break the laws of the game (which is what this word "cheap" means in a game related terms). Neither does turtling. Doing these things are called "STRATEGY". Is it a "Good Strategy"? Depends. I don't think so. If you abuse anything against me, I'm damn sure gonna find out a way to make you pay for it! You know, so many people think that "fighting with honor" and "winning pretty" actually mean something. And, HEAVEN FORBID, anyone do something that breaks these "laws of fighting". We're just not worthy of being played because we fight to win AT ALL COSTS that don't compromise the integrity of the game. Well, what the hell makes you think we want to play you? If you're not going to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN (outside of breaking the laws of the video game itself) then GO HOME!! I don't want to play weaklings. I want to play the people who want to win!! Take your pretty shit AND LEAVE ME ALONE!! This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: Has anybody seen my analog stick? No.. not the controller, just the ANALOG part..... it broke off somewhere after I threw it out the door and into the hallway. Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 07:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: "STYLISH".... LOL! What the hell is that? Is this anything like "True Skill"? I love it when people use these cryptic words that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING SOMEONE WHO'S WORTH A DAMN!! More often than not (at least in KOF) the cheaper a player is, the crappier. "Someone who's worth a damn" doesn't have the need to be sooo cheap. I wonder why most people here have such a hard time trying to understand something that simple... quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: So let me get this straight..... If I can take some dumbass out just by throwing, and I do so, I'm being "cheap"? No no, that's right.... I'm not being "stylish". If you can take said dumbass out just by throwing, then I'm sure you could beat him by using a less repetitive/cheap pattern. That is your chance to show off and amaze the people watching, y'know? quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: ABUSE of THROWS DO NOT compromise the integrity of the game/break the laws of the game (which is what this word "cheap" means in a game related terms). Neither does turtling. Doing these things are called "STRATEGY". Is it a "Good Strategy"? Depends. I don't think so. If you abuse anything against me, I'm damn sure gonna find out a way to make you pay for it! You call that stuff "strategy"?!? LOL. Crappy cheap-ass tactics, I'd say. And OF COURSE you'll find out a way to make 'im pay for it...unless you're a newbie to the game, in which case you'll just learn yet another way to be cheap in said game quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: You know, so many people think that "fighting with honor" and "winning pretty" actually mean something. And, HEAVEN FORBID, anyone do something that breaks these "laws of fighting". We're just not worthy of being played because we fight to win AT ALL COSTS that don't compromise the integrity of the game. Well, what the hell makes you think we want to play you? If you're not going to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN (outside of breaking the laws of the video game itself) then GO HOME!! I don't want to play weaklings. I want to play the people who want to win!! Take your pretty shit AND LEAVE ME ALONE!! Hey why so pissed off? I'm not even telling you to change your style so stop telling me to change mine. Can't you see that when you're really experienced at a game you already know what the (so-called) cheap patterns are so you could use 'em in yer own benefit IF YOU WANTED TO? No "laws of fighting", at least for me, you (meaning anyone) can play me as you please and then we will see if your "to win at all costs" stuff can beat my knowledge of the game. If you actually win then you're superior although you've used the kinda patterns I label as cheap, no problem at all and I won't complain. Y'know, you're sick of people endorsing those so-called "laws of fighting" and I can understand it. But I myself am sick of playing retarded cheapos at my local arcade, people who dishonour a superb game like KOF that NEVER was made to be played that way, so try to understand me as well This has been ImMature saying: "Retarded people should NOT play KOF. They should go play Mortal Kombat instead" Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 08:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman: Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this forum a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet again..... Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over that gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I love it when idiots use this term). So I do the most difficult thing possible...... I'll hit him with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is it more difficult, it's pretty much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #2...... Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does but apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me get this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who barely has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill him with a Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit him with a weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the same amount of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #3...... Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If I'm Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a disadvantage from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip damage by doing the Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble dealing with it, I SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then? Pray he doesn't bust me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or should I just try to dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am I even allowed to dash in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE MY CHARACTER'S EFFECTIVENESS?! I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used. WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell? Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if there were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal would you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"? This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new? PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that...... Traps aren't cheap Chip Damage isn't cheap Throwing isn't cheap Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for another three months. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: STOP THE MADNESS!!!!! I.....agree........completely. THERE! I SAID IT! I FINALLY AGREE WITH THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN ON SOMETHING!! GODDAMNIT!!! He's right, though. This topic has been killed 500 times and then beaten w/an ugly stick. Go check out Domination 101's article on "Cheapness". We knocked that bitch three ways to Sunday a LONG time ago. Go read what was written, and if you still wanna argue, go ahead and try to resurrect the topic. Generally speaking, most techniques that are accused of being cheap are either a.) Extremely effective, or b.) Glitches. Then there is c.) Anything that I can't get around at the current moment and I don't wanna admit that it's because of my lack of skill, so I call the other player "cheap" and "dishonorable", because I'm too lazy to work around it at the time! I went through this stage of gaming, and BELIEVE ME, I know how it feels. I used to want to go for the "stylish win", and flex my "skills" by being able to beat effective tactics w/inferior tactics that looked nice. I call this my "Hayato stage", mainly because I kept trying to beat people w/my Hayato/Jin/anyone else team. And Hayato was my main character. It has been firmly established that Hayato SUCKS ASS in MVC2. But I kept going on, believing that I could beat everyone if I kept practicing and tried to find new tactics (I found some good ones, too). But in the end, I realized that I can't beat superior abilities and tactics with my effort and "skills". Every time I lost to a Cable team, I said it was because my opponent was "cheap" and didn't wanna fight me for real. But the truth is, that is immature crap for people who don't want to face up to reality and play the game right. Yes, playing games is about having fun. But the objective of fighting games is to beat the living shit out of the other guy. And if you can't reach your objective, well, you probably aren't having any fun, now are you? This is why there is such a big argument over "cheapness". Most things get accused of being "cheap" because they beat the people who do the accusing. That's why calling stuff "cheap" is seen by the majority of the serious gaming community as the act of whining over a loss. That's why a lot of hardcore gamers don't take threads like these seriously. Now stop the madness. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 08:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: He's right, though. This topic has been killed 500 times and then beaten w/an ugly stick. Go check out Domination 101's article on "Cheapness". We knocked that bitch three ways to Sunday a LONG time ago. Yeah just believe EVERYTHING Seth says without hesitation cause he's a god. So whenever you get your ass kicked don't blame it on yer opponent's cheapness but on the controller working fine instead. Just like Seth'd do quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Go read what was written, and if you still wanna argue, go ahead and try to resurrect the topic. I'm no English major so, although I've been heavily into fighters since '91, I just don't deserve to talk to Seth. According to him, any grammatical mistake would prove my whole point wrong quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Generally speaking, most techniques that are accused of being cheap are either a.) Extremely effective, or b.) Glitches. Extremely effective...against *newbies* or such. Experienced players already know how to counteract all that crap quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: I went through this stage of gaming, and BELIEVE ME, I know how it feels. I used to want to go for the "stylish win", and flex my "skills" by being able to beat effective tactics w/inferior tactics that looked nice. I call this my "Hayato stage", mainly because I kept trying to beat people w/my Hayato/Jin/anyone else team. And Hayato was my main character. It has been firmly established that Hayato SUCKS ASS in MVC2. But I kept going on, believing that I could beat everyone if I kept practicing and tried to find new tactics (I found some good ones, too). But in the end, I realized that I can't beat superior abilities and tactics with my effort and "skills". So you TRIED to reach Phase 3 but yer lack of skill did make you return to Phase 2. A pity. Look, both Billy & Mature "suck" in KOF'98 (respectively compared to their Real Bout & KOF'96 versions). But they're 2 of my favorite SNK chars EVER so I practiced & practiced with 'em to the point of reaching a good gameplay level so now I can easily beat '99 DM Omega Rugal *cheapos* just with 'em. Y'know what's the big deal about using underdogs? Most opponents ain't used to play against 'em so they'll have a hard time trying to figure out what their tactics will be. The Japanese guy who kicked everyone's asses at SF3 3rd Strike used (oh my gawd) *Q*, didn't he? This is *exactly* what I'm talking about quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Every time I lost to a Cable team, I said it was because my opponent was "cheap" and didn't wanna fight me for real. But the truth is, that is immature crap for people who don't want to face up to reality and play the game right. Yes, playing games is about having fun. But the objective of fighting games is to beat the living shit out of the other guy. And if you can't reach your objective, well, you probably aren't having any fun, now are you? Then again, who the fuck cares about what the loser may make up as a excuse?? I wonder why you people make such a big deal about what happens AFTER the game... Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 08:29 AM: Everytime someone takes the "Stylish" way out they compromise there win. Your way is the impracticle way. Besides, bieng "stylish" is also called being a show off. You want to look good? Win. Again, you and Ryoga's argument is that the "cheap" players are boring. You sound exactly like those VS game loving fools who think KOF is slow and boring(who also complain about how "boring" the graphics are). Your demoting yourself to there level everytime you bring up the boring excuse. "Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal throwing are. This is the way I see it" ABUSE of normal throws? If its not beating you(like you say) then its not abuse. It has to be effectivly hurting you for it to be abuse. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need for him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal throwing are. This is the way I see it: Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it and lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck cares anyway? Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to discover certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy victories and therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But it's mostly cause without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or 2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for those people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP instead of being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 08:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Everytime someone takes the "Stylish" way out they compromise there win. Your way is the impracticle way. Besides, bieng "stylish" is also called being a show off. You want to look good? Win. I wanna look good whenever I win. What's the problem? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Again, you and Ryoga's argument is that the "cheap" players are boring. You sound exactly like those VS game loving fools who think KOF is slow and boring(who also complain about how "boring" the graphics are). Your demoting yourself to there level everytime you bring up the boring excuse. Our argument is boring? Cheap players bore me even worse. And WTF does this have to do with RETARDED people saying that KOF is slow?? I just don't get it quote: Originally posted by Kamui: ABUSE of normal throws? If its not beting you(like you say) than its not abuse. It has to be effectivly hurting you for it to be abuse. Why?!? Abuse = repeating something over & over again. It doesn't matter if it actually hurts me or not. Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound like chi... Posted by ShroomMasTerMeTh on 01:15:2001 08:44 AM: i play my friend who doesnt know how to pull off most specials or supers and he also forgets about blocking. I consider it to be cheap for me to consistantly do HPHPHPHP VB HVB (its fun to do) or keep him locked down if i KNOW he isnt going to even put up a fight and will just go away feeling shitty spending 50 cents. so i will play using either akuma dan and roll or i just wont do anything i am consistant with. i used to have trouble with remembering evercharacters launchers in MvC so i played him only using launchers. if i really felt like winning i would let him at least make him feel like he is winning, throw a super going the wrong way and whatnot but kill him at the end. i could crush him and not get the slightest scratch if i felt like itbut i dont need the puny satisfaction of having a skill as unimportant as fighter video games. i know ppl that could beat anyone of u in street fighter games just because they would intimidate u. my bottom line is that is mean to useur full potential at a skill u excel at in order to make another person feel inferior. besides if u guys truly had skills u wouldnt have first timers in ur best combos u would have semi-regulars in a level 3 raging demon or a suicidal dan move perhaps beating somone without blocking or jumping(fuckin try it). If you want help, go to a support group. If you need help, come to me. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 09:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Yeah just believe EVERYTHING Seth says without hesitation cause he's a god. So whenever you get your ass kicked don't blame it on yer opponent's cheapness but on the controller working fine instead. Just like Seth'd do Excuse me, but I don't remember saying at any point that Seth was a "god". I don't agree with s-kill just because he's s-kill. I agree with him because I find a lot of the stuff he says to be true, out of my own experiences. Get your unchecked rage under control, buddy. Just because someone agrees w/a moderator doesn't make them an ass-licking scrub. BTW, if I lose a fight, I don't blame it on anybody. I just look at the situation to see what I did wrong, and what I can do to avoid it in the future (ie, if going for that stylish-looking strategy that is so well thought out doesn't work, I try to find another. Easy). Don't assume you know everything about me, considering that you have never seen how I play or know how I think, you arrogant asshole. quote: I'm no English major so, although I've been heavily into fighters since '91, I just don't deserve to talk to Seth. According to him, any grammatical mistake would prove my whole point wrong You apparently have a whole lot of pent-up anger and resentment towards Seth Killian. I would appreciate it if you kept it to yourself. I am not Seth, and I don't give a flying fuck what happened between you two in Domination 101 in the past. quote: Extremely effective...against *newbies* or such. Experienced players already know how to counteract all that crap This is a bunch of bullshit. Don't tell me that tournament-winning stuff like Doom/Strider trap and AHVB X 3 hasn't been accused of being cheap. You could be the most experienced player in the world, and I still bet a good Doom player or Spiral/Cable/Cyclops could give you a run for your money. You are so full of yourself. quote: So you TRIED to reach Phase 3 but yer lack of skill did make you return to Phase 2. A pity. Look, both Billy & Mature "suck" in KOF'98 (respectively compared to their Real Bout & KOF'96 versions). But they're 2 of my favorite SNK chars EVER so I practiced & practiced with 'em to the point of reaching a good gameplay level so now I can easily beat '99 DM Omega Rugal *cheapos* just with 'em. Y'know what's the big deal about using underdogs? Most opponents ain't used to play against 'em so they'll have a hard time trying to figure out what their tactics will be. The Japanese guy who kicked everyone's asses at SF3 3rd Strike used (oh my gawd) *Q*, didn't he? This is *exactly* what I'm talking about Did I forget to mention that I can still rip "cheap" Cable players a new asshole w/Hayato, even though it's hard as hell? You talk about "lack of skill", and yet I see nothing that you have said to be indicative of having skill. Fucking arrogance, I tell ya. BTW, I can kill your Mature/Billy team w/KOF 99 Kyo by himself. Like it makes a difference. You can beat amateurish little Rugal users who probably don't know shit about the game in the first place. Let's take someone with your "skill level", and place him in the seat of Omega Rugal. He uses some of the same "cheap" tactics as the aforementioned defeated one. And he kills you. Why? Because unlike the amateur, he can use these "cheap" skills better than the average player. He has better timing, better execution, he actually takes the time to watch what you are doing, whatever. What I'm trying to say is, saying you can beat a bad player who uses those "cheap" tactics says nothing about the tactic. It simply points out that the person using the tactic was less skilled that you are (assuming you have skills). Make any argument you want to about using "underdog" characters. You can use the most obscure character in the world, and chances are whatever advantage that obscureness will give you is minimal if you are playing against a person of equal skill who is using a more effective character with a "cheap" strategy. Your sheer arrogance sickens me. Get it through your head: beating an amateur Rugal user w/Mature and Billy Kane does NOT make you the man. I assure you, a person of your equal skill level using the same tactics will do much better. quote: Then again, who the fuck cares about what the loser may make up as a excuse?? I wonder why you people make such a big deal about what happens AFTER the game... It's a learning experience, you little rat bastard. The person who says shit is "cheap" will never get any better and will always be the same little scrub unable to better himself. The person who admits that it was their lack of skill (and not the "cheap tactic") that caused their demise will probably at least TRY to get better at the game. If you think everything ends after "K.O.", then you are a sad, stupid fuck indeed. Everything you've said so far just reeks of your overwhelming self-confidence. Eventually, you may end up being beaten repeatedly by "cheap" tactics, no matter what "underdog" characters or "stylish" tactics you use. Then you'll have to finally face up to the fact that it's the skill of the player, not who uses cheap stuff or not, that determines the better player. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 09:22 AM: "I wanna look good whenever I win. What's the problem?" Ofcourse, it bumps your ego up. Your a show off. Just like we want to win to do the same, bump our ego up. Your no different from everybody else on this forum. "Our argument is boring? Cheap players bore me even worse. And WTF does this have to do with RETARDED people saying that KOF is slow?? I just don't get it" Everything. Its a well known mind set that a lot of the people who play only the VS series arent known for using incredibly intricate strategies, mostly becuase there isnt much to be found in most of the VS series(no offense intended to those who like the games). My point is when you talk about winning with "style" or how boring "cheap" is you sound just like they do when there voicing there opinion on KOF or a reg SF game. "Abuse = repeating something over & over again." Deffinition of ABUSE: Use improperly, misuse. And yes i did look it up in a dictionary If its working against you than Im not misusing it. "Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound like chi..." Yojimbo is never right about anything. Anybody with half a brain knows that. I have respect for you(arguments or not), to think you would listen to anything he says i would lose that respect. Then again Chi was a pretty smart person, though i didnt agree with her. I thought you were a Chi fan anyways? quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Why?!? Abuse = repeating something over & over again. It doesn't matter if it actually hurts me or not. Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound like chi... [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).] [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 09:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Excuse me, but I don't remember saying at any point that Seth was a "god". I don't agree with s-kill just because he's s-kill. I agree with him because I find a lot of the stuff he says to be true, out of my own experiences. Get your unchecked rage under control, buddy. Just because someone agrees w/a moderator doesn't make them an ass-licking scrub. BTW, if I lose a fight, I don't blame it on anybody. I just look at the situation to see what I did wrong, and what I can do to avoid it in the future (ie, if going for that stylish-looking strategy that is so well thought out doesn't work, I try to find another. Easy). Don't assume you know everything about me, considering that you have never seen how I play or know how I think, you arrogant asshole. Arrogant asshole? Well now I'm telling ya something out of my own experiences: if you get so much upset about what someone could tell you on the Internet, probably it doesn't take a lot to get you in the right mood to lose any challenge. Learn more self-control & discipline, "buddy", it's for yer own good Oh so you don't follow Seth? Oh my, I'm impressed. Cause most people here at SRK.com seem to do quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: You apparently have a whole lot of pent-up anger and resentment towards Seth Killian. I would appreciate it if you kept it to yourself. I am not Seth, and I don't give a flying fuck what happened between you two in Domination 101 in the past. Just in case you're wondering, NOTHING happened between Seth & me in the past. Why, I don't even like Crapcom fighters in the 1st place so I only started posting here because of some flamewar I was having with one of yer fellow posters here. It's only that I don't like "Leaders of the Cult" types, that's all quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: BTW, I can kill your Mature/Billy team w/KOF 99 Kyo by himself. Like it makes a difference. You can beat amateurish little Rugal users who probably don't know shit about the game in the first place. Let's take someone with your "skill level", and place him in the seat of Omega Rugal. He uses some of the same "cheap" tactics as the aforementioned defeated one. And he kills you. Why? Because unlike the amateur, he can use these "cheap" skills better than the average player. He has better timing, better execution, he actually takes the time to watch what you are doing, whatever. What I'm trying to say is, saying you can beat a bad player who uses those "cheap" tactics says nothing about the tactic. It simply points out that the person using the tactic was less skilled that you are (assuming you have skills). You could kill my Mature/Billy team with Kyo? I DOUBT IT, but you can talk as much as you please (since it costs you no money anyways). Anyhow, more often than not only retarded cheapos who don't have any skill would use O. Rugal in '99 DM, that's right. O. Rugal shouldn't never have been made playable in the 1st place. Or do you think you'd beat *MY* O. Rugal?? Think again, you phase 2 scrub quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Make any argument you want to about using "underdog" characters. You can use the most obscure character in the world, and chances are whatever advantage that obscureness will give you is minimal if you are playing against a person of equal skill who is using a more effective character with a "cheap" strategy. Your sheer arrogance sickens me. Get it through your head: beating an amateur Rugal user w/Mature and Billy Kane does NOT make you the man. I assure you, a person of your equal skill level using the same tactics will do much better. Obviously you don't know shit about KOF. Otherwise you'd know that O. Rugal has a HUGE advantadge against Billy Kane (his fireballs & anti-air would hurt Billy whenever they touch his POLE). Plus his moves are much more over-prioritized than Billy's. So, my point is, beating O. Rugal players with Billy or Mature DOES take skill, the other way around doesn't. And your point is...?? quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: It's a learning experience, you little rat bastard. The person who says shit is "cheap" will never get any better and will always be the same little scrub unable to better himself. The person who admits that it was their lack of skill (and not the "cheap tactic") that caused their demise will probably at least TRY to get better at the game. If you think everything ends after "K.O.", then you are a sad, stupid fuck indeed. Everything you've said so far just reeks of your overwhelming self-confidence. Eventually, you may end up being beaten repeatedly by "cheap" tactics, no matter what "underdog" characters or "stylish" tactics you use. Then you'll have to finally face up to the fact that it's the skill of the player, not who uses cheap stuff or not, that determines the better player. I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be. Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're facing at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good thing indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 10:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Ofcourse, it bumps your ego up. Your a show off. Just like we want to win to do the same, bump our ego up. Your no different from everybody else on this forum. Yeah go on and call me a show off like most people at my local arcade. Hey sue me or something, how else am I gonna impress the chicks with? With my shitty job? I guess NOT quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Yojimbo is never right about anything. Anybody with half a brain knows that. I have respect for you(arguments or not), to think you would listen to anything he says i would lose that respect. Then again Chi was a pretty smart person, though i didnt agree with her. I thought you were a Chi fan anyways? Heh you and Yojimbo are just like Tom & Jerry or something (no offense intended). The scenario may change (this being Orochinagi.com, Madman's, KOF4ever, SRK.com etc) but still you'd fight each other to no end...And yeah, I'm a chi fan INDEED, I think she's one of the most intelligent people I've came across in my whole life...but still, she'd resort to demagogy in the hopes of winning an argument, pretty much like you're doing right now... Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:15:2001 10:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be. Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're facing at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good thing indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course. Now I see what you're saying. You're saying that the less skilled you are the cheaper you are. Well what I'm saying is there is no "CHEAP". (other than glitches and maybe infinities). There are "only levels of skill". Hearing "cheap" to me means cheating/breaking the laws of the game. Turtling is NOT cheating. Nor is overthrowing. These are just examples of things used to try to win. Methods of winning = strategy. Effective Strategy = A winning tactic. A winning tactic = A *blank* level of skill. Anything that helps you win adds to your level of skill. It has nothing to do with cheating. This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying: TURN OFF THAT DAMN LIGHT!! Posted by Sword_Saint on 01:15:2001 11:32 AM: Cheap really is only in the case when something is gamebreaking.Like a SRK that does 90% ALL the time. Not a super a normal special move. Something that reaks of "how the hell did they let that get thru". Only will i think SOMETHING is cheap. But people are "cheap". How simple those "ah dont givafuck" attitude people. WHo go all out on 5 year old. I mean damn a little kid who's never seen the game and you kill them in 3 seconds with your perfected Doom/Strider trap. All to fill some hitlerist powertrip. I remember a some friends of mine got together to play some games. Tekken 2 had been on home system for awhile and we had unlocked all the guys. Well one of my friends never played it before saw heiachi and thought he looked cool. Another friend shouted "fuck dat he got B-achi" and went to his "A" guy. We said dude he's never played tekken before, but my other friend didnt see the difference he just saw the char. He just saw some nameless opponent to be destroyed. I've seen this a few times working in a 'cade. Is winning really that important that you have to destroy someone who has never played the game. Thats 'cheap" to me or at least being a winstreak bitch "I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool." Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 12:32 PM: This was posted by someone from Singapore on KOFONLINE's forums. I know Singapore is a SNK driven area, i was suprised to see someone with this mentality from an area where SNK games rule...Hes a smart one. "I'm sick and tired of people saying things like "you use Joe as striker, you're so cheap!", "You play like a coward, always stay there and defend like a turtle, you're so cheap!", "you use seth as striker and you play turtle, you're so cheap", "you know nothing but only infinites and cheap infinite repetitive joe striker combos, you're so cheap!". I mean, come on guys, dun be a sore loser... people have their own strategies and styles of gameplay... There's no cheap players, same goes for strikers, playing styles and strategies, only sore losers... Sure those people use infinites and strikers like joe who assists you to do infinite combos, and sure those people play turtle... Why in the first place you lost to that guy/girl whom you claim that he/she is cheap? Are you overconfident? Are you too careless on your defense? Whatever it is, you LOST! Stop complaining and get over it! I've seen someone(an expert) who use Clark, King, Ralf and Joe as striker defeat as many as 30+ challengers(i was one of them ). But as soon as there's this expert who came and sit down beside that fella and challenged him, he lost, not once, not twice, but 3 times in a row! He used Kim, Benimaru, Takuma and Another Iori as striker. He was awesome! Why did he won? Did the Joe user let him win on purpose? Or did he not try to use his infinite combos? I dun think so... at the end of the day, it all comes down to who is more skillful, who has a better strategy, who's reaction is faster and who plays a better mind game... If you want a game with no infinites, no 100% combos, no different kinds of strategies, then go make your own game! If you're still standing your own ground that some strategies and techniques/tactics are cheap... find your own circle of friends who play like urself and make your own rules... pretty good idea huh? But you'll never improve! Great players dun go around saying others is cheap when they lose... They try all kinds of strategies and techniques, take up all kinds of challenges and try to defeat them, learn from their mistakes, corrects them, and trains himself to be invincible..." Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 12:43 PM: "Cheap" is a term that was created by people who have no real skills. Cheap is a synonym for cheating. This includes throwing, repeating the same attack, the list goes on and on. There is certain games that a person can cheat in such as a game of cards, or even on a test in school. But a video game is something that a person CANNOT cheat in. All you have is your controllers and buttons to influence the outcome of the game. All the rules of the game are electronically built in and CANNOT be compromised. Elements in the game such as throwing are part of the game, otherwise it wouldn't have been included. I immediately lose ALL respect for a player who believes in the term cheap and adheres to its irrational rules. I've encountered a lot of different situations involving throwing. Basically a large portion of the fighting game playing population has declared throwing to be "cheap." In arcades when a person throws another guy the person will usually apologize immediately and let the other person throw him back as an act of restitution. I've actually witnessed fist fights erupt from this irrational belief. I have a deep hate for people who do this because they take away from the fun of the game. Fortunately I've never been in one of these sad situations. I have never relied on throwing to win, although I would like to have it in my arsenal as an option if the situation called for it. One of my favorites is the term “turtle.” If a player has good defense and can block against dashing attacks, etc., some people will say they’re turtling! It’s really strange but I’ve noticed that people who use fast combo characters such as Psylocke, Cammy, etc. expect you to get hit with their dash in attacks, every single time. If you happen to avoid getting hit, they start to get frustrated and say you’re turtling. The second most frequent "cheap" complaint I've heard is: "Is that all you can do? Is that all you know? Can't you do anything else?" Basically if I engage in a strategy that the person cannot counter, then the person will start to complain that I keep doing the same thing. The only way for cheap to exist is if someone finds a way to play outside of what the programmers of the game intended. This includes gambit glitch from MVC2, invisible throw with guile from the old street fighter 2. Pressing your opponent’s start button to make them taunt is also another way. These actions are obviously cheating because they were never intended to be part of the game. Anything that the programmers meant to be in the game cannot be cheap, because that’s exactly how the programmers designed the game. The list of "cheap" goes on forever. ALL people who complain about their opponent cheating are just making excuses for losing. There are no exceptions to this rule. Nathan Summers Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 12:51 PM: For this discussion to be effective, we must define cheap. CHEAP=cheating. CHEAP refers to cheating only. It does not include: repetitive, turtle, pattern, and style. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 05:26 PM: "Cheap is a term that was created by people who have no real skills" Did you meet the guy who invented the trm? I don't think so, so stop assuming things. "Cheap is a synonym for cheating" Now what? Are you redefining the language? "In arcades when a person throws another guy the person will usually apologize immediately and let the other person throw him back as an act of restitution" If that was true, I would be hated (or punched) at my arcade. If you throw a couple of times it's not wrong (if you whiff a move at close range you will surely throw), if you do it all the time, that means you're playing a newbie. Now, if you're playing a newbie, why to use such a repetitive and crappy technique? Why not use a combo or a couple of special moves to make the other guy get more into playing? At the end, it's just a matter of choice. "expect you to get hit with their dash in attacks, every single time" If someone attacks you, and you have no better choice than blocking, then what's the problem with that? Turtling means staying in a corner doing a repetitive and somewhat safe move. Now, in KoF (MvsC2 is the last game I would bring in a "cheapness" discussion) you can throw fireballs and do jump straight up CD (sometimes the fireballs are not necessary). Now is this pattern unbeatable? The answer is "No" (in fact it's somewhat easy to beat). "ALL people who complain about their opponent cheating are just making excuses for losing. There are no exceptions to this rule." Now you're assuming something and stating it as an undeniable truth. I never seen someone losing and telling the winner he was a cheapo. It maybe a regional thing where no one gives a rat's ass abt what the other thinks, but most losers complain abt joysticks being broken (and sometimes it happens to be true) or just slam the joystick after loosing (which wacks the joystick). It's most likely to see a experienced player telling someone else that the one he beaten was cheap that the other way around. The Invincible Swordman said: "There are only levels of skill" That was what ImMature mentioned, the three phases. If your phase 2 technique works at your arcade, fine, but don't complain when you meet someone who's at phase 3. The bad thing is that if you feel your technique is good and don't try anything else, then your skill will be limited. Nobody expects Valle to win a tournament in Japan by using the same technique he used in the US (or at least that's what I hope). Posted by Shigure on 01:15:2001 05:28 PM: ..I like to play fighting games Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 06:28 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Arrogant asshole? Well now I'm telling ya something out of my own experiences: if you get so much upset about what someone could tell you on the Internet, probably it doesn't take a lot to get you in the right mood to lose any challenge. Learn more self-control & discipline, "buddy", it's for yer own good Oh so you don't follow Seth? Oh my, I'm impressed. Cause most people here at SRK.com seem to do Please shut up. You really don't know me as a person, so don't pretend that you can make such a judgement on my character. Yes, I did get upset because of what you said, but that really says nothing about my attitude when I'm playing. I'm all business in the arcade, and people who waste their time talking are usually the people who walk away from the machine. And as far as I can tell, not everyone here just blindly follows what Seth says. Get that impression out of your head, especially since most people don't have a whole lot of great things to say about him lately. quote: Just in case you're wondering, NOTHING happened between Seth & me in the past. Why, I don't even like Crapcom fighters in the 1st place so I only started posting here because of some flamewar I was having with one of yer fellow posters here. It's only that I don't like "Leaders of the Cult" types, that's all Tsk, tsk. Can't even keep flamewars under control. Sad. Honestly, though, if you hate Capcom fighters so much, then just go away. Go somewhere else where you can tout the KOF series as the greatest fighting game of all time. And no, I have nothing against KOF, I love those games. quote: You could kill my Mature/Billy team with Kyo? I DOUBT IT, but you can talk as much as you please (since it costs you no money anyways). Anyhow, more often than not only retarded cheapos who don't have any skill would use O. Rugal in '99 DM, that's right. O. Rugal shouldn't never have been made playable in the 1st place. Or do you think you'd beat *MY* O. Rugal?? Think again, you phase 2 scrub Look who's talking shit now. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you talk just as much as I do, and *like me*, you have no way to back up your "skills", so why don't you just STFU? Like I said, you make no example by beating retarded cheapos w/underdog characters. Try asking someone of equal skill to play you w/Omega Rugal, and see how well you do. Then if you win, you can come back and boast all you want. But until then, I'm not impressed by your big talk of "phases" and all of that stupid shit. Find another way to boost your ego, shithead. Most of what you are saying just sounds like whining over a boss character. Go play in the arcade if you don't like fighting Omega Rugal scrubs. quote: Obviously you don't know shit about KOF. Otherwise you'd know that O. Rugal has a HUGE advantadge against Billy Kane (his fireballs & anti-air would hurt Billy whenever they touch his POLE). Plus his moves are much more over-prioritized than Billy's. So, my point is, beating O. Rugal players with Billy or Mature DOES take skill, the other way around doesn't. And your point is...?? You obviously don't know how to read. I said beating a skill-less O.Rugal scrub with Billy Kane is not impressive. Yes, O.Rugal has insane priority, and has a huge basic advantage over Billy. But you can only apply such things on the basis that the players behind the characters are of EQUAL SKILL. Beating a scrub simply means that the player has no skill. It says nothing about the character used. My point is, you make NO POINT by saying you beat O.Rugal scrubs with underdogs. Go play an EQUALLY SKILLED person who uses Omega Rugal in the same way, and then come back and say you beat him. Then I might be willing to take you seriously. Until then, all of your accusations of "scrub" directed towards me will simply be acknowledged as the pointless name-calling that it is. quote: I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be. Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're facing at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good thing indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course Basically, all I've seen you do is yell about how great KOF is and how you are the master of KOF 98' because you can beat O.Rugal. Big whoop. So you think you can read what type of opponent you are about to face because he uses "cheap" tactics. This says nothing at all about the existence of cheapness. You simply know about a type of tactic and you can override it. Not to mention most people you face who use this tactic are not all that good in the first place. Take person with equal skill and place in place of said inexperienced person, and "cheap tactics" become "game-winning tactics". Oh God, you are just so stupid. You speak as if you HAVE to believe in "cheapness" in order to be any good at all. In other words, if I don't believe in cheap tactics, I can't be any good because I can't ANTICIPATE what my opponent will be like, even though I've been watching his matches against other players and I've already figured out a semi-strategy I can use to start off, and see how the fight flows from there. You must not play against many good players if you can "read" them so well. I'd like to see you anticipate how a person in my arcade plays at KOF, and then watch as you get completely suprised by how quickly they can adapt to different strategies and how they aren't as predictable as you thought they were. Come back when you have something relevant to say, instead of blowing your own horn. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 07:42 PM: "And as far as I can tell, not everyone here just blindly follows what Seth says. Get that impression out of your head, especially since most people don't have a whole lot of great things to say about him lately." Most people quote him and praise him A LOT. And, to be sincere, after reading that crap he wrote abt balance in games, I can't believe how anyone can follow him. Many posters licked his ass (as well as Valle's one) when they said one of hose magical "you are a scrub" phrase that automatically made him right and the other guy wrong. Why am I bothering with a fight is not mine? Gee, I'm bored. "Not to mention most people you face who use this tactic are not all that good in the first place" If you need to use an overpowered boss to have a chnce of winning (whom btw, have easy to do specials) then you have a pityfull skill. "if I don't believe in cheap tactics, I can't be any good" If you use only one pattern that worked so far, then you're obviously loosing the chance to learn something new. This will make your game to be based on that single pattern (or two patterns top). Now when your pattern is discovered and solved, you'll have nothing to fight with. So, you think a seemingly working small pattern is all you need? Fine, but don't cry when you get your ass handed. Posted by Latinofighter on 01:15:2001 07:42 PM: It seems that "cheap" only exist when you win. you won't hear how cheap someone is if they lose. Another thing is the same moves/tactics one person does, anybody can do. example traps in mvc2 let's say joe schmoe does a trap with the same characters i'm using...y can't i do the same? there is nothing players can do that makes the game change especially for them. all you can do is do the motion for the moves, the game decides if it connects or not. glitches are totally different. when something happens that was never meant to happen...say a haduken does 100 damage points as opposed to it's usual 15, there is something wrong with that...but that's usually the games's fault. however if you know how do a glitch and use it, then that's different too. people will always bitch about cheap. people hate turtles cause waiting for the right time to strike is cheap...um...wtf? i wanna know how blocking can be considered cheap. Please explain how defending yourself is cheap? I'll never understand it. Really it's all about who wants to stay on the game longer, who wants it more, and what your willing to do to win. I hope you bring your "A" game, cause I'm bringing the A team. And I pity the fool that underestimates me. [This message has been edited by Latinofighter (edited 01-15-2001).] Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 09:33 PM: Isn't it weird how the top handfull of people at tournaments don't complain about cheap. And how the people who have absolutely no chance at being top handfull at a regional tournament believe in the term cheap as if its their religion? I wonder why? I have a challenge for all of you people who believe in the word cheap. Show me someone who has the skill to give the top 10 players in golf land some serious competition and also believes in the word cheap. I guaranee you won't find one. You know why? Because they don't blame the game's inherent design when they lose. They blame themselves. That's precisely why they are so DAMN good at the game. They blamed their mistakes, and improved. If they blamed the game, or their opponent's cheap style, they would never improve. IMPORTANT: Some people joke around with the word cheap, but don't really believe in it. There's a difference between someone who uses it for humor, and a true disciple of cheap, more commonly known as a scrub. Posted by ghgh on 01:15:2001 09:39 PM: It's amazing how many different opinions are out there about "cheap" - especially when there's only one fact. I didn't follow the entire Domination101 thread about cheap, but I think it basically said that nothing is cheap. If that was the case, I have to disagree. Keep reading. For all of you who have an 'anything goes' attitude on the games, ask tournament organizers why they do not allow Akuma to be played in Super Turbo tournaments. In fact, I'm asking it right now. Why isn't Akuma allowed to be played in tournament play in ST?? Do you want the long answer or the short answer? (By the way, the short answer is - you guessed it - 'cause he's CHEAP). For those of you who don't know much about this, Akuma in ST has a double-air fireball, almost twice as fast as other characters (literally), and has virtually no dizzy - among other things! He is not a glitch. Programmers put him in the game on purpose. "Ok, ok- but, if your opponent chooses Akuma, you can choose Akuma too! No advantage, right?" Right! No advantage- and let's go ahead and throw diversity right outta the window. Now, would that be any fun? Want another example? How about the different "isms" in SFA3? In a tournament, why can't I use the "ism" of my choice? It's in the game, right? Well... (see above) Let me just say that at the local arcades, I win a lot more games than I lose. I personally do NOT call anyone cheap. But, I know when I'm being "cheap". For instance, rolling around the screen with Blanka while playing a poor jabronee who barely knows how to throw a fireball. This guy thinks I'm being cheap! As far as he knows, all I can do is the rolling attack - and as we all know, there's NO WAY to win against Blanka's rolling attack! He's thinking, "if you stop that stupid rolling thing, I'd be on you in a heartbeat and 'KO' you!" On the otherhand, I think I'm just being efficient. Well, instead of being "efficient", how about I change it up for the poor fella? What's it going to hurt me to throw a couple of different looks at him? Maybe if I'm feeling good, I'll make it a "close" match! Most of you "efficient" people probably do end up the last one of the machine - and the ONLY one on the machine too! That's probably because others find it repetitious, boring, and useless to play against you. They're not learning anything and it's not fun for them. Ultimately, it's not fun for you. As I've mentioned before, many players have called me "cheap" in my day. You guys wanna know how to really impress them and ultimately get respect? Take the Blanka rolling attack situation for example. Your opponent's thinking, "if you stop that stupid rolling thing, I'd be on you in a heartbeat and 'KO' you!". Tell them (respectfully) that you will not rolling-attack them anymore- BUT, that you promise to continue winning. In fact, ask them if they want to wager (maybe a couple of tokens) that you will beat them without being "cheap". And go through with it - beat them several times without using whatever they deem as "cheap"- all the while being respectful. The end result will be good. Never know, you may end up with somewhat of a disciple! On the otherhand, if you cannot beat them without your "cheap" pattern or whatever, then they were probably right! You're a cheap player - who cannot win by any other means. Oh well- atleast you win. The bottom line is this - if it smells like "cheap" and it looks like "cheap"... well, you know. Like I initially said, it's all relative to the people you play and your area. You good players out there, change it up for the new dudes- when you play someone on your own level, be as "cheap" as you want. Is that so hard? The thing is that there IS something called "cheap". Sometimes it's gameplay, sometimes it's character, sometimes it's a glitch or infinite, and sometimes it's just because people think so. It exists. Any questions? ... Good. Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:15:2001 09:44 PM: who cares about cheapness. i know i dont and i know a lot of other people dont either. plus, most of us can get around this so called "cheapness". its called playing not complaining. My name is Flare and this is my crew. We kick ass and you know we do. Posted by Jinmaster on 01:15:2001 09:59 PM: O. Ryoga and Immature, I thought we covered this already. I warned you that people here do not use the word "cheapness" the way you guys do. The people here view your phase 2 cheapness as the realm of scrubdom. You just call it being cheap. When you deal with people here, they assume certain things: 1) Anything that is really cheap should be banned from tournaments. That means it has to be quantifiable and not subjective in any way in order to be banned. 2) The word cheap is usually used by peopple who can't beat certain tactics as a label for people who win. It is rarely used to describe someone who loses all the time. Remember the confusion we had about how a loser could be cheap? I encourage everyone to look back a few pages and find the "DUMB SNK LEMMINGS" thread. Pages 8-10 contain where we finally reached an understanding. The people you are arguing with are not talking about the same thing as you guys. -Micah [This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 01-15-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 10:21 PM: Oh my!!! Wyldfyre: If you don't care, why do you post? No one here said there are not ways around it. If you don't get that, then you don't worth the time. Jin: ghgh seems to be talking abt cheapness, right? In fact I see most people here in phase 2 with some exceptions (I can't talk for ImMature). 1) Only glitches, infinites and bosses (not bosses like Bison in SF2 nor any ratio 3 or 4 in CvsS) should be banned from tournaments. 2) I agree, it seems that in your area more losers complain abt cheapness than winners. Here, it's exactly the opposite (not that they say it in their faces, but if you listen to the comments after the game you'll see they do). Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:15:2001 11:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Oh my!!! Wyldfyre: If you don't care, why do you post? No one here said there are not ways around it. If you don't get that, then you don't worth the time. Jin: ghgh seems to be talking abt cheapness, right? In fact I see most people here in phase 2 with some exceptions (I can't talk for ImMature). 1) Only glitches, infinites and bosses (not bosses like Bison in SF2 nor any ratio 3 or 4 in CvsS) should be banned from tournaments. 2) I agree, it seems that in your area more losers complain abt cheapness than winners. Here, it's exactly the opposite (not that they say it in their faces, but if you listen to the comments after the game you'll see they do). shut the fuck up! i totally agree with you. in fact i said the exact same shit. but do you know how many times this topic has popped up? millions. im tired of this shit. so if im not worth the time then why did you reply to me. My name is Flare and this is my crew. We kick ass and you know we do. Posted by Jinmaster on 01:15:2001 11:21 PM: O.Ryoga, Ghgh is complaining about losing. I don't think he is talking about cheapness in your terms. He does hint toward "that which is repetitive". The difference between people who have the difintion of cheap as this vs people who think of it the way I do, is that being repetitive in and of itself is not what constitutes being cheap in Immature/your view. You guys are talking about repetitive patterns that aveaerge players rely on in order to win, think they are good, and don't understand the game in depth. Cheapness in this case I beleive is whining about losing to strategies they can't beat. They call the game shitty, and they offend the winners by saying that they used no skill. As we all know, it takes no skill to lose. Saying that "had I played cheap like you, I'd win too" is false and degrading. I hope you see the cultural differnce between the definitions of chapenss in the dumb snk lemmings thread pages 8-9-10. -Micah Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:15:2001 11:50 PM: *SIGH* What a nice little shit storm that I have stumbled into. Hmmmmmmm, cheap vs. there is no such thing....... I wonder. Let's see, throwing too much is cheap...... turtling is cheap....... constant patterns is cheap...... alot of stuff in this thread is considered to be cheap. So, let me get this straight, that is cheap, but showing off is'nt. Let's just say that i'm playing against somebody, and he pulls off this amazing, hard, never in a million years combo, and it kills me right off the bat. It causes everybody in the arcade on a Saturday night to go quiet. It is the best looking thing I have ever seen on this game, and the ability of skill to do it is literally "amazing", not to mention the fact that my opponent got it off in the middle of actual combat, not in practice mode. Does this make it cheap? Now, the skill to do it is phenomenal, but it KILLED me. I have no chance of a comeback, why, cause i'm dead. So I ask again, is this cheap? Personally, i'd rather be killed buy the guy who does nothing but backwards triangle jumps into the corner with a uppercut/fireball character. The person who does nothing but sweeps two-in-oned into fireballs. Or the guy, who throws you every chance he get's. So when I lose, I know that it is because of me, not some flashy combo that can only be done by two people (the guy who did it and GOD himself). Don't get me wrong, i'm not putting down showing off, I love to do it also. But what people got to realize, is that there is no code of honor, it's just a game. The word honor should'nt even be applied to a game, cause there is none. There are times that a person can show off, but if it comes down to me killing the guy with a throw, or a hard to do super combo, i'd pick the throw. When I play somebody, I want a skilled player, not a combo/show off exhebitionist. All the combos and flashy manuevers mean SHIT when a person loses. IMO, there is no such thing as cheap (except for glitches, those do not apply to what I just said). But that is just my opinion. Cheapness is pretty much like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder. http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 03:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: If you use only one pattern that worked so far, then you're obviously loosing the chance to learn something new. This will make your game to be based on that single pattern (or two patterns top). Now when your pattern is discovered and solved, you'll have nothing to fight with. So, you think a seemingly working small pattern is all you need? Fine, but don't cry when you get your ass handed. I don't remember saying at any point that you should rely on one pattern to win. Go back and read my posts. NEVER EVER DID I SAY THAT YOU SHOULD PICK ONE PATTERN AND STICK TO IT. Don't spew shit that you don't know just because you want to support your little friend ImMature. If your game revolves around picking one single strategy and using it until it fails you, then you obviously don't know how to play. I use a different strat depending on the circumstances (Cable/Cyclops for bitches who like to try rushdowns, Hayato for people who jump all over the place w/attacks trying to keep me down, etc.). I try to adapt to the circumstances of the match. In no way do I just start bitching when I lose and call the other player "cheap". Basically, what you just said has nothing to do with what you quoted me on. I was asking ImMature if he really thought that you had to believe in "cheap tactics" in order to gauge what your opponent will do in a match (which is apparently what he believes, the fuckwit). You went off into an entirely different idea that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Moron. Say something relevant, why don't you? http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 03:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Please shut up. You really don't know me as a person, so don't pretend that you can make such a judgement on my character. Yes, I did get upset because of what you said, but that really says nothing about my attitude when I'm playing. Well it's true that I don't know you in Real Life (what a pity, uh?) but still, although I may be wrong, by all the crap I've read from you I can tell you this much: you (using O. Rugal) would probably get your ass kicked badly by ANYONE here (using Arthur from Ghost 'n' Goblins, Mugen anyone?). Wanna know why? Cause it'd only take from him to smirk at you at the beginning of the match to make you start losing all your cool. I can tell you this, it's DEFINITELY not very hard to play mind games with you, you're even unable to realize when you're being played with quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Tsk, tsk. Can't even keep flamewars under control. Sad. Sad? Why, flamewars are a LOT of fun. BTW, you should meet the guy I was flaming back then, at least I can tell you he's smart enough not to get HYSTERICAL at someone else on the Internet. Pretty much unlike yourself buddy, someone go there and bitch-slap ya to make you calm down at once quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Look who's talking shit now. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you talk just as much as I do, and *like me*, you have no way to back up your "skills", so why don't you just STFU? Like I said, you make no example by beating retarded cheapos w/underdog characters. Try asking someone of equal skill to play you w/Omega Rugal, and see how well you do. Then if you win, you can come back and boast all you want. But until then, I'm not impressed by your big talk of "phases" and all of that stupid shit. Find another way to boost your ego, shithead. Most of what you are saying just sounds like whining over a boss character. Go play in the arcade if you don't like fighting Omega Rugal scrubs. [/B][/QUOTE] For your information, one of the arcades here does have KOF'99 DM, haven't you ever seen those machines? They're like DCs stuffed inside normal arcade cabinets, so I play against O. Rugal types in said arcade (since I don't even own a DC). As soon as I play a O. Rugal type with an equal amount of skill I'll let you know; it's not my fault that this char's sooo scrub-friendly, now it is? quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: My point is, you make NO POINT by saying you beat O.Rugal scrubs with underdogs. Go play an EQUALLY SKILLED person who uses Omega Rugal in the same way, and then come back and say you beat him. Then I might be willing to take you seriously. Until then, all of your accusations of "scrub" directed towards me will simply be acknowledged as the pointless name-calling that it is. Well, my retarded friend, just don't tell me you didn't see this coming. Forget about me for a moment and go read the US vs Japan results at SF3 3rd Strike. Did that Japanese guy (forgot his name) used Q? Yes. Is Q an underdog? Yes. Did he won? Yes. Were his opponents advanced players as well? Yes again. Ok now go and re-read what I said about using underdogs, maybe (and I mean MAYBE) you'll get it this time quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Oh God, you are just so stupid. You speak as if you HAVE to believe in "cheapness" in order to be any good at all. In other words, if I don't believe in cheap tactics, I can't be any good because I can't ANTICIPATE what my opponent will be like, even though I've been watching his matches against other players and I've already figured out a semi-strategy I can use to start off, and see how the fight flows from there. You must not play against many good players if you can "read" them so well. I'd like to see you anticipate how a person in my arcade plays at KOF, and then watch as you get completely suprised by how quickly they can adapt to different strategies and how they aren't as predictable as you thought they were. Oh my fault then. I should have imagined that all that stuff was waaaay to complex for you to understand. What I was trying to say is that, although I don't know how your mind works (IF it works at all, that's it), normal human beings need to classify past experiences in order to be able to anticipate what MOST LIKELY would happen in each case (cause we're not talking about clarvoyants here, y'know, it's a matter of probability). 'Cheap' (or you may call it as you please instead) is JUST ANOTHER CATEGORY, not the only one. Look, I think all this will be just impossible for you to understand anyways so I won't bother, but try to remember: if your memory is unable to classify things into categories (whichever they are) then you'll be unable to anticipate ANYTHING. I never said you hafta believe in cheapness to anticipate what your opponent will do, but it helps (at least to me) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Come back when you have something relevant to say, instead of blowing your own horn. Ok Breasts of Fire, and almost the same here, come back when you've taken your medication Posted by Bezerka on 01:16:2001 03:55 AM: Its cheap when u get to play street fighter for under 10 cents a game. But seriouly there is no cheap playing, just really, really good statergy. Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 04:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: I was asking ImMature if he really thought that you had to believe in "cheap tactics" in order to gauge what your opponent will do in a match (which is apparently what he believes, the fuckwit). NooOooOoo you shithead, you got it wrong since it was waaaay too complex for someone like you to understand in a millon years. Read my post above, will ya? Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 04:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster: Cheapness in this case I beleive is whining about losing to strategies they can't beat. They call the game shitty, and they offend the winners by saying that they used no skill. As we all know, it takes no skill to lose. Saying that "had I played cheap like you, I'd win too" is false and degrading. I hope you see the cultural differnce between the definitions of chapenss in the dumb snk lemmings thread pages 8-9-10. Thank you man, I see you've made the effort to overcome the cultural difference and to figure out what we were talking about. You have earned my respect for that and I humbly apologize for having called you close-minded in the past. People like you make this forum worth visiting, despite of the mindless 14 years old flamers reigning supreme here most of the time, I can tell you that... Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 04:35 AM: Wow, you came back. For a moment I thought Ryoga was gonna have to fight your battles from now on. Good for you. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Well it's true that I don't know you in Real Life (what a pity, uh?) but still, although I may be wrong, by all the crap I've read from you I can tell you this much: you (using O. Rugal) would probably get your ass kicked badly by ANYONE here (using Arthur from Ghost 'n' Goblins, Mugen anyone?). Wanna know why? Cause it'd only take from him to smirk at you at the beginning of the match to make you start losing all your cool. I can tell you this, it's DEFINITELY not very hard to play mind games with you, you're even unable to realize when you're being played with BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE, FUNNIEST PIECE OF SHIT THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN YOU POST!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! You REALLY think you've been playing mind games with me? You obviously haven't seen me post before this forum. Name-calling and picking on people in the forums is my favorite pasttime. You really thought you had me JUST because I called you an arrogant asshole and everything else? You are just SO funny! I talk more shit and play more mind games in the arcade w/people than anyone else I know personally! SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU COCK-SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!! quote: Sad? Why, flamewars are a LOT of fun. BTW, you should meet the guy I was flaming back then, at least I can tell you he's smart enough not to get HYSTERICAL at someone else on the Internet. Pretty much unlike yourself buddy, someone go there and bitch-slap ya to make you calm down at once You are really unperceptive, aren't you? You haven't seen me get hysterical yet, biatch. Go to General Discussion and check out the thread of War, Flames, and Low Blows. Then you'll see some insanity. In case you didn't know, I'm still laughing my ass off at your complete stupidity. Just wanted to remind you. quote: For your information, one of the arcades here does have KOF'99 DM, haven't you ever seen those machines? They're like DCs stuffed inside normal arcade cabinets, so I play against O. Rugal types in said arcade (since I don't even own a DC). As soon as I play a O. Rugal type with an equal amount of skill I'll let you know; it's not my fault that this char's sooo scrub-friendly, now it is? That's about the only interesting thing you've said this whole time. Lemme take a time out from laughing *gasp, gasp*. A DC inside of an arcade cabinet? Interesting. Why wait? Just go grab one of your friends who you think is actually any good, and ask him to play O.Rugal against you seriously...and see who wins. quote: Well, my retarded friend, just don't tell me you didn't see this coming. Forget about me for a moment and go read the US vs Japan results at SF3 3rd Strike. Did that Japanese guy (forgot his name) used Q? Yes. Is Q an underdog? Yes. Did he won? Yes. Were his opponents advanced players as well? Yes again. Ok now go and re-read what I said about using underdogs, maybe (and I mean MAYBE) you'll get it this time Please stop for a second so I can breathe. So ONE GUY from Japan wins a SF3 tournament with Q (I'm not suprised, I think Q is pretty damn good), and somehow this makes a statement about YOU using underdog characters in KOF (a completely different game). And believe me, I understand what you meant (fighting a character you aren't used to playing against can be tough, since you don't know what might be coming). However, when playing against a person of equal skill, such advantages are usually short-lived, as a good player will observe how you play and figure you out eventually. You obviously don't realize this, as you are too busy dominating scrubs (or are you just full of shit? Who knows). I'd say the guy in Japan was either extremely lucky, or the other players were just too dumbfounded to know what to do. quote: Oh my fault then. I should have imagined that all that stuff was waaaay to complex for you to understand. What I was trying to say is that, although I don't know how your mind works (IF it works at all, that's it), normal human beings need to classify past experiences in order to be able to anticipate what MOST LIKELY would happen in each case (cause we're not talking about clarvoyants here, y'know, it's a matter of probability). 'Cheap' (or you may call it as you please instead) is JUST ANOTHER CATEGORY, not the only one. Look, I think all this will be just impossible for you to understand anyways so I won't bother, but try to remember: if your memory is unable to classify things into categories (whichever they are) then you'll be unable to anticipate ANYTHING. I never said you hafta believe in cheapness to anticipate what your opponent will do, but it helps (at least to me) Hey, whatever works for you. If it helps to use a word with such a strong stigma attached to it to help you remember, well, more power to ya. Just be clearer next time on what you fucking mean. Oh, and BTW, clarification doesn't require meaningless insulting of intelligence just because you speak in such a cryptic dialect. Most people in here would agree that you weren't really being all that clear, and the concept itself is not complicated at all (just like you). Clarification by itself works just fine. I don't have a problem with remembering what types of tactics I have encountered in the past, I just find it more efficient to give them names that actually refer to what they are like, since "cheap" can be such a vague classification. Wow, we really don't differ that much at all in how we think, eh shit-for-brains? quote: Ok Breasts of Fire, and almost the same here, come back when you've taken your medication And thus, the immature one rides off into the sunset, unaware that he has just made a complete ass of himself and belittled his intelligence by throwing much more shit rather than just saying what he meant to say. And while his eyes are focused on peering directly into the sun, he notices not the great BEAST OF FIRE that has snuck up behind him. Blissfully unaware, he completely ignores the handful of intestines sitting in his lap that were just excavated from his worthless gut by the Beast's flaming sword. quote: NooOooOoo you shithead, you got it wrong since it was waaaay too complex for someone like you to understand in a millon years. Read my post above, will ya? Hey! I thought I dealt with you already back there!! *cuts immature's head off and barbecues him and feeds him to pack of coyotes* The End. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Raule on 01:16:2001 04:42 AM: Cheapness, there is none, abusive tactics, yes there is some. But nothing guarntees a win except 2 things. Infinites, and game breaking glitches. Infinites take skill, and can be annoying but are not cheap. Game breaking glitches are annoying, don't take much skill, but are a little tiny cheap, but really aren't, but its abusive, TO THE EXTREME!!!!! But its capcoms fault for not taking out bugs. http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/ridin_the_nightrain.gif Akuma:ME SUIT! SHUN GOKU SATSU! Evil Ryu: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Raging Demon! Posted by Shishio-sama on 01:16:2001 05:02 AM: Allow me to tell you what is cheap.Honestly I feel that infinites are demeaning.Once you are hit by the first hit all the person has to do is follow some routine of button pressing and like magic you are dead,no chance of escape.That is unfair,unlike every other technique there is a chance of escape or there is only so long a player may repeat the combination,example Alpha 3 v-ism and even that can be break the rules.This is also cheap when I go to play someone on the machine,the smell like they have not left the arcade to shower since Street Fighter one.That is cheap! All this other crap in trivial,sure AHVB is nasty,SO do your best to avoid it or play Cable and counter it.Shin Akuma is not an issue because he is not in any arcade version,except SS2T and he is banned from tourney play.Also chip damage sucks but can be avoided or countered.From what I have seen listed all these gripes extend from MvC2.Now if you see all these tactics that make the game not fun to play,win or lose,then why play?Worse yet what praise the game?The true answer is,the game in question,because it allows these tactics to be abused,is a very poor game. "Strength and Honor" Maximus Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 05:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Wow, you came back. For a moment I thought Ryoga was gonna have to fight your battles from now on. Good for you. And what did make you think so? That's what YOU'd do perhaps? quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE, FUNNIEST PIECE OF SHIT THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN YOU POST!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! You REALLY think you've been playing mind games with me? You obviously haven't seen me post before this forum. Name-calling and picking on people in the forums is my favorite pasttime. You really thought you had me JUST because I called you an arrogant asshole and everything else? You are just SO funny! I talk more shit and play more mind games in the arcade w/people than anyone else I know personally! SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU COCK-SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!! Ok if you say so. BTW you STILL sound hysterical. And really upset, just like you got at my 1st post, SUCKA quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: A DC inside of an arcade cabinet? Interesting. Never seen one of those?!? Really? Where have you been...institutionalized?? quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Please stop for a second so I can breathe. So ONE GUY from Japan wins a SF3 tournament with Q (I'm not suprised, I think Q is pretty damn good), and somehow this makes a statement about YOU using underdog characters in KOF (a completely different game). And believe me, I understand what you meant (fighting a character you aren't used to playing against can be tough, since you don't know what might be coming). However, when playing against a person of equal skill, such advantages are usually short-lived, as a good player will observe how you play and figure you out eventually. You obviously don't realize this, as you are too busy dominating scrubs (or are you just full of shit? Who knows). I'd say the guy in Japan was either extremely lucky, or the other players were just too dumbfounded to know what to do. Yes, yes OF COURSE. Either the Jap was the luckiest guy ever (he won 5/5 if I remember correctly) or his opponents were just dumb. I wonder why you ain't in the US team then, you'll probably do much, MUCH better, my dear Breasts of Fire (nice nick BTW) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Wow, we really don't differ that much at all in how we think, eh shit-for-brains? Great but did you actually got what I said or are you just pretending? I just wanna make sure, you fuckwit quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: And thus, the immature one rides off into the sunset, (rest of your dirty, wet fantasies about me skipped because of stupidity) Hey I like that phrase. Just call me El Zorro cause I'm more ARROGANT than Vega & Laurence Blood put together. I'm even gonna start a thread titled "ImMature teaches Agorrance" in the hopes of getting some of you people to EVENTUALLY become as arrogant as I am right now. Oh boy, I'm laughing my head off since yesterday every time I recall your reaction then... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: The End. The End? Sheah right, sure. Did I mention that the flamewar that brought me here lasted a month? It's NOT over yet, I'm having sooo much fun Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 07:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: The End? Sheah right, sure. Did I mention that the flamewar that brought me here lasted a month? It's NOT over yet, I'm having sooo much fun No my friend. It really is The End. It is obvious that you have nothing intelligent left to say, and I'm not gonna waste my time having a flamewar with you, considering that it has nothing to do with the topic discussed in past posts. List of stupidities in your most recent response: Saying that I still sound "upset". Say anything you want, but I'm laughing on this end and I know it. What your opinion is on that subject doesn't concern me at all. BTW, did you get rid of all the big smiles in that section of my post because you thought it would debunk your statement that I was still upset? Or do they just annoy you? Just checking. Also, I never said the opponents in the tournament were "dumb", per se. I meant that they may have been caught off-guard by the "underdog character" Q (since you are such a supporter of underdogs). It happens. And like I said, that has nothing to do with you and KOF. I'm sure if you go to a Japanese KOF tourney and enter w/your Mature/Billy team, your name probably won't be in the top tier. Also, at what point did I say I was better? Never. You need to go back and read again, wiseguy. BTW, your play of words on my screen name is so unoriginal it's not even funny (wait, it is funny, cuz I'm laughing my ass off at how stupid you are). Many have done it before you have, and they did it better. Although I suspect you may have done that because you can't read, so just in case, the name's BEAST OF FIRE. Dumbass. In case you didn't notice, I got what you said. In fact, I knew that long before there was a KOF for you to play, numbnuts. Basically, you aren't saying anything all that new or revolutionary, so why don't you just put a cork in it, shithead. OK, maybe I did carry it on a little longer. This time it truly is The End. If for any other reason, it's The End because I disemboweled you and cut your head off in my previous post. Are you a ghost or something? Maybe I should get an exorcist. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 12:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: No my friend. It really is The End. It is obvious that you have nothing intelligent left to say, and I'm not gonna waste my time having a flamewar with you, considering that it has nothing to do with the topic discussed in past posts. Oh well although neither you or me probably have nothing intelligent left to say, think about it: that fact HASN'T STOPED NONE OF US BEFORE. So then again, why The End? I thought you said you were having as much fun as myself... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Saying that I still sound "upset". Say anything you want, but I'm laughing on this end and I know it. What your opinion is on that subject doesn't concern me at all. Say, you apparently started laughing since I (did have to) told ya I was playing with you all this time. Your other replies to me don't give anyone the impression you were having such a good time at all. Oh well, if you don't wanna admit when you're outsmarted I can understand it (cause it sure happens to you on a regular basis anyways) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: BTW, did you get rid of all the big smiles in that section of my post because you thought it would debunk your statement that I was still upset? Or do they just annoy you? Just checking. Nope I just had to copy & paste that part of yer post. The smiles apparently didn't make it to the Windows clipboard (is this supposed to be relevant, my retarded friend?) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Also, I never said the opponents in the tournament were "dumb", per se. I meant that they may have been caught off-guard by the "underdog character" Q (since you are such a supporter of underdogs). It happens. And like I said, that has nothing to do with you and KOF. I'm sure if you go to a Japanese KOF tourney and enter w/your Mature/Billy team, your name probably won't be in the top tier. Also, at what point did I say I was better? Never. You need to go back and read again, wiseguy. Me and KOF? I thought we were talking about the advantadges of using underdogs instead of top-tiers, me beating O. Rugal players with Billy was only an example of that (wow I'd say that deep down you sound IMPRESSED or something. You keep bringing it up) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: BTW, your play of words on my screen name is so unoriginal it's not even funny (wait, it is funny, cuz I'm laughing my ass off at how stupid you are). Many have done it before you have, and they did it better. Although I suspect you may have done that because you can't read, so just in case, the name's BEAST OF FIRE. Dumbass. Ok excuse my lack of originality then. After all, we're only in the 1st day of our future flamewar and I tend to get much more wittier after the 1st week. You'll see. Anyways Breasts of Fire seems a great aleas for you, being a sluttish Drag Queen and all that. It sure attracts lotsa joes to your butt quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: OK, maybe I did carry it on a little longer. This time it truly is The End. If for any other reason, it's The End because I disemboweled you and cut your head off in my previous post. Are you a ghost or something? Maybe I should get an exorcist. No I just survived that easily. Just like the Trickster god Coyote, the one your little mythological reference was based on. According to the Native Americans eventually he'll outlive the rest of the things on Earth. Just like me, little fatherfucker Posted by Trent425 on 01:16:2001 03:38 PM: When i play someone in MvC2, i'm a cheap ass. If you move, i'll AHVB the crap out of you. I'll trap you, i'll throw you, and you know what? im a cheap ass. i admit it. And thats the difference, i admit it. All you people saying "cheapness doesnt exist" are using it as an excuse to justify your gameplay, you know you're cheap... just say it. I personally dont care what the hell you do against me... its part of the game, i'll deal with it. If you're doing some cheap tactic i've never seen before and cant get around, hey... all the better, i love the challenge. It'll just make me better. The only fact is... cheapness is part of the game, if you cant deal with it, dont play. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by ASSMASTERX: Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw. The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS. What the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL LIKE FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY. PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS! I guess you dug her out of her grave to do all this huh? You are a sick man! Get a clue! Haters hate on! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by YOUHEARDME: Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom, they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them and making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according to the way you like. 4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I watched them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take that proof over your stupidity. Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my mom gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all the money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth, LOL. HA HA HA HA HA ... keep hating dumb bitch! How many tourny's have you been in or gone to and where? Hater's keep on hating! By the way My moms and dad are dead so if your mother is pimping them she must be a sick whore! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by Crusader: O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a scrub to make himself feel better. Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle, do you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get around throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days, or don't play the game. No No No... you got it all wrong Crusaider! Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA ROTLMAO! Fucking haters keep on hating! Hate on Brotha Hate on! P. S. the hating thing wasn't to you Crus! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: And one thing is playing for the fun, and other thing is competition (where your aim is to win). Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time! Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 11:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Oh well although neither you or me probably have nothing intelligent left to say, think about it: that fact HASN'T STOPED NONE OF US BEFORE. So then again, why The End? I thought you said you were having as much fun as myself... I figured out that I could have just as much fun laughing at most of the stupidity that you post in other topics.....so why waste my energy in this topic (since it is now quite obviously dead)? If you really wanna flame me and cuss at me (since you are so obviously starved for attention), you're gonna have to wait until we get into an argument over another topic, because I simply don't have the time to waste throwing meaningless insults back and forth. I gotta have something to really argue over. quote: Say, you apparently started laughing since I (did have to) told ya I was playing with you all this time. Your other replies to me don't give anyone the impression you were having such a good time at all. Oh well, if you don't wanna admit when you're outsmarted I can understand it (cause it sure happens to you on a regular basis anyways) It's all really a matter of perspective. From your perspective, you were playing with me (my, my, aren't you so smart), whereas from my perspective, you were really just wasting your breath. You see, unlike you, I don't believe that it takes real intelligence to call someone names (which seems to be your favorite pasttime). So I don't think you can really say you "outsmarted" me when all you've done is cuss repeatedly and come up with fairly lame insults. BTW, I doubt you know what other people think of my replies, since no one else has really commented on them, and furthermore, I've already forgotten about those. Why so eager to cling to the past? Are you afraid the future won't turn out the same way? You really don't have anything better to do with your spare time, so you desperately want to keep throwing poor insults at me? Truly, that is sad (and I mean it). quote: Nope I just had to copy & paste that part of yer post. The smiles apparently didn't make it to the Windows clipboard (is this supposed to be relevant, my retarded friend?) Retarded?....Really, is that the best you can do? I thought you were supposed to be so smart, and yet your flames are quite weak compared to the ones I've endured in Dom101. Do you really wish to continue? Fine by me, but it won't really do you much good. quote: Me and KOF? I thought we were talking about the advantadges of using underdogs instead of top-tiers, me beating O. Rugal players with Billy was only an example of that (wow I'd say that deep down you sound IMPRESSED or something. You keep bringing it up) And several times I have said that your "example" is a very poor one, seeing as you admit your opponents are poorly skilled. The SF3 example is a much better one, and seeing as that has nothing to do with you at all, I don't see why you think it's so important. Believe me, your constant talk of how great you think you are doesn't impress me in the least (not much really does anymore, aside from an absolute domination of a hardcore player). quote: Ok excuse my lack of originality then. After all, we're only in the 1st day of our future flamewar and I tend to get much more wittier after the 1st week. You'll see. Anyways Breasts of Fire seems a great aleas for you, being a sluttish Drag Queen and all that. It sure attracts lotsa joes to your butt Ho hum...you want a future flamewar, you're gonna have to do better than that. I'm quickly losing interest, seeing as you aren't being very intelligent or insulting here. Don't bother telling me about your odd fantasies and hobbies, I'm not interested in a gay-ass like you (I have nothing against gays, as long as they don't proposition me). quote: No I just survived that easily. Just like the Trickster god Coyote, the one your little mythological reference was based on. According to the Native Americans eventually he'll outlive the rest of the things on Earth. Just like me, little fatherfucker You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you? You must be so clever, because you know all about Native American mythology. Anyway, I fed you to a pack of coyotes because they were convenient, if there had been a pile of worms I would have thrown your carcass in them. Get it through your head....you are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! Oh wait....you are still alive. Okay. *cuts immature into little pieces and throws him into a tank of pirahnas* There. Now it's THE END. Don't come back, unless you wanna talk about games. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:16:2001 11:12 PM: "Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!" How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a lucky match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than him) will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of course). Why? Because it was a shitty match. "Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!" Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE to loose. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 11:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!" How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a lucky match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than him) will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of course). Why? Because it was a shitty match. "Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!" Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE to loose. Well, I'll have to admit you do have a point here. While winning is it's own fun, the most important thing (unless you're in a tourney) is that you are having a good time, win or lose. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 12:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!" How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a lucky match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than him) will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of course). Why? Because it was a shitty match. 1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY? quote: "Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!" Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE to loose. Funny! I lose and alot! As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday! And I had fun everytime I lost but the fucking point is that I AIM to win every fucking time I put my money in the machine! And I actually won a few games why cause I had fun and I strive to win everyfucking time! It's not much fun to lose everyfucking time and in a few hours have no more money to lose again for fun! I think if you are not striving to winning everytime I guess you got use to losing to many times! Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 05:40 PM: "1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY?" Forget it, it's beyond your comprehension. "As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday" If you feel unsecure, and can't keep up with this thread, then don't post. Man, I wonder why the Americans complain abt people mocking them. Posted by Sabin on 01:17:2001 07:53 PM: <---- is a very cheap player People who whine/bitch/moan about cheapness are scrubs, PERIOD. You don't see the "top players" whining at all.. If you disagree with me, you are wrong. IMO, it's ok to say something is "cheap", there are plenty of moves/chars which can be labeled as cheap - but just find a way around the cheapness, or don't play at all (or bitch and whine like some people in this thread are doing.) - Arturo Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 08:51 PM: Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers. "If you disagree with me, you are wrong" Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you. And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed assumptions. Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:17:2001 09:08 PM: Why hasn't this thread been closed? It led to a lot of name-calling and jealousy. Anyway, this topic often pops up once in a while. And each time this topic resurfaces, there is always fighting. If the conversation could be carried on in a more intelligent manner, that would be one thing. But the way it's going, things really don't look so good. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 09:57 PM: "...jealousy..." Would you mind explaining that? Name Calling is right, but jelaousy?????? Posted by dairy queen guy on 01:17:2001 10:10 PM: you are right man. if you can beat someone without using your best shit, do it. but don't totally lock up some beginner cause that stinks man. that guy will probably feel real bad afterward. however- he might decide to study what you're doing and study the game and understand what's up. so why not do it? it is hard and depends on people personally. but let me tell you man there isn't Shit that is unfair. there is only crap that is ugly, stupid, and fucking dumb. and cowardly. but not cheap. nothing is cheating in any capcom fighting game. the guy who is fucking up that beginner mercilessly might be being a real ass hole, but it is His Right. alright? he paid his 50 cents just like anyone else and in fact he's probably paid a lot more than just one 50 cents man. probably paid enough to buy a dreamcast and 2 sticks and 100 trips to the arcade so why not do what he wants to do because it is his right. in fact more his right than the beginner's right to have a fun match when he's only spent one time 50 cents and he's against someone who's spent hundreds of dollars. that guys more entitled to what he wants. even guys who use ugly ass gay fucking no brains techniques that are as ugly to watch as they are have a right to do what they want. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 10:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY?" Forget it, it's beyond your comprehension. "As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday" If you feel unsecure, and can't keep up with this thread, then don't post. Man, I wonder why the Americans complain abt people mocking them. 1st of all learn how to express your self! YOu make no fucking sence! And if I feel unsecure? WTF? YOu are dumber than DUMB AND DUMBER! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 10:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers. "If you disagree with me, you are wrong" Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you. And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed assumptions. Ok bitch wtf are you saying again? Closer to be a god than you? Get a fucking clue you moron! And bye the way is about not abt! I seen you fuck up that word alot you dumb bastard! Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 10:40 PM: Hmmm, Kelomaniac, what is all that shit comming out of your mouth? Have you lost something? Like a clue? Hmmm, how did you Capcomers called someone who crys over a defeat? Scrub I guess. Look pal, if you can't keep up with a thread then don't post. Oh, "abt" is short for "about", I didn't make it, and many people uses it. Now, who's so piss off to starting talking crap? Who's the dumb? It's not me, you can bet on it. Posted by Nek on 01:17:2001 11:19 PM: Here's a better five letter word SKILL! Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:17:2001 11:27 PM: Damn ... http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by Nek on 01:17:2001 11:34 PM: Here's a better five letter word SKILL! Posted by SithKilla on 01:17:2001 11:48 PM: Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack. I didn't even read that whole post but i just though that was funny in a post about video games. I think things would be alot clearer if we make a distinction between something being cheap and unbalanced. To me something can be unbalanced but not necesarily cheap due to the fact that both players have an equal chance of winning. However the person who has the character that does a 100% damage combo might have the advantage. But again that does not make him/her cheap it just makes it a shitty game. To me something is cheap when your opponent has no chance of winning. Also if you read about what a Glitch is you will realize that it is a negative tearm used when there is a problem. A glitch in the game was not put there on purpose. Thats why its a glitch. I guess all in all when i look at it its the game itself thats cheap. Having to deal with 40% chip damage and infinites is disgusting. As Akumachan has stated Camcom has lost thier work eithic and just doesn't test thier games enough. Blame the Compony, not the Player. Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:17:2001 11:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack. I didn't even read that whole post but i just though that was funny in a post about video games. I think things would be alot clearer if we make a distinction between something being cheap and unbalanced. To me something can be unbalanced but not necesarily cheap due to the fact that both players have an equal chance of winning. However the person who has the character that does a 100% damage combo might have the advantage. But again that does not make him/her cheap it just makes it a shitty game. To me something is cheap when your opponent has no chance of winning. Also if you read about what a Glitch is you will realize that it is a negative tearm used when there is a problem. A glitch in the game was not put there on purpose. Thats why its a glitch. I guess all in all when i look at it its the game itself thats cheap. Having to deal with 40% chip damage and infinites is disgusting. As Akumachan has stated Camcom has lost thier work eithic and just doesn't test thier games enough. Blame the Compony, not the Player. Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Good post. http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif Saikyo! Justin Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 12:22 AM: "Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack." I hope you got the Sarcasm/Joke of that post. It was intended to be funny, but I have the cold sensation you though I was talking seriously and didn't understand the hidden flame. Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 01:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!" Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn something new or test my newly acquired techniques. You are being way too general here. Yes, in general, video games are meant to be fun. But fighting games are a subgenre of video games, and fighting games are supposed to be both fun AND competition. And what's the point of competition? To win. If someone's primary interest in a game is nifty graphics, halfnaked chicks, and/or interesting stories, he go plays a RPG. If someone's primary interest in a game is to compete against other human oppponents, he go plays a fighting game. And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything. The point of competition is to win, pure and simple. You also compete to test your skills, gain respect from your peers, etc. etc. But the bottom line is, you're trying to win. And don't give me crap that "always trying to win" takes all the fun out of it. A lot of people enjoy playing to win. And when those people win, especially against people who say they play "just for fun", I notice that while the winners look satisfied, the losers don't look they're having fun at all. As a matter of fact, I've observed that a good number of the losers look like they're about to cry, or something. Of course, there is an etiquette of sorts when you're playing fighting games. And people's ideas of etiquette will differ, which is what you and other people disagree on. I can't say much about your arguments, really, cuz etiquette varies from place to place. But in a tournament, the etiquette is simple: as long as you're not breaking the rules, anything goes. Now, you may not play in tournaments, and that's fine, cuz you can still have fun playing against friends or something. But don't rag on tourney players who, in your opinion, do "cheap stuff". The bottom line is, a fighting game is all about competition, and the point is to win. They have the right to do whatever they want. If it means repeating some trap over and over, and forcing the opponent to find a way out of it, so be it. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:18:2001 03:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Hmmm, Kelomaniac, what is all that shit comming out of your mouth? Have you lost something? Like a clue? Hmmm, how did you Capcomers called someone who crys over a defeat? Scrub I guess. Look pal, if you can't keep up with a thread then don't post. Oh, "abt" is short for "about", I didn't make it, and many people uses it. Now, who's so piss off to starting talking crap? Who's the dumb? It's not me, you can bet on it. Bitch I dont call nobody shit in the arcade. YOu sure make no sence everytime you get in here to type something! Can you please elaborate more! YOu see what I'm doing I'm sticking to the quote, you are not! If you are going to reply, reply to this quote dont come out saying some shit that those not make sence! and it's who's the dumbass not dumb! Jackass!!!! Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 05:00 AM: Gee, I'm mercifull today. Kelomaniac: So, retard, what do you want me to elaborate. ej_333: "If someone's primary interest in a game is nifty graphics, halfnaked chicks, and/or interesting stories, he go plays a RPG" Then why do you people play MvsC2??????? "If someone's primary interest in a game is to compete against other human oppponents, he go plays a fighting game" Well, one could play a racing game or even one of those idiotic tennis games that are so popular nowadays. "And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything." Errrmmm...it isn't. Plain and simple. If you think so, then you'll either play newbies or get shitfaced over a defeat. "You also compete to test your skills" You finallly got one point out of... "And don't give me crap that "always trying to win" takes all the fun out of it." Takes all the fun??? Can you read??? I'm not defending loosers you know (well maybe you don't know). "I notice that while the winners look satisfied, the losers don't look they're having fun at all." If they have your stupid mentality that winning is everything, then I'm sure they're not having fun. Now, when was the last time you've seen someone like that? I haven't met anyone in this board with such a mentality. I bet you're talking crap. "the losers look like they're about to cry" If you take video games that seriously, you really need help. "But in a tournament..." Now, this shows you didn't pay attention at all, all I can say is read my previous posts or shut the fuck up (choose one). "But don't rag on tourney players who, in your opinion, do "cheap stuff"". Which tourney player??? Care to enlighten me? And when did I say that? Read my prior posts when I talk abt tournaments. "The bottom line is, a fighting game is all about competition, and the point is to win" That's your opinion, so don't state it as a universal truth. "If it means repeating some trap over and over, and forcing the opponent to find a way out of it, so be it." Well I will answer this with another story that someone posted in a KoF forum when a thread about US players popped up (I really hope you get this one). England had a team at KoF, they always though they were the best (or at least the though they were big shit). One unfaithfull day, the faced a Hong Kong team at that game. Well, the Hong Kong team mopped the floor with them. What is the moral? The English people got certain level of playing, and instead of going for more, they though it was enough as it was "working" on their arcades (as it seems to happen to Cali players). Why doing something that takes more effort if this easy pattern is working? On the other hand, the Hong Kong guys, with all those "stupid" rules of no throwing and other anti-cheapness, worked hard and didn't rely on the easy stuff, improving their playing to a level that wasn't known in England. I hope you get the idea. Posted by ImMature on 01:18:2001 08:07 AM: Yo Breasts on Fire, "so why waste my energy in this topic (since it is now quite obviously dead)?" *You* killed the topic. BAAAASTAAARD!! " If you really wanna flame me and cuss at me (since you are so obviously starved for attention), you're gonna have to wait until we get into an argument over another topic, because I simply don't have the time to waste throwing meaningless insults back and forth. I gotta have something to really argue over." Ok, so let's argue over your mom then. How much does she ask for a blowjob? "It's all really a matter of perspective. From your perspective, you were playing with me (my, my, aren't you so smart), whereas from my perspective, you were really just wasting your breath." AND yours too, never forget. I mean, why do you keep replying to me then? Prove you're smarter than me and just don't reply anymore "You see, unlike you, I don't believe that it takes real intelligence to call someone names (which seems to be your favorite pasttime). Hm? Didn't you say above that name-calling and picking on people in the forums was your favorite pasttime too? Shit I hate hypocrites "Why so eager to cling to the past? Are you afraid the future won't turn out the same way?" Cause I want to teach you a practical lesson on anticipation just to make sure you got what I said in my previous posts. Letsee, so far I've classified you as the kinda guy who'd keep replying to my crap over & over again until I get tired of it and decide to leave you alone. Here is your chance to prove me wrong. Next time just shut the fuck up and don't reply. I repeat: NEXT TIME JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DON'T REPLY. Here, is your chance to prove I'm not able to play mind games with you anymore. Let's see what your next move will be "You really don't have anything better to do with your spare time, so you desperately want to keep throwing poor insults at me? Truly, that is sad (and I mean it)." Naw don't worry about that; I don't do it in my spare time but when I'm bored at work. There is a world of difference, buddy "Do you really wish to continue? Fine by me, but it won't really do you much good." As if you had a chance. See above "And several times I have said that your "example" is a very poor one, seeing as you admit your opponents are poorly skilled. The SF3 example is a much better one, and seeing as that has nothing to do with you at all, I don't see why you think it's so important. Believe me, your constant talk of how great you think you are doesn't impress me in the least (not much really does anymore, aside from an absolute domination of a hardcore player)." Forget about the O. Rugal example. Complicated stuff. And I don't feel like explaining it anymore "Ho hum...you want a future flamewar, you're gonna have to do better than that. I'm quickly losing interest, seeing as you aren't being very intelligent or insulting here." What I'm seeing is that you seem unable to adapt yourself. I hope for your own sake you do better in fighters than you do in flamewars (I doubt it though) cause you're definitely NOT getting it yet. And yeah, you may lose interest. But as I said before, you have no choice "Don't bother telling me about your odd fantasies and hobbies, I'm not interested in a gay-ass like you" In fact we were talking about YOURS, weren't we? "You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you? You must be so clever, because you know all about Native American mythology. Anyway, I fed you to a pack of coyotes because they were convenient, if there had been a pile of worms I would have thrown your carcass in them. Get it through your head....you are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! Oh wait....you are still alive. Okay. *cuts immature into little pieces and throws him into a tank of pirahnas*" Now THAT was lame "There. Now it's THE END." We'll see "Don't come back, unless you wanna talk about games. " That was *exactly* what I was doing until you started acting like some hysterical bitch and flaming me, remember? So stop whinning Posted by ImMature on 01:18:2001 09:20 AM: Anyone else noticed that Seth's professional cocksuckers like Breastie & Dasrik only make him "win" arguments by means of name-calling? I wonder how this pathetic bunch of faggots actually have prevented most people here from standing up for his beliefs. So bring it on you fascist shitheads, take a rest from licking Seth 'Oh I lost cause the controller worked *fine*' Killian's ass and let's keep up the flame bait (my main reason for coming to SRK.com anyways) Posted by Hydro on 01:18:2001 09:55 AM: dont play a game if you are going to get cheated? you soound like bitch dont cheese or cheat shut that shit up.you might as well give him your 50cents and learn from him.i was cheated at a tourney Ricky runaway storm i put him in the loser bracket i beat him wit just im and i played him 4 3rd and he got a lead and ran 4 71 seconds my little brother said i should whip his ass 4 that 4 what.all that shit you all havin a baby over can be stop so stop complainin bitches your pride will lead to your destruction. Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 10:35 AM: Damn, I misunderstood this thread. I thought this thread was talking about tourney scenarios, but this thread isn't. I'm entering a tourney this weekend, and I'm getting myself into hardcore mode. If I'd known that this was a non-tourney-scenario post, I'd have had a different perspective on things. But still, you didn't have to cuss me out. Like u said, it's just a game, ease up on that shit. Oh yeah, and there is some stuff I wanted to elaborate on: quote: "And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything." When I said this, I was thinking about a tourney scenario. But outside of tourney play, yeah, people don't always have to play to win. Sometimes you play to learn new chars or strats, or if you're playing with friends, sometimes you just mess around or show off. In a tourney scenario, though, you'd do anything to win, no doubt about that. quote: "I notice that while the winners look satisfied, the losers don't look they're having fun at all." If they have your stupid mentality that winning is everything, then I'm sure they're not having fun. Now, when was the last time you've seen someone like that? I haven't met anyone in this board with such a mentality. I bet you're talking crap. Ok, we have a misunderstanding here. I did not mean to say that everyone who loses gets unhappy and bitchy. I meant to say that the people who usually cry "cheap", they're the ones who get all unhappy and bitchy when they lose. My sentence was poorly written. quote: "the losers look like they're about to cry" If you take video games that seriously, you really need help. Um, I wasn't talking about myself. I was talking about those people who take losing badly (again, it's usually the guys who cry cheap). I myself am a very mellow guy, and I take losing very well. Several people on this forum have played against me, and they know that I'm gracious when I lose. But about the repetitive/KOF thing: You were complaining about people who do repetitive and redundant stuff, that they're just morons who aren't broadening their horizons. But I don't think that's true. My opinion is this: if a guy is doing a repetitive pattern over and over, and if the repetitive stuff proves to be effective, why should he stop doing it? It's not up to him to expand on his strategy. It is up to his opponents to figure out a way to break the pattern. And until the pattern is broken, I don't see why anyone should stop using it. I follow KOF, so I'll use that KOF98 HK/England tourney as an example. I don't think lowly of Ryan Hart and the other English peeps for getting trashed by Terence Chung. I'm sure the English were fiercely competing amongst themselves, but they were going about it the wrong way. From what I understand, back then, the English played mostly a defensive/zoning style, which involved a lot of poking and stuff. Hart was probably the best at it, too. And no way Hart would change his strategies, unless his competition could beat his strat. And since he's champ, every English guy probably emulated his style. Thus, Hart was used to poke/zoners, and totally unprepared for Chung. I don't blame Hart or England, it's just that the HK comp is way fiercer than the English comp, so Chung was pushed to higher limits than Hart. I don't want to explain why I think HK comp is better than English comp, cuz you've prolly already read my explanation. You talking about the KOF post on Yasakani's board? Well, I was the guy who wrote that post about the HK/English thing. You probably already know that, though. Oh, and I did get your point. You were drawing an analogy between HK/England and Japan/USA. Well, what can I say, you guys were better and beat us. That's that, we'll see what goes down next year. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 06:42 PM: "But still, you didn't have to cuss me out." I tend to do so after repeating myself in four pages. "Um, I wasn't talking about myself" It was a general "you". I meant that most people that take it to that extent needs help. "It's not up to him to expand on his strategy." If your competition is not good enough as to put your techniques to a real test, then you should try to improve yourself anyways. If not, then the overall level at your arcades will remain the same. "You were drawing an analogy between HK/England and Japan/USA" Heh, now that I know who you are, it's not a surprise you got that. BTW, you should also consider that the japs are not only improving themselves in the games they won, but also will give the US team a big surprise on MvsC2, and after reading too many posts here, I must say that the level in US is not growing. Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 09:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "But still, you didn't have to cuss me out." I tend to do so after repeating myself in four pages. Yah, I get where you're coming from, but still, I wouldn't be doing that, it's not my style to get pissy at a keyboard and monitor. But never mind, forget it. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: " "It's not up to him to expand on his strategy." If your competition is not good enough as to put your techniques to a real test, then you should try to improve yourself anyways. If not, then the overall level at your arcades will remain the same. True, a guy should always strive to get better, even if he is already top dawg. But you have to admit, if you're losing, or if the comp is really tight, the push to become better becomes a lot stronger. And sometimes, it just takes a butt-kicking to get yourself pushed. I mean, you bring up an example yourself. Before the tourney, the J's only got so good at MvC2, and I doubt that, by themselves, they were going to get considerably better after so much time had already passed. But the US beat the J's bad in MvC2, and the J's realized they gotta change the way they approach the game. Same with how the J's beat the US in 3S and Alpha. Unfortunately, we just dont like 3S that much, and I dont think the US is training that hard in 3S, despite the loss, unless the top players are practicing in secret, or something. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: BTW, you should also consider that the japs are not only improving themselves in the games they won, but also will give the US team a big surprise on MvsC2, and after reading too many posts here, I must say that the level in US is not growing. I disagree, I think MvC2 is still developing here. New stuff is popping up, like Cable becoming a little less effective, counter teams to BH/Cyke, Spiral/Cable/Cyke, ICEMAN amazingly enough is starting to come up in tourney results... and if the J's figure out something revolutionary about MvC2, more power to them, bring it next tourney, it'll be neat to see. I have no opinion on what might happen come next tourney, cuz I'm not involved in that stuff, I'm not a top player, I'm just a middle-of-the-road tourney player. But I'm sure the US players will bring their A-games. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:18:2001 09:41 PM: O suck my cock! Winning is not everything is the only thing! If you play to lose ...... ah never mind! all I have to say about this thread is, if you think the game is cheap, why play it and complain!? Like Hayo said Ricky runs away like a little bitch with Storm(NO pun RIck I do the samething)! Lots of people think that shit is cheap! But if you got a good anti air Storm can't run all day! The game is not cheap maybe more like unbalance. You just need to counter attack! Cable can AHVBx3 times a assits is Spiral is on point! Storm can't run if you got a good anti assits! Spiral can't throw swords all day if Sentinel is on point! Sentinel/BH trap would no work all that well if Cable is on point with some meters. And the list goes on and on! The fact is that a good player that knows the game would not complaine! They would just counter attack your shit! If you dont like the game dont play it! If it's cheap, dont play it! If you play it dont call it cheap! If you lose dont call the person cheap cause most lickly you hear the word scrub! Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 10:15 PM: ej_333: Believe me, more than angry I get tired and flamming is my sport in this place. You should have told me on the other forum and I wouldn't have flame you, but it was getting tiresome (this is not the only thread where the topic popped up) and a lot of BS showed up. Of course it is easier when there is morecompetition, but I think that if you have a good position in your arcades, you should push competition to a higher level instead of only doing what's "easy and works". Again it was a general "you". BTW, I don't think tha Japs nor most of other countries give a damned about MvsC2. But I can bet they're going to train it as they know that game will be in the next tourney. Kelomaniac: You have no dick, so stop crying bitch!!! "Winning is not everything is the only thing!" Then how shitty must be life for a loser like you. "if you think the game is cheap" Who talked about a game??? You barely can keep up with a thread. "Ricky runs away like a little bitch" Which Ricky? Ricky Martin? That was a gay quote. "Lots of people think that shit is cheap!" That's stupid!!! Running all over the place??? If you can do so with an acceptable amount of success then the game is crap. "The fact is that a good player that knows the game would not complain" Not in your face dude, but he surely will talk shit about you with his friends. "They would just counter attack your shit!" Not "would" it's "will" "If you dont like the game dont play it!" No dubt, you're a rocket scientist. "If it's cheap, dont play it!" If it's cheap I will give it more runs for the same amount of bucks. "If you play it dont call it cheap!" If it's twelve cents the go, then I'm in my right to call it cheap. "If you lose" If you loose, you shut the fuck up (or ask the other guy for advices) and train harder. I made that clear a long ago but seems you're too retard to get it. Posted by Zidane on 01:18:2001 10:16 PM: Damn, you guys all suck...ppl who whine about cheapness need to get some real skills [This message has been edited by Zidane (edited 01-18-2001).] Posted by Sabin on 01:18:2001 10:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers. "If you disagree with me, you are wrong" No, that's not the Seth Killian motto. People say that because it's pretty much true. People who complain about cheapness and whine about it to the ends of the earth are SCRUBS, and that's that. I ask you again - name one tourney player who complains about cheapness on srk, or anywhere. I guarantee you won't find anyone like that. BTW, I am not a "Seth Follower", I have met Seth in real life and he is a very intelligent guy, and nice to boot (although not online, where he has to deal with idiots on SRK all day.) I just agree with his theories and his way of thinking, which make perfect sense. You'll never comprehend... quote: Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you. What was that supposed to mean? Do I see O. Ryoga's name up on SRK (or wherever) for tourney results, in any game? I thought so. So stop talking garbage. quote: And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed assumptions. I read the thread already...and all I see are the same tired old arguments all over again from a bunch of scrubs who will never win tourneys, ever. You guys can complain all you want. While you're on srk debating what is "cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys with the "repetitive" strategies and what-not you deem to be "cheap". Thank you, passing through. - Arturo [This message has been edited by Sabin (edited 01-18-2001).] Posted by Jinmaster on 01:18:2001 10:33 PM: Immature, You are being immature about this IMO. I told you that no one is going to understand your view of cheapness unless they go out of their way to see what we went through in the lemmings thread. Arguing further about terms that are fundamentally different is pointless IMO. IMO means in my opinion by the way. Sabin is another tourney player like myself who probably doesn't have the time to understand your points. As I said before, you need to find another word than cheap for what you have been describing here so that we can end this debate. Both sides know what they are talking about, remember that the terms are different. -Micah Posted by SithKilla on 01:18:2001 11:15 PM: Just like to make some comments. Kelomaniac: I hope you win every tournament you are in because I don't want to see you self destruct when you do lose since you are not perfect and winning is everything to you. But I won't knock your views I just don't understand them. Everyone has been saying "you don't hear the winners saying they were cheap". well let me tell you I have been in state tournaments using what some might call "cheap" or unfair tactics and I have admitted to them that i was going to do some glitches ahead of time and for the most part they weren't too pissed. (not including gambits). Its all about perspective and interpretation. Also i find it sad that this good topic has been graded down to a elementary school mud slinging flame war. I haven't seen anyone say anything constructive about this topic for the last 5 posts and if you had it was overshadowed with quotes of insults. Truly sad. Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 11:43 PM: Jinmaster: Nah, everyone that payed attention knows what we're talking about. BTW, everyone knows what IMO, IMHO and that stuff means, we're outsiders but after a year of posting you get used to that kind of writting. BTW, the real problem here is that most people seem to be unable to have a good discussion. Sabin: "People say that because it's pretty much true" To you, idiot. People that say "if you disagree you're wrong" or "if you think otherwise you're a scrub" are jerks that can't discuss even a simple matter like the one in this thread. Assuming you have a universal truth but, at the same time, not giving any back up is an obvious way to show you know nothing and can't keep up with the discussion. "People who complain about cheapness and whine about it to the ends of the earth are SCRUBS, and that's that." Read my previous paragraph and my previous posts. "name one tourney player who complains about cheapness on srk" Do I look like I give a fuck what your so-called tourney players do? Read my previous post where I explain when a winner talks shit about a loser. "I am not a Seth Follower" You talk like one. "I have met Seth in real life and he is a very intelligent guy" He doesn't look like one. "he has to deal with idiots on SRK all day" Dunno abt his past experiences before starting Domination 101, but after reading a couple of threads, he deserves to be flamed. Notice that I didn't do that, 'cause I don't know if he's reading anything these days. "I just agree with his theories and his way of thinking, which make perfect sense." Did you read that article about balance in games? If you agreee with him, you don't know shit about games (from my point of view, some ass kissers may think he's right). "You'll never comprehend" Sorry, I understand where he comes from, but I don't think he's right. Besides you're the one running out of brain cells dude. "What was that supposed to mean? Do I see O. Ryoga's name up on SRK (or wherever) for tourney results, in any game? I thought so. So stop talking garbage." I knew you were too dumb to get that little joke. I was mocking about your arrogance. What? I'm not in Shoryuken list of the best players of the world? *cough*japs either*cough*. Well, I don't play fucking Crapcom games besides CvsS and I don't live in the US. Oh, and your name appears in list? Which place? Heh, Seth went to Japan and lost all his matches, you can say he appears in a list, but I could have done the same (and remember I don't play those games). So keep your mouth shut, being good at your local arcade means shit. "I read the thread already...and all I see are the same tired old arguments all over again from a bunch of scrubs who will never win tourneys, ever." Huh? you mean your local arcade tourneys? Make another guess, you haven't read any crap. Now I bet you're gonna start calling Alex, Ricky and Vicky to support your lack of facts, right? "While you're on srk debating what is "cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys with the "repetitive" strategies and what-not you deem to be "cheap"." Heh, if you're such a tourneyman, why don't you appear in SRK's list of best players? And why didn't you go to Japan to show how much a winner you are? Guess again, you're just pretending to be good, but you must have only beaten the half assed scrubs that complain, and never did good against a real good player. So Sabin, do you have any fact to back up your sayings? Guess what, people outside the US gives a rat's ass about your tournamnets (in fact most people say that you suck but I'm not there to personally check). Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:18:2001 11:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by Drunkengameplayer: *SIGH* What a nice little shit storm that I have stumbled into. Hmmmmmmm, cheap vs. there is no such thing....... I wonder. Let's see, throwing too much is cheap...... turtling is cheap....... constant patterns is cheap...... alot of stuff in this thread is considered to be cheap. So, let me get this straight, that is cheap, but showing off is'nt. Let's just say that i'm playing against somebody, and he pulls off this amazing, hard, never in a million years combo, and it kills me right off the bat. It causes everybody in the arcade on a Saturday night to go quiet. It is the best looking thing I have ever seen on this game, and the ability of skill to do it is literally "amazing", not to mention the fact that my opponent got it off in the middle of actual combat, not in practice mode. Does this make it cheap? Now, the skill to do it is phenomenal, but it KILLED me. I have no chance of a comeback, why, cause i'm dead. So I ask again, is this cheap? Personally, i'd rather be killed buy the guy who does nothing but backwards triangle jumps into the corner with a uppercut/fireball character. The person who does nothing but sweeps two-in-oned into fireballs. Or the guy, who throws you every chance he get's. So when I lose, I know that it is because of me, not some flashy combo that can only be done by two people (the guy who did it and GOD himself). Don't get me wrong, i'm not putting down showing off, I love to do it also. But what people got to realize, is that there is no code of honor, it's just a game. The word honor should'nt even be applied to a game, cause there is none. There are times that a person can show off, but if it comes down to me killing the guy with a throw, or a hard to do super combo, i'd pick the throw. When I play somebody, I want a skilled player, not a combo/show off exhebitionist. All the combos and flashy manuevers mean SHIT when a person loses. IMO, there is no such thing as cheap (except for glitches, those do not apply to what I just said). But that is just my opinion. Cheapness is pretty much like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif"> BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862. http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862. Posted by ej_333 on 01:19:2001 12:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: ej_333: Believe me, more than angry I get tired and flamming is my sport in this place. You should have told me on the other forum and I wouldn't have flame you, but it was getting tiresome (this is not the only thread where the topic popped up) and a lot of BS showed up. It's cool, don't worry about it. Just a misunderstanding, I thought the thread was about strictly tourney stuff. Oh yah, it didn't occur to me to tell you that I visit Yasakani's forum, cuz I didn't realize that you were Ryoga in the other forum. Until you mentioned the KOF post thing, that is. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:19:2001 01:05 AM: Ej_333: Didn't you read all the stuff ImMature and I were posting about this place? In fact I'm more my normal self back there, but maybe it's because of the things I've found here, that I'm very flammy with people in this forum. Drunkengameplayer: What the fuck are you doing in an arcade a Saturday night? Most of the stuff you reposted was answered, if you don't feel staisfied, mark which sentences do you want me or anybody else to reply. Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:19:2001 02:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: Just like to make some comments. Kelomaniac: I hope you win every tournament you are in because I don't want to see you self destruct when you do lose since you are not perfect and winning is everything to you. But I won't knock your views I just don't understand them. I undestand what you are saying! I didn't mean it the way it sounded! But fair enough I eat what you had to say! I been to several tourny's. The last one been SHGL(most noticible), I breeze to the 1st round but the second round I had to face Duc I won the 1st match and he slatur me the next too! I take my lost and that was it! He trap me in the wall of swords and I was pretty much done! I didnt turn around and call him cheap!! But that's besides the point! All I was trying to say by that comment was that everytime I play I play to win! I dont know of anybody that plays to lose! Do you? I went out of my way by saying winning is everything but the fact is that is not! Cause you are never going to win everything, but everytime most people step out there they have winning in mind! Unless they suck and they alredy know they are going to lose! And I have a few game that I know I'm going to lose no matter what! So dont worry for me Seth I will not self destruct! Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 03:26 AM: To Ryoga: Hey, you better ignore that Kelomaniac guy, he just keeps posting all kinda crap he can think of in the hopes of earning even more HPs. How else do you think he got all those Nazi birds he has?? To Sabin: You're totally clueless, dude. As simple as that. I wonder what in the hell made me think otherwise before. I'll try to put it simply enough for you: Usa != The World, The World > USA. Get it AT FUCKING ONCE? There exist other areas, other players, other tournaments and definitely other oppinions different from those of the Cali top-tiers. But then again, OF COURSE, everybody else is wrong, isn't it? To Jinmaster: Well sorry 'bout that, but I've already noticed that every time a person start disagreeing with the "majority" here at SRK.com he's *invariably* flamed. No exceptions. And yeah, I know there is some cultural missundestanding between us but the weird thing is, in every fighting games-related forum I've been before, cheapness is a perfectly acceptable term, everybody knows what it means. Capcom fans I know in Real Life accept the existance of the concept as well. I wonder why here is different. When people here "discovered" that cheapness didn't exist and how come the rest of the people who use to play fighters (and I don't mean only SNK ones) haven't discovered it yet? Posted by Jinmaster on 01:19:2001 03:26 AM: O. Ryoga, I disagree somewhat, I think the majority of people see you and Immature talking about cheapness, and people are all too anxious to respond with thier own ideas. They think you guys are whining like most scrubs in the united states do about cheapness. MAYBE I can clear this up guys.... EVERYONE: Immature means to say that there is a point where you play fighting games as a newbie, you suck, and can't beat anyone. Then there is a point where one discovers that certain patterns and moves allow you to beat the low end of your competetion with little else. By using these same things over and over to win, ones game does not really improve or even mean very much, even though the winner might think it does. Immature and Ryoga call this stage in one's game cheap. The idea that doing something over and over makes you good. This is the reason that I don't think Immature is a scrub, he has said several times that he agrees that it takes zero skill to lose, that winners always show more skill than losers. He is only saying that repetitive play, in and of itself, doesn't show for much since fighting games go deeper than that. Therefore, people who play in such a way are called cheap in Immature's country/area. This is a different concept than the US thoughts on cheapness and scrubdom. Anyone who needs clarification should look up the "DUMB SNK LEMMINGS" thread a few pages back and read pages 7-10. Hopefully that will make this situation better. -Micah Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 03:56 AM: Thank you again Jinmaster. I see you got it. BTW I wanted to point out another thing. About scrubs accusing their opponents of being cheap after losing to 'em, OF COURSE it happens in my area as well (it's not the most common excuse though). Hell I've came here and supported (more or less) honorable gameplay but do you think that me myself am not called a cheapo sometimes as well? Hell of course I am. "Oh you only won cause you used Takuma/Mai/Choi/whoever and s/he is cheap!", "Oh how cheap reversals are!" (oh my gawd, reversals cheap?? They take anticipation, how in the world could someone believe such a thing). And that kinda stuff, it happens here too. OF COURSE I'm in the receiving end of those kinda comments some times as well. But so what? I dunno, thing is that people here really don't take in consideration what scrubs (=unskilled players who are not enough into the game) say, they can say whatever they want and nobody cares. We don't make such a big deal of which excuses scrubs may make up... Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:19:2001 03:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Drunkengameplayer: What the fuck are you doing in an arcade a Saturday night? Most of the stuff you reposted was answered, if you don't feel staisfied, mark which sentences do you want me or anybody else to reply.[/B] To tell the truth, I was half asleep when I did that, I wanted to say something, but I guess I just forgot. I did'nt even remember visiting these forums today until just now. LOL And I was'nt at the arcade on a Saturday night, it was a hypothetical scenario. http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 04:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok, so let's argue over your mom then. How much does she ask for a blowjob? Leave my mom out of this. Period. NOBODY insults my mother or my family. My mother is the nicest and most tolerant person I know (and she has advanced ovarian cancer, so I feel really bad about her right now). I don't give a rat's ass what you say about me, but leave my mom alone. That's as far as you can go before I really get upset (whereas before I was only mildly irritated). quote: Hm? Didn't you say above that name-calling and picking on people in the forums was your favorite pasttime too? Shit I hate hypocrites I said I like to mess with people who talk shit in the arcade and bitch all the time (ie., "That was bullshit!", which is one of their favorite quotes). Big difference. No hypocrisy there. quote: Cause I want to teach you a practical lesson on anticipation just to make sure you got what I said in my previous posts. Letsee, so far I've classified you as the kinda guy who'd keep replying to my crap over & over again until I get tired of it and decide to leave you alone. Here is your chance to prove me wrong. Next time just shut the fuck up and don't reply. I repeat: NEXT TIME JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DON'T REPLY. Here, is your chance to prove I'm not able to play mind games with you anymore. Let's see what your next move will be That in and of itself is part of your little "game". When someone stops responding to a bastard like you, you get the idea that you've "won", so either way, you have the "upper hand", whether I keep posting or not. The only reason I replied here is because you are spewing shit that I don't agree with (the crack on my mom, for example). quote: Naw don't worry about that; I don't do it in my spare time but when I'm bored at work. There is a world of difference, buddy Actually, there isn't, seeing as it doesn't make the hobby any less unintelligent or offensive. quote: Forget about the O. Rugal example. Complicated stuff. And I don't feel like explaining it anymore Nothing complicated about it. You beat scrubs (who use a powerful character) with underdogs. It's not impressive. I've seen it done and done it myself several times, and it's not difficult. quote: In fact we were talking about YOURS, weren't we? I've never done anything you've mentioned in your posts. You're the one who came up with that crap. If you think about stuff like that while you're at work, then that makes you a gay-ass. Has nothing to do with me. quote: That was *exactly* what I was doing until you started acting like some hysterical bitch and flaming me, remember? So stop whinning SHUT THE FUCK UP. And you called me a hypocrite. You are the one who called me a "level 2 scrub" in your response to my first post (which contained no flames at all). And the rest of your response was also littered with your little insults. You are the one who started a flamewar, not me. You were not really talking about games at all, you just insulted me about every five lines while throwing in some irrelevant crap about how you beat O.Rugal scrubs with Mature and Billy. That's all. And you *REALLY* don't know what hysterical is (or you have an odd definition). Not that it was relevant at all or had anything to do with the topic. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 05:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Anyone else noticed that Seth's professional cocksuckers like Breastie & Dasrik only make him "win" arguments by means of name-calling? I wonder how this pathetic bunch of faggots actually have prevented most people here from standing up for his beliefs. So bring it on you fascist shitheads, take a rest from licking Seth 'Oh I lost cause the controller worked *fine*' Killian's ass and let's keep up the flame bait (my main reason for coming to SRK.com anyways) In case you don't remember, I specifically told you in one of my earlier replies NOT to bring up Seth Killian. I'm not necessarily a Seth supporter, I just happen to agree with some of the stuff that he says. I'm not fucking trying to defend Seth, or "Seth's beliefs", I'm defending my own thoughts. And in case you didn't notice, anyone who *EVER* mentions a moderator or "authority" on this site usually gets the first flaming (usually from "fascist shitheads" like you), because people can't think of a better argument, except saying "You're an ass-licker, you're just kissing up to the mods". Jerk. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:19:2001 04:42 PM: Jinmaster: You got it right!!! Here I will do a summary: - If you loose, you shouldn't complain as no one will give a fuck about your reasons (like "the winner was cheap" or "the controllers worked fine"). Even though is perfectly acceptable to ask the winner for advices. - If you won by using the same pattern over and over again, don't think you're the big shit, it's most likely that your competition wasn't up to your technique. So, now that you master that technique, you can try something different so you don't get your ass handed when you meet a better competition (like the Japs). - If you won in a more stylish way (making people say "Ohhhh") then keep trying to learn more stuff, you're probably on the right path, but thinking you're the best is just dreaming. - Why if there is a simple pattern that works I should try something new? Well, someone who's style is repeating a simple pattern over and over again, will have big problems when the pattern gets solved (and if your best pattern becomes useless then you're likely to be history). - What is cheap? Big reward with little effort. It's mostly applyable to simple repetitive patterns whithout caring if it works or not. - Winners will probably call some losers cheap, but not in their faces; it's likely they will comment it with their friends. - Funny thing, there are lots of winners in the US, people that wins every tourney they enter. Even though I read like 5 names in the top (I mean, the first positions are always shared by a small group of players) and none of them are the ones that post here. Does it ring a bell? BTW, don't take it as a bash to all the US players, you know which two guys I'm talking about. - Now, no one is a follower of Seth, yet most of them blindly accept his sayings without thinking twice and flame those who are against it. Why to flame someone that's not flamming you if you are right? Guess what? You are not right at all and you don't know how to defend your beliefs. Posted by satsuinohadojosh on 01:19:2001 05:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kelomaniac: How many fucking times is this topic going to be made? There's no such thing! IMO is skills. WTF died and made this people in charge? I only hear people that lose call something cheap! Get over it his better than you that's why his beating you! If you think the shit they doing is cheap and easy to do why don't you do it back to them? I guess cause you are going to realize you where sorrier than what you tough! Bitches!!!! BTW meaning of Cheap: Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster. Stingy; miserly. listen to that last part of the quote. "worthy of no respect" i see this crap all the time. the spiral trap? its the same shit over and over again! all these guys that sit and master the spiral trap could be mastering something NEW. something that everyone hasnt seen before. something that LOOKS COOL. if the only people that say cheapness exists lose, then the only ones that say it doesnt are the ones that play cheap. there is no skill in cheese damage, my friends. Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 09:55 PM: And then again, you replied again AS I PREDICTED quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Leave my mom out of this. Period. NOBODY insults my mother or my family. My mother is the nicest and most tolerant person I know (and she has advanced ovarian cancer, so I feel really bad about her right now). I don't give a rat's ass what you say about me, but leave my mom alone. That's as far as you can go before I really get upset (whereas before I was only mildly irritated). Ok sorry 'bout that. Honest quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: That in and of itself is part of your little "game". When someone stops responding to a bastard like you, you get the idea that you've "won", so either way, you have the "upper hand", whether I keep posting or not. The only reason I replied here is because you are spewing shit that I don't agree with (the crack on my mom, for example). Either way I have the upper hand, that's pretty much correct. You got it, I'm impressed. BTW the stuff about your mom was intended to manipulate you into replying to my crap *again*. And hell it worked. I was sure you were gonna reply anyways though... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Actually, there isn't, seeing as it doesn't make the hobby any less unintelligent or offensive. Ok so try to remember that next time you gang up with morons like Dasrik on someone who disagrees with the majority quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Nothing complicated about it. You beat scrubs (who use a powerful character) with underdogs. It's not impressive. I've seen it done and done it myself several times, and it's not difficult. Sigh that again. As Setsuna X (Orochinagi.com mod) says, "a monkey trained to perform quarter cyrcle motions could RULE with O. Rugal". And it's pretty much true. Hey just don't trust me, just try to beat ANY O. Rugal SCRUB you know using Billy and find out for yourself. As long as said scrub knows how to perform O.Rugal's FB, Genocide Cutter anti-air, teleport move and the DMs I can grant you that, if you haven't practiced a lot with Billy, you WON'T beat him. I only gave you the O. Rugal example meaning that if you're able to beat O. Rugal players with Billy in '99DM, although they're scrubs (it doesn't matter much, O. Rugal's advantage over Billy is *HUGE* even if your opponent is not a master player), then when you come to KOF'98, WHERE THE REAL COMPETITION IS, you won't have much problem beating top-tier chars with Billy as well. I prefer not to put him against DAMN GOOD Iori or Takuma players though. And BTW, I seldom put Mature & Billy in the same team when playing a worthy opponent (I may be idealistic but not suicidal) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: SHUT THE FUCK UP. And you called me a hypocrite. You are the one who called me a "level 2 scrub" in your response to my first post (which contained no flames at all). And the rest of your response was also littered with your little insults. You are the one who started a flamewar, not me. WTF?!? Who started the fucking name-calling? It wasn't me, now was it?? Posted by Da Suburban Gangsta on 01:19:2001 10:08 PM: Cheap? The last thing that comes to my mind when I think cheap is Capcom games. I mean $150 for a Dreamcast, $40 for each game, $30 for extra controllers. That doesn't count as cheap in my book. And a day at the arcade can easily set me back...let's see...fifty cents a game...if I play ten games...and I win my usual zero percent of them...that leaves me two fifty in the hole. If it was cheap then the games would cost a penny to play, so therefore Capcom games are not cheap at all. ~Quoth the Gangsta: "Bang Bang"~ http://acidcore.hypermart.net/ecw/ecw010.jpg Posted by ej_333 on 01:19:2001 11:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Ej_333: Didn't you read all the stuff ImMature and I were posting about this place? Oh yah, I did, but I didn't think about it much. Your handle is slightly different here, too, so I never made the connection. I was much more aware of Immature's presence, though, cuz he seemed to talk about it a lot more. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 11:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Either way I have the upper hand, that's pretty much correct. You got it, I'm impressed. BTW the stuff about your mom was intended to manipulate you into replying to my crap *again*. And hell it worked. I was sure you were gonna reply anyways though... Actually, I was pretty much ready to stop talking and let you kill your own time, since I got tired of the same crap over and over. The crack about my mom just struck me as really being out of line. My philosophy is that you don't bring the family into it unless the family brings itself in. quote: Ok so try to remember that next time you gang up with morons like Dasrik on someone who disagrees with the majority My first post in this thread was a response to Invincible Swordsman, as well as an overall statement of my thoughts on the topic. I'm sorry if you felt like I was "ganging up on you", but I wasn't, really. You kind of jumped on me with your attitude because I disagreed with your view (which I guess I understand now). You'd be suprised on how much Dasrik and I disagree on (ie, he says Hayato sucks ass in MVC2, but I still think he's effective). quote: Sigh that again. As Setsuna X (Orochinagi.com mod) says, "a monkey trained to perform quarter cyrcle motions could RULE with O. Rugal". And it's pretty much true. Hey just don't trust me, just try to beat ANY O. Rugal SCRUB you know using Billy and find out for yourself. As long as said scrub knows how to perform O.Rugal's FB, Genocide Cutter anti-air, teleport move and the DMs I can grant you that, if you haven't practiced a lot with Billy, you WON'T beat him. I only gave you the O. Rugal example meaning that if you're able to beat O. Rugal players with Billy in '99DM, although they're scrubs (it doesn't matter much, O. Rugal's advantage over Billy is *HUGE* even if your opponent is not a master player), then when you come to KOF'98, WHERE THE REAL COMPETITION IS, you won't have much problem beating top-tier chars with Billy as well. I prefer not to put him against DAMN GOOD Iori or Takuma players though. And BTW, I seldom put Mature & Billy in the same team when playing a worthy opponent (I may be idealistic but not suicidal) Fine, fine, I'll get off the damn subject, but I still think having an opponent of equal skill is what counts when trying to point out character advantages. But you are right about O.Rugal, I'll give you that. And I understand wanting to play as your favorite characters. The KOF 99 Evolution version of Kyo (the REAL Kyo) is weakened greatly compared to his KOF 98 form, but I still use him (and I think I'm pretty damn good with him). quote: WTF?!? Who started the fucking name-calling? It wasn't me, now was it?? I think calling someone a scrub out of the blue can be considered name-calling (albeit on a very low level). So yes, it was you. In closing, I'd like to apologize for some of my earlier aggression. It's not really your fault that I didn't know what your specific definition of "cheap" was (although I think it's an inaccurate term to use to describe what you meant). I just got defensive because I thought you were attacking my views simply because I disagreed with you (I didn't all-out attack you in my first post). But no hard feelings, right? Later. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Sabin on 01:20:2001 04:18 AM: Hrm, I expected something like this to happen. O. Ryoga/ImMature Jinmaster is right, I'm not going to waste time trying to understand your point of views because we;;, it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you. If there's something I've learned after posting on message boards for several years, it's that you're not going to change someone's mind, especially not on the internet. Most ppl on message boards are very hard-headed anyways. So why waste your time? While I applaud Jinmaster for trying to make you peeps understand, I assume he has a lot of time on his handa =) Anyhow, I'm just posting to let you two know that I didn't read your arguments, at all. I skimmed through your responses to me and they were mainly filled with the words "idiot, moron, fuck, shit, etc". Which shows me that you resorted to name-calling - which is lame. Just to let you guys know, I will never agree with anything you say about cheapness, ever, regardless or what you say, and I'm done with my brief effort in trying to convince you. This is my last post on this topic. Oh, and before I go, I was wondering - O. Ryoga and ImMature, why are you two guys even here? It seems that you two (ImMature especially) have nothing better to do than to flame people into oblivion, resort to name-calling, pick fights with other people (like that time ImMature started the "Hey Crapcom morons" thread,) I thought that was pretty dumb. On top of that, when you guys do talk about SF, you have been proven wrong on multiple occasions (the recent example I remember is O. Ryoga trying to talk about EX-Yuri - lolol.) The thing that pisses me off the most about you guys is that you don't really post anything gameplay related, your posts are a bunch of flames, and you go out of your way to bash Capcom and proclaim that "KOF IS king" endlessly, knowing that you're going to piss people off. So I ask you guys again: Why are you even here? First of all, I'm pretty sure noone likes you on SRK. Secondly, I wouldn't find it fun to sit in front of my PC and flame ppl all day..it isn't fun at all. See? I "argued" without saying fuck you, you're a shithead, etc..without saying any meaningless insults. You should learn to argue without those; maybe more ppl will take you seriously. - Arturo Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:20:2001 05:07 AM: Heh, this is really funny, you guys always flame nd suddenly say you won't post any more in the thread, but eventually show up again. "it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you" It's not if you do it in the right terms, if you start with "If you disagree with me, you are wrong" or "scrub" or "go screw yourself" I'll obviously give a fuck about your sayings. "you're not going to change someone's mind" In fact, if you think no discussion will have a result, then you shouldn't start arguing. "Which shows me that you resorted to name-calling - which is lame" I never resort to that unless: - I'm enetering into a flame-bait type of thread. - I'm repeating myself over and over again (yeap, retyping is also boring) and all I've got is another flammy guy nicked Sabin or Kelomaniac. "the recent example I remember is O. Ryoga trying to talk about EX-Yuri" In fact it was never my desire to talk about that character and only said one stupid thing on that, if you need a tip to "win more tourneys" I won't mind enlightening you. "you don't really post anything gameplay related" In fact, I did and all I received as reply was "Alex says this" or "Seth says that" and no gameplay hint. That's why we call it "The Seth Killian Cult". See, you screwed at the ending. Seems you still have to learn how to communicate with people that doesn't share your opinions. Posted by TRuNK$ on 01:20:2001 05:17 AM: BOTTOM LINE IS, IF YOU'RE GOOD CHEAPNESS DOESN'T EXIST, END OF DISCUSSION!!!! http://www.geocities.com/to2008/KKtag.gif "teakwondo is the sport of kings" Posted by Zidane on 01:20:2001 04:53 PM: Just going to respond to a couple of random things here and there. Trunks: well said ImMature: Personally, the reason that the "top players" don't respond to these forums is because they don't think it's worth their time..Hell, if Alex tried to point out to you why your views on cheapness are wrong, I doubt you'd listen to him anyway..so most of the top playrs take a "why bother" mentality and just keep shut. Actually, a couple of the top players post every now and then...James Chen has been placing pretty consistently in CVS tourneys and he posts..not that much however.. Jinmanster isn't that consistent, although he has placed in a bunch of tourneys before (from what I see on SRK.) He knows what he's talking about, as well. I've seen that fool place in MVC2/CVS tourneys Sabin is pretty outspoken as well..he's the #1 player on the East Coast right now, and he's undefeated in CvS tourneys at the moment. He's on the SRK newsticker like every week, almost. I think he, too, takes the mentailty of "they're scrubs, why bother posting" - with a litle variation on it. He posts, but he'll only pot once or twice, say his viewpoints, and leave. BTW, I agree with Sabin that the majority of your posts are nothing but flames. Don't you get tired of flaming ppl all day? =/ O. Ryoga: LOL. I find it funny how you make up stuff - like the part in your response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he sucks. Funny how you say that - since he was a hair away from making it on Team USA. (He placed something like 7th, I think.) I think you're just making that up.. Also, I noticed that almost all of your arguments end up resorting to name-calling, or something else to that effect. How do you expect someone to understand your viewpoints when you keep name calling all the time? BTW, why do you think that everyone who shares Seth's views or defends him is a Seth follower? The guy does make sense when he writes his editorials. He brings up some valid points backed up by solid facts - which is more than you can say for the rest of your arguments. - Zidane, the lurking EC scrub Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:20:2001 10:18 PM: Trunks: If you have nothing to say don't post. Lots of people tried that argument to no avail. Zidane: "like the part in your response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he sucks." I didn't say that, read my post again (and don't make up things). "...I think you're just making that up" See, Sabin says he wins, wins and wins. If that was true, he wouldn't have been a hair from team US but he would have been team US main player. It's a fact and I'm not making it up. He talked a lot about how a great and undefeatable player he was, but he didn't make it to the Japs, so his tournament victories are nothing outside the US. I'm not saying h's a bad player, I'm saying that the rest of the world gives a fuck about what happens in the US. "I noticed that almost all of your arguments end up resorting to name-calling, or something else to that effect" In fact they don't. Read my latest reply to Sabin where I explained myself. "why do you think that everyone who shares Seth's views or defends him is a Seth follower?" Not everyone who shares his views, veryone who shares them and flame the one thinking different are. Besides, all that ass kissing is pathetic from my point of view. "The guy does make sense when he writes his editorials." Only one thing, read the "Balance in games" thread to see how senseless he is. "He brings up some valid points backed up by solid facts" Valid points???? Solid facts??? So saying "I think this way and if you think otherwise you're a scrub" is having solid facts??? "which is more than you can say for the rest of your arguments." As I posted before, if it's not a flame only thread post real solid facts based on in game hints. The bad thing here is that most people resort to saying that they talked to Riky, Vicky and Picky and they said I was wrong (which means crap to me, as you need another in game fact to prove me wrong). Posted by ImMature on 01:20:2001 10:53 PM: To Sabin: "Jinmaster is right, I'm not going to waste time trying to understand your point of views because we;;, it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you." And how do you know? You haven't even read what we posted "Most ppl on message boards are very hard-headed anyways." Hell yeah; Tell me about that "Anyhow, I'm just posting to let you two know that I didn't read your arguments, at all." You didn't read what we posted, yet you keep saying we're wrong. See what I mean? " I skimmed through your responses to me and they were mainly filled with the words "idiot, moron, fuck, shit, etc". Which shows me that you resorted to name-calling - which is lame." We only resort to name-calling when we got flamed first. Go and check " Just to let you guys know, I will never agree with anything you say about cheapness, ever, regardless or what you say," So what you mean is "Although I don't know what you guys are talking about cause I didn't read the argument, I disagree with you BEFOREHAND cause you're the villains here"? Nuff said man "So I ask you guys again: Why are you even here?" Well this is supposed to be a secret Ikari Warriors mission but what the hell? Cause fellow SNK fan & Capcom hater Yojimbo cleverly manipulated us into joining the "Dumb SNK lemmings" thread. Y'know, since both Ryoga & I think we're Ralf & Clark respectively we had no choice but to follow Commander Heidern's (aka Yojimbo) orders. Well now seriously, it was said thread the one that brought us here. Even the title was asking for a flamewar "First of all, I'm pretty sure noone likes you on SRK." Really?? I think I'm gonna start crying inconsolably or something "Secondly, I wouldn't find it fun to sit in front of my PC and flame ppl all day..it isn't fun at all." Oh have you tried then? "See? I "argued" without saying fuck you, you're a shithead, etc..without saying any meaningless insults." See? Neither did I. And I'm supposed to be the villain here, so KUDOS to myself To Beast of Fire: Ok man, no hard feelings at all. See, the brawl's over To Zidane: Just read my reply to Sabin, will ya? Posted by OrangeCat on 01:21:2001 08:15 AM: Actually I very much enjoy the presence of SNK enthusiasts that post here. Even though that most people would say WTF, and decide to say just F off, they do bring other POVs, many of them which we are not exposed to from an especially different view-point of game peference. You have to consider that this does indeed spice up these forums which has resulted into nothing much except for Dragonball Z battles, Comic book battles, who is/isn't the hottest, and constant repetitive questions of already "who is the best in such and such" although I am pleased to see the CvS is picking up in terms of discussion. Anyway, this is one person who welcomes these SNK fans, despite the obvious tension that both our sides causes. Orange Cat Posted by Zidane on 01:21:2001 02:07 PM: Ok. After reading your response - now I KNOW you're making stuff up for the sake of arguing. [QUOTE]Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Zidane: "like the part in your response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he sucks." I didn't say that, read my post again (and don't make up things). "...I think you're just making that up" See, Sabin says he wins, wins and wins. If that was true, he wouldn't have been a hair from team US but he would have been team US main player. It's a fact and I'm not making it up. He talked a lot about how a great and undefeatable player he was, but he didn't make it to the Japs, so his tournament victories are nothing outside the US. I'm not saying h's a bad player, I'm saying that the rest of the world gives a fuck about what happens in the US. Um. LOL. When did Sabin ever go online and say how much of a great and undefeatable player he was? Please. Show me a quote. I'd love to hear this. I haven't seen him talk smack on SRK once - unless it is calld for (or directed at him) I don't expect you to know this, but actualy, he was ASKED to be a part of Team USA (by John Choi) - but he refused (for some unknown reason.). There was a big discussion on SRK a while back about the lack of the "Team East Coast" being on Team USA (mainly, Sabin and Eddie). I think Jinmaster certainly knows what I'm talking about - I don't remember all the details, maybe he can clear it up. All I know is, I've never seen Sabin talk shit to someone on SRK unless it's called for - nor have I seen him brag about his tournament victories. Ever. There are tons of other little nuggets in this thread that I wanted to respond to, but unfortunately my time is short and I have to go. Until next time.. - Zidane, the lurking EC scrub Posted by Pungza on 01:21:2001 10:36 PM: Ofcourse cheapness exist look at MvsC2. no more comment on this. what a stupid question Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:21:2001 10:42 PM: I prefer to accept life as what is rather than what should be. There is nothing wrong with hoping for what should be but I live in the present. I must deal with the problems and issues that are before me. I must deal with reality rather than fantasy. I would love it if Marvel vs. Capcom 2 had perfect balance. I would absolutely love it. But that is not the case so I must deal with it. For people who hate the game so much, I would kindly advise you not to play the game then. And if you choose to play, please just play the game and let your hatred go. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:21:2001 10:51 PM: ImMature: Lol, where's Chi-Leona? I want a Leona. Zidane: Why don't you SRK people read the thread before entering into the discussion? It'll spare you a lot of flames, 'cause people gets sick of reposting things just because a new retard popped up asking something that was replied during the previous three pages. "When did Sabin ever go online and say how much of a great and undefeatable player he was? Please. Show me a quote." I'll grant you that wish: Sabin wrote:"You guys can complain all you want. While you're on srk debating what is "cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys". "I haven't seen him talk smack on SRK once" Well, why don't you try reading the threads? You'll find a lot of stuff there. "There was a big discussion on SRK a while back about the lack of the "Team East Coast" being on Team USA" That would do a lot of good to you. I mean it's too noticeable that only Cali players make team US (being the US such a big country with so many states in it). "All I know is, I've never seen Sabin talk shit to someone on SRK" He did it here, and I kept a serious profile in this thread until I had to repeat myself for the 100th time (so thank the idiots that don't read a thread and post crap). Sayonara Zidane, and if you want to reply in a thread, always remember to read the thread before posting crap. Posted by ImMature on 01:21:2001 11:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by OrangeCat: Actually I very much enjoy the presence of SNK enthusiasts that post here. Even though that most people would say WTF, and decide to say just F off, they do bring other POVs, many of them which we are not exposed to from an especially different view-point of game peference. You have to consider that this does indeed spice up these forums which has resulted into nothing much except for Dragonball Z battles, Comic book battles, who is/isn't the hottest, and constant repetitive questions of already "who is the best in such and such" although I am pleased to see the CvS is picking up in terms of discussion. Anyway, this is one person who welcomes these SNK fans, despite the obvious tension that both our sides causes. Orange Cat Hey man, thanks a lot for giving a chance to the supposed bad guys here aka the SNK purists. And BTW I agree with ya, this kinda arguments are surely most interesting than those typical and dreaded threads you can find in most fighting games forums these days, namely "Who would win in a fight between X and Y?!?", where both X and Y can be just ANYONE either real or fictional, from Pac-Man to Ted Bundy...That's getting old, now isn't it? --- "...And to believe that Billy Kane is stronger than Orochi is just dumb. Why would a simple British punk be more powerful than an ancient Japanese god?? If that's true though, then SNK sucks for letting an uglily designed character beat their most powerful stuff..." - Reply I received at MadMan's on my COMICAL essay about Billy's "supremacy" in the SNK universe Posted by ImMature on 01:21:2001 11:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: ImMature: Lol, where's Chi-Leona? I want a Leona. Yep I want a Leona too, but it can't be chi (as she hates Leona with a passion). Don't worry though, if chi ever comes here her role probably will be that of Fio from Metal Slug: she'd just come here in her TANK and blow up SRK.com to pieces Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:22:2001 12:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by Pungza: Ofcourse cheapness exist look at MvsC2. no more comment on this. what a stupid question Of course, you're an idiot who can't argue worth a shit, no more comment on this. At least most others say WHY they think cheapness exists. People like you aren't worth a damn. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ready to do or die?" "Victory is mine!" Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 12:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: To Ryoga: Hey, you better ignore that Kelomaniac guy, he just keeps posting all kinda crap he can think of in the hopes of earning even more HPs. How else do you think he got all those Nazi birds he has?? To Sabin: You're totally clueless, dude. As simple as that. I wonder what in the hell made me think otherwise before. I'll try to put it simply enough for you: Usa != The World, The World > USA. Get it AT FUCKING ONCE? There exist other areas, other players, other tournaments and definitely other oppinions different from those of the Cali top-tiers. But then again, OF COURSE, everybody else is wrong, isn't it? To Jinmaster: Well sorry 'bout that, but I've already noticed that every time a person start disagreeing with the "majority" here at SRK.com he's *invariably* flamed. No exceptions. And yeah, I know there is some cultural missundestanding between us but the weird thing is, in every fighting games-related forum I've been before, cheapness is a perfectly acceptable term, everybody knows what it means. Capcom fans I know in Real Life accept the existance of the concept as well. I wonder why here is different. When people here "discovered" that cheapness didn't exist and how come the rest of the people who use to play fighters (and I don't mean only SNK ones) haven't discovered it yet? You dip shit Sabin is not a Cali top tier his a NyC top tier! Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 12:52 AM: Ok men, there are things in the game that are cheap! Sentinel/BH Strider/Doom Cable AHVB Storm run away! Guard Break Doom/BH Cable/Storm Spiral wall of swords Ect. I use to think that way too, until I started to realize there where counters for every single one and until I said fuck it and I play the same way. Now I’m trying to help you understand although you consider it cheap people that play the game in high competition don’t! If you think is cheap why don’t you pick the same teams and run it on them? Let’s see if you can. Men, if you put as much effort in knocking down this tactics as you do to tell use that we are cheap, you might change your views on everything. Just one question. When you read the front page of shoryuken, why people that win the tourneys are using different teams? If you look at the Duc vs. Valle team why did they change teams? It’s all about counter attack and knowing what to do against a team that a person with lesser skills don’t! Read the Traps article, you can read al type of counters to the teams that you think are the cheapest! Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 06:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kelomaniac: You dip shit Sabin is not a Cali top tier his a NyC top tier! Whatever... Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 06:16 AM: Read Domination 101. Read the traps article. You are cheap cause you use stuff they cant counter because of their lack of skill? How would anyone get better if no one tried to do anything that was better then their opponent? Fucking scrubs. Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 06:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinsogood: Read Domination 101. Read the traps article. You are cheap cause you use stuff they cant counter because of their lack of skill? How would anyone get better if no one tried to do anything that was better then their opponent? Fucking scrubs. Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in Conan the Barbarian the movie... Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 07:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in Conan the Barbarian the movie... Fuck that shit. I believed that this shit wasnt cheap before I read Seth. But his shit is the only thing online about the topic of cheapness not written by a fucking idiot. Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 07:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinsogood: Fuck that shit. I believed that this shit wasnt cheap before I read Seth. But his shit is the only thing online about the topic of cheapness not written by a fucking idiot. Can you please try to argue without resorting to using words such as 'fuck' or 'shit', you motherfucking shit-for-brains? Do you suck Seth's cock with that dirty mouth of yours?? Heh no wonder why he lost 5/5 then... Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 07:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Can you please try to argue without resorting to using words such as 'fuck' or 'shit', you motherfucking shit-for-brains? Do you suck Seth's cock with that dirty mouth of yours?? Heh no wonder why he lost 5/5 then... Ooooh cant refute what I say so you insult me to cover up your ignorance. Classic Scrub tactic. Can you get any scrubbier? Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 07:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by Jinsogood: Can you get any scrubbier? Nope. Can YOU teach me the way? Posted by SithKilla on 01:22:2001 10:28 AM: Wow alot of posts here about nothing now. I have already given my reasons and philosophy on this subject so I will just make some counter points to what some people have said. Firstly people can say what they want but i know i can become good at whatever game i play and I still belive in the concept of cheapness. Every single game made my capcom has unbalanced details that makes alot of people call a person that uses these tactics cheap. Again to me the only time something is cheap to me is when you do something illegal to your advantage or your opponent has no chance of winning. If you hit my buttons while playing your damn right i am going to call you a cheezy bastard. If the game has been rigged for you to win again this is valid. But people have to realize that glitches and infinites are a part of the game. It is in no sense a good thing and to me is really unfair when sombody wins this way, but it is not cheap. That is why MvC2 is such a broken game. I have read alot of posts on this forum and see that people diss Kelomaniac and Beast of Fire alot here. I'll be honest I really don't agree with some of thier views on cheapness and i think they have been overly harsh on people sometimes. but what makes them different than half the people posting here is that they back up what they say with examples and legitimate reasons on why they feel that way. For that i give respect. Oh yeah I would ask if we could all be men and women about this topic and not insult people unecesarily. Especially mothers. This has nothing to do with the topic. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-21-2001).] Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 09:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in Conan the Barbarian the movie... I just have a question, WTF do you keep bringing Seth up? I don't even know who the fuck is Seth! IF we share the same opinion hey it's all good, but I'm not following nobody! Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 11:47 PM: Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community have "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still keeps believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic scrubs or something? Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:23:2001 12:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community have "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still keeps believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic scrubs or something? I wrote a big thing explaining why, then I erase it and put it into simple words! Lot's of peeps here face all the stuff that you say is cheap, they learn to play with it and against it, so they have a oppend mind to why is not cheap! People that don't face this thing un a regular basic and dosen't know how to face it or do it, will always think it's cheap! I try my best men! Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 01:03 AM: I can answer this. The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into a losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why the loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason as to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its simplicity, it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own mistakes, so the term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put into a losing situation they themselves dont know how to get out of. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community have "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still keeps believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic scrubs or something? Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:23:2001 01:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I can answer this. The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into a losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why the loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason as to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its simplicity, it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own mistakes, so the term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put into a losing situation they themselves dont know how to get out of. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the pshycology lesson ... I'll think twice before calling someone cheap. http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/Dantaunt2.gif It seems that nowadays people only win when they knock other people down. I suppose that's why I'm such a loser. Saikyo! Justin Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:23:2001 02:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I can answer this. The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into a losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why the loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason as to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its simplicity, it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own mistakes, so the term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put into a losing situation they themselves dont know how to get out of. Nice!!!! Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:23:2001 03:08 AM: Bah, it's like going back to the first page of this thread. ImMature: Well, I think boss would say it's Geese who's controlling Yojimbo so we can spread his word. The rest of the guys: See, a guy recently asked us for some cheap techniques in a KoF board and I gave him some good tricks. Now, does that mean I can play cheap? Yes. Why would someone learn something cheap? Because it's in the game and can be used against you. Does it mean you know how to counter? Absolutely yes. Now, if it's in the game and can be counter, why call it cheap? Because it takes little effort and gives you a big reward, so even if you know how to counter, cheap is cheap. Now Kamui, that was a bunch of bleh, mental tricks don't work on me (unless they come from boss). To be serious, defeat is defeat and I don't need to give it another name nor blame my opponent. Kelomaniac: "Lot's of peeps here face all the stuff that you say is cheap, they learn to play with it and against it, so they have a oppend mind to why is not cheap! People that don't face this thing un a regular basic and dosen't know how to face it or do it, will always think it's cheap!" Nah, they only learned to play with it, that's why they deny the existance of cheapness (or they should recognize they're either scrubs or cheapos for playing that way). If you read all the thread, you would get that we mentioned many times it's not a matter of "not being able to beat a pattern". "Believing in cheapness" doesn't mean "whinning when losing", it's accepting that certain patterns require a very small skill and trying to improve yourself without getting stuck in those paterns. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:23:2001 04:57 AM: I'll try to explain why a lot of people have problems with the word "cheap" (including myself). I'm not going to say that ImMature and O.Ryoga are wrong in their definition of cheap, I'm just going to give some of my personal experiences. I think the main reason the word cheap has such a bad reputation is because in most situations in which it is used (at least in my experience), it is yelled by a person who just lost badly to the assumed "cheapo" (this has happened to me a few times, and I brush it off). Now granted, I know several people who use this term, and they win their fair share. They use it in the same way that our SNK friends here do. However, the majority of the time I hear the word, it is coming from a hysterical person who just got his ass handed to him. Thus I associated the term with a type of whining and making up excuses for losing (mind you that this is my association, and not necessarily the given). Which is why I don't like the word. I have a feeling that several other participants on the board here probably had a similar experience. Anyway, that's my two cents. You don't have to take it to heart if you don't want to, it's just my opinion. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by ImMature on 01:23:2001 07:21 AM: To Kelomaniac & Kamui: So to put it simply (according to you 2), HELL YEAH, THE REST OF THE PLAYERS ON THIS WORLD ARE JUST MORONIC LOSERS/SCRUBS *INDEED*. And not only that, they're not even able to realize that they are, so they have no choice but to make up weird excuses about it, thus Cheapness was born. Well now let's think about this for a moment. Belief in Cheapness does exists worldwide among fighters players, and this is a fact. Hell, just look at Ryoga and me, for example. Do you think we are from the same area? We don't even live in the same CONTINENT. How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here haven't "discovered" that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet? How come that if you go to other fighers-related forums (eg Yasakani's, Gunsmith's, (gasp!) Vincent's, MadMan's, Shingo's, hell I'm registered even at Guardimpact although I don't really like Soul Calibur), you WON'T find people spreading that Supreme Truth?? BTW in most of these boards I'm talking about you do find posters from a lot of different areas in the world (unlike here at SRK.com, where about a 90% of the posters are from USA). If all those people (and I'm talking about a bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be good and experienced players among them) haven't realized it yet, I'll ask you again, how come you SRK.com guys are THE ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover such a "fact"?? Additionaly Kamui, I remember you posting about some Singaporean at Vincent's wielding the same argument. You called him "a smart one". You must think that the rest of the KOF comunity are just morons or something then... To Beast of Fire: Ok I hear you man. BTW, do you know what do I associate the "lack of belief in Cheapness" with? With the belief in the infallibility of programmers like myself. As long as flaws exist in ANY software, Cheapness does and will always exist IMHO, cause programmers are human beings too and not gods. Something pretty funny I've heard here at SRK.com, "If it is in the game is meant to be used". Sheah right, sure, and the same with any complex software. Now if anyone here has an old version of the Win NT 4.0 OS installed in his PC just perform a search for a file called "roll.exe" and execute it. Fear not, it'll "only" thrash his Windows registry and hence his whole operating system, so he'll hafta reinstall it again. Hey but Micro$oft did put that program there, so what's the problem then?? No, we programmers do NOT make any mistakes... To Ryoga: Heh it's gonna be real funny when the co-workers of this O. Rugal cheapo we helped finally discover how to unlock the secret chars in '99 DM... Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 09:28 AM: "How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here haven't "discovered" that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet?" Becuase its easier to have something to blame for your own weaknesses. Its the human thing to do ofcourse. My belief is the human race is stubborn and irrational, so mental safe guards as simple as something to blame are easier than blaming yourself, which can ether lead to self improvement or depression. I would deffinatly know as i acted exactly like you did 2 years ago. "If all those people (and I'm talking about a bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be good and experienced players among them" First off the few truly experienced players i have talked too do believe very much that you should do everything in your power to win thats within the already set rules of the game. This has been explained by many good KOF players as well. Second, even if they are good players, that deosnt mean there not irrational. They probably have been beaten by cheese earlier in there fighting game career and have already came up with there own very common conclusion that everybody else losing does, nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics. "THE ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover such a "fact"??" I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting at Orochinagi.com, cuase they dont. Theres nobody remotely well known posting on the site that would have enough knowledge of the game to know whats right and wrong. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: To Kelomaniac & Kamui: So to put it simply (according to you 2), HELL YEAH, THE REST OF THE PLAYERS ON THIS WORLD ARE JUST MORONIC LOSERS/SCRUBS *INDEED*. And not only that, they're not even able to realize that they are, so they have no choice but to make up weird excuses about it, thus Cheapness was born. Well now let's think about this for a moment. Belief in Cheapness does exists worldwide among fighters players, and this is a fact. Hell, just look at Ryoga and me, for example. Do you think we are from the same area? We don't even live in the same CONTINENT. How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here haven't "discovered" that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet? How come that if you go to other fighers-related forums (eg Yasakani's, Gunsmith's, (gasp!) Vincent's, MadMan's, Shingo's, hell I'm registered even at Guardimpact although I don't really like Soul Calibur), you WON'T find people spreading that Supreme Truth?? BTW in most of these boards I'm talking about you do find posters from a lot of different areas in the world (unlike here at SRK.com, where about a 90% of the posters are from USA). If all those people (and I'm talking about a bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be good and experienced players among them) haven't realized it yet, I'll ask you again, how come you SRK.com guys are THE ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover such a "fact"?? Additionaly Kamui, I remember you posting about some Singaporean at Vincent's wielding the same argument. You called him "a smart one". You must think that the rest of the KOF comunity are just morons or something then... To Beast of Fire: Ok I hear you man. BTW, do you know what do I associate the "lack of belief in Cheapness" with? With the belief in the infallibility of programmers like myself. As long as flaws exist in ANY software, Cheapness does and will always exist IMHO, cause programmers are human beings too and not gods. Something pretty funny I've heard here at SRK.com, "If it is in the game is meant to be used". Sheah right, sure, and the same with any complex software. Now if anyone here has an old version of the Win NT 4.0 OS installed in his PC just perform a search for a file called "roll.exe" and execute it. Fear not, it'll "only" thrash his Windows registry and hence his whole operating system, so he'll hafta reinstall it again. Hey but Micro$oft did put that program there, so what's the problem then?? No, we programmers do NOT make any mistakes... To Ryoga: Heh it's gonna be real funny when the co-workers of this O. Rugal cheapo we helped finally discover how to unlock the secret chars in '99 DM... Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:23:2001 10:03 PM: Kamui: "Becuase its easier to have..." Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world and they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said. "nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics" Nope, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason why people call certain things cheap. Read my prior post. "I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting" See: Nmber one: Tourneys are generally held in Asia. Nmber two: no one makes a big fuzz about tourneys. Nmber three: not everyone in Asia speaks in English nor cares about talking to foreigners. Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks "cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom community with luck). ImMature: Hell, it will be funny whenever he faces O.Rugal. Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 10:16 PM: "Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world and they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said." Bleh? You completely ignored what i said. It deosnt matter if there top players or not, there human, and humans like to use excuses to prtect there emotions. 'nuff said :/ "Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks "cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom community with luck)." Only SRK people? Talk to the japanese, they will tell you the same thing i am, and we all know the japanese own at both SF and KOF. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Kamui: "Becuase its easier to have..." Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world and they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said. "nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics" Nope, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason why people call certain things cheap. Read my prior post. "I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting" See: Nmber one: Tourneys are generally held in Asia. Nmber two: no one makes a big fuzz about tourneys. Nmber three: not everyone in Asia speaks in English nor cares about talking to foreigners. Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks "cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom community with luck). ImMature: Hell, it will be funny whenever he faces O.Rugal. Posted by ImMature on 01:23:2001 11:50 PM: Ok Kamui, and now the REVERSAL for I was expecting something like this, y'know? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Becuase its easier to have something to blame for your own weaknesses. Its the human thing to do ofcourse. Of course it is. But still, you haven't answered my question yet: WHY THE SRK.COM POSTERS ARE *NOT* LIKE THIS?? It's like, are you guys Xmen: Children of the Atom or something and therefore not part of the human race but "Homo Superiors" instead? This is what I wanna know quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I would deffinatly know as i acted exactly like you did 2 years ago. Uh I din't get what you mean. Care to ellaborate? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: First off the few truly experienced players i have talked too do believe very much that you should do everything in your power to win thats within the already set rules of the game. This has been explained by many good KOF players as well. First off, I've ALREADY pointed that out several times and it in itself has NOTHING to do with the non-existance of Cheapness. You hafta do everything that it takes in order to win (and this not necessarily implies being cheap), all right everybody agrees on this. But how do you come to the conclussion that this implies that Cheapness doesn't exist?? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Second, even if they are good players, that deosnt mean there not irrational. They probably have been beaten by cheese earlier in there fighting game career and have already came up with there own very common conclusion that everybody else losing does, nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics. Second, and I repeat, pretty much unlike this pathetic bunch of humans we are, you SRK.com super-race of SFers have came to a different conclussion by means of divine Revelation or something. Glory to you dudes quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting at Orochinagi.com, cuase they dont. So? The Japanese & HKese KOFer do have their own bbs. Are you saying perhaps that ONLY tourney winners have the possibility to understand fighters and that the rest of the players have to believe what they say without hessitation? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Theres nobody remotely well known posting on the site that would have enough knowledge of the game to know whats right and wrong. Frankly Kamui, I don't think you yourself have enough knowledge of KOF to deserve to judge such a thing. There are people at ON.com who know KOF inside and out, in case you haven't noticed yet... --- Conclussion: There is something funnier than to play videogames; to amuse you fellow KOFers at your local arcade telling how a bunch of American dudes have discovered that EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong. You can even rebuke all cheapos there telling 'em things like "Oh dude shut up; You don't even exist". Plus if you have the luck to know people in Real Life whose line of thinking is pretty much like Yojimbo's, you better go & mention several times that you read all this in a CAPCOM bbs, for even more comical effect... Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 12:43 AM: "Of course it is. But still, you haven't answered my question yet: WHY THE SRK.COM POSTERS ARE *NOT* LIKE THIS?? It's like, are you guys Xmen: Children of the Atom or something and therefore not part of the human race but "Homo Superiors" instead? This is what I wanna know" Aahhh...ok. Well first off as you have noticed a good portion of the people of this forum worship anything the more popular players have to say. Seth Killian bieng one of these players is popular, but his attitude stinks, thus a lot of people dont like him as much as you think they do. However, fact is he has brought up a few good points and when somebody gives you a good well thought out answer as to why you may be wrong, you tend to listen, and eventually it sinks in and makes sense. Frankly he makes a lot of sense. This is why most people at SRK think alike, Seth's post probably. I myself came to believe the way i do after being beaten by a friend enough times by his sapposedly cheap tactics(Mark Rygoyski). My thought process was just like you and Ryoga's, so i thought he was a scrub, even though he was beating me. I happen to enter a small(and crappy)tourney, Mark was there, i eventually had to play against Mark, and i won the first time around. However later in that tourney he had come back from his loss and and made his way to play me again in the finals. He won, he threw me too death, i ate every one. After his loss he began to realize what he had to do to beat me. He knew my weakness after the first game, he saw exactly what i would be weak to and he exploited it to its fullest. It showed that in the end, as simple as the tactic was, i wasnt prepared for it, and he knew, and i got owned. I realized how much of a better player than me he really was, something as simple as him adapting was good enough for me. Thats when my "SRK" thought process began for myself. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok Kamui, and now the REVERSAL for I was expecting something like this, y'know? Frankly Kamui, I don't think you yourself have enough knowledge of KOF to deserve to judge such a thing. There are people at ON.com who know KOF inside and out, in case you haven't noticed yet... --- Conclussion: There is something funnier than to play videogames; to amuse you fellow KOFers at your local arcade telling how a bunch of American dudes have discovered that EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong. You can even rebuke all cheapos there telling 'em things like "Oh dude shut up; You don't even exist". Plus if you have the luck to know people in Real Life whose line of thinking is pretty much like Yojimbo's, you better go & mention several times that you read all this in a CAPCOM bbs, for even more comical effect... [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 04:44 AM: Heh, this is becoming less funny as I'm repeating myself to boreness, but I will keep doing so. I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P "Only SRK people?" Yeap, only SRK people. I've never seen a jap talking about that (and I don't think you did that either). Even though Hong Kong people do believe it. Now what are they just a bunch of whinning scrubs? Did they became one of the strongest countries in a difficult game as KoF just by crying cheap? Guess again pal, they just learned what was cheap, trained to overcome it and the learned new techniques. On the other hand people at SRK learned what was cheap and trained to rely on it 'cause if it's working, why bother learning something else? "fact is he has brought up a few good points" Nah, he just pushes the opponents to the scrub side so his word reigns supreme. "threw me too death, and i ate every one." Some people is just practical, that technique was cheap but it worked on you. Now that meant that you sucked at that match and didn't have a good level by that time. Plain and simple as that. He was cheap and effective, but his effectiveness doesn't reduce the cheap factor. BTW, you're skipping ImMature's best points which I think is crap. Posted by OrangeCat on 01:24:2001 06:42 AM: H there guys, me again. The guy who posted the list of cheapness? Well I am here to enact my semi promise and hope to refine my list of cheapness. Oh yeah to ImMature who did "snip the rest of sarcastic remark, really to some degree it wasn't sarcastic. Also in a sense I did meant what I did say, but also after learning that the rest of the world hasn't heard/believe in said article, that to keep a more open mind. In this case I want to create a "Cheapness" list that is either A) Suited for both ways of the road, a list that "scrubs" *according to SRK people who believe in the article* who cry out things that are cheap....and a "True" list of cheapness that should be avoided at all cost by any player. B) Two lists, just in case neither of ye can agree on what consistutes as cheap...or cries from SRK type scrubs. I am somewhat serious about this project since the big topic of cheapness is a large and diverse one, someobdy should really draw the line, as of now, on what is/isn't cheap. All people are welcome to contribute, if anyone wants to see the list, it is in either "Dumb SNK Lemmings" *semi revised to constitue SNK characters, very poorly I might add* or the topic "Honor among scrubs" or something to that degree. Gumpskily, what I expect is not really the definition of cheap, but more of specific techniques, moves, characters, and certain characteristics of other games that can add to said list. Orange Cat [This message has been edited by OrangeCat (edited 01-23-2001).] Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 07:03 AM: "I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P" Ugh, well i just tried to post a very long answer twice and both times the were somehow deleted, so in short, yes it has everything to do with someone blamming a lost on others as it is the root of your anger towards "Cheapness", guaranteed, not becuase the person deosnt fit YOUR deffinition of a good player. And cheapness does exist, but not in the form your thinking of. TRUE cheapness isnt used by players. Ive never seen anybody using a TRUE boss character, or using a glitch to gain a win, have you? If you have then there must be better players in my area than in yours. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Heh, this is becoming less funny as I'm repeating myself to boreness, but I will keep doing so. I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P "Only SRK people?" Yeap, only SRK people. I've never seen a jap talking about that (and I don't think you did that either). Even though Hong Kong people do believe it. Now what are they just a bunch of whinning scrubs? Did they became one of the strongest countries in a difficult game as KoF just by crying cheap? Guess again pal, they just learned what was cheap, trained to overcome it and the learned new techniques. On the other hand people at SRK learned what was cheap and trained to rely on it 'cause if it's working, why bother learning something else? "fact is he has brought up a few good points" Nah, he just pushes the opponents to the scrub side so his word reigns supreme. "threw me too death, and i ate every one." Some people is just practical, that technique was cheap but it worked on you. Now that meant that you sucked at that match and didn't have a good level by that time. Plain and simple as that. He was cheap and effective, but his effectiveness doesn't reduce the cheap factor. BTW, you're skipping ImMature's best points which I think is crap. [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).] [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 01:24:2001 08:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by OrangeCat: Oh yeah to ImMature who did "snip the rest of sarcastic remark, really to some degree it wasn't sarcastic. Dude if I didn't fall for it the 1st time, what makes you think I'm gonna buy it now? quote: Originally posted by OrangeCat: A) Suited for both ways of the road, a list that "scrubs" *according to SRK people who believe in the article* who cry out things that are cheap.... A list of things scrubs may base their excuses on when losing? Just EVERYTHING. That's why, unless you're a sociology major or something, you shouldn't really care that much about scrubs quote: Originally posted by OrangeCat: and a "True" list of cheapness that should be avoided at all cost by any player. Avoided at all cost? Why, if a body wanna (or NEEDS to) play cheaply, it's his personal choice. Oh well, if you're really serious on this (which I doubt) go back to the Dumb SNK Lemmings thread and look for my post about what I consider to be cheap in KOF. And I'll be expecting a good parody of it on the next days BTW Posted by ImMature on 01:24:2001 08:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Frankly he makes a lot of sense. This is why most people at SRK think alike, Seth's post probably. Ok so I hope this answers Kelo's question on why I keep bringing up Seth. BTW Seth seems to be a pretty smart person, no doubt about it, even though if I strongly disagree with his views quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I myself came to believe the way i do after being beaten by a friend enough times by his sapposedly cheap tactics(Mark Rygoyski). My thought process was just like you and Ryoga's, so i thought he was a scrub, even though he was beating me. I happen to enter a small(and crappy)tourney, Mark was there, i eventually had to play against Mark, and i won the first time around. However later in that tourney he had come back from his loss and and made his way to play me again in the finals. He won, he threw me too death, i ate every one. After his loss he began to realize what he had to do to beat me. He knew my weakness after the first game, he saw exactly what i would be weak to and he exploited it to its fullest. It showed that in the end, as simple as the tactic was, i wasnt prepared for it, and he knew, and i got owned. I realized how much of a better player than me he really was, something as simple as him adapting was good enough for me. Thats when my "SRK" thought process began for myself. What exactly did you learn from that? a) That you have to adapt yourself so you won't get beat by the same tactic over & over again (which is certainly true) b) That cheap patterns may beat players who don't know how to counter/escape from 'em (which is true again) c) That the one who wins the match is the best player of the 2 INDEED (which then again, it's true as well) And what does any of these things has to do with the existance or not of Cheapness? Care to explain? Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 09:54 AM: Again, i was only showing the state of mind your in right now, which I used to be in, and the fact that you think everybody on SRK thinks they way they becuase of Seth even though thats not how my belief gained weight. Ugh, i dont care about the existance of cheapness, YOUR deffinition of what is cheap is what bothers me. It does exist, but not in the same sense your thinking of. Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play yourself. I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its obvious if they play like so you think there cheap correct? quote: Originally posted by ImMature: What exactly did you learn from that? a) That you have to adapt yourself so you won't get beat by the same tactic over & over again (which is certainly true) b) That cheap patterns may beat players who don't know how to counter/escape from 'em (which is true again) c) That the one who wins the match is the best player of the 2 INDEED (which then again, it's true as well) And what does any of these things has to do with the existance or not of Cheapness? Care to explain? Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 05:58 PM: Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that (even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will think you're talking seriously). Kamui: "yes it has everything to do with someone blamming a lost on others" Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back up with something better. "have you?" Yes. "If you have then there must be better players in my area than in yours." Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in their teams. "i dont care about the existance of cheapness" Errrmmm...then what are we discussing about? "Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play yourself." If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same, but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to me. If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle (rendering Yuri useless). "I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its obvious if they play like so you think there cheap correct?" Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe) distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in all suicidal attack. Posted by ej_333 on 01:24:2001 08:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle (rendering Yuri useless). Well, I don't play CvS much, but I think EX Yuri is just outmatched against Kim, and I don't think there was much Chen could do. Yuri can't poke on the ground, because Kim's sweep reaches farther than hers. I think this especially hurts her, because she relies on doing a lot of blocked sweep into air fireball. She can't jump, because Kim's Down Fierce will kick her out of it (Valle used that kick to knock Chen out of the air a lot). The rest of Yuri's special moves are useless for offense (what does she have, that running blockable grab and that reflection thing?). All Yuri can do against Kim is waste time and charge meter, I guess. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 09:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by ej_333: Well, I don't play CvS much, but I think EX Yuri is just outmatched against Kim, and I don't think there was much Chen could do. Yuri can't poke on the ground, because Kim's sweep reaches farther than hers. I think this especially hurts her, because she relies on doing a lot of blocked sweep into air fireball. She can't jump, because Kim's Down Fierce will kick her out of it (Valle used that kick to knock Chen out of the air a lot). The rest of Yuri's special moves are useless for offense (what does she have, that running blockable grab and that reflection thing?). All Yuri can do against Kim is waste time and charge meter, I guess. Yuri can be outmatched easily if you try to beat Kim in a close combat. Yuri will never beat Kim in the kicking department and certainly won't land a jump in kick on him. An Ex-Yuri player should roll over the place in an attempt to knock Kim off and then gain space between them to take advantage of her long range capabilities. Chen played all the time at a close range and when he got some space between him and Valle, he wasted it with either a jump in kick or a downward fireball that renders Yuri open to anything. The main technique with Ex-Yuri is making some space between her and the other character and then throw a fireball (the normal one) to force the opponent to o a move that will leave him open to Yuri's remaining attacks. Posted by SithKilla on 01:25:2001 12:24 AM: the moderator needs to cut the second half of these posts and start from like page 2 [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:25:2001 12:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: the moderator needs to cut the second half of these posts and start from like page 2 Heh, that's a classical whinning in BBSs. When you have been proven wrong on a discussion, you call a moderator to either delete or lock the thread. Which is very gay. quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. This is a discussion about "cheapness" not about excuses. If you can't get it, then you should read the thread (at least once). Now, if after reading the thread you still don't get it, then I'll have to give you the sad news that you're a retard. Posted by ej_333 on 01:25:2001 02:08 AM: I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a lot of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim seemed to just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from there. And why would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls like he does to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them. I don't know much about CvS tactics (I barely play the game), but Chen seems to use Yuri pretty well. His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a bad matchup. You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Yuri can be outmatched easily if you try to beat Kim in a close combat. Yuri will never beat Kim in the kicking department and certainly won't land a jump in kick on him. An Ex-Yuri player should roll over the place in an attempt to knock Kim off and then gain space between them to take advantage of her long range capabilities. Chen played all the time at a close range and when he got some space between him and Valle, he wasted it with either a jump in kick or a downward fireball that renders Yuri open to anything. The main technique with Ex-Yuri is making some space between her and the other character and then throw a fireball (the normal one) to force the opponent to o a move that will leave him open to Yuri's remaining attacks. Posted by Kamui on 01:25:2001 02:52 AM: "Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back up with something better." Oh i read the entire thread, your just missing the point. It deosnt matter if there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life they lost to someone bieng cheap(everyone does at least once), hence the reason why they complain about it today. Not becuase of this great honor you talk about. Dramatic experiences stick with you :P You mention players that dont lose too cheapness still complain about it, even though they can beat it easily. MANY MANY MANY people think Joe is a cheap striker. Many player refuse to use him with this ideal of "honor" floating around in there heads. If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they complain about him? Theres just no reason to complain about cheapness unless your losing to it, or lost to it. As a striker it automatically balances self out with the loss of striker bombs, your gonna blow every bomb doing 1 combo on 1 person with Joe. Yet, people are still whining about him even today....It seems like these players you talk about are mad not becuase of the lack of skilled play but the lack people playing the way they want them too. Nobody is aloud to be original anymore... "Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in their teams." Ummm...Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general? Whats the difference? I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that....It probably wasnt even in a tourny situation. Oh but wait, your players have no trouble beating Rugal right? Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any trouble beating him??? "If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same, but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to me. If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle (rendering Yuri useless)." Do you not see the difference in skill level here? Ex Yuri cant win at a close range, so Valle stayed close. Valle is apparently the perfect zoner, and although you dont see it as skill(apparently to you a combo is, which BTW there isnt a combo known to man i COULDNT do, but i cant zone worth a shit)there is a lot of timing and thought that goes into that foot work that Valle uses. "Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe) distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in all suicidal attack" Than whats the problem with it? quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that (even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will think you're talking seriously). Kamui: "yes it has everything to do with someone blamming a lost on others" Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back up with something better. "have you?" Yes. "If you have then there must be better players in my area than in yours." Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in their teams. "i dont care about the existance of cheapness" Errrmmm...then what are we discussing about? "Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play yourself." If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same, but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to me. If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle (rendering Yuri useless). "I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its obvious if they play like so you think there cheap correct?" Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe) distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in all suicidal attack. Posted by OrangeCat on 01:25:2001 04:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: [B]Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that (even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will think you're talking seriously). [B] Actually I am serious. It's just that there is all this idea of debating of whether cheapness exists or not that there isn't a definative reference to it. Might as well help out not only the KOF or Capcom communities but the whole of the fighter community. Of course if you decide not to, I understand. You have a privelage not to trust me at all and I'm not gonna go dilly dally for someone who has that right to get to trust me. Hey who knows, maybe once I get some kinda list up, that can prove to you how serious I am about it. Well good debating and have a nice day. Orange Cat Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:25:2001 06:23 PM: ej_333: "I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a lot of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim seemed to just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from there." Yup, he got himself cornered where Yuri has no chance. And of course, Valle did the right thing as Kim is a close range character while Ex-Yuri is a long range one. "And why would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls like he does to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them." It depends on when Chen rolls. You may have to eat a bit of pressure to find the right spot, but trying to fight at that range was suicidal. And even though Chen knew Ex-Yuri was useless, he chosen her like three times to pit against Valle's Kim (that was ridiculous). "Chen seems to use Yuri pretty well" Hmmm, maybe he can use the character better under no tournament pressure, but I don't know, I don't know anything about him beyond those matches and I surely don't know what he was thinking during that match. "His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a bad matchup." Sure one can beat lots of people with a character like Yuri, but he failed strategically during that match. "You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion." Of course it is, I forgot to mark it was my personal opinion. "It deosnt matter if there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life they lost to someone bieng cheap" Maybe that happened to some of them, but there shouldn't be a problem right now, even though they stick to that rule 'cause they know if they start using it they may become dependant and loose their ability. Besides, some people just took those rules 'cause those were the rules in their arcades when they started playing. "If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they complain about him?" Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter a round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD (two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles + button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think that is high level gameplay. "Nobody is aloud to be original anymore..." Tell me what is the original thing with that. Now if you use Joe for other purpouses than infinites, then props to you. "Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general?" What I meant was that most people don't use cheap tactics or characters, but that doesn't mean nobody does, so you see cheapness. "I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that" They do, you're just ASSuming based in your own missunderstanding. "It probably wasnt even in a tourny situation." I guess most of us give a fuck about tourneys, one knows where competition is and people play with all they have every time. "Oh but wait, your players have no trouble beating Rugal right?" Point 1, I stated it was the KoF'95 days (you know KoF'95 happened in 1995, right?), Point 2 I don't know about the level those days and finally Point 3 I never said they played and succeeded. "Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any trouble beating him???" You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has a big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap, no matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone mentioned that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I think)was banned from some tournaments, why would that happen? "and although you dont see it as skill" Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that btw, happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied with this all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance. "Than whats the problem with it?" The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing else) is something that bores people to death and require little ability. Posted by Kamui on 01:25:2001 07:33 PM: "Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter a round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD (two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles + button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think that is high level gameplay." UGH, IT IS NOT A GLITCH. Look up the definition of a glitch PLEASE. From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING. Its funny, You can tell who the more experienced players are on orochinagi.com as the ones who dont mind people using Joe understand what you do lose for using him, you only have so many striker bombs.......Theres an obvious balance, to using him, but all the scrubs see is his apparant "cheapness". "You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has a big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap, no matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone mentioned that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I think)was banned from some tournaments, why would that happen?" See thats the thing i understand hes an overbearing character, but, you mentioned the players in your area bieng able to beat cheapness, but still be able comment on how they play, yet, Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him....Now its been my experience that good players have to be beaten continously to thus see how effective a character like Rugal is to know why and when he started bieng cheap.... "Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that btw, happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied with this all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance." No instead you said something along the lines of"i wouldnt call it skilled play" and "if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh", which means the same thing. Dont remember? Go check your posts in the "Dumb SNK lemmings thread".... "The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing else) is something that bores people to death and require little ability." Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately....In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct? The guy who won the tourney played a turtle K' and Kula. Seems like he was OWNING everybody there with such "unskilled" tactics. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: ej_333: "I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a lot of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim seemed to just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from there." Yup, he got himself cornered where Yuri has no chance. And of course, Valle did the right thing as Kim is a close range character while Ex-Yuri is a long range one. "And why would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls like he does to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them." It depends on when Chen rolls. You may have to eat a bit of pressure to find the right spot, but trying to fight at that range was suicidal. And even though Chen knew Ex-Yuri was useless, he chosen her like three times to pit against Valle's Kim (that was ridiculous). "Chen seems to use Yuri pretty well" Hmmm, maybe he can use the character better under no tournament pressure, but I don't know, I don't know anything about him beyond those matches and I surely don't know what he was thinking during that match. "His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a bad matchup." Sure one can beat lots of people with a character like Yuri, but he failed strategically during that match. "You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion." Of course it is, I forgot to mark it was my personal opinion. "It deosnt matter if there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life they lost to someone bieng cheap" Maybe that happened to some of them, but there shouldn't be a problem right now, even though they stick to that rule 'cause they know if they start using it they may become dependant and loose their ability. Besides, some people just took those rules 'cause those were the rules in their arcades when they started playing. "If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they complain about him?" Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter a round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD (two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles + button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think that is high level gameplay. "Nobody is aloud to be original anymore..." Tell me what is the original thing with that. Now if you use Joe for other purpouses than infinites, then props to you. "Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general?" What I meant was that most people don't use cheap tactics or characters, but that doesn't mean nobody does, so you see cheapness. "I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that" They do, you're just ASSuming based in your own missunderstanding. "It probably wasnt even in a tourny situation." I guess most of us give a fuck about tourneys, one knows where competition is and people play with all they have every time. "Oh but wait, your players have no trouble beating Rugal right?" Point 1, I stated it was the KoF'95 days (you know KoF'95 happened in 1995, right?), Point 2 I don't know about the level those days and finally Point 3 I never said they played and succeeded. "Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any trouble beating him???" You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has a big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap, no matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone mentioned that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I think)was banned from some tournaments, why would that happen? "and although you dont see it as skill" Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that btw, happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied with this all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance. "Than whats the problem with it?" The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing else) is something that bores people to death and require little ability. [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-25-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 01:25:2001 09:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: UGH, IT IS NOT A GLITCH. Look up the definition of a glitch PLEASE. From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING. Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet but anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember, I'm no native English speaker) quote: Originally posted by Kamui: See thats the thing i understand hes an overbearing character, but, you mentioned the players in your area bieng able to beat cheapness, but still be able comment on how they play, yet, Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him.... Look Kamui, for the last time: What we're trying to say is that Cheapness does exist, REGARDLESS of players getting owned by it or not. Let me explain myself on this with one of my (retarded) analogies: Let's imagine someone comes & tells you some BS. You either believe him or not (it's irrelevant). But still lying does exist indeed, doesn't it? Regardless of if it worked on you or not...Sorry but it's the best analogy I can think of at the moment (which it's very pathetic of me in itself, I'll give you that) quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately....In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct? The guy who won the tourney played a turtle K' and Kula. Seems like he was OWNING everybody there with such "unskilled" tactics. Can you please post where can I download those videos (and the Valle vs Chen ones) from? I haven't seen 'em yet Posted by Gamer X on 01:26:2001 01:52 AM: Here we go with the dumb ass topic of "Cheapness" again. Does it exist? Maybe, depends on who you ask. Do I think it exist? Of course. I have use cheap combos, took advantage of bugs in the game (I love using the Gambit glich and let the time run out). If you listen to some guy who has no life, is good at some old Street Fighter game that nobody plays anymore and bases everthing on tournement players and have the nerve to call everybody scrubs cause he wants some attention than of course there is no such thing as cheapness. After all they are just real good at being real lazy thats all. You can fuse and fight this issue until your face turn blue and neither side is going to gain any ground on this issue so all I have to say to this is read the quote. Just play the damn game and quit cring. Posted by Shingro on 01:26:2001 02:00 AM: That's what I say though with a different tack... It's all about the actual fight, if a robot could do your entire game... what's the point? Why'd you even put the $.50 in in the first place? Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:26:2001 02:28 AM: "From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING." So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy. "you only have so many striker bombs." Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs. "but still be able comment on how they play" I don't need to play everyday against Rugal to remember his DP takes out between 60% nd 70% life bar. Guess I'm gifted with something called memory. Oh, and the machine did that move on me the first time I got to play him. "Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him" How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort. "Now its been my experience that good players have to be beaten continously to thus see how effective a character like Rugal is to know why and when he started bieng cheap" Nope, just loose more than half lifebar against a single move that is not a super and you will now a character is cheap (unless he has a move that is almost imposible to perform). "i wouldnt call it skilled play" The repetition of basic moves isn't, which is what most people was commenting. I didn't see the video by that time, but now I did (for ImMature, they are in the multimedia section, don't use GoZilla or you won't be able to download them). "if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh" Nope, I was never that nationalistic. I may have said that that pattern wouldn't work against the japs or something along those lines. "Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately" Nope, I haven't played a turtle for a long time. "In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct?" Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to tell me where that tourney was being held? Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 05:51 AM: "So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy." I thought you knew what you were talking about when it came to KOF, i guess i was wrong. First off, Joe isnt the only character that picks them off the ground Dong Hwan and a few others do it too. Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also, and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while there on the ground as normal hits wont do it(there was a ground throw bug,but thats a totally different matter). It is impossible for it to be on accident, not when the engine already includes them with VERY few attacks as is. They would have to manually assign the properties to do it as the werent included in the KOF engine normally(if it did all attack would hit them on the ground). It was not a flaw in programming PERIOD. "Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs." Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF player who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if they do it while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and nail them. Go ahead and taunt. "How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort." I know hes a "cheap" character, point is i dont think the players you talk about are as good as you say as nobody complains when somethings not hurting them. "Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to tell me where that tourney was being held?" Be my guest, go here: www.white-tower.net Goto the tourney video section and download the bottom one(Kula) and the other game with the K' i dont exactly remember which, just check all of them. It says where the tourney was held on the site. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING." So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy. "you only have so many striker bombs." Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs. "but still be able comment on how they play" I don't need to play everyday against Rugal to remember his DP takes out between 60% nd 70% life bar. Guess I'm gifted with something called memory. Oh, and the machine did that move on me the first time I got to play him. "Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him" How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort. "Now its been my experience that good players have to be beaten continously to thus see how effective a character like Rugal is to know why and when he started bieng cheap" Nope, just loose more than half lifebar against a single move that is not a super and you will now a character is cheap (unless he has a move that is almost imposible to perform). "i wouldnt call it skilled play" The repetition of basic moves isn't, which is what most people was commenting. I didn't see the video by that time, but now I did (for ImMature, they are in the multimedia section, don't use GoZilla or you won't be able to download them). "if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh" Nope, I was never that nationalistic. I may have said that that pattern wouldn't work against the japs or something along those lines. "Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately" Nope, I haven't played a turtle for a long time. "In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct?" Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to tell me where that tourney was being held? [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-25-2001).] Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 06:06 AM: "Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet but anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember, I'm no native English speaker)" A bug is something the programmers missed, usually a combination of lines of code that would usually rarely happen, becuase they didnt realize it could hurt something if the combination, this usualy results in a: Glitch, which is the actual affect from the bug. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Can you please post where can I download those videos (and the Valle vs Chen ones) from? I haven't seen 'em yet Posted by SummErs on 01:26:2001 08:51 AM: Regarding Kof2000 When it first came out, I loved it...it was fast paced...the use of strikers at any moment was exciting for me.... But I stopped playing the game when they discovered the first 'bug'(we assumed it was a bug) Then we realised it's no bug, cause every striker can do it.... Everybody was abusing it one way or the other... it started with Joe as the cheap striker...then vanessa, Then Seth as a striker was used as defensive play, meaning the guy waits for the opponent to jump in, calls seth out the wham bam thank you seth. And we found more ridiculous combos.... Was it cheap? We felt so! But we then learnt how to not be 'hit' by the striker... that was the main thing we learnt... So, any cheap(depending on each's opinion) tactics or cheap combos can be overcomed with the right thinking. But a point many missed is, Yes, things such as this makes the game 'not fun'. Posted by PK on 01:26:2001 10:14 AM: cheap? nah... no such thing... for the longest time i faught with honor but was just a South side thing... i think if you are slow enough (and sometimes dumb enough) to get thrown then that is your fault. Infinites are hard to do and not as easy as you say... and the honda/ryu trap: what the hell are you still doing playing the SF2WW? man... they fixed it.. get over it.. i was battling a friend at UH gameroom just the other day, i had him in a Vism, but didn't have enough to beat him... so i followed a red fb and threw him... cheap? nah... i beat him... strait up... he agrees... just deal with it... handle your business... Posted by CykoClops on 01:26:2001 02:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: "Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet but anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember, I'm no native English speaker)" A bug is something the programmers missed, usually a combination of lines of code that would usually rarely happen, becuase they didnt realize it could hurt something if the combination, this usualy results in a: Glitch, which is the actual affect from the bug. yeah i don't see a difference between the two things so i guess a bug=glitch http://home.iprimus.com.au/dittmanshum/cykoclops.gif Posted by CykoClops on 01:26:2001 03:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mr_Geese: I like to play cheap and I do not mind cheapness. It is better than pretending to be good and you are not, so I have to play cheap and bust you up to show you how weak you are. (*^_^*) hahahahaha Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:26:2001 05:06 PM: "Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also" Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs what screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into every possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if Dong striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him), then he's cheap, I don't see your point. "and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while there on the ground as normal hits wont do it" Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that the strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I mean, the striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and the system programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a small test, but when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete program must work as a whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working, then it's buggy. "Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF player who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if they do it while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and nail them. Go ahead and taunt." After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully done. And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we will start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is, it can be done. "I know hes a "cheap" character" Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character, which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness. "point is i dont think the players you talk about are as good as you say as nobody complains when somethings not hurting them." Huh, It must have hurted them the first couple of times they tried to beat the machine, and a little common sense tells you it shouldn't be used to play against other people. See, if we make a KoF world tourney and allow the usage of boss characters, every team will use them and the winner will probably the one that better uses that boss, turning the tourney into complete BS. I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know. Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites too. BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are those the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country. Posted by kellomaniac on 01:26:2001 05:20 PM: quote: Originally posted by ASSMASTERX: Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw. The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS. What the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL LIKE FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY. PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS! LOL! Posted by TECHNO on 01:26:2001 11:07 PM: ...Well, if the so called "cheat", "glitch" or "infinite" is accessable to both players I don't consider it to be cheap. BUT, it makes the game IMO very UN-fun when you're spending money to play in the arcades. Thank God for home systems. "Do you hear that Mr.Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability" -The Sentinel- Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 11:47 PM: "Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs what screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into every possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if Dong striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him), then he's cheap, I don't see your point." Oh so we have added another cheap striker to the list eh? How many more will you add in the comming months? BTW, half the strikers in the game can pick you up off the ground in one situation or another, its no bug. If the programming teams at SNK were as ignorant as to miss something so simple than the company you love so much is the worst team of programmers to ever grace the industry. I dont know why im suprised, the have done nothing about infinites that were possible 6 KOF games ago. Im still quite positive it was purposly implimented, programmers dont and cant miss anything like that, just deosnt happen. "Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that the strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I mean, the striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and the system programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a small test, but when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete program must work as a whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working, then it's buggy." Again, IF that were true than SNK is a terrible company. However its not, whether it was done butn seprate groups or not, someone has to impliment it together, thats what plan sheets are for. There not dumb, or are they? Your choice. "After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully done. And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we will start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is, it can be done." Yeah for one measly striker, except i can still quick recover after the combo and nail you for it. Youll get a striker but youll be dead. "Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character, which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness." It does exist, i didnt really enter discussion refering to that, but, i dont think its in the same form you percieve it to be. I dont think people really use such characters, and the FEW who do arent regular players. In the end its barely noticable. I dont notice it in my area and i dont think you see people using truly cheap characters to often ether. "I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know. Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites too. BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are those the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country." It may have been the wrong video. I remember the player sitting back and doing Ice Breaths abd air counters all day. Try one of the K' vids, he truly does turtle and it works well. Im not sure where the tourneys were held, but it says somewhere on the site... quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also" Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs what screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into every possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if Dong striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him), then he's cheap, I don't see your point. "and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while there on the ground as normal hits wont do it" Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that the strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I mean, the striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and the system programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a small test, but when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete program must work as a whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working, then it's buggy. "Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF player who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if they do it while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and nail them. Go ahead and taunt." After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully done. And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we will start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is, it can be done. "I know hes a "cheap" character" Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character, which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness. "point is i dont think the players you talk about are as good as you say as nobody complains when somethings not hurting them." Huh, It must have hurted them the first couple of times they tried to beat the machine, and a little common sense tells you it shouldn't be used to play against other people. See, if we make a KoF world tourney and allow the usage of boss characters, every team will use them and the winner will probably the one that better uses that boss, turning the tourney into complete BS. I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know. Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites too. BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are those the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:27:2001 12:47 AM: "Oh so we have added another cheap striker to the list eh?" Nope, I rather try it myself and decide. "BTW, half the strikers in the game can pick you up off the ground in one situation or another" I didn't try all the strikers but I know why you're talking BS. "If the programming teams at SNK were as ignorant as to miss something so simple than the company you love so much is the worst team of programmers to ever grace the industry." Yeap, and forget everything else they did, including the previous episodes of KoF. As I explained before, lots of programmers left the company, they had a brand new striker system, they had to improve the Counter and Armor mode, do new graphics, some changes to every character and a schedule to fit (which is the worst thing a programmer has to face). So, if they got late to the release date, they had to release it anyways, leaving so many bugs behind. "Im still quite positive it was purposly implimented" To match Crapcom's VS series? "someone has to impliment it together, thats what plan sheets are for" Another uncle Ryoga story: In my company we were developing a system, we had a schedule with tasks perfectly divided and that project crap managers love for some retarded reason. You know, programmers don't set the deliver time, but managers do, which means those schedules can be highly unrealistic. Well, we had two days of delay (no big thing) and I was the guy who was closer in times to what was planned, so I decided to gather my work with some of the other guy's work so I could test the system in a more complete way (consider you do a lot of separate testing before joining it with the rest of the system). There was a little problem, that program should be able to work with two different databases, and the developing tool was made by the maker of one of those databases. Now, when I tried it with the other database I found out that it didn't allow me to open more than a window at the same time, meaning we were screwed one or two days before the deliver date. We had to patch it as we could and the result was something I considered crap. So believe me when I tell you being a programmer is not easy as saying it. "except i can still quick recover after the combo and nail you for it" Huh? Using which character? And which character should I use to have such a crappy taunt? Remember you can't choose Dan in KoF. "I dont think people really use such characters" That was an obvious example, there are other things I do consider cheap. Another example, choose Mai in '98, you can do her fan dance over and over again. That's cheap, as it bears a lot of damage (even block damage) has a good recovery and it's not a difficult move. You can counter it as she fills your power bar like hell and you can just CD counter. I've used it, and know a very easy way to counter it, even though I know that move is cheap. "I dont notice it in my area" And your area is... "I remember the player sitting back and doing Ice Breaths" Ice Breaths don't have a good recovery. Of course he did use that and the anti air too, but he seemed very offensive and most time he landed those moves, besides he wasn't in a corner all the time as he rushed for combos very frequently. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:27:2001 06:04 AM: All I can say is that Cheapness is a hideaway to give instant security to a worthless player. and THAT is irrefutable, if anyone hell comes out of a refute that'll only be based on bias and not on open-mindedness. Posted by GeeseHoward on 01:27:2001 06:20 AM: Hey, waasup, people?! As for this post I think there is such a thing as being "cheap" but I didn't say that you can't play cheap while playing. I just try to play the best game that I can, but honestly though, people who play cheap do tend to know only one pattern or tactic that usually has unbelievable priority over a given character. In CvS I think there are a lot of players who just do the same thing over and over, and it just gets tiresome, and then they start thinking, damn, I'm the greatest player of all time. If you beat these people at their own game, you can see how much it frustrates them, and they usually just shut-up. Anyone ever see that? I extremly dislike Guile in CvS, but then again, he's beatable. So yeah, that's what I think. As for the people complaining about what should and shouldn't be discussed, just don't read the topic...Its that simple..I mean, its just a game... Later -The Geese Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 11:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: This is a discussion about "cheapness" not about excuses. If you can't get it, then you should read the thread (at least once). Now, if after reading the thread you still don't get it, then I'll have to give you the sad news that you're a retard. No one has proven me wrong yet. Read my posts. No one here has said anything against it or challenged it and if you do you are a hypocrite to everything you have posted here. And yes i am complaining when I see 3 pages of you MOSTLY posting nothing but flames. And if you don't get that you can follow your own advice you gave me up there. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-26-2001).] [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-26-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 11:39 AM: So far I've seen in this thread, a) People who believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series b) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series c) People who believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series d) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series...erm not really, I have to see this combination yet So I ask: is anybody out here who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series?. Just curious Or maybe are all those weird theories of the people here just the result of a "combo" of Seth's make-believe + being used to the VS series?? Think about it... Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 11:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: No one has proven me wrong yet. Ehh? What are you talking about buddy?? Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 11:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ehh? What are you talking about buddy?? Oryoga tried to say that i was whining about the post length because I had been proven wrong when more than half of the people on this topic agreed with me or said nothing to challenge it at all. I guess nobody bothered to read the last 3 pages. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 12:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: Oryoga tried to say that i was whining about the post length because I had been proven wrong when more than half of the people on this topic agreed with me or said nothing to challenge it at all. I guess nobody bothered to read the last 3 pages. Apparently neither did you. Otherwise you already knew that "more than half of the people on this topic" means SHIT compared to the vast majority of the fighters' players in this world who CERTAINLY do believe in Cheapness; The World > USA > SRK.com, in case you didn't know... Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 01:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Apparently neither did you. Otherwise you already knew that "more than half of the people on this topic" means SHIT compared to the vast majority of the fighters' players in this world who CERTAINLY do believe in Cheapness; The World > USA > SRK.com, in case you didn't know... Exactly my point. I said more than half the people who have posted here in this topic. This is where the discussion began. Not the vast majority you are talking about. Obviously there is more of the minorty posting here than the majority. The outside majority can think what they want and can give their views here too. But when i reread everyones posts here most of thier opinions on what is cheap are close to mine. I never said that i didn't belive in cheapness [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).] [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).] Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:27:2001 01:24 PM: If you people don't like whining stop being cheap.. The only reason people think cheapness does not exist is because they are cheapasses.. I.e. A guile player in CvS who does nothing but throw sonic booms and sweeps all day.. Blanka who just rolls all fay and they dare call themsleves experts.. they should be run over by a truck and told that their parents are terrible for raising such a cheap ass, I love whining especially if I have beaten a cheap ass player to a pulp and made his head bleed just like the other day.. That doesn't make me reasonable nor do I admit I am BUT I DON'T CARE the sheer fun of "wanting to kill" all cheap-ass bastards.. I'm in love with this hatred. Posted by Muchiko on 01:27:2001 02:42 PM: quote: I have a challenge for all of you people who believe in the word cheap. Show me someone who has the skill to give the top 10 players in golf land some serious competition and also believes in the word cheap. I guaranee you won't find one. You know why? Because they don't blame the game's inherent design when they lose. They blame themselves. That's precisely why they are so DAMN good at the game. They blamed their mistakes, and improved. If they blamed the game, or their opponent's cheap style, they would never improve. Well, since you asked for it. When KOF2k just released in Golfland, Alex Valle tried out the game... of course, he loses everytime. But whenever he loses to my two chars, he would always complained and called them the cheapess KOF characters ever. Not only that but those two chars are chars no one even dare touches... And they require about a year to become decent chars, really. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:27:2001 06:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: So far I've seen in this thread, a) People who believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series b) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series c) People who believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series d) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series...erm not really, I have to see this combination yet So I ask: is anybody out here who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series?. Just curious Or maybe are all those weird theories of the people here just the result of a "combo" of Seth's make-believe + being used to the VS series?? Think about it... Well, here I am. I don't really believe in cheapness. I believe in lowly-skilled scrubs, but not cheapness. The only reason I play VS. games is because that's the type of game that gets the most comp where I currently live. I get bored with VS. games really quickly, and most people I play are generally too easy to stomp, so it's no fun. But playing by myself isn't any fun either. Nobody plays CVS in my arcade that much, except for the Chinese guys who work in the food court (and they're really good). So unless they are around, there's no comp for me on that game. It's sad, because I really like CVS. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by bis on 01:27:2001 07:38 PM: Thank you muchiko for bringing up the story you had about valle. All the "experts" complain about cheapness to it's just funny when some people think the experts can do no wrong in a game. All the "experts" i see play cheap anyone who has blackheart or cable plays cheap cause they know it's cheap. Why else would they use them , mostly everyone plays dirty to win and that's a fact. The only reason people use certain guys cause of powerful abilities. If zangief was really strong in mvsc 2 all these so called experts would be using them. In essence these guys jump on the bandwagon when a powerful fighter is found. Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 08:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by Muchiko: Well, since you asked for it. When KOF2k just released in Golfland, Alex Valle tried out the game... of course, he loses everytime. But whenever he loses to my two chars, he would always complained and called them the cheapess KOF characters ever. Not only that but those two chars are chars no one even dare touches... And they require about a year to become decent chars, really. Great anecdote Muchiko. Heh you tell 'em! BTW which chars did you use? Just curious Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 08:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Well, here I am. I don't really believe in cheapness. I believe in lowly-skilled scrubs, but not cheapness. The only reason I play VS. games is because that's the type of game that gets the most comp where I currently live. I get bored with VS. games really quickly, and most people I play are generally too easy to stomp, so it's no fun. But playing by myself isn't any fun either. Ok man, it makes one then. Anyone else? BTW how did you "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist? Care to explain? I'm asking cause it's not very common among KOF fans... Posted by SSJGogeta on 01:27:2001 10:43 PM: there is no such thing a s cheap just excuses to loosing I am niether goku nor vegeta but the instrument of your destruction Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:28:2001 01:14 AM: SithKilla: We backed up a lot of things and you just deny it because it's better for you to do so than to accept reality, so if you still think you have something worthy to say then repost it, this forum takes a lot to load and I won't take that much time to read another retarded quote. SSJGogeta: Well, your retarded quote was much easier to see. Tell me, why do a bunch of tourney winners listen to what other people say about you? Why do you care about other people whinning over a defeat? I think this is a Jinmaster (correct me if it was another guy) story: Jin once played MvsC2 against Duc. He beaten Duc (you know, Jin is number 7 and Duc is number 1 at that game). Later on that tourney(or was it the rematch) he faced Duc again, and this funny guy did his extra cheap Spiral-Cable technique, beating Jinmaster. Now what is the moral? It is that Duc relies on a single trap to beat other good players, and whenever Jinmaster discovers a good way to overcome it, he will beat Duc's sorry ass. Posted by Panpigpig on 01:28:2001 01:16 AM: ok......... http://thor.prohosting.com/~mugen4e/0000/oleona-blood.gif "Am I still in King of Fighters or King of Losers?" Posted by SithKilla on 01:28:2001 03:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: SithKilla: We backed up a lot of things and you just deny it because it's better for you to do so than to accept reality, so if you still think you have something worthy to say then repost it, this forum takes a lot to load and I won't take that much time to read another retarded quote. Bottom line don't say I was proved wrong if you don't even know what my point was. I have posted my views 4 times But you choose to not read and make assumptions based on nothing more than sombody calling you out on your squabbles for the last 2 pages that have no substance. But i will humor you. Cheapness exists because when you cheat you are being cheap. And I don’t care what game you are in there is a way of cheating. And no we are not talking about glitches or infinites. All the examples I have given of being cheap if you had read them have nothing to do with any character in the game. Read the definition of what I said was cheap again. I just said cheapness does not exist IN THE GAME because both players have an equal chance of winning. But I said cheapness itself does exist when playing when your opponent if he/she is not given equal playing rights or has no chance of winning period. For example, mashing my buttons or shaking the machine is just outright cheating. Its sort of like tripping a guy running the 100 meter dash. So in conclusion NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME IS CHEAP. But cheapness itself still exists. The whole game was just made poorly with poor debugging and game testers. Now am I wrong or right? If I am wrong please tell me how I differ from your opinion because to my knowledge all you “masters” have been saying the same thing I have and have been arguing with a person who has agreed with you for the last 2 pages. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).] Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:28:2001 08:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok man, it makes one then. Anyone else? BTW how did you "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist? Care to explain? I'm asking cause it's not very common among KOF fans... Like I said in an earlier post, I based my decision on my personal experiences. In my eyes, "cheap" could be anything that a bad player wants to call cheap. If said scrub loses to a certain strategy, he feels perfectly entitled to calling it "cheap", whether it takes a lot of effort or not. It's his excuse for losing. I came to this conclusion because every time I hear the word "cheap" in an arcade, it's coming from a loser who is pissed because he got owned. So I came to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as "cheapness". What you call cheapness, I call bad tactics. Simple as that. Because "cheap" tactics (ie, take little effort, but big payoff) can be used intelligently by good players who know better than to stick to only one tactic. If you know your opponent can't beat a tactic, you should use it, unless you want to showboat or screw around. Once they learn the "cheap" tactic, you can then show your skill by using a different tactic. Just because a tactic is "cheap" doesn't mean it is bad to use it...just don't use it all the time. Mix it up. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by Jusatsu on 01:28:2001 09:26 AM: Who fucking cares!?!? how can people argue over something as stupid as this for this long! man! http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/sig.jpg Tyler says use soap. The army uses guns. Dealers say do dope. The pope tends to do nuns. The lovers say elope. The french use kilotons. I tend to use Gato. MOU-KO KOU HAZAN!!! Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 12:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by SSJGogeta: there is no such thing a s cheap just excuses to loosing There is no such thing as a super-race of American SFers who have discovered that Cheapness doesn't exist, just a bunch of dudes BRAINWASHED by Seth Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 01:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Like I said in an earlier post, I based my decision on my personal experiences. In my eyes, "cheap" could be anything that a bad player wants to call cheap. If said scrub loses to a certain strategy, he feels perfectly entitled to calling it "cheap", whether it takes a lot of effort or not. It's his excuse for losing. I came to this conclusion because every time I hear the word "cheap" in an arcade, it's coming from a loser who is pissed because he got owned. So I came to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as "cheapness". Man excuse me but that makes no sense IMHO. Why to base your views about a game dynamics on the whines of a bunch of scrubs? Scrubs can complain about ANYTHING whenever they get owned. Following that line of thinking, scrubs at my local arcade, *Complain about their controller being busted (when it isn't) ---> So controllers are NEVER busted *Complain about me smoking while playing during certain challenges (heh heh) ---> So I certainly do NOT smoke during any challenge (which is false) *Complain about they "having a bad day" ---> So EVERYBODY displays the same amount of skill ANYTIME in his/her life Additionally I always (humoristically) blame anytime I get my ass kicked at MOTW on "Billy & Yamazaki not being in the game" ---> So Billy & Yama ARE actually in the game, only that I'm unable to unlock 'em Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:29:2001 06:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Man excuse me but that makes no sense IMHO. Why to base your views about a game dynamics on the whines of a bunch of scrubs? Scrubs can complain about ANYTHING whenever they get owned. Following that line of thinking, scrubs at my local arcade, *Complain about their controller being busted (when it isn't) ---> So controllers are NEVER busted *Complain about me smoking while playing during certain challenges (heh heh) ---> So I certainly do NOT smoke during any challenge (which is false) *Complain about they "having a bad day" ---> So EVERYBODY displays the same amount of skill ANYTIME in his/her life Additionally I always (humoristically) blame anytime I get my ass kicked at MOTW on "Billy & Yamazaki not being in the game" ---> So Billy & Yama ARE actually in the game, only that I'm unable to unlock 'em Well, think about it. I first heard the word "cheap" when some guy called me cheap when I beat him in a game. So I looked at what I was doing, and decided that maybe I should change my strategy a little bit so I wouldn't be "cheap", since being cheap was bad. Then I beat someone else, and they called me cheap. Oh well. I decided to ask one of the better players at the arcade what "cheap" was. He told me that cheap was something that absolutely dominated you in a fight, something that you could do nothing about. In my experience, there was no "unbeatable" strategy.....there was always a way around stuff, you just had to find it. So scratch that idea. My point is that everyone has a different definition of what is "cheap". Since there is no one universal definition of the term that everyone agrees on, then how can the concept be taken seriously? I have yet to find a group of people who are very good at video games and also have a definition of cheap that they all agree on. That's why I don't think there is such a thing as cheapness. That's also why I disagree with you. I have never met a good player who thought cheapness existed, and until I meet one, I shall stick with my current beliefs. BTW, did you read the rest of my post that you used in your response? Just curious. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 09:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Well, think about it. I first heard the word "cheap" when some guy called me cheap when I beat him in a game. So I looked at what I was doing, and decided that maybe I should change my strategy a little bit so I wouldn't be "cheap", since being cheap was bad. Then I beat someone else, and they called me cheap. Oh well. I decided to ask one of the better players at the arcade what "cheap" was. He told me that cheap was something that absolutely dominated you in a fight, something that you could do nothing about. In my experience, there was no "unbeatable" strategy.....there was always a way around stuff, you just had to find it. So scratch that idea. My point is that everyone has a different definition of what is "cheap". Since there is no one universal definition of the term that everyone agrees on, then how can the concept be taken seriously? I have yet to find a group of people who are very good at video games and also have a definition of cheap that they all agree on. That's why I don't think there is such a thing as cheapness. That's also why I disagree with you. I have never met a good player who thought cheapness existed, and until I meet one, I shall stick with my current beliefs. BTW, did you read the rest of my post that you used in your response? Just curious. Yep I did read your post entirely. I didn't reply to the rest just cause I agree with what you said about tactics there (even though it doesn't implies that Cheapness doesn't exist). About everybody having his own definition of cheap, well there are things like infinities or use of extremely overpowered chars in which everyone agrees. In some areas of the world normal throwing counts too (there is not a real big fuss about it in my area though). So more or less views about Cheapness are not that heterogeneus, now are they? Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 01:29:2001 02:06 PM: *sigh* I see no point in arguing but I'll just leave my opinion about this subject. Cheapness does exist. Many so called/self-proclaimed experts claim they are good at this or that fighting game when the only thing they know is to repeat an annoying pattern. A very common sight in any versus game. You call "cheapnes" as a losers excuse but you know the "losers" can look at it the other way - you call your style "fair" and argue like a dick that you're so good and they're so bad 'cause they can't break a pattern where in fact it is only an excuse for you to hide the fact that that is the only fucking way you can win. Many "losers" such as myself tend to stay as a "loser" because we don't want to degrade to the cheap players level. In other words we don't resort to cheapness. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:29:2001 04:17 PM: "I have posted my views 4 times But you choose to not read" I've read, answered and dismissed them. Nothing too important, but I was looking for something really important and haven't found it, that's why I asked you to repost (expecting to find something worthy to read, just in case of missinterpretation). "Cheapness exists because when you cheat you are being cheap." Well, yeap, cheating is a form of cheapness. "I just said cheapness does not exist IN THE GAME because both players have an equal chance of winning" Yeap, there are glitches in the game that makes one of the players with less winning chance. If there is one character that has a big easy glitch or infinite, using it may cause everybody picking him, going back to Karate Champ days. "But I said cheapness itself does exist when playing when your opponent if he/she is not given equal playing rights or has no chance of winning period." Now you're saying the complete opposite thing. Are you sure about what you're talking about? "For example, mashing my buttons or shaking the machine is just outright cheating." Nope, it's not (unless you're hitting the other guy with your elbow in the process). Mashing buttons and shaking the machine is just dumb (but you can be very successful in MvsC2). "So in conclusion NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME IS CHEAP" Based on? I mean after that many contradictions and stupid remarks (that I've proven wrong by the way), how are you expecting to make a valid point? "The whole game was just made poorly with poor debugging and game testers." Some games have that failure, some lack of testing, but you can't expect everything to pop up during the testing fase. It's when the game is in the arcades and have competition when all problems appear, now it's the players choice to use those extra (and non intended) advantages or not (to be or not to be cheap). "Now am I wrong or right?" Guess it by yourself. Posted by SithKilla on 01:29:2001 09:30 PM: I've read, answered and dismissed them. Nothing too important, but I was looking for something really important and haven't found it, that's why I asked you to repost (expecting to find something worthy to read, just in case of missinterpretation). If that was true than you wouldn't have made your first comment that I was proven wrong because nobody tried untill now. What more are you looking for? Its not that complicated when nothing about the game is truely cheap. I say nothing in the game is cheap. This has been my point from jump. Or are you saying it is? Yeap, there are glitches in the game that makes one of the players with less winning chance. If there is one character that has a big easy glitch or infinite, using it may cause everybody picking him, going back to Karate Champ days. You didn't give me an answer as to how you felt about this after you quoted. That is the whole point of this dicussion. Now you're saying the complete opposite thing. Are you sure about what you're talking about? By equal playing rights i mean being able to do the same things your opponent is doing. This is no different than what i said above. You just twisted it. Nope, it's not (unless you're hitting the other guy with your elbow in the process). Mashing buttons and shaking the machine is just dumb (but you can be very successful in MvsC2). Again you misinterpreted what i was saying. I said the other guy is pressing your buttons. That is pretty cheap to me. Unless you think this act is ok when your playing. Based on? I mean after that many contradictions and stupid remarks (that I've proven wrong by the way), how are you expecting to make a valid point? Based on the fact that you can't read properly because your too biased to get my points. I guess you just like arguing. Even if i was making stupid remarks I make them without insulting people. Some games have that failure, some lack of testing, but you can't expect everything to pop up during the testing fase. It's when the game is in the arcades and have competition when all problems appear, now it's the players choice to use those extra (and non intended) advantages or not (to be or not to be cheap). I don't expect everything to. I never said it had to be perfect. But they could have done a better job like i said time and time again. You just have to argue with someone even when you agree with them don't you. Its too hard for you to accept anything i say as being right. Point being they could have tested it better. You seem to be the one contradicting. Tell me again what you think is cheap. Again i just told you my reasons. Since you are so determind to be my enemy why don't you give me some counterpoints instead of just calling me stupid and retarded. p.s oh yeah if my quote is retarded than that means you belive in making excuses for everything you do. Thats what it means. Now are you going to fight me on this too? [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-29-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:29:2001 10:25 PM: "If that was true than you wouldn't have made your first comment that I was proven wrong because nobody tried untill now." You see, lots of people in this board pop up in a lengthy thread like this one and make the same comment that other people did in the first page of the thread. I will obviously skip that comment and go on. I may skip you if I feel your comment was already been answered long ago. "I say nothing in the game is cheap." You're not the first guy to do so. Obviously I don't think the same. "You didn't give me an answer as to how you felt about this after you quoted." You mean, you want to know what I think about everyone having the same chance of winning. Well, I think that theorically both players do have the same chance if both of them choose the same character/team. Now, doing so kills the fun nowadays(that's what I meant with Karate Champ). "By equal playing rights i mean being able to do the same things your opponent is doing." I didn't twisted, but I think I got what you meant now. But to do the same exact thing you need to play with the exact same characters. "I said the other guy is pressing your buttons." Whoa!!! That's BS!!! You mean people in your area do that??? That's utter crap. "Based on the fact that you can't read properly because your too biased to get my points." You showed no good proof. Being able to select the same character (or set of characters) means nothing about a game or how it is or should be played. "I guess you just like arguing." Of course I do, i wouldn't be posting in BBSs if I didn't like discussing. "Even if i was making stupid remarks I make them without insulting people." As I said to ej_333, after replying the same thing for over 4 pages (now it's 7 pages), I tend to become flammy. "You just have to argue with someone even when you agree with them don't you." Nope, I just think that a game doesn't have a poor design just for having a couple of glitches and infinites (big unbalances are something else), that's what I don't agree with. Of course I would like to see games being properly tested!!! "Since you are so determind to be my enemy" Your enemy??? Whatever. "why don't you give me some counterpoints instead of just calling me stupid and retarded." Couterpoints of what? Of both sides being able to pull out the same thing? Ok, here it is: Both sides can pull the same things only if they always use the same character, which is crap. Now, even using the same characters you may have a ... Gambit vs Gambit match (warning, I don't play MvsC2 but I think it will be the best explanation, so I apologize beforehand if something I say is not precisely like that in the game). The game is going normal until one of the two players get a little advantage of a punch and performs the Gambit glitch to freeze the screen, becoming the winner. Don't you think that is cheap? If that is completely accepted, all people would try to master that glitch. What do you think would be the level in a place like that? Now, if you had a honor rule preventing people for doing so, the playing level would raise a lot as all matches would last until one of the two players looses his life bar. "if my quote is retarded than that means you belive in making excuses for everything you do." Making excuses? I never make excuses even when I could. Example, two weeks ago I played in a place that had either the joystick rotated or the right up diagonal broken, I played and lost (instead of jumping forward I jumped straight up), but I never said anything to the other guy. I don't take cheapness as an excuse (no one cares about excuses). So yeah, I'll fight you and I'll punish in the name of the moon (it's a joke about boss, skip it). Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:29:2001 10:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Yep I did read your post entirely. I didn't reply to the rest just cause I agree with what you said about tactics there (even though it doesn't implies that Cheapness doesn't exist). About everybody having his own definition of cheap, well there are things like infinities or use of extremely overpowered chars in which everyone agrees. In some areas of the world normal throwing counts too (there is not a real big fuss about it in my area though). So more or less views about Cheapness are not that heterogeneus, now are they? Actually, most of the people I know don't gripe about overpowered characters, or if they do then they are stupid (they complain about my Cable, then they go pick Storm and Magneto....so stupid). So you can't comfortably say "Everyone agrees that overpowered characters are cheap", because it's not true. And most people I know don't have a problem with throwing either. My point is, there is no one universal defn. of cheap, it's different for everyone. Since most definitions I hear have flaws in them, I don't take them seriously. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by Frankie on 01:29:2001 11:47 PM: There is no such thing as cheapness...If its in the game...Its fair... ...I feel so strongly about this that I'm gonna make a thread... http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/signature/short.gif Go to www.GAMEGEN.com or else... Posted by SithKilla on 01:29:2001 11:57 PM: You mean, you want to know what I think about everyone having the same chance of winning. Well, I think that theorically both players do have the same chance if both of them choose the same character/team. Now, doing so kills the fun nowadays(that's what I meant with Karate Champ). It may kill the fun but you just said yourself that both players theoretically have the same chance. So if both players have the same chance of winning, how is one person being cheap if both players can do the same moves? I didn't twisted, but I think I got what you meant now. But to do the same exact thing you need to play with the exact same characters. Exactly. Thats why i say its not cheap. Whoa!!! That's BS!!! You mean people in your area do that??? That's utter crap. Its called living in the inner city with assholes. And like i said before this IS cheap You showed no good proof. Being able to select the same character (or set of characters) means nothing about a game or how it is or should be played. The proofs right there. Maybe thats not how it should be but it is. When talking about your quote/unquote "cheapness" it has everything to do with it. Are you saying that if both people pick the same character the odds aren't even? Of course I do, i wouldn't be posting in BBSs if I didn't like discussing. There is a difference between arguing and discussing. Or debating and arguing. It becomes an argument when you do more than just challenge my views. You make ignorant comments because you think differently than me. Maybe its just normal for you to call people retards when "discussing" things but I take offence. This shows a lack of respect. And if you think its ok to do this to everyone you talk to you will find life very hard to live. As I said to ej_333, after replying the same thing for over 4 pages (now it's 7 pages), I tend to become flammy. If you keep having to say the same things you could have just told me that and i would have said "ok cool". As a matter of fact you didn't have to respond at all. I understand though. I get pissed off too but we can talk about this without degraging people. I don't know you. I have no beef with you. So lets give that area a rest please. Nope, I just think that a game doesn't have a poor design just for having a couple of glitches and infinites (big unbalances are something else), that's what I don't agree with. Of course I would like to see games being properly tested!!! Fine you can belive that. As for me when i look at the game i see nothing but problems. More than half of the players have infinities. You have a number of glitches. No other game has had this many problems. Thats why i say they could have done a better job Your enemy??? Whatever. When sombody I don't know starts calling me stupid i for no other reason than a difference in opinion I take offence. That makes me belive they have a problem with me. Therefore I consider them my enemy. Thats the image you give off. Wouldn't you feel the same way? Both sides can pull the same things only if they always use the same character, which is crap. Now, even using the same characters you may have a ... Gambit vs Gambit match (warning, I don't play MvsC2 but I think it will be the best explanation, so I apologize beforehand if something I say is not precisely like that in the game). The game is going normal until one of the two players get a little advantage of a punch and performs the Gambit glitch to freeze the screen, becoming the winner. Don't you think that is cheap? If that is completely accepted, all people would try to master that glitch. What do you think would be the level in a place like that? Now, if you had a honor rule preventing people for doing so, the playing level would raise a lot as all matches would last until one of the two players looses his life bar. Again both players have the ability to pick the same character and do the glitch. It may not be fun but when talking about a fair fight thats what you have to do. Its unfair and crappy but its a part of the game. Making excuses? I never make excuses even when I could. Example, two weeks ago I played in a place that had either the joystick rotated or the right up diagonal broken, I played and lost (instead of jumping forward I jumped straight up), but I never said anything to the other guy. I don't take cheapness as an excuse (no one cares about excuses). So yeah, I'll fight you and I'll punish in the name of the moon (it's a joke about boss, skip it). I never said you were making excuses. I said IF you think its a bunch of BS than you belive in making excuses for whatever you do. That is what my quotes about. You said my quote was retarded which means you don't belive its true. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-29-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 12:00 AM: "There is no such thing as cheapness...If its in the game...Its fair..." We have a new retard in the neighbourhood. "...I feel so strongly about this that I'm gonna make a thread..." Who gives a flying fuck? What happened? Your trap didn't work? Why are you doing it again? Don't you know anything else? Oooops, guess you're the one going to the exchange machine. Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 12:36 AM: You know, i could sit here a bitch all day about cheap someone is with the current character there playing, but where does that get me? It deosnt make me a better player as im not doing anything to beat the so called "cheapness". Fact is PEOPLE DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT CHEAPNESS UNLESS THERE LOSING. So for anyone who is saying that cheapness is really that apparent its obvious that you have been or was very much losing to the cheapness and instead of learning to do something about it you complain. Hense the reason why it deosnt matter if it truly exists as the real reason you complain about isnt becuase your a good player and you think people dont meet your standards of a good players, not becuase you think a character is overbearing, but becuase YOU have not taken the time you learn how to do beat it. IF you can beat it isnt cheap, PERIOD. People do everyday folks... quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16: If you people don't like whining stop being cheap.. The only reason people think cheapness does not exist is because they are cheapasses.. I.e. A guile player in CvS who does nothing but throw sonic booms and sweeps all day.. Blanka who just rolls all fay and they dare call themsleves experts.. they should be run over by a truck and told that their parents are terrible for raising such a cheap ass, I love whining especially if I have beaten a cheap ass player to a pulp and made his head bleed just like the other day.. That doesn't make me reasonable nor do I admit I am BUT I DON'T CARE the sheer fun of "wanting to kill" all cheap-ass bastards.. I'm in love with this hatred. Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Actually, most of the people I know don't gripe about overpowered characters, or if they do then they are stupid (they complain about my Cable, then they go pick Storm and Magneto....so stupid). Please note that neither Ryoga or I are taking MvC2 as an example cause you HAVE to be cheap to win in that game. Y'know the best example on how poorly balanced the whole game is? That if you wanna beat "X" you *HAVE* to choose "Y". And what if I don't like "Y", gotta learn to play as him/her anyways just in case my opponent picks "X"?? That's crap if you ask me, a "broken game" like I've seen people here calling it... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: So you can't comfortably say "Everyone agrees that overpowered characters are cheap", because it's not true. And most people I know don't have a problem with throwing either. My point is, there is no one universal defn. of cheap, it's different for everyone. Since most definitions I hear have flaws in them, I don't take them seriously. That's prolly cause no one is gonna devote his entire life to demonstrate scientifically the existence of Cheapness. I'd do, but I suck at Maths Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Hense the reason why it deosnt matter if it truly exists as the real reason you complain about isnt becuase your a good player and you think people dont meet your standards of a good players, not becuase you think a character is overbearing, but becuase YOU have not taken the time you learn how to do beat it. How do you know? Have you personally played him? Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato: *sigh* I see no point in arguing but I'll just leave my opinion about this subject. Cheapness does exist. Many so called/self-proclaimed experts claim they are good at this or that fighting game when the only thing they know is to repeat an annoying pattern. A very common sight in any versus game. You call "cheapnes" as a losers excuse but you know the "losers" can look at it the other way - you call your style "fair" and argue like a dick that you're so good and they're so bad 'cause they can't break a pattern where in fact it is only an excuse for you to hide the fact that that is the only fucking way you can win. Many "losers" such as myself tend to stay as a "loser" because we don't want to degrade to the cheap players level. In other words we don't resort to cheapness. In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough at the game Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 04:55 AM: "In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough at the game" But don't abuse that, or you will become a cheapass that won't be able to stand a real match (and you will loose some brain cells as well). Kamui: Yadda, yadda, yawnnnn. SithKilla: "So if both players have the same chance of winning, how is one person being cheap if both players can do the same moves?" It's a matter of choice. You see, I can do a glitch, but it's my choice not to do that 'cause I find it cheap. As I said before, if you play cheap constantly, you will rely on cheapness, and when your cheap tactic stops working, you're dead meat. So leaving outside cheap tactics, will improve your playing ability. Besides, it depends on your area if it's healthy to win cheaply or not (you may loose something more important than a few cents). "Its called living in the inner city with assholes. And like i said before this IS cheap" Oh well, you can bet that's cheap. "Are you saying that if both people pick the same character the odds aren't even?" We're not talking about "balance in games", we talk about "cheapness". "You make ignorant comments because you think differently than me." If you repeat something that was already said and discussed for pages.... "If you keep having to say the same things you could have just told me that..." If I did so, you would never learn that jumping into a thread to post something that was said long ago brings flames. Besides, you weren't the only one to jump in with that quote. "So lets give that area a rest please." Ok "No other game has had this many problems." You talk about MvsC2 right? Well, I don't like that game at all, so I don't know how bad is it. "Wouldn't you feel the same way?" If you do it out of the blue, yes, but that's why I read the entire thread before posting. "Its unfair and crappy but its a part of the game." If it's unfair and crappy, why use it? What good do you get from using it? A victory? I rather loose with honor than win with a low trick. To me, freezing the screen with a move it's like pressing the other guy's buttons. "I never said you were making excuses." I don't completely get you on that. What I think is that excuses are useless and nobody should use them to avoid certain pattern they cannot break. Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 01:30:2001 06:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough at the game Heh! I don't lose all the time y'know. I just find it hard to believe that ppl have to cheat me in order to win when I use a double Zangief team. Just having trouble with 'em turtles(Guile, Blanka, Balrog, etc.) Rugal spoke about. But like I said I do win and thus I can say that I don't need to resort to cheapness. Posted by SithKilla on 01:30:2001 07:59 AM: It's a matter of choice. You see, I can do a glitch, but it's my choice not to do that 'cause I find it cheap. As I said before, if you play cheap constantly, you will rely on cheapness, and when your cheap tactic stops working, you're dead meat. So leaving outside cheap tactics, will improve your playing ability. Besides, it depends on your area if it's healthy to win cheaply or not (you may loose something more important than a few cents). You are using your own concept of eithics and honor when playing to justify what is cheap here. I accept that as your own personal view and will not fight it as long as you realize that this is not the universally accepted view of what is cheap We're not talking about "balance in games", we talk about "cheapness". My typo error there. I was asking if you thought that having the same characters picked was still cheap to you. But going back to what you earlier said you had said that "this is not the way the game should be played". Sometimes to compete this is necessary. You can choose not to do glitches and such but as i said before since both of you have the option to so its not cheap. If you repeat something that was already said and discussed for pages.... Well as i said before I would appreciate it if you killed it. I am not going to not post my opinion because sombody already said it. I have points that are different than these people along with ones that are similar. Things are bound to be repeated. You will be constantly annoyed with forums for the rest of your posting for this is quite common. If I did so, you would never learn that jumping into a thread to post something that was said long ago brings flames. Besides, you weren't the only one to jump in with that quote. I don't need to learn that, i just don't care. I have been posting in forums for a long time so i know the deal. People are offensive and that is fine, I will never put up with the lack of respect they give me. People need more tolerance. Its only certain people that flame that have low tolerance for such minor things. You talk about MvsC2 right? Well, I don't like that game at all, so I don't know how bad is it. Wow did we actually agree on something? Its pretty bad to me. Almost everyone has an infinite and there are unbalanced glitches in the game. If you do it out of the blue, yes, but that's why I read the entire thread before posting. You did it out of the blue my friend. I did nothing to provoke you and if i did i'm sorry. Whether you have had to say this a million times is irrelevant. I do not like people i don't know cursing at me and do not tolerate it. If it's unfair and crappy, why use it? What good do you get from using it? A victory? I rather loose with honor than win with a low trick. To me, freezing the screen with a move it's like pressing the other guy's buttons. Again we are not talking about your eithical views on the subject, we are talking about whether this is cheap. Both players have the opportunity to do it. Therefore it is not cheap. Nobody likes getting caught in a glitch but its a part of the game. I don't completely get you on that. What I think is that excuses are useless and nobody should use them to avoid certain pattern they cannot break. I was never really accusing you of anything. This is the quote i put for all my messages. But you got the point of the quote. If you want to relate it to what i am saying here my point is that saying glitches and infinities in the game are cheap is an excuse when playing. Again i'm not saying its right, i'm not saying its fair, i'm not saying you should pratice them, I'm just saying its not cheap. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 07:59 AM: No, i dont need to I already know what he plays like. I already know what his state of mind is. The people that complain about "cheapness" are the same people who dont understand what "strategy" is. Go take psychology. BTW, KOF online just got a batch of KOF tourney videos. This is deffinatly high level KOF play. Funny part is you cant deffinatly tell these guys have no strategy AT ALL when playing. There just jumping around like madtrying to land a combo. The dont stay on the ground the entire match, they just keep doing the same jumping attack over and over again. Im quite possitive that these guys have the same mentality as you do as from what you can see there is NOTHING interesting or "cheap" happening at all. They just play insanely offensive like there afraid to do anything else. I think they suck actually. This isnt a bash on KOF but a note of what your "ideal" state ofmind is doing to KOF, turning into a mindless fest of jumping. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: How do you know? Have you personally played him? Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 08:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Please note that neither Ryoga or I are taking MvC2 as an example cause you HAVE to be cheap to win in that game. Y'know the best example on how poorly balanced the whole game is? That if you wanna beat "X" you *HAVE* to choose "Y". And what if I don't like "Y", gotta learn to play as him/her anyways just in case my opponent picks "X"?? That's crap if you ask me, a "broken game" like I've seen people here calling it... First of all, I wasn't expressly saying that only the guys who play MVC2 don't complain about powerful characters. No one who plays KOF at my arcade complains about overpowered characters. No one who plays SS complains about them, either. And no one who plays CVS complains. Second, I expressly disagree on what you said about having to pick "X" to beat "Y" in MVC2. My own experiences in destroying Cable with Hayato (a miracle in and of itself) shout that theory down in my mind. And no, I didn't play cheaply, because it's damn hard to beat any keep-away character in that game with Hayato. So I don't think the game is that "unbalanced". But hey, what do I know? http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by ej_333 on 01:30:2001 08:21 AM: I can't believe this thread is still going on. Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 08:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by ej_333: I can't believe this thread is still going on. And it shall go on!! And on!! Until the end of humanity!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Wanna know how I know? Because just when it seems most people are done talking, someone will start the thread again! Go check out Frankie's thread! It's the exact same shit!!! BEHOLD, THE UTTER STUPIDITY!!!!!! http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: No, i dont need to I already know what he plays like. I already know what his state of mind is. The people that complain about "cheapness" are the same people who dont understand what "strategy" is. Go take psychology. PLEASE Kamui don't give me that "mindset" crap. Not only you SRK.com guys are a super race of mutant SFers who have received the Supreme Revelation from god himself (and yeah I already know you're an Atheist like Ryoga and myself, so don't bother telling me so) but now you can even read minds too?? Give me a break quote: Originally posted by Kamui: BTW, KOF online just got a batch of KOF tourney videos. This is deffinatly high level KOF play. Funny part is you cant deffinatly tell these guys have no strategy AT ALL when playing. There just jumping around like madtrying to land a combo. The dont stay on the ground the entire match, they just keep doing the same jumping attack over and over again. Im quite possitive that these guys have the same mentality as you do as from what you can see there is NOTHING interesting or "cheap" happening at all. They just play insanely offensive like there afraid to do anything else. I think they suck actually. This isnt a bash on KOF but a note of what your "ideal" state ofmind is doing to KOF, turning into a mindless fest of jumping. HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing style, I can grant you that. Anyways since I haven't watched those videos yet I can't coment anything about those guys' style. BTW what software do you need to watch those ASF videos of Valle vs Chen? Never heard of ASF before... Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: First of all, I wasn't expressly saying that only the guys who play MVC2 don't complain about powerful characters. No one who plays KOF at my arcade complains about overpowered characters. No one who plays SS complains about them, either. And no one who plays CVS complains. Well if you go back to the 'Dumb SNK lemmings' thread where all this started you'd see I'm refering mostly to Boss characters (and no I don't mean in SvC) that are selectable "thru" codes like KOF '95/'98 Omega Rugal, '96 Goenitz (in NeoGeo CD), SS3 Zankuro etc... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Second, I expressly disagree on what you said about having to pick "X" to beat "Y" in MVC2. My own experiences in destroying Cable with Hayato (a miracle in and of itself) shout that theory down in my mind. And no, I didn't play cheaply, because it's damn hard to beat any keep-away character in that game with Hayato. So I don't think the game is that "unbalanced". But hey, what do I know? Well if it isn't unbalanced why did you call beating Cable with Hayato 'a miracle'?? Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Wanna know how I know? Because just when it seems most people are done talking, someone will start the thread again! Go check out Frankie's thread! It's the exact same shit!!! Frankie just realized he was gonna lose the argument here and ran away to another thread IMHO... Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 05:12 PM: ej_333: Hey man, which tourney are you entering and when will it be? BTW, are you only gonna play MvsC2 or are you giving CvsS a try? ImMature: Don't you see that being near nuclear reactors give you Psycho Powers? Kamui knows our battle ability from the other side of the globe by just reading our posts. Now I wonder, Valle is said to have the greatest Psycho Power of all the Crpacomers, but he got owned by Daigo. Heh, I bet Daigo had a Psycho Drive below the arcades and a power sucking device connected to Valle's controller (those darn Jap controllers that made the US team lose). SithKilla: Hmmm, you actually make a good conversation after all. A note of advice, try your best in the first post or you'll be overlooked. "You are using your own concept of eithics and honor when playing to justify what is cheap here." Hmmm, cheapness isn't something quantifyable (does that word exists?). So you need to use your experience to see what is cheap and whatnot. Some people says that throwing is cheap while I think it's not, I may say that Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap and some people may think otherwise, it's a matter of perception, but ultimately cheap is something that gives a big reward for a low effort. In KoF throwing gives a low reward (normal throwing, of course) even though the effort needed to do so is pathetically low, so it may be cheap. "I was asking if you thought that having the same characters picked was still cheap to you." It's not about characters, but the way you use them. I could have based my game in a cheap Mai in '98, but I would have became less than a newbie in '99 where she doesn't have that fan dance. "Sometimes to compete this is necessary." If you're in a competition, I think it's ok to play safe, but basing your everyday game on that is trully weak. "both of you have the option to so its not cheap" Having both sides the option of being cheap doesn't overrule cheapness itself, it only balances the match. But aside of both players being able to be cheap, cheapness still exists. "I have points that are different than these people along with ones that are similar" The stress on the different points, or they will be shadowed by the others and dismissed. "You will be constantly annoyed with forums for the rest of your posting for this is quite common." On KoF related forums, it wasn't that way. "I did nothing to provoke you and if i did i'm sorry." With your quote, you ended in the same bag as Frankie and Trunks (to name a couple). "Whether you have had to say this a million times is irrelevant." To you, not to me. "Both players have the opportunity to do it." Again this doesn't make something less cheap. "what i am saying here my point is that saying glitches and infinities in the game are cheap is an excuse when playing." Well, that's your opinion, I think otherwise. BTW, you seem to mistake cheapness with balance. When something is cheap, it doesn't matter if both players can do that or not, it's still cheap regardless of the ability to pull it and the success you may get out of it (which means no matter if you won or lost, if you played cheap, you played cheap). Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 07:07 PM: "HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing style, I can grant you that" Ive been told over a hundred times that to effectivly win against high level players in KOF i MUST be ultra offensive. Eehh....Im not sure actually, i havent dealt with ASF before, they just seem to work for me. I thnk you will have to download a plug in for your movie viewer. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing style, I can grant you that. Anyways since I haven't watched those videos yet I can't coment anything about those guys' style. BTW what software do you need to watch those ASF videos of Valle vs Chen? Never heard of ASF before... Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 11:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Well if it isn't unbalanced why did you call beating Cable with Hayato 'a miracle'?? I exaggerated. What I meant was that beating a character like Cable, who has strong keepout games, with a character like Hayato, who has nothing but an average rushdown game, is no small feat. But the fact that it can be done warrants some merit to the character (Hayato). If the game really were completely unbalanced, it shouldn't be possible for Hayato to win against Cable in a fight between two equally skilled players. Since I myself have done it, I have to disagree with the game being "unbalanced". http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif "I'll show you who's a clone!" "Why do you bother?" Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 11:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: ImMature: Don't you see that being near nuclear reactors give you Psycho Powers? Kamui knows our battle ability from the other side of the globe by just reading our posts. Now I wonder, Valle is said to have the greatest Psycho Power of all the Crpacomers, but he got owned by Daigo. Heh, I bet Daigo had a Psycho Drive below the arcades and a power sucking device connected to Valle's controller (those darn Jap controllers that made the US team lose). LOL. Good one man. BTW do you remember that Iron Maiden song, The Clairvoyant? "Just by looking through your eyes he could see the future penetrating right into your mind, see the truth and see your lies, but for all his power COULDN'T foresee his own demise". Woah people here do have that kinda power heh heh quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Ive been told over a hundred times that to effectivly win against high level players in KOF i MUST be ultra offensive. Eehh....Im not sure actually, i havent dealt with ASF before, they just seem to work for me. I thnk you will have to download a plug in for your movie viewer. Of course in each case you just have to adapt your style to the other guy's tactics in order to win, you can't play everyone the same way. So? About the plug in, yeah I know. But which one? quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: I exaggerated. What I meant was that beating a character like Cable, who has strong keepout games, with a character like Hayato, who has nothing but an average rushdown game, is no small feat. But the fact that it can be done warrants some merit to the character (Hayato). If the game really were completely unbalanced, it shouldn't be possible for Hayato to win against Cable in a fight between two equally skilled players. Since I myself have done it, I have to disagree with the game being "unbalanced". Ok if that's your opinion what can I say? Posted by ej_333 on 01:31:2001 12:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: ej_333: Hey man, which tourney are you entering and when will it be? BTW, are you only gonna play MvsC2 or are you giving CvsS a try? Last tourney I entered was the Castro Valley MvC2 double-elimination tourney over the weekend, where I went two and out. I got almost the worst bracket possible, I lost to Ricky Ortiz in the first round (he's number two in California), and I lost to Kim Hoang in the losers bracket (he placed 3rd in the whole thing). I went with Spiral/Sentinel/Blackheart the entire time, even though it's a team I've only started playing in the last couple weeks. I wanted to work on them cuz they have potential. Damn, looks like I gotta work on that team more. I know I'm decent at MvC2, because I can definitely hang with Hiroshim, who's top 5 in California. He beats me most of the time, still, tho. I enter only MvC2 tourneys right now, but I'm seriously thinking of trying CvS. I watched some tourney-level CvS, and it seems pretty fun. Kinda simple, but still fun. Also, I'm getting kinda bored of MvC2, I play that game too much. Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 12:05 AM: Hmmm, cheapness isn't something quantifyable (does that word exists?). So you need to use your experience to see what is cheap and whatnot. Some people says that throwing is cheap while I think it's not, I may say that Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap and some people may think otherwise, it's a matter of perception, but ultimately cheap is something that gives a big reward for a low effort. In KoF throwing gives a low reward (normal throwing, of course) even though the effort needed to do so is pathetically low, so it may be cheap. I think you summed up our conflict here. I relate cheapness more to cheating while you see it as a move in the game someone does that is unbalanced as in your example where you say a big reward for low effort. It's not about characters, but the way you use them. Another place where we differ in interpretation. If you're in a competition, I think it's ok to play safe, but basing your everyday game on that is trully weak. No debate there Having both sides the option of being cheap doesn't overrule cheapness itself, it only balances the match. But aside of both players being able to be cheap, cheapness still exists. You use the word cheap, I use the word unbalanced. The stress on the different points, or they will be shadowed by the others and dismissed. I accept that and will take your advice there On KoF related forums, it wasn't that way. This isn't the KOF forum. With your quote, you ended in the same bag as Frankie and Trunks (to name a couple). I get it these people aren't too popular. As i said before the quote was seperate from the text. To you, not to me. Exactly i find it irrelevant. Again this doesn't make something less cheap. See above statments BTW, you seem to mistake cheapness with balance. When something is cheap, it doesn't matter if both players can do that or not, it's still cheap regardless of the ability to pull it and the success you may get out of it (which means no matter if you won or lost, if you played cheap, you played cheap). You said yourself that it isn't "quantifyable" so i am not mistaking anything. This is how i view what cheapness is. I say there is no cheapness IN the game. Only when there isn't equal playing ground opportunity between you and your opponent. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 01:04 AM: ImMature: Heh, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was my first Maiden cassette (I have it on CD now) and I remember very well that song. Some people here is funny, and don't miss the fun at Frankie's new cheapness thread, that promises to be a flame bait. SithKilla: "I think you summed up our conflict here." Yup, even though I also think glitches and infinites are cheap. "You use the word cheap, I use the word unbalanced." Didn't get you there, if both sides have the same chance of being cheap, it's not unbalanced. It may mean that certain character has a move that he shouldn't or that one move has a property it shouldn't or that property should be lowered. "This isn't the KOF forum." Believe me, I know. "I get it these people aren't too popular. As i said before the quote was seperate from the text." Dunno if they're popular or not, I judge them for their actions in this thread. And I though the quote was part of the text, as it seemed what other people said. "I say there is no cheapness IN the game. Only when there isn't equal playing ground opportunity between you and your opponent." Well, I think everything boils down to each one's opinion. I think your thoughs are more related to the balance issue (which is another deep subject) but well, it's how you see it. BTW, maybe you can tell me what is all that fuzz about the places in team US, I talk about that Eddie guy, can you explain me what happened? Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 01:48 AM: Didn't get you there, if both sides have the same chance of being cheap, it's not unbalanced. It may mean that certain character has a move that he shouldn't or that one move has a property it shouldn't or that property should be lowered. But as i said before i belive nothing in the game is cheap, Just unbalanced when the teams aren't even. I told you i associate cheapness more to cheating. Well, I think everything boils down to each one's opinion. I think your thoughs are more related to the balance issue (which is another deep subject) but well, it's how you see it. Yup i'm glad we were able to clear things up. BTW, maybe you can tell me what is all that fuzz about the places in team US, I talk about that Eddie guy, can you explain me what happened? I have no idea, he probably did something at a tournament that pissed people off. It probably had to do with something similar to our debate. People get sensitive and say things they don't mean in the heat of battle. Your guess is as good as mine. Well looks like that about wrapps it up. I guess i'll have to say something against your grain again so that you can say everybody proved me wrong and that i'm stupid so we can start another battle so i can shoot down everything you say. j/k [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by Kamui on 01:31:2001 04:43 AM: "LOL. Good one man. BTW do you remember that Iron Maiden song, The Clairvoyant? "Just by looking through your eyes he could see the future penetrating right into your mind, see the truth and see your lies, but for all his power COULDN'T foresee his own demise". Woah people here do have that kinda power heh heh" Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental state is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented. Everybody thinks there special and or different, but there not, we are all just mixed cases of the same ideas. Same goes for fighters. %99.9 of the people who play arent paticularly special. Only that %0.1 truly know what there doing. I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book. I use to be just like you, i dont need to be able to read your mind :/ As for the plug in im not sure. Try doing a search like ".asf extension". What kind of movie players are you using? quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok if that's your opinion what can I say? Posted by ImMature on 01:31:2001 05:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental state is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented. Everybody thinks there special and or different, but there not, we are all just mixed cases of the same ideas. Same goes for fighters. Erm Kamui just 2 things here: a) Those shrinks you mention have actually studied Psychiatry before they start analyzing people b) Nevertheless more often than not they screw up with their diagnostics anyways quote: Originally posted by Kamui: %99.9 of the people who play arent paticularly special. Only that %0.1 truly know what there doing. Heh I could ask ya the source for that little statistic but it'd be way too cheap of me quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book. I use to be just like you, i dont need to be able to read your mind :/ You're 19, ain't ya? Do you realize that Ryoga and I are older than you? How come we 2 haven't "evolved" yet then? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: As for the plug in im not sure. Try doing a search like ".asf extension". What kind of movie players are you using? Dunno; Quicktime, Windows Media, RealPlayer and the such... Posted by Kamui on 01:31:2001 06:20 AM: Im 20. However just becuase your older than mean deosnt mean your not confined by your own anger. The same reason why 40 year olds are still seeing shrinks. Many a older man has accused athletes of using steroids becuase he lost to them previously(a case in last years olympics, ofcourse his accusations were false). Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well, not to say your stupid ofcourse. Just try the search as i said, other than that im not sure where to find the plug in.... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Dunno; Quicktime, Windows Media, RealPlayer and the such... Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 04:05 PM: "But as i said before i belive nothing in the game is cheap, Just unbalanced when the teams aren't even. I told you i associate cheapness more to cheating." Oh, OK. "get sensitive and say things they don't mean in the heat of battle." Yup. BTW, do you Americans need a visa to enter Japan? Odd thing as I don't need one for a short stay (14 days). "I guess i'll have to say something against your grain again so that you can say everybody proved me wrong and that i'm stupid so we can start another battle so i can shoot down everything you say." You do it . Hey, you may start a "balance in games" thread like Seth Killian (but you better don't do it the way he did). Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 04:25 PM: Kamui: "Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental state is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented." Heh, not only they studied that, but it also boils down to the school they follow. Freudian school is useless as everything is related to sex, I don't mean that many problems are related to sex, but my gamming ability is surely not (or I would be better than japs ). BTW, there are some psychological tests they do before you enter to work. The stupidest one is drawing a guy under the rain. If you draw it with nothing else but a minimum clothing, then you're someone who doesn't take precautions (liking rainy days is out of question), you must draw him with an umbrella, and it gives you more points to draw him with a long overcoat (if it's not your dressing style you'll never have a high score) and if you draw it with pockets it's better (if you're applying for a programmer job, then you're probably not Da Vinci). The remaining tests are as retarded as that, so I think psychology doesn't work too much, it only helps people to talk about their problems and release what they were carrying but nothing like learning mindsets or stuff like that. "I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book." Tell me, does that book comes with pictures on it? I talked here about anticipation and it seemed like I was talking in ancient Chinese, but you can read me like a book, yeah sure. "I use to be just like you, i dont need to be able to read your mind" Yeah, tell me, how do I play? "Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well" Yeap, ImMature, you always have users and people who praises Microsoft. If you ever read the tech service mocks you'll know what I mean. But I think this is not the case. BTW, I bet you can read any Hong Kong guy mindset and defeat them at KoF right? ImMature, if you try to open an .asf while connected it will download the plugin, you may also download the latest media player. Posted by satsuinohadojosh on 01:31:2001 04:28 PM: I posted to this topic like a week ago. are we still on this? all i ask is that you play with style, its just boring seeing the same shit over and over, thats all. its suck when people play to win, they dont play for fun. thats what all this comes down to. you wanna win? or you wanna have fun? personally, id rather have fun. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/bonsai/akuma.jpg "But... I'm a Fucking Demon!" Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 09:16 PM: O.Ryoga: Read what i posted in "MvC2: Balanced?" Are you ready for round 2? I'm going to use my post there to start my own topic on this subject too. You should fight that insane as well. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by ImMature on 01:31:2001 11:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well, not to say your stupid ofcourse. Not to say I'm 40 neither I hope. Heh although I still can remember Space Invaders like it was yesterday I'm not that old yet. So what you're saying is that the reason why we haven't "evolved" yet is cause we're "confined by our own anger"? Any tip to get over it then?? We just wanna become Xmen like most people here at SRK.com, Prof. Xavier sir quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book." Tell me, does that book comes with pictures on it? I talked here about anticipation and it seemed like I was talking in ancient Chinese, but you can read me like a book, yeah sure. LOL!! quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Yeap, ImMature, you always have users and people who praises Microsoft. If you ever read the tech service mocks you'll know what I mean. Hell YEAH. I'm *afraid* I know BTW do you know that I've became a Güindous defender lately? Had to, learning how to program the API is so much work that one doesn't feel like learning how to program for other OSs anymore...Fuck Micro$oft anyways! quote: Originally posted by Kamui: ImMature, if you try to open an .asf while connected it will download the plugin, you may also download the latest media player. Ok thanks, I'll try ASAP Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 12:27 AM: "Not to say I'm 40 neither I hope. Heh although I still can remember Space Invaders like it was yesterday I'm not that old yet. So what you're saying is that the reason why we haven't "evolved" yet is cause we're "confined by our own anger"? Any tip to get over it then?? We just wanna become Xmen like most people here at SRK.com, Prof. Xavier sir" Sure, just go out and get bitten by a radio active spider or something :P It all boils down to my main arguement, the reason your still activly protesting against "cheapness" is becuase you have lost to it in some shape or form many times before. Becuase of the simplicity of the way he or she beat you, you think its scrubbish, hence "you are confined by your own anger". I was at a CvS tourney this weekend. Mark Rygoyski(#2 SF3 player in Texas) had entered with his Sakura, Ex Yuri, Ryu team. During one match he tick throwed the guy he was playing 3 times in a row, the guy was obviously not looking for it and got nailed. However two MAJOR scrubs sitting next to me were making comments like "this is making me sick", "this guy obviously has no skill". Before they made those comments Mark had nailed his opponent with my trademark 10 hit Sakura combo i showed him. The guys were like "oh cool!". I started to argue with them calling Mark a scrub as he obviously isnt, there main argument was "Theres no skill involved when thats all he can do", even though by O.Ryogas standards he did land a "cool flashy combo"(Check his posts in the Dumb SNK Lemmings thread, thats a quote) multiple times and had a good poke game going. These 2 scrubs that got absolutly no where in the tourney(they didnt even win a match)still had the gall to call Mark a scrub. You and Ryoga sound like those fools, and although i think your better than they were, you should still think about what your saying... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok thanks, I'll try ASAP [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-31-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 05:16 PM: Heh, I almost forgot Kamui. Your story is nice and fancy but, you know, most of these guys you consider so high (I'm talking about top tier players in US) never gave enough time to the games to use very varied characters, facing defeat before a Q player. So, you found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't have anything to do with me. Did you read where I said that all moves can be used in tourneys? Did you noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to death, it's ok to do so? (if he's falling for that he may also fall for something more complicated as a 10 hit combo so it's your choice to do so or not). I remember Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him he would tell him which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each other). Do I need to tell you that was complete crap? Beware of the Japanese controllers!!!! Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 07:30 PM: "So, you found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't have anything to do with me." YES IT DOES. Even though you havent been listening, your argument is EXACTLY LIKE THERES IS. In no way is your argument any better than theres even thought you think or may be a better player. WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!? "Did you read where I said that all moves can be used in tourneys? Did you noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to death, it's ok to do so? (if he's falling for that he may also fall for something more complicated as a 10 hit combo so it's your choice to do so or not). " AGAIN, in the Dumb SNK lemmings thread, you said that you thought throwing more than 3 times in succesion was cheap :/ Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern. Its safer to attempt a throw and than you land a simple cross up or low combo. Its not about skill, its about BRAINS. It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney situation or not, what works, works and is valid in any situation whether you think its "boring" or not. BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is not boring, its hilarious. "I remember Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him he would tell him which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each other). Do I need to tell you that was complete crap?" Why should i care? I dont know nor talk to Valle at all. This another attempt from you to try and put me in the same group as these idol lovers here at SRK. "Beware of the Japanese controllers!!!!" Why, jap joysticks are nice. However i know what your talking about and althought there really good sticks, they take time to get used to, just like any other controll device. You dont realise how different Jap joysticks are from American joysticks, I doubt you have had experience with both to know the difference as you live in nether countries. Besides Complaining about joystick problems is a better excuse than "its boring". quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Heh, I almost forgot Kamui. Your story is nice and fancy but, you know, most of these guys you consider so high (I'm talking about top tier players in US) never gave enough time to the games to use very varied characters, facing defeat before a Q player. So, you found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't have anything to do with me. Did you read where I said that all moves can be used in tourneys? Did you noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to death, it's ok to do so? (if he's falling for that he may also fall for something more complicated as a 10 hit combo so it's your choice to do so or not). I remember Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him he would tell him which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each other). Do I need to tell you that was complete crap? Beware of the Japanese controllers!!!! Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 07:50 PM: Awww, give me a break!!! "WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?" So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter when you explain me this. "Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern...Its not about skill, its about BRAINS" Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have a brain problem. "It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney situation or not, what works, works and is valid in any situation whether you think its "boring" or not." So, if it's working why change it? Well, the answer is simple most of the times, the one that relies in one pattern is the one that doesn't have anything else to show. In a real challenge I may take the safe path, while during a common match I may try something better or experiment something else to the safe answer. Hey I may come up with a brand new technique or a complete defeat but at least I tried. "BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is not boring, its hilarious." Sure. "This another attempt from you to try and put me in the same group as these idol lovers here at SRK." Nah, I if I tried to do so I would have told you that. I was talking about your ability to read people's mindset using the big champ (or chimp) as an example. As everyone in SRK believes in that crap. "they take time to get used to" But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it. I once played with a Jap stick at Garou, and I wasn't unable to do stuff. In my country, sticks are mostly wacked and have the same style that US ones (guess the machines are imported from the US and not from Japan). "Besides Complaining about joystick problems is a better excuse than "its boring"." Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great excuse. (sarcasm alert) Posted by ImMature on 02:01:2001 09:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: YES IT DOES. Even though you havent been listening, your argument is EXACTLY LIKE THERES IS. In no way is your argument any better than theres even thought you think or may be a better player. WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!? Maybe the fact that we have stated THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of times already that when someone loses to cheap tactics or whatsoever he better SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TRAIN HARDER instead of making up excuses. So what do those guys you mentioned have to do with us then?? Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 10:18 PM: What do they have to do with you??? I just said that your arguments are exactly theres is, and they were terrible players. In other words, for someone who acts like they beat such tactics everyday you sure sound like the people who cant. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Maybe the fact that we have stated THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of times already that when someone loses to cheap tactics or whatsoever he better SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TRAIN HARDER instead of making up excuses. So what do those guys you mentioned have to do with us then?? Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 11:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: What do they have to do with you??? I just said that your arguments are exactly theres is, and they were terrible players. In other words, for someone who acts like they beat such tactics everyday you sure sound like the people who cant. Yawwwwnnnnnn, gee I really have spare time at work (well, I should be working). So, they talked as they though like us. See, if you bring the Hong Kong champion to a tourney where a guy throws three times in a row to his opponent, what do you think he will say? Now, Hong Kong guys must be terrible players, don't you think? And those japs, I can't get how someone can be so pathetic at MvsC2 (more sarcasm). Bottom line is, many people may have the same opinion on a subject regardless of their gamming ability. Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 05:09 AM: "So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter when you explain me this." Yes you are. Which meaning am i using? Well you sound just like most whining fools that suck at fighters in general, or thats what you sound like. Opinion comes from experience, and no one would be saying what your saying unless they were constantly losing to your deffiniton of cheap. "Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have a brain problem." I can already see it happening to you. BTW go read Seth's new article, it completely destroys your argument. "But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it." Yes i have a NGCP, and the controller is not very good. Oh and im quite sure Valle and Choi arent in Japan everyday of the year, so they havent had even a year to experience Jap joysticks :/ "Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great excuse." Muahahahaha, yeap, complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked by a turtle is great excuse. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Awww, give me a break!!! "WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?" So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter when you explain me this. "Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern...Its not about skill, its about BRAINS" Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have a brain problem. "It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney situation or not, what works, works and is valid in any situation whether you think its "boring" or not." So, if it's working why change it? Well, the answer is simple most of the times, the one that relies in one pattern is the one that doesn't have anything else to show. In a real challenge I may take the safe path, while during a common match I may try something better or experiment something else to the safe answer. Hey I may come up with a brand new technique or a complete defeat but at least I tried. "BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is not boring, its hilarious." Sure. "This another attempt from you to try and put me in the same group as these idol lovers here at SRK." Nah, I if I tried to do so I would have told you that. I was talking about your ability to read people's mindset using the big champ (or chimp) as an example. As everyone in SRK believes in that crap. "they take time to get used to" But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it. I once played with a Jap stick at Garou, and I wasn't unable to do stuff. In my country, sticks are mostly wacked and have the same style that US ones (guess the machines are imported from the US and not from Japan). "Besides Complaining about joystick problems is a better excuse than "its boring"." Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great excuse. (sarcasm alert) Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 05:19 AM: "See, if you bring the Hong Kong champion to a tourney where a guy throws three times in a row to his opponent, what do you think he will say?" Well after seeing the KOF tourney vids from Singapore im not sure what he would say. All they did was jumping attacks, im not even exagerating this time, they were just pure low jumping the ENTIRE game. Apparently these were the best players in Singapore as well. If my argument is correct(which it is BTW :P) the mentality behind this type of play is of pure flash, no "cheese", and landing a big combo(but ofcourse not too big as that would be against the rules, right). If some idiot decided to complain about what was cheap one day and convinced an entire country of this, then the type of play im seeing would make much sense and in the end, those players arent really even that good, theve just avoiding having to deal with anything truly effective by killing it off before someone could use it by calling it "cheap". You talk about people doing repedetive patterns and such being scrubby even though these guys were jumping and only jumping, incredibly damn repedetive. Bieng totally and udderly random seems pretty scrubby too, but is that banned to by your standards? quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Yawwwwnnnnnn, gee I really have spare time at work (well, I should be working). So, they talked as they though like us. See, if you bring the Hong Kong champion to a tourney where a guy throws three times in a row to his opponent, what do you think he will say? Now, Hong Kong guys must be terrible players, don't you think? And those japs, I can't get how someone can be so pathetic at MvsC2 (more sarcasm). Bottom line is, many people may have the same opinion on a subject regardless of their gamming ability. Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 08:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Yes you are. Which meaning am i using? Well you sound just like most whining fools that suck at fighters in general, or thats what you sound like. Opinion comes from experience, and no one would be saying what your saying unless they were constantly losing to your deffiniton of cheap. Heh chi style of arguing yet *again*. Oh well, you think you can read minds and tell how do we play from such a long distance, we think you CAN'T. It's a matter of stubbornness after all (that's the reason why I wouldn't start seriously arguing with chi neither, y'know?) BTW Kamui have you ever realized that the fack of you and us being from different areas can make all those experience about players' mindsets you say you have totally useless in this discussion? I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's cheapness, you'd hardly find anyone complaining about it in my area. So what do you think about this then? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: I can already see it happening to you. BTW go read Seth's new article, it completely destroys your argument. Seth AGAIN!!! Oh my gawd Kamui, I never thought you were one of Them too...If you wanna "destroy our argument" why don't you just try to by yourself?? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Muahahahaha, yeap, complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked by a turtle is great excuse. Ok now I see. There are only 2 possibilities here, EXACTLY LIKE USES TO HAPPEN WITH CHI HERSELF: a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded person in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most people here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with such an attitude?!?) ^OR^ b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to try to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument So which would it be? Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 09:49 AM: "BTW Kamui have you ever realized that the fack of you and us being from different areas can make all those experience about players' mindsets you say you have totally useless in this discussion? I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's cheapness, you'd hardly find anyone complaining about it in my area. So what do you think about this then" BLAH. It deosnt matter where your from, we all feel the same emotions, and i can guarantee they do, your ether lying or there quiet about it. Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that. "a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded person in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most people here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with such an attitude?!?) ^OR^ b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to try to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument So which would it be?" Nether. Apparantly if i cant guess what the backing of your mentality is then you cant guess mine. Correct? Or am i right assume what i have already? Its funny that you call me closed minded becuase i dont sgree with what your saying. I dont agree with you and nor do you agree with me, so your just as closed minded as i am apparantly. You truly are as bad as Seth. You 2 could get along quite easily. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok now I see. There are only 2 possibilities here, EXACTLY LIKE USES TO HAPPEN WITH CHI HERSELF: a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded person in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most people here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with such an attitude?!?) ^OR^ b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to try to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument So which would it be? [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-01-2001).] [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-01-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: BLAH. It deosnt matter where your from, we all feel the same emotions, and i can guarantee they do, your ether lying or there quiet about it. Hah you ever heard about 'relativity'? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that. When did I say that? And it's that relevant at all? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Its funny that you call me closed minded becuase i dont sgree with what your saying. Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of wining the argument Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 12:22 PM: "Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of wining the argument" WHAT?!?!? ARE YOU RETARDED? THIS WAS YOUR LAST QUOTE: "I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's cheapness, YOU'D HARDLY FIND ANYONE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT IN MY AREA" So if when i said: "Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that." Then i just demolished your agrument, COOKIE FOR ME MAKING THINGS UP?!?!?! YOU JUST SAID THAT ONE PARAGRAPH A LINE AGO, DID YOU ALREADY FORGET? KIND OF A SLAP IN THE FACE ISNT IT. Everything else i said you said were not lies and have been picked out of other arguments of yours from the Dumb SNK lemmings thread and such. I dont make things up, and i have been listening to your lame points. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of wining the argument [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-02-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 04:32 PM: As ImMature says, Oh Mai!!! We have another Seth follower. Yeap, a follower of the guy who said SNK fans are Lemmings when Crapcom fans follow him to the abyss like the real Lemmings do when they're overpopulated (well, in the US they're overpopulated compared to SNK players). "Well you sound just like most whining fools that suck at fighters in general" Oh yeah, even though that I said losing to cheapness meant you weren't a good player. "I can already see it happening to you." Huh? You really are a clairvoyant. Hey, fortune teller, post 6 numbers from 0 - 44 so I can try and play to the lottery. "and the controller is not very good" Now I know I'm talking with the dumbest person in the world. Everybody knows (and I have the handheld btw) that the controller is the best there is, very responsive, you never miss a move (if you lose it's your fault not the controller). "complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked by a turtle is great excuse" Getting rocked by a turtle? Man, you're really brainwashed if you think you're seeing something from that distance. See the video of Chen vs Valle, Valle was doing low kicks all the time. "Well after seeing the KOF tourney vids from Singapore im not sure what he would say." Where were them? The last time you talked crap about KoF players, you directed me to a common match. "the mentality behind this type of play is of pure flash, no "cheese", and landing a big combo" Nope, it's finding and creating a spot and making a combo using fast reflexes to outmatch the opponent. But hey, US players tend to go for an easy trap and block damage (that's why they say Cable is god and Servot is the shittiest character). "If some idiot decided to complain about what was cheap one day and convinced an entire country of this" The only type of idiots that can do that are politicians (did I write it right?). And all I see here is one idiot with no s-kill that convinced a whole country they were doing the right thing even when they lost so bad in an international tourney. "those players arent really even that good, theve just avoiding having to deal with anything truly effective by killing it off before someone could use it by calling it "cheap"." Oh yeah, they suck bad, that's why they defeated team England (which btw didn't have the same set of rules). You have no point at all, guess that if I read Seth's new article, I'll find most of the stuff you posted here. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 05:38 PM: Hey Kamui, I've just read Seth's article, and all I can say is that you're falling in the scrub category (if we consider his definition). BTW, what a bunch of ass kissing assholes, I couldn't read the entire thread 'cause it was disgusting. Posted by Sabin on 02:02:2001 05:47 PM: Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like to say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye now. - Arturo (yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.) LOL. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 08:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sabin: Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like to say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye now. - Arturo (yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.) LOL. Huh, we were missing you. I mean, those talented remarks. I'm glad to see we entertain you (this is what boards are for, remember?) yet I'm wondering which posts did you read. BTW, Kamui is just in denial to look good on this board so don't take him that serious. BTW, when did anyone say that being a Seth follower made you unable to play SF games? When did retardness stop people from becoming top tier players at MvsC2? /forums/biggrin.gif Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: WHAT?!?!? ARE YOU RETARDED? THIS WAS YOUR LAST QUOTE: Tsk, such an anger. This is EXACTLY what makes Yojimbo kick your lame ass in every argument you have, y'know? He's way smarter. Now I could insult you back, of course, but as you see, you weak reaction doesn't infuriate me the very least. So better luck next time quote: Originally posted by Kamui: "I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's cheapness, YOU'D HARDLY FIND ANYONE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT IN MY AREA" So if when i said: "Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that." Then i just demolished your agrument, COOKIE FOR ME Yeah keep dreaming (like chi'd do yet again). What I asked was, "Is Cheapness being not a big cause of whines among scrubs in my area RELEVANT at all in this argument"?, "Does it prove the non-existance of Cheapness?". Oh Mai, all you SRK.com guys do is talking about scrubs all day (I wonder why) Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sabin: Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like to say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye now. Oh you managed to actually read the thread this time? Good for you Dasr...I mean, Arturito quote: Originally posted by Sabin: (yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.) LOL. Okaaaay, we already know you're a super duper MvC2 trooper. Stop repeating it, we're not impressed. Now if you talk about a REAL game you are good at, maybe you'll earn any respect from us... Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:02:2001 10:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Hey Kamui, I've just read Seth's article, and all I can say is that you're falling in the scrub category (if we consider his definition). BTW, what a bunch of ass kissing assholes, I couldn't read the entire thread 'cause it was disgusting. OH MY GOD, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!!! For a moment I thought that some coherent ideas and arguments were actually being discussed. Now the flaming and the shaming has begun again. Oh well. It seems that Kamui is determined to argue this point until everyone agrees with him. STOP WASTING YOUR BREATH, KAMUI. These guys will never agree with you or your points, you're just giving them infinite entertainment by continuosly posting and answering them. Don't devote your life to proving that you're right. Just let it slide. Peace. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Gamer X on 02:02:2001 11:14 PM: I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS SHIT!!!! Let it go and talk about something else. No matter what fighting game you are playing, no matter how balanced, inbalanced, working joysticks, gliches and bugs there always be some unfair way of winning a game. Call it "cheap" or call it "skill" just let this subject die please and... Just play the damn game and quit cring. Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 03:57 AM: WTF, again, thank you Immature, you just avoided my point AGAIN. I just put you on the spot called you on your mistake and instead of defending against it you ignored it and again are starting to call me "Chi" again. AND it is very relevant, it all comes down to dumb scrubs whining about cheapness in the end. quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Yeah keep dreaming (like chi'd do yet again). What I asked was, "Is Cheapness being not a big cause of whines among scrubs in my area RELEVANT at all in this argument"?, "Does it prove the non-existance of Cheapness?". Oh Mai, all you SRK.com guys do is talking about scrubs all day (I wonder why) Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 03:58 AM: "super duper MvC2 trooper" LOL. As much as i disagree, thats a great line, mind if i use it? quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Okaaaay, we already know you're a super duper MvC2 trooper. Stop repeating it, we're not impressed. Now if you talk about a REAL game you are good at, maybe you'll earn any respect from us... Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 04:30 AM: Nope sorry. i have to keep going. I dont drop arguments for anything, never have never will. It only takes 15 minutes of my day to answer to them anyways. quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: OH MY GOD, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!!! For a moment I thought that some coherent ideas and arguments were actually being discussed. Now the flaming and the shaming has begun again. Oh well. It seems that Kamui is determined to argue this point until everyone agrees with him. STOP WASTING YOUR BREATH, KAMUI. These guys will never agree with you or your points, you're just giving them infinite entertainment by continuosly posting and answering them. Don't devote your life to proving that you're right. Just let it slide. Peace. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif"> "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 04:46 AM: .........Ugh...I dont care what people on this forum think of me. Thnx for insulting me now i get bashing rights...Your an idiot, plain and simple. You still havent gotten over your own ignorance. Everyday, every word, every thought of negativity towards what you think is cheap is making you into worse player everyday. I know from personal experience, why you think your different from everyone else is beyond me, becuase your not. Deluding yourself into thinking anything is cheap is only your innability to deal with it. No one on this earth comes up with such generalizations from winning, no one. Only such ideals emerge when your losing, and offer you emotional protection. Your human, i understand why you do it. Its too bad your to "little" to get over such a "hump". No your not a good player, i know your not. Your ideal has earned you nothing but an easy way out, youll never know what true depth/skill is. Its too bad really, after watching a few recent games ive been able to see a few good players use REAL strategy when playing KOF, the game you love so much. But, youll never play it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your mentality is destroying the game, not SNK merging with Aruze. Goto kofonline.com and download the recent Sinagpore tourney videos. How many times did they jump? They didnt use strategy, they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo, being nothing but offensive. You can do that with any character. There is no strategy involved in that, and thats exactly the play style that your belief is leading too...Your a scrub, get over it and redeem yourself. Become a better player, change your mindset like i did a year ago. Dont let fears of such things as "cheapness" own you. quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Huh, we were missing you. I mean, those talented remarks. I'm glad to see we entertain you (this is what boards are for, remember?) yet I'm wondering which posts did you read. BTW, Kamui is just in denial to look good on this board so don't take him that serious. BTW, when did anyone say that being a Seth follower made you unable to play SF games? When did retardness stop people from becoming top tier players at MvsC2? <IMG SRC="/forums/biggrin.gif"> Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:03:2001 05:46 PM: Awwww...Kamui is becoming tense and has started whinning. "I dont care what people on this forum think of me." That's being on denial. Reading some of the replies to Seth articles and seeing how you blindly used them, not seeing you were following into his precious definition of scrub makes you seem you try to agree without thinking. "Thnx for insulting me now" Which one was my insult? You insulted ImMature calling him a retard and both of us with the multiple use "scrub" word. Now you are whinning, you should take defeats like a man and not cry "cheapness" to the winner. "Your an idiot, plain and simple." Aww, I'm touched. (sarcasm alert) "You still havent gotten over your own ignorance." Heh, more nonsense bashing. You've lost the line kid. You should try to get away from videogames a while, you're taking them too seriously (this last sentence was not a joke). "Everyday, every word, every thought of negativity towards what you think is cheap is making you into worse player everyday." Nope. You see, I've used cheap tactics as it's the only way to know how to overcome them, while other people seem to rely on them. Think what you want, but taking the "cheapness existance" discussion to the personal ground calling me a scrub and rambling about knowing my style is rather weak as an argument (as you really have no proof). "I know from personal experience, why you think your different from everyone else is beyond me, becuase your not." Sorry, the full comprehension of the human mind is beyond the abilities of a psychologist, so I don't think brag like you has such a developed sense. "Deluding yourself into thinking anything is cheap is only your innability to deal with it." Awww, how many times should I tell you it's not about losing to something (I gave you plenty of cheap tactics with their countermeasures but you seem to skip them). "No one on this earth comes up with such generalizations from winning, no one." What are you crying about? "Only such ideals emerge when your losing, and offer you emotional protection. Your human, i understand why you do it." Sorry but I stopped being mommy's kid long ago. If you need emotional protection over defeats, then I'm sorry about you. "No your not a good player, i know your not." I can read minds! I can read your mind! Can't I mom? "Your ideal has earned you nothing but an easy way out, youll never know what true depth/skill is." Oh yeah!!! See, Japs have those ideals and they don't seem to have earned anything to you (they lost badly at MvsC2, right?). On the other hand US players have, and they have superior skills. Obviously I'm being sarcastic, it's noticeable that US players don't try characters unless they are regarded as effective or easy to use (Q was underrated before the trip to Japan remember?) while japs try everything in the game and not only what it's working, giving them the advantage. "But, youll never play it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your mentality is destroying the game, not SNK merging with Aruze." Yeap, I'm in a campaign against KoF. Note more sarcasm, you're not making sense at all. "They didnt use strategy, they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo, being nothing but offensive." I've explained you the insights of that style, but if you don't get it (or it's too hard for you to do so) I cannot do anything to help you. I don't play the overoffensive style not because I think it's cheap, I just don't enjoy it. Your strategy is having two traps and repeat them ad infinitum regardless of what your opponent is throwing at you. "Your a scrub, get over it and redeem yourself." Or father Torquemada will punish me. Sorry, but I'm no scrub, sure I'm not one of those guys that pretend are the greatest winners and they don't figure in any world wide tourney. "Become a better player, change your mindset like i did a year ago. Dont let fears of such things as "cheapness" own you." So, become a blind follower of the cult and stop thinking. What makes you think I fear anything? I don't fear any technique, I don't even fear defeat (and I never come up with excuses). So stop crying over defeats, nobody does (not in my area) and believe me I'm not the exception. Posted by Jusatsu on 02:03:2001 05:47 PM: SHUT UP http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/sig.jpg Tyler says use soap. The army uses guns. Dealers say do dope. The pope tends to do nuns. The lovers say elope. The french use kilotons. I tend to use Gato. MOU-KO KOU HAZAN!!! Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 10:42 PM: Well im done with this topic. Your not listening. Becuase of your inability to understand youve come up with lines like "Your not making any sense" when i make perfect sense. You also keep mentioning ive been defeated without you putting up any real argument, signs of the real loser. Ok im done, good luck to you and your quest for KOF enlightenment :/ quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Awwww...Kamui is becoming tense and has started whinning. "I dont care what people on this forum think of me." That's being on denial. Reading some of the replies to Seth articles and seeing how you blindly used them, not seeing you were following into his precious definition of scrub makes you seem you try to agree without thinking. "Thnx for insulting me now" Which one was my insult? You insulted ImMature calling him a retard and both of us with the multiple use "scrub" word. Now you are whinning, you should take defeats like a man and not cry "cheapness" to the winner. "Your an idiot, plain and simple." Aww, I'm touched. (sarcasm alert) "You still havent gotten over your own ignorance." Heh, more nonsense bashing. You've lost the line kid. You should try to get away from videogames a while, you're taking them too seriously (this last sentence was not a joke). "Everyday, every word, every thought of negativity towards what you think is cheap is making you into worse player everyday." Nope. You see, I've used cheap tactics as it's the only way to know how to overcome them, while other people seem to rely on them. Think what you want, but taking the "cheapness existance" discussion to the personal ground calling me a scrub and rambling about knowing my style is rather weak as an argument (as you really have no proof). "I know from personal experience, why you think your different from everyone else is beyond me, becuase your not." Sorry, the full comprehension of the human mind is beyond the abilities of a psychologist, so I don't think brag like you has such a developed sense. "Deluding yourself into thinking anything is cheap is only your innability to deal with it." Awww, how many times should I tell you it's not about losing to something (I gave you plenty of cheap tactics with their countermeasures but you seem to skip them). "No one on this earth comes up with such generalizations from winning, no one." What are you crying about? "Only such ideals emerge when your losing, and offer you emotional protection. Your human, i understand why you do it." Sorry but I stopped being mommy's kid long ago. If you need emotional protection over defeats, then I'm sorry about you. "No your not a good player, i know your not." I can read minds! I can read your mind! Can't I mom? "Your ideal has earned you nothing but an easy way out, youll never know what true depth/skill is." Oh yeah!!! See, Japs have those ideals and they don't seem to have earned anything to you (they lost badly at MvsC2, right?). On the other hand US players have, and they have superior skills. Obviously I'm being sarcastic, it's noticeable that US players don't try characters unless they are regarded as effective or easy to use (Q was underrated before the trip to Japan remember?) while japs try everything in the game and not only what it's working, giving them the advantage. "But, youll never play it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your mentality is destroying the game, not SNK merging with Aruze." Yeap, I'm in a campaign against KoF. Note more sarcasm, you're not making sense at all. "They didnt use strategy, they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo, being nothing but offensive." I've explained you the insights of that style, but if you don't get it (or it's too hard for you to do so) I cannot do anything to help you. I don't play the overoffensive style not because I think it's cheap, I just don't enjoy it. Your strategy is having two traps and repeat them ad infinitum regardless of what your opponent is throwing at you. "Your a scrub, get over it and redeem yourself." Or father Torquemada will punish me. Sorry, but I'm no scrub, sure I'm not one of those guys that pretend are the greatest winners and they don't figure in any world wide tourney. "Become a better player, change your mindset like i did a year ago. Dont let fears of such things as "cheapness" own you." So, become a blind follower of the cult and stop thinking. What makes you think I fear anything? I don't fear any technique, I don't even fear defeat (and I never come up with excuses). So stop crying over defeats, nobody does (not in my area) and believe me I'm not the exception. Posted by ImMature on 02:03:2001 11:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Well im done with this topic. Your not listening. Becuase of your inability to understand youve come up with lines like "Your not making any sense" when i make perfect sense. You also keep mentioning ive been defeated without you putting up any real argument, signs of the real loser. Ok im done, good luck to you and your quest for KOF enlightenment :/ Ok so you give it up too. NEXT! BTW like I said before at ON.com all your arguments can be sumarized like this: "If you disagree you're wrong, scrub". And we've already read that line before as it's the main argument among the Seth followers anyways... Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:04:2001 12:32 AM: I've always wonder about the frase "if it's in the game it was meant to be there" do we really know what that programer was thinking of when he came up with that section in the game! the answer is no. only the programer know what he/she was thinking of at the time. So for someone to say "that it was meant in the game" needs to rethink exactly what they are talking about. as for cheapness does exist it depends on the game itself there are some games where one character has a advantage over(unbreakable tactics)the other. or depending on which side you play on(I think it is in one of the alpha games can anyone comfirm this) so cheapness is subjective. It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is dumber. Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 01:22 AM: Thats not what i was saying at all, i was pointing out your mind set is that of most beginners, but again THAT DEOSNT MEAN YOU ARE ONE, only that i thought you may have missed something in your "quest". quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok so you give it up too. NEXT! BTW like I said before at ON.com all your arguments can be sumarized like this: "If you disagree you're wrong, scrub". And we've already read that line before as it's the main argument among the Seth followers anyways... Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 01:49 AM: Kamui - not to be off-topic, as it's typically one I choose to ignore, but I played you in the UH Tourney. Second round. Name's Adam, right? Good to meet you. Even if I didn't know you were you. http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 02:14 AM: You did? Who were you BTW? Oh wait, were you the white guy with glasses playing Magneto? quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite: Kamui - not to be off-topic, as it's typically one I choose to ignore, but I played you in the UH Tourney. Second round. Name's Adam, right? Good to meet you. Even if I didn't know you were you. <IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif"> Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 02:27 AM: Yep. White guy, glasses, Pioneer Premier shirt, playing Magneto. Shook your hand after game, said, "Good game." That was me. http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:04:2001 03:01 AM: I'm just curious would you consider the Red Venom/Spiderman lockdown "meant to be" or "cheap" you tell me. I've seen fist fights happen because of it. It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is dumber. Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 05:32 AM: Wierd, i had a feeling it was you. You seemed to play very well, ill be looking forward to watching you play again! Hehehe Im terrible at the game, and i dont play it, but it was fun acting like a moron playing Sakura :P quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite: Yep. White guy, glasses, Pioneer Premier shirt, playing Magneto. Shook your hand after game, said, "Good game." That was me. <IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif"> Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 05:36 AM: Ah, thanks, Kamui. If you're at all interested, me, NooNoo (he was at UH tourney also), KAOS, DarthSalamander (also at tourney), mopreme, and hsien will be at Einstein's tomorrow. Feel free to join. http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 06:42 AM: Ack, well i guessed i missed out, i just got the message. In any case ill talk to Mopreme about how it went... quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite: Ah, thanks, Kamui. If you're at all interested, me, NooNoo (he was at UH tourney also), KAOS, DarthSalamander (also at tourney), mopreme, and hsien will be at Einstein's tomorrow. Feel free to join. <IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif"> Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:04:2001 08:34 AM: Hooray, everyone's being friendly again, break out the Jack Daniel's, Tatoo!! Heh heh, right boss! Thank God, no more animosity. Of course, who's to say it won't start again? http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 09:07 AM: Actually it moved elsewhere. Im now the most hated person on Orochinagi.com apparently for trying to stop someone from using racist comments... quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Hooray, everyone's being friendly again, break out the Jack Daniel's, Tatoo!! Heh heh, right boss! Thank God, no more animosity. Of course, who's to say it won't start again? <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif"> "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by ImMature on 02:04:2001 09:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Actually it moved elsewhere. Im now the most hated person on Orochinagi.com apparently for trying to stop someone from using racist comments... This is simply NOT TRUE and you already know it. Or you should anyways. Just stop blaming others for you being unable to get a clue yet. Everybody who's read those threads already know YOU are the one acting like he has lost it totally... Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 10:18 AM: Haven't read any of the hundreds of posts before this one, but I'll just offer up my opinion on cheapness. It does exist, it just doesn't matter. Infinites are kind of cheap...MvC1 Wolvie was cheap, Guard Breaking is cheap, Gambit glitch is HELLA cheap. But if someone hits me with an infinite, or uses a Guard Break, I don't care. Just because something's cheap doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Gambit glitch is a whole different thing though...if someone glitches me with like 80 seconds left on the clock...that's pretty gay. Don't ask me to define "gay," because you all know what I mean. You just don't play that person anymore, or until they change teams. Even with the Gambit glitch though, there are ways to get around it (ie. kill Gambit). Game-breaking stuff should be kept out of tourneys not because it's cheap...but because it makes the game retarded. And the Gambit glitch does that extremely well. Gonna go read some of these posts now. Later. Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:04:2001 10:28 AM: Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be strong. Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 11:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be strong. Yup. Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 01:12 PM: Even though the subject of what's cheap isn't being talked about anymore, I'd just like to respond to something. quote: For all of you who have an 'anything goes' attitude on the games, ask tournament organizers why they do not allow Akuma to be played in Super Turbo tournaments. In fact, I'm asking it right now. Why isn't Akuma allowed to be played in tournament play in ST?? Do you want the long answer or the short answer? (By the way, the short answer is - you guessed it - 'cause he's CHEAP). For those of you who don't know much about this, Akuma in ST has a double-air fireball, almost twice as fast as other characters (literally), and has virtually no dizzy - among other things! He is not a glitch. Programmers put him in the game on purpose. Akuma isn't used, because he makes the game stupid. He's not Bison or Ryu or Dhalsim or Balrog, who are just really good...he devolves the whole game into Akuma vs Akuma match. And yes the programmers did put him in the game, but yes he IS a secret character. ST Akuma wasn't meant to be good...he was meant to be the best character in the game, and by a wide margin (and you just explained how it was done yourself). He shuts down Balrog, who is one of the best characters in the game, for absolutley free. Simply throwing a lot, or using throws/chip damage in the VS games doesn't come close to ST Akuma...they don't distill 32 playable characters down to 1. quote: Want another example? How about the different "isms" in SFA3? In a tournament, why can't I use the "ism" of my choice? It's in the game, right? Well... (see above) Because in some cases a single throw can do 100% damage. Makes the game stupid. And in A3 tournaments, your options are still very open for the most part. You can use A/V/X/N characters, so that's basically 112 possible playable characters given the size of the cast. Being able to end the match victorious simply because you pulled into the lead at some point or another for less than 5 seconds (MvC2 Gambit glitch), or taking off 90-100% because you landed one throw (L-ISM glitches), or shutting down every other character but the one you're playing (ST Gouki), doesn't equate with some of the examples given. Not with rolling back and forth with Blanka, not with some bad Honda playing vs a Ryu (I doubt your Honda skills greatly), and not the vast majority of things you can do in most fighting games. They don't break the game. If somebody can't get past something, let them know. "You know you can jab Blanka out of that roll." "You know in Hyper Fighting and afterwards Honda's butt drop will go through fireballs on start up. And you can jump straight up vs fireballs, and trading hits with Honda is almost always in his favor." If you want to educate somebody a little, and make them a better player...great. But don't blame others because they don't choose to do so. Though I suppose I personally am the worst of both worlds, as I neither educate, or give tough love...I just use time spent vs a bad opponent, practicing my own stuff. Hm. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. Have a good day, everybody. Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:05:2001 01:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be strong. the only glitch that is OK even in tourney plays eyes is the juggy glitch because it has know true major impact in the game. It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is dumber. Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 04:27 AM: Look, I dont want to keep this going for much longer, its just making me angry, but Endless has been doing this for a while, you stated so YOURSELF. No one can say it didnt bother them as everytime he did bring it up someone posted something about, just without the extremes of my attitude. Someone needs to do something about it. Nothing is going to change anything unless raving lunatic comes along to full out tell them where they went wrong. Again, i dont care if you think im a lunatic or not, hes gonna understand were he went wrong whether he fully admits it or not. You yourself may not be bother by it, but i guarantee im mnot the only one angered by such words... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: This is simply NOT TRUE and you already know it. Or you should anyways. Just stop blaming others for you being unable to get a clue yet. Everybody who's read those threads already know YOU are the one acting like he has lost it totally... [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-04-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Look, I dont want to keep this going for much longer, its just making me angry, but Endless has been doing this for a while, you stated so YOURSELF. No one can say it didnt bother them as everytime he did bring it up someone posted something about, just without the extremes of my attitude. Someone needs to do something about it. Yeah someone needs to GET A FUCKING CLUE for once. Guess who? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Nothing is going to change anything unless raving lunatic comes along to full out tell them where they went wrong. Again, i dont care if you think im a lunatic or not, hes gonna understand were he went wrong whether he fully admits it or not. You yourself may not be bother by it, but i guarantee im mnot the only one angered by such words... You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then?? Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:24 AM: Alright, that's it. I am sick and tired of this crap. I am only going to ask this question once, and if I don't get an intelligent response minus any flaming, I am going to puke. ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much trouble over it?? And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame people. Why? "Because they are Seth Followers, and they are Seth Followers because they disagree with me and O.Ryoga and their opinion just happens to coincide with Seth's, so they're just kissing up to him (well, only a few of them really are, but I can say they all are, can't I?)." In all honesty, why is it so important for you to prove that cheapness exists? Why do you care? http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 09:35 AM: "Yeah someone needs to GET A FUCKING CLUE for once. Guess who?" Thnx for ignoring what i said. Its the same reason Endless has stopped posting at the thread, becuase he knows what he said was stupid and the easiest way for him make himself look good is too let everybody else do his arguing for him(does this sound like someone who is sure enough about his own words when he cant even fight for himself?). "You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then?" Setsuna X, and Geese Howard both mentioned not agreeing with him, this time and the time before. Endless's "fact" keeps popping up in arguments, how many times are people going to have to kindly tell him were hes wrong before he stops? Theres been 3 major threads about his ideas already and his masterfull "line" has popped multiple times in arguments so he can prove his "point". Hes trying hard to get people to believe what he saying, which is you know is wrong. Let me ask you something. Ignoring whether you like me or not, ignoring that you even know Endless, do agree with him saying the remark at all??? Is it even needed??? Now you mentioned him saying it multiple times on another forum(other than the multiple times ive seen him say it already). The first time he said it i was very calm and quiet about my response and i kindly noted for him to atleast avoid saying it, he did again later. I asked him not to say it again, he said it anyways. How long did i have to be nice to him before i would stop bieng a total ass about a touchy subject as it is? Please answer me atleast this.... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then?? Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:05:2001 09:37 AM: I hope all threads about cheapness end. We all are players here, so let's just play ball! There's no room for crying in gaming. Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brandon Lee: I hope all threads about cheapness end. We all are players here, so let's just play ball! There's no room for crying in gaming. Exactly what I was saying! Thank you Brandon! Why does everyone care about cheapness? It's no big deal! http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 09:42 AM: WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH....Calm down...We arent talking about that anymore, this is about another issue. The cheapness argument is over...No need to worry about it, its gone. quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Alright, that's it. I am sick and tired of this crap. I am only going to ask this question once, and if I don't get an intelligent response minus any flaming, I am going to puke. ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much trouble over it?? And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame people. Why? "Because they are Seth Followers, and they are Seth Followers because they disagree with me and O.Ryoga and their opinion just happens to coincide with Seth's, so they're just kissing up to him (well, only a few of them really are, but I can say they all are, can't I?)." In all honesty, why is it so important for you to prove that cheapness exists? Why do you care? <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif"> "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:05:2001 09:45 AM: If you think the game is cheap, then why would you play it? Why would you waste your money playing a game you do not like? Complaining about the game will not change a thing. Unless you talk to Capcom, there is nothing you can do but play the game and deal with it or just refuse to play. It is really that simple. Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH....Calm down...We arent talking about that anymore, this is about another issue. The cheapness argument is over...No need to worry about it, its gone. That's one of my complaints, Kamui. No one's talking about the topic anymore, it's turned into a personal issue and flame session, which is stupid. I just want to know why everyone is so bent on proving that cheapness exists that they would carry this crap on for so long. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 09:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much trouble over it?? Ok now you're asking an interesting question. Why am I making so much trouble over it? Well you've registered at ON.com already, so now go and check if I'm complaining about Cheapness all day there (meaning in KOF forums) or not. OF COURSE I'm not. Do you wanna know what really makes me sick about all this? That someone (Seth) starts making up really far-fectched theories ONLY SRK.com people seem to believe IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD and almost EVERYBODY here BUYS it like it was a divine revelation or something, forgetting about what both COMMON SENSE & EXPERIENCE tells ya to believe. Most people here hasn't got either the brains or the balls to start disagreeing with the top tiers/the majority here cause there is always a lot of guys (like yourself BTW) ready to start ganging up on the one who DARES to do such a thing. It's JUST THE SAME THING that makes me sick about Nazis, Christian fundamentalists and the likes of 'em: they're just a bunch of close-minded self-righteous FUCKWITS who happen to think they know it all and that everyone else is wrong *BEFOREHAND* quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame people. I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 10:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok now you're asking an interesting question. Why am I making so much trouble over it? Well you've registered at ON.com already, so now go and check if I'm complaining about Cheapness all day there (meaning in KOF forums) or not. OF COURSE I'm not. Do you wanna know what really makes me sick about all this? That someone (Seth) starts making up really far-fectched theories ONLY SRK.com people seem to believe IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD and almost EVERYBODY here BUYS it like it was a divine revelation or something, forgetting about what both COMMON SENSE & EXPERIENCE tells ya to believe. Most people here hasn't got either the brains or the balls to start disagreeing with the top tiers/the majority here cause there is always a lot of guys (like yourself BTW) ready to start ganging up on the one who DARES to do such a thing. It's JUST THE SAME THING that makes me sick about Nazis, Christian fundamentalists and the likes of 'em: they're just a bunch of close-minded self-righteous FUCKWITS who happen to think they know it all and that everyone else is wrong *BEFOREHAND* THIS IS PURE BULLSHIT!! GO BACK AND READ WHAT I FUCKING POSTED IN THE OTHER FORUMS ABOUT MY OPINIONS! NOW WHAT!!! Let me shove this crap right through your thick skull so you can finally fucking get it.....MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, NO ONE ELSE'S. GET IT!! DO YOU FINALLY FUCKING GET IT!!!!! I had my opinions LONG BEFORE I even started posting at this site. So shut the fuck up. You do not know what I am thinking about. Not once have I ganged up on someone for disagreeing with SETH'S opinions, only my own. I am starting to fucking HATE Seth because everyone thinks that he's the ringleader around here, and the fact that my thoughts happen to cross with his suddenly makes me a mindless automaton who can't think for himself, which is a huge load of garbage. If it disgusts you to see people agree with each other, then get lost. You don't bring anything helpful or positive to this site AT ALL. All you do is go out of your way to make trouble and hurt people's feelings. Go back to orochinagi.com where you at least have some semblance of kindness. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 10:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself Fight back, my ass. You start half of the crap, and you know it. You started it with me and you know that too. Don't give me that shit about how I flamed you first. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 10:14 AM: "It's JUST THE SAME THING that makes me sick about Nazis, Christian fundamentalists and the likes of 'em: they're just a bunch of close-minded self-righteous FUCKWITS who happen to think they know it all and that everyone else is wrong *BEFOREHAND*" Ok wait...Your telling me your not even slightly angry at Endless for what he said and you say this line? Endless is acting the same why as the "groups" you just described... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Thnx for ignoring what i said. Its the same reason Endless has stopped posting at the thread, becuase he knows what he said was stupid and the easiest way for him make himself look good is too let everybody else do his arguing for him(does this sound like someone who is sure enough about his own words when he cant even fight for himself?). Look, Endless has stopped posting just cause he's already realized that trying to reason with ya is just as pointless as trying to reason with chi herself. So he got bored of it just like I got bored of Darwin's stuff at the Yojimbo thread and told 'im that he had won quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Setsuna X, and Geese Howard both mentioned not agreeing with him, this time and the time before. Endless's "fact" keeps popping up in arguments, how many times are people going to have to kindly tell him were hes wrong before he stops? Theres been 3 major threads about his ideas already and his masterfull "line" has popped multiple times in arguments so he can prove his "point". Hes trying hard to get people to believe what he saying, which is you know is wrong. Let me ask you something. Ignoring whether you like me or not, ignoring that you even know Endless, do agree with him saying the remark at all??? Is it even needed??? He's just saying what his personal experience tells him to believe. What the fuck do you want him to do, to act like a hypocrite instead?? And NO, I don't personally believe that it's impossible for whites to beat Asians in fighting games, I've done it myself several times before. But SO WHAT? I don't think that acting like a hypocrite just to please the majority is of any use anyways. I praise Endless cause he has the balls to say what he really thinks even though if I disagree with him. So what's the problem?? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Now you mentioned him saying it multiple times on another forum(other than the multiple times ive seen him say it already). The first time he said it i was very calm and quiet about my response and i kindly noted for him to atleast avoid saying it, he did again later. I asked him not to say it again, he said it anyways. How long did i have to be nice to him before i would stop bieng a total ass about a touchy subject as it is? Please answer me atleast this.... I don't really get why do you care that much in the 1st place...Like I said, you're the ONLY one to get offended by this Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: Let me shove this crap right through your thick skull so you can finally fucking get it.....MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, NO ONE ELSE'S. GET IT!! DO YOU FINALLY FUCKING GET IT!!!!! I had my opinions LONG BEFORE I even started posting at this site. So shut the fuck up. You do not know what I am thinking about. Not once have I ganged up on someone for disagreeing with SETH'S opinions, only my own. Ok if you say so (*Sigh*) quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: I am starting to fucking HATE Seth because everyone thinks that he's the ringleader around here, Read my lips now: he IS the ringleader around here and this is a FACT quote: Originally posted by Beast of Fire: If it disgusts you to see people agree with each other, then get lost. You don't bring anything helpful or positive to this site AT ALL. All you do is go out of your way to make trouble and hurt people's feelings. Go back to orochinagi.com where you at least have some semblance of kindness. Yeah of course I'm not that harsh at ON.com. Wanna know why? Cause people there can think for themselves PRETTY MUCH UNLIKE THE MAJORITY HERE. Hah I used to think people who liked Crapcom fighters were not exactly the brightest bulbs around...but since I started visiting SRK.com I'm *sure* of it without the shadow of a doubt... Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Ok wait...Your telling me your not even slightly angry at Endless for what he said and you say this line? Endless is acting the same why as the "groups" you just described... NO I'm not even slightly angry at Endless at all. He can believe whatever he wants based on his own personal experience. And YEAH, in case you're wondering, I'd just love to have the chance to play him to (maybe) demonstrate 'im that we whites can be as much into KOF as Asians are. I don't feel so insecure about it, y'know? Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 11:34 AM: Maybe your right, im starting to think im overeacting too, but it still bothers me admmitedly. He seems to bring it up as much as possible...You even mentioned how you hated Nazi's and such above yet your not tackling Endless, i dont know why. Its bugging me, but ill try to be quiet about it from now on as long as it deosnt go too far, but i will be watching. I also dont want him to think im talking behind his back ether, feel free to lead him here as well if you want... quote: Originally posted by ImMature: NO I'm not even slightly angry at Endless at all. He can believe whatever he wants based on his own personal experience. And YEAH, in case you're wondering, I'd just love to have the chance to play him to (maybe) demonstrate 'im that we whites can be as much into KOF as Asians are. I don't feel so insecure about it, y'know? [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-04-2001).] Posted by TS on 02:05:2001 01:32 PM: s-kill: at night, the sky is usally darker than it is at day time. forum_member: yup, seems like. ImMature: man do I hate you and your cult. damn crapcom zombies. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 04:48 PM: Sorry pals, I've been out during weekend because of personal problems. I'll answer Breast of Fire question, 'cause Kamui is using Seth's hidden technique: If your argument is not strong enough against your opponent's one, just put him on the scrub side and discredit his words (without giving a single fact nor making sense at all). "if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much trouble over it??" Well, you see, I'm gonna make a crystal clear comparison between cheapness and drugs. I know it's a bit too much, but it's the best comparison I could make to clearly show my point. Here it goes: Firstly, I should point that cheap is big reward for a low effort (leave outside supers). There are many reasons why people use drugs, one of them is to avoid problems (the one I'll center my case). So they have problems they cannot overcome or they just don't have the balls or initiative to overcome so they try the easy way of avoiding it that is using drugs. Of course, the problem is still there, and they even added a new problem to their lifes, but they feel successful. This new problem is that they became dependant of the drug they're using 'cause it's the only way to avoid problems. Now onto the cheap stuff. Some people have the problem that they don't have enough skill or they're just lazy to train a character and lose every day. They need to win so they look for the easiest way to win embodied in what most people call cheap techniques. Of course, the problem is still there, they don't even use the character at his 100%, they just beat people using glitches, overprioritized moves and any other thing that may unbalance the game at the level they play. They surely feel successful as from sore losers, they became winners (at least before non experienced people). The new problem they have is that they became dependant of those moves, and their gamming ability didn't improve. Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning and losing, so he will become frustrated). Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they still consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need cheapness but still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they will become dependant just as the guy that has no ability. The big difference between drugs and cheapness is that experienced players must train cheap techniques in order to find ways around it. They may even use them without becoming dependant, but that's not sure. Comparison over. Now is it a big deal? Nope. In my case, I've just seen how you guys had a different opinion from mine and wanted to see what did you base it on and argue about it. Why to make that much trouble about it? I wanted to see if you were able to see beyond Seth's comments. Besides I don't think everything Seth says is so absolute, his article about "balance" is utter crap, you know what I think about cheapness so I don't agree with him and his final article about tourneys and matches, well, he just sounds like a priest scolding the followers for their lack of faith in their latest sayings. Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 07:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Sorry pals, I've been out during weekend because of personal problems. I'll answer Breast of Fire question, 'cause Kamui is using Seth's hidden technique: If your argument is not strong enough against your opponent's one, just put him on the scrub side and discredit his words (without giving a single fact nor making sense at all). "if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much trouble over it??" Well, you see, I'm gonna make a crystal clear comparison between cheapness and drugs. I know it's a bit too much, but it's the best comparison I could make to clearly show my point. Here it goes: Firstly, I should point that cheap is big reward for a low effort (leave outside supers). There are many reasons why people use drugs, one of them is to avoid problems (the one I'll center my case). So they have problems they cannot overcome or they just don't have the balls or initiative to overcome so they try the easy way of avoiding it that is using drugs. Of course, the problem is still there, and they even added a new problem to their lifes, but they feel successful. This new problem is that they became dependant of the drug they're using 'cause it's the only way to avoid problems. Now onto the cheap stuff. Some people have the problem that they don't have enough skill or they're just lazy to train a character and lose every day. They need to win so they look for the easiest way to win embodied in what most people call cheap techniques. Of course, the problem is still there, they don't even use the character at his 100%, they just beat people using glitches, overprioritized moves and any other thing that may unbalance the game at the level they play. They surely feel successful as from sore losers, they became winners (at least before non experienced people). The new problem they have is that they became dependant of those moves, and their gamming ability didn't improve. Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning and losing, so he will become frustrated). Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they still consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need cheapness but still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they will become dependant just as the guy that has no ability. The big difference between drugs and cheapness is that experienced players must train cheap techniques in order to find ways around it. They may even use them without becoming dependant, but that's not sure. Comparison over. Now is it a big deal? Nope. In my case, I've just seen how you guys had a different opinion from mine and wanted to see what did you base it on and argue about it. Why to make that much trouble about it? I wanted to see if you were able to see beyond Seth's comments. Besides I don't think everything Seth says is so absolute, his article about "balance" is utter crap, you know what I think about cheapness so I don't agree with him and his final article about tourneys and matches, well, he just sounds like a priest scolding the followers for their lack of faith in their latest sayings. OK, how is it being helpful to make a comparison between drugs and cheapness? It's not even really that relevant. I wasn't asking you what you thought was cheap, because I already know your opinion on the subject. But thanks for making an attempt at answering my question without going crazy and flaming everyone (unlike ImMature). And again you bring Seth up. Please stop that, Seth has nothing to do with my questions and thoughts. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 07:25 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Read my lips now: he IS the ringleader around here and this is a FACT He's not my leader, and I know several others here who don't care about him either. While your statement isn't completely unfounded, I really don't see a whole lot of Seth worship, unless you go to Dom101. The majority of the people here don't seem to care about him. It's just the people that do care happen to be the loudest ones. quote: Yeah of course I'm not that harsh at ON.com. Wanna know why? Cause people there can think for themselves PRETTY MUCH UNLIKE THE MAJORITY HERE. Hah I used to think people who liked Crapcom fighters were not exactly the brightest bulbs around...but since I started visiting SRK.com I'm *sure* of it without the shadow of a doubt... OK, and your definition of "majority" is five scrubs out of 20 in a topic. Most people here have their own opinions, OK? I would know, considering that I post here WAY more often than you do, and believe me, Seth Worshippers are the minority here. The only differences I see between here and ON.com is that people generally don't flame a lot. But then again, those boards are strangely inactive most of the time. http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 07:39 PM: Hey, man take it easy. I was trying to make an easy comparison to show my view on cheapness. Most people here think it's an excuse for losing when I never use excuses. My view is that it's something that ultimately detriments your gamming. I compared cheap techniques with something was obviously wrong. I know that cheapness is not so relevant, I mentioned it was too much for a comparison but it was the one that seemed easier to see. The "I wanted to see if you were able to see beyond Seth's comments" line wasn't directed to you in particular but to most of the people here. The final paragraph was completely directed to TS but I forgot to mention it. Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS: s-kill: at night, the sky is usally darker than it is at day time. forum_member: yup, seems like. ImMature: man do I hate you and your cult. damn crapcom zombies. Ok that's your version and this is mine: --- s-kill: "Hm today me thinks the Earth is banana-shaped. Unlike most scrubs happen to think BTW" Seth Followers: "YEAH! YEAH! You're a genius Seth! Tell us more Seth!" Random poster: "Uh I guess you're wrong cause..." s-kill: "Hey how do you DARE? You're not even from USA. Speak Engrish, fool [etc]" Seth followers: "YEAH! Scrub. If you disagree with Seth you're a scrub. So shaddup scrub" ImMature: "This is a cult of Crapcom zombies INDEED" Seth followers: "This is not a cult! We think for ourselves! YEAH! YEAH! We're not mindless automatons! NO! NO! It's only that *coincidentally* we happen to agree with Seth..." ImMature: "%100 of the times?!?" --- Source: Domination101 Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 08:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok that's your version and this is mine: --- s-kill: "Hm today me thinks the Earth is banana-shaped. Unlike most scrubs happen to think BTW" Seth Followers: "YEAH! YEAH! You're a genius Seth! Tell us more Seth!" Random poster: "Uh I guess you're wrong cause..." s-kill: "Hey how do you DARE? You're not even from USA. Speak Engrish, fool [etc]" Seth followers: "YEAH! Scrub. If you disagree with Seth you're a scrub. So shaddup scrub" ImMature: "This is a cult of Crapcom zombies INDEED" Seth followers: "This is not a cult! We think for ourselves! YEAH! YEAH! We're not mindless automatons! NO! NO! It's only that *coincidentally* we happen to agree with Seth..." ImMature: "%100 of the times?!?" --- Source: Domination101 Lol, that was funny!!! And unfortunately true. Instead of argueing with people, Seth & friends full color, say that people who think otherwise are wrong and thus are scrubs. They seem to think that discrediting the ones that think differently they make a point, which is not true. Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: You even mentioned how you hated Nazi's and such above yet your not tackling Endless, i dont know why. Endless is no Nazi, biggot or whatsoever. I've talked to him more than you have so trust me on this one. He's a tolerant person, so stop assuming stuff. You're the one being intolerant here IMHO Posted by SithKilla on 02:05:2001 08:52 PM: They need to make a "cheapness" chat room for this because all i see is flames. At least nobody is talking about peoples moms anymore or how they are closer to god hehe that was a good one. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:54 PM: To Ryoga: "I've been out during weekend because of personal problems." Sorry to hear that man To Beast of Fire: "He's not my leader, and I know several others here who don't care about him either." And OF COURSE if he was you'd openly admit it eh? "I really don't see a whole lot of Seth worship, unless you go to Dom101." Logical. That's where Seth posts "The majority of the people here don't seem to care about him. It's just the people that do care happen to be the loudest ones." (don't...say...it...just...don't...say...it...ImMature...try...to...be...kind...this...time...) Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Lol, that was funny!!! And unfortunately true. Instead of argueing with people, Seth & friends full color, say that people who think otherwise are wrong and thus are scrubs. They seem to think that discrediting the ones that think differently they make a point, which is not true. Maybe it's cause they have no alternate point Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 09:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: They need to make a "cheapness" chat room for this because all i see is flames. At least nobody is talking about peoples moms anymore or how they are closer to god hehe that was a good one. Yeah, yeah, we're the bad guys here. Everybody knows that, we're evil & mean while the rest of the SRK.com posters have been verrry tolerant & kind to us indeed. Go figure... BTW SithKilla, what is your alias based on? Just curious quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Erm would you take some advice from one of the SNK villains here? You need to put that gif image of yours on the net before linking to it. If you leave it on your harddisk then nobody else will be able to see it, y'know? Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 09:28 PM: Hey ImMature, everything is OK now. Heh, of course they don't, see Kamui, when he run out of ideas he came out with that "I know your mindset" crap followed by "and I know you're scrubs". BTW, we're bound to be the bad guys here, as Seth and Cletus gave a couple of shots towards me (to say the least) so I'm an enemy of the cult. Hmmm, have you read that post of Rugal at KoF4Ever? Hmmm, I also hve a guess about who chi might be, but only the chi that visited MMCaffe and Orochinagi, I don't know about the original one (if there is one, of course). SithKilla: Heh, was it on this thread where I said that of being closer to god? Heh, it was really funny to see the reactions I got about an obvious joke. Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 12:38 AM: You know your putting me down for apparently having no ideas when you yourself havent come up with anything new in the argument department ether. instead the only thing youve manage to do was insist on telling us the we are part of some Seth-cult(which btw i dont belong too, but since you know so much about it im wondering if you do :P). And as far as my mindset argument, again, your ingoring what i orginally said and only bringing the gritty details to make me look bad. However to make it clear for you, and so you dont twist my words against me this time, let me explain further... Its common sense that a persons experiences define his attitude, we all know that. Now its common knowledge that when a person is encountered with a problem some will aproach it differently than others. If someones thoughts on one subject are the same as another persons its safe to assume that the corresponding person experienced the same problem and approached it in the same way, thus resulting in both having the same attitude and or feelings for whatever subject. Now when applied to my story about the scrub complaining about so and so bieng cheap at the recent tourney i was at, if your argument is exactly like his, with the same defense, same terminology, same prefrences, dont you think its safe to say that you had the same experience to "cheapness" as he did and reacted to it in the same way? This would explain your attitude and feelings toward the subject and it would show that maybe your bieng as irrational as he is. Now that right there is a good argument and what ive been saying all along, no mind reading here, just observation. Now try not to bring up Seth, and or mind reading in your reply... quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Hey ImMature, everything is OK now. Heh, of course they don't, see Kamui, when he run out of ideas he came out with that "I know your mindset" crap followed by "and I know you're scrubs". BTW, we're bound to be the bad guys here, as Seth and Cletus gave a couple of shots towards me (to say the least) so I'm an enemy of the cult. Hmmm, have you read that post of Rugal at KoF4Ever? Hmmm, I also hve a guess about who chi might be, but only the chi that visited MMCaffe and Orochinagi, I don't know about the original one (if there is one, of course). SithKilla: Heh, was it on this thread where I said that of being closer to god? Heh, it was really funny to see the reactions I got about an obvious joke. Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:06:2001 04:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: And OF COURSE if he was you'd openly admit it eh? As a matter of fact, I would. People who mindlessly follow Seth have no shame about it, b/c Seth is God to them. I'm trying to show that I'm NOT a mindless automaton. I think for myself, and my ideas are my own. quote: (don't...say...it...just...don't...say...it...ImMature...try...to...be...kind...this...time...) Yeah, yeah, I know that I'm loud too. That's something I really can't help that much. I was raised in a loud house, so I'm used to being loud so I can be sure that I was heard. My dad's the same way (of course, he's also half-deaf, so that has something to do with it). And there are people on this board that can be much louder than me. I only get loud when I get pissed (and being called a brainwashed Seth Follower REALLY pisses me off). http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif "Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!" Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 02:06:2001 07:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: [B] Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning and losing, so he will become frustrated). Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they still consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need cheapness but still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they will become dependant just as the guy that has no ability. Wow, i'm impressed, this thread (flame war ) is still going on. I thought you people would have gotten tired of arguing already First, i'd just like to say that this has been one of the most entertaining threads I have seen in a long time. You guys crack me up Let's see, so you are co-dependant if you play (what alot of people say is) *ahem* cheap. So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that? Nope If I do a combo which gives me a BIG reward, and cost's little effort, am I dependant on that? Nope. To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play. I'm not a god at fighting games, but I am good. I'm no scrub. But if somebody gets to close to me, and I don't have an opening for a combo/super, I throw them. If I have a damaging three hit combo, I use it. If I know the person can't get out of the corner with the character i'm using, I keep them there. http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif Stung by flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's worst nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door tour of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average Americans. Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 07:29 PM: Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything. When something stops working a human will stop doing it. You do what works in the current situation. quote: Originally posted by Drunkengameplayer: Wow, i'm impressed, this thread (flame war ) is still going on. I thought you people would have gotten tired of arguing already First, i'd just like to say that this has been one of the most entertaining threads I have seen in a long time. You guys crack me up Let's see, so you are co-dependant if you play (what alot of people say is) *ahem* cheap. So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that? Nope If I do a combo which gives me a BIG reward, and cost's little effort, am I dependant on that? Nope. To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play. I'm not a god at fighting games, but I am good. I'm no scrub. But if somebody gets to close to me, and I don't have an opening for a combo/super, I throw them. If I have a damaging three hit combo, I use it. If I know the person can't get out of the corner with the character i'm using, I keep them there. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif"> Stung by flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's worst nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door tour of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average Americans. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:06:2001 09:42 PM: Kamui, I'm not putting you down, you don't need my help for that. You have no point in this "cheapness" argument, not even something to start with, but I'll show you where you're wrong. Point 1: Your mindset crap is based on blah, blah. See, you came up with a story of two guys that said someone was cheap. Even in the case that all you have said is true, there are several points you have to take into consideration when trying to guess another one gamming level. One is the games he plays, a KoF player will not approach CvsS in the same way that a SF one will. The other one is the environment, it's different for different cultures as is completely stupid to think that the values for an American are the same as the ones for a European, Latin American or Asian. So, while one may do some things for honor, other may do the same thing for self improvement, and even another guy may do it for hate (I'm talking about being against "cheapness"). So you're trying to compare people from different backgrounds and from different schools (someone who plays KoF have a different way of playing than someone who plays SF). You certainly don't know for sure how we play and comparing with a couple of local guys is just out of place. You don't know why those guys started thinking that way and you don't know how we did either. So sorry, you made no point here. If you think otherwise then I must say you need to get out more (I'm talking about going far outside the US). Point 2: You see, Kamui, during a discussion, there is a point that's being discussed and a group of people that discuss. Pretty simple, isn't it? Now, to win a discussion, you must state your view on the subject and post proof to suport your point and disprove the point made by the others. You don't try to discredit others by calling them names. Do you see that? You'll never make a point calling us scrubs. If you think otherwise then I'm sorry for you. Point 3: You are a Seth follower, no doubt about that. You act like one. You were the guy that pointed me to a thread made by Seth and you talked like there was a big revelation on it. Besides you're using Seth's technique of "anyone who thinks otherwise is a scrub" which is pathetic, but to each their own, right? Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a couple of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long ago as I haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when you were the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck about your crying). Point 5: I've made a very simple explanation about my points as a reply to Beast of Fire, you should read it so you learn what a discussion is about. Drunkengameplayer: "So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that? Nope" Do you know what is to become dependant of anything? It's when you do it all the time. "To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play." See, ever wondered why the japs kicked your asses so bad? It's the way you play. The kid again: "Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything." Yeap, it is. And that happens because you can't improve your gamming effortlessly. "When something stops working a human will stop doing it." Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that what you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk. "You do what works in the current situation." And never try anything new. Heh, you really have a great gamming, don't you? Your mindset is sooo advanced. Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 10:06 PM: As far as my story about the 2 "scrubs" are conscerned, thats no bullshit story, there are people who can back me up on this. Goto the "CvS Hiuston Tourney" thread on the front page(scroll down, look to the right" if you want more info about the tourney i am talking about. Im sure people there saw the 2 fools i am talking about complaining about Mark R's throwing bananza. Please, research it if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool. "anyone who thinks otherwise is a scrub" Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a scrub though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did i say that line and you know it. "Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a couple of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long ago as I haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when you were the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck about your crying)." WHAAAT?!?!?! LOL...I remember that conversation, and your soooo wrong. I never said i know Valle, i said i asked him a question, i asked him if he played KOF and he said "yes, barely", thats as far as that conversation went. I then thought that maybe he was getting into the game(i mentioned so as well, if this helps you remember the conversation) becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into the game maybe happy fanboys would follow behind and thus improve the situation for that game over here in the states, so i mentioned it on ON.com, which is what the conversation was about. WTF, I never said i played him ether, I live in Texas for crying out loud, now YOUR the on thats comming up with bullshit lies about me. I did mention that SOMEONE else on Fighters.net said they had a friend that payed him and beat him, which i thought that guy was lying anyways but in anycase(BTW, this is the same guy that told me John Choi was #1 KOF player over here, yeah right). Your getting things mixed up pal. Dont tell me what i said. "Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that what you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk." WHAAAT?!?! In what way is a play style naturally addictive? This is 2 completely different ideas. A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically, not like a play style where if it stops working your natural reaction is to addapt and move on. A play style also deosnt have a psychological+chemical grip on your mind. People cant stop using an addictive drug, but when it comes to play styles when something stops working they adapt and move on. Why your comparing drugs with gameplay is beyond me as there 2 COMPLETELY different things. "Heh, you really have a great gamming, dont you? Your mindset is sooo advanced" What are you saying? Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you. From what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset. This comming from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs... quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Kamui, I'm not putting you down, you don't need my help for that. You have no point in this "cheapness" argument, not even something to start with, but I'll show you where you're wrong. Point 1: Your mindset crap is based on blah, blah. See, you came up with a story of two guys that said someone was cheap. Even in the case that all you have said is true, there are several points you have to take into consideration when trying to guess another one gamming level. One is the games he plays, a KoF player will not approach CvsS in the same way that a SF one will. The other one is the environment, it's different for different cultures as is completely stupid to think that the values for an American are the same as the ones for a European, Latin American or Asian. So, while one may do some things for honor, other may do the same thing for self improvement, and even another guy may do it for hate (I'm talking about being against "cheapness"). So you're trying to compare people from different backgrounds and from different schools (someone who plays KoF have a different way of playing than someone who plays SF). You certainly don't know for sure how we play and comparing with a couple of local guys is just out of place. You don't know why those guys started thinking that way and you don't know how we did either. So sorry, you made no point here. If you think otherwise then I must say you need to get out more (I'm talking about going far outside the US). Point 2: You see, Kamui, during a discussion, there is a point that's being discussed and a group of people that discuss. Pretty simple, isn't it? Now, to win a discussion, you must state your view on the subject and post proof to suport your point and disprove the point made by the others. You don't try to discredit others by calling them names. Do you see that? You'll never make a point calling us scrubs. If you think otherwise then I'm sorry for you. Point 3: You are a Seth follower, no doubt about that. You act like one. You were the guy that pointed me to a thread made by Seth and you talked like there was a big revelation on it. Besides you're using Seth's technique of "anyone who thinks otherwise is a scrub" which is pathetic, but to each their own, right? Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a couple of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long ago as I haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when you were the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck about your crying). Point 5: I've made a very simple explanation about my points as a reply to Beast of Fire, you should read it so you learn what a discussion is about. Drunkengameplayer: "So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that? Nope" Do you know what is to become dependant of anything? It's when you do it all the time. "To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play." See, ever wondered why the japs kicked your asses so bad? It's the way you play. The kid again: "Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything." Yeap, it is. And that happens because you can't improve your gamming effortlessly. "When something stops working a human will stop doing it." Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that what you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk. "You do what works in the current situation." And never try anything new. Heh, you really have a great gamming, don't you? Your mindset is sooo advanced. [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-06-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:06:2001 11:38 PM: Ah, you're helpless. See, I can scroll up or load the prior page so you don't need to quote my entire post, it makes loading crappier. "Please, research it if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool." You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote. "Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a scrub though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did i say that line and you know it." I don't need to call you an idiot and yet I can make it clear through a post. You idirectly called me a scrub (now you're doing directly) and you made a pointless story to mark me as one. Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub, then what's the point of your story? "WHAAAT?!?!?!..." Sorry, but I recall it very well. "becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into the game maybe happy fanboys would follow behind and thus improve the situation for that game over here in the states, so i mentioned it on ON.com" Why would anyone at ON care about it? They were already in the game. And about the insulting thing? No comments. But I'd like to be pointed to the "Three Morons" thread, just to have a couple of laughs. "...A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically..." Of course it is. But when it comes to playing US players in this forum tend to stop training and just get satisfied by a small knowledge 'cause it's working (and btw, it's working on people with the same mentality and ability). It's all about lazyness, and that's why you prefer not to go to the next level of playing. Besides, people don't adapt and move on. Proof of that is the Valle vs Chen match. I've been wondering why the hell did Chen choose Ex Yuri two more times when she was useless in the first match. Then I remembered the fireball trap everyone is talking about. Chen used Yuri in an attempt to get Valle into that trap and waste one of his characters with it. He didn't adapt to the situation (which was that Valle had a good strategy against him) and kept doing the same until he lost all the times. Chen got too used to that trap, and when it didn't work, he still tried it again. "Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you." Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique? "From what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset." Yup, but the real point was on the part you skipped. "This comming from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs..." You see, when you have to explain something to people that don't have enough IQ as to understand it, you have to be didactic. If I were near your house, I would have explained it with pupets. Posted by SithKilla on 02:06:2001 11:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Erm would you take some advice from one of the SNK villains here? You need to put that gif image of yours on the net before linking to it. If you leave it on your harddisk then nobody else will be able to see it, y'know? I am not taking sides. Both fans have been equaly ignorant. I never said you were being evil & mean unless your saying you have been. Thanks for the advice. I will fix the problem. To be a "Sith" means you are part of a group that belives in the power of the dark side. They are also called Dark Jedi. An example of a Sith Lord would be Darth Vader. They are Jedi masters of the force and thier power comes from anger and hatred. Therefore I am the "killer" of all who support evilness and stupidity where i find it. Yes i am a Starwars Junkie. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 02-06-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:07:2001 12:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by SithKilla: Yes i am a Starwars Junkie. Heh, you're not the only one. I though you were using that nick as a mock to "no s-kill". Posted by Kamui on 02:07:2001 05:00 AM: "You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote." Ok then why did they say what they did? Why were they talking mess when they werent any good themselves? "Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub, then what's the point of your story?" The story was intended to show where the common origin of "cheap haters" ideas come from. Now you say that this could very well be wrong when it comes to you yourself, and that quite possibly could be true, but, ive been going to KOFonline lately and Ive been going to KOF4ever for a long while now and from what im deffinatly seeing(especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those boards? They make me look smart.)the people there are DEFFINATLY under the same influence as the fools at the tourney i played. To the extent that about 5 or 6 of them mentioned thinking Benimaru's standing B was cheap! Thats just absurd, and when it comes to them and there comments i can deffinatly tell that %90 of them are just players that are eliminating anything they cant beat by calling it cheap. Apparently these guys are based in Singapore, well known for its KOF players, yet from the tourney videos i saw at that site and the way the players acted on the forums, i can tell that they have been running under the famous mentality you refer to for yourself. BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was curious to know what you thought of them. Speaking of which, I much prefer the tourney videos at White-Tower, do you agree? I thought the winner of that tourney was really good, and used real strategies when playing, instead of the mass jumping fest that i saw on the Singapore vids. The singapore vids were good, and im sure those guys could certainly own my ass, but observe the way they played when compared to the Kuwaties. Now ive already seen what there mentality is be seeing the what there ideals and attitudes are on the forums at KOFonline, there ideal btw seems to be the same as yours. Now as you can see from there videos, they have a massive amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there combo game is fantastic, but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy at all when playing, other than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing every player do with every character. They sure look cool, there jumping a lot landing combos flawlessly and such, but there is no brain behind that type of play, or very little strategy to be seen. On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won the tourney obviously had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun and his turtle K'. To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them complaining about what they think is cheap on ON.com, infact i havent seen it yet(The guy who won that tourney goes by the nick "Kofmaster" if you care at all). From this simple observation you can tell what this mentality of yours is doing to players. This deosnt make a player a crappy one, but it limits him by SO MUCH, that the result is these massive mindless jump fests ive been seeing. NONE of the players played any differently, they all played the exact same way. Look at how your limiting yourself as a player. You cant turtle, thats cheap, so if your defensive for too long you have to start attacking sooner or later, even if its not in your best interest. You cant do any %100 striker combos, even though it would give you the game. Hell, by Singapores standards your not even aloud to use Joe striker, even though he cant touch you with Seth behind you(Btw, i can land a %100 with any character and %80 of the strikers on the board, its just easier with Joe). Oh and Jhun is cheap too apparently, he was banned at one the tournies listed on Kofonline's forums(along with a large list of strikers, including Seth). What else has to be taken away from a players reach? This list is getting bigger day by day of what you can and cant do... "Sorry, but I recall it very well." Apparently, especially since i typed it and i know what i said. If i did say that then why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going? Why bring it to my attention now? I never said that, and im gonna assume your ether lying to try to make me look bad or you mesenterpreted what i said with the to other to fools i was talking about from Fighters.net. Im going to assume you mesenterpreted what i said. I never said that :/ "Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique?" Technique? I really wasnt sure what you were saying, ive never heard of a word calling "gamming"(i assumed gaming), and your missing a few words to tag the sentence together. Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was confused. Finally, about the "Three morons" comment, i waqs mad, i apologise, it wasnt even about this thread at the time. But i did find it, "strange" that your spending this much time on this board just to flame for no reason... quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: Ah, you're helpless. See, I can scroll up or load the prior page so you don't need to quote my entire post, it makes loading crappier. "Please, research it if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool." You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote. "Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a scrub though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did i say that line and you know it." I don't need to call you an idiot and yet I can make it clear through a post. You idirectly called me a scrub (now you're doing directly) and you made a pointless story to mark me as one. Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub, then what's the point of your story? "WHAAAT?!?!?!..." Sorry, but I recall it very well. "becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into the game maybe happy fanboys would follow behind and thus improve the situation for that game over here in the states, so i mentioned it on ON.com" Why would anyone at ON care about it? They were already in the game. And about the insulting thing? No comments. But I'd like to be pointed to the "Three Morons" thread, just to have a couple of laughs. "...A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically..." Of course it is. But when it comes to playing US players in this forum tend to stop training and just get satisfied by a small knowledge 'cause it's working (and btw, it's working on people with the same mentality and ability). It's all about lazyness, and that's why you prefer not to go to the next level of playing. Besides, people don't adapt and move on. Proof of that is the Valle vs Chen match. I've been wondering why the hell did Chen choose Ex Yuri two more times when she was useless in the first match. Then I remembered the fireball trap everyone is talking about. Chen used Yuri in an attempt to get Valle into that trap and waste one of his characters with it. He didn't adapt to the situation (which was that Valle had a good strategy against him) and kept doing the same until he lost all the times. Chen got too used to that trap, and when it didn't work, he still tried it again. "Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you." Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique? "From what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset." Yup, but the real point was on the part you skipped. "This comming from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs..." You see, when you have to explain something to people that don't have enough IQ as to understand it, you have to be didactic. If I were near your house, I would have explained it with pupets. [This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-06-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:07:2001 04:46 PM: First of all, when you reply, delete the quote (unless you're specifically quoting a bit of the message). "Why were they talking mess when they werent any good themselves?" Dunno, I don't know them. See, when I play my friend we use that everything is valid (except infinites). I sometimes do certain cheap things and get called "cheapo" because of that, but we do it for the fun. So, even though we use that while playing, we know when one of us is being cheap. "especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those boards?" Not really, I went there when that crap of the supposed KoF2000 roms happened, but I didn't read too much there (I have enough boards to fill my time know). "i can deffinatly tell that %90 of them are just players that are eliminating anything they cant beat by calling it cheap." Whoa, one thing is a cheap move and another thing is a forbidden one. I think Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap but I don't mind it being used against me (and I do you use it, what I don't do is abuse of it) but that move is not illegal. On the other hand, easy to do infinites are something you can call illegal. "BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was curious to know what you thought of them" Not yet. "they have a massive amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there combo game is fantastic, but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy at all when playing, other than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing every player do with every character." It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I don't think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to death); besides armor mode was crap back then. "On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won the tourney obviously had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun and his turtle K'" Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get owned by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style. "To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them complaining about what they think is cheap on ON.com" That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the reason of this thread by now. Well, as people at SRK had a completely different view on it based on who knows what (I won't say it, I won't say it, I must resist temptation), I though it would be good to show them they were wrong and got that chance when someone made this thread. "You cant turtle" I don't think anyone would complain about you turtling, in fact they will rush you down for sure. Again, cheap is not equal to illegal. The thing is most people believe turtling is a begginer's technique. "You cant do any %100 striker combos, even though it would give you the game." Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of bugs pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those 100% easy combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so the game dies in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun? "why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going?" Nobody cares about Valle at a KoF forums (and maybe nobody cares about him at other Capcom forums). "Why bring it to my attention now?" Because you mentioned the opposite here. "Im going to assume you mesenterpreted what i said." Maybe I did, dunno where that thread was and dunno if it survived the ups and downs ON server had. "Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was confused." But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you? Errmmm, don't make me start with the grammar thing. Most US people at SRK talk about how sucky other's grammar is when they make the same or worst mistakes in the way (it's funny). "But i did find it, "strange" that your spending this much time on this board just to flame for no reason..." Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here. Posted by Kamui on 02:08:2001 05:32 AM: "It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I don't think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to death); besides armor mode was crap back then." Yeah i noticed, every video ive seen has most of the player playing like this. My point is there isnt any strategy behind it, its just as boring playing against these masterfull jumpers as it is a turtle. The last time i saw a Chang player(it was a KOF 99 tourney now that i think about it), his whole game was jumping C's and his command throw. Still alot of jumping to be found, though i dont think you can jump very fast with Chang, an obvious reason why they wouldnt too much...I still bothers me. I know why there playing the way they do, becuase they are somewhat influenced by the "cheap" factor. I think that every player that strays away from that play style is moving in the right direction. There is hope for KOF players. After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that not everybody whos good is playing the same way. "Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get owned by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style." Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is playing it depends on whos the better. Same problem with MvC2 exists, runaway overbearingly beats every other play style down. Not to say rushdown isnt possible, but its much harder to do. After seeing the tourney vids at white tower theres a good possiblity that KOF is a fairly balanced game when it comes to that situation, I would like to see if the "jumping rushdown" technique would be able to beat a good turtle...Now that would be an interesting game, not both players jumping madly across the screen. "That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the reason of this thread by now." Wrong. Sorry, no offense to those boards but someone brings up a thread complaining about cheap ATLEAST once a month, and it gets major replies. At KOFonline its like everyday :P "Well, as people at SRK had a completely different view on it based on who knows what (I won't say it, I won't say it, I must resist temptation)," You wouldnt be refering to Seth would you? SAY IT YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!! MWAHAHAHA....errr....ahem.... "Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of bugs pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those 100% easy combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so the game dies in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun?" Well i deffinatly dont think it was the smartest decision on SNK's part to include the active striker system, but that shouldnt stop people from using it. Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something abusable. But even then though there are problems with it, i dont think it "breaks" the game. There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of Joe users, you pick Seth. Again, the game still has problems, but its still hilarious fun, especially when your not holding back. "But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you?" Eeeehh....nnnooo...Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument? What i said to you wasnt ment to be a cut down, the line you said was a broken and i was confused at what you exactly ment at first. Really, no harm intended. Ive cooled down now. "Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here" Eehhh...you talking about the SNK lemmings argument? Thats a different subject. I know he didnt start this thread... quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: First of all, when you reply, delete the quote (unless you're specifically quoting a bit of the message). "Why were they talking mess when they werent any good themselves?" Dunno, I don't know them. See, when I play my friend we use that everything is valid (except infinites). I sometimes do certain cheap things and get called "cheapo" because of that, but we do it for the fun. So, even though we use that while playing, we know when one of us is being cheap. "especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those boards?" Not really, I went there when that crap of the supposed KoF2000 roms happened, but I didn't read too much there (I have enough boards to fill my time know). "i can deffinatly tell that %90 of them are just players that are eliminating anything they cant beat by calling it cheap." Whoa, one thing is a cheap move and another thing is a forbidden one. I think Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap but I don't mind it being used against me (and I do you use it, what I don't do is abuse of it) but that move is not illegal. On the other hand, easy to do infinites are something you can call illegal. "BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was curious to know what you thought of them" Not yet. "they have a massive amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there combo game is fantastic, but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy at all when playing, other than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing every player do with every character." It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I don't think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to death); besides armor mode was crap back then. "On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won the tourney obviously had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun and his turtle K'" Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get owned by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style. "To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them complaining about what they think is cheap on ON.com" That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the reason of this thread by now. Well, as people at SRK had a completely different view on it based on who knows what (I won't say it, I won't say it, I must resist temptation), I though it would be good to show them they were wrong and got that chance when someone made this thread. "You cant turtle" I don't think anyone would complain about you turtling, in fact they will rush you down for sure. Again, cheap is not equal to illegal. The thing is most people believe turtling is a begginer's technique. "You cant do any %100 striker combos, even though it would give you the game." Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of bugs pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those 100% easy combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so the game dies in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun? "why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going?" Nobody cares about Valle at a KoF forums (and maybe nobody cares about him at other Capcom forums). "Why bring it to my attention now?" Because you mentioned the opposite here. "Im going to assume you mesenterpreted what i said." Maybe I did, dunno where that thread was and dunno if it survived the ups and downs ON server had. "Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was confused." But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you? Errmmm, don't make me start with the grammar thing. Most US people at SRK talk about how sucky other's grammar is when they make the same or worst mistakes in the way (it's funny). "But i did find it, "strange" that your spending this much time on this board just to flame for no reason..." Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here. Posted by ImMature on 02:08:2001 09:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Yeah i noticed, every video ive seen has most of the player playing like this. My point is there isnt any strategy behind it, its just as boring playing against these masterfull jumpers as it is a turtle. Uhh maybe you're just assuming too much from watching a bunch of videos. Go read Seth's last article on it, will ya? At least is not a total piece of pompous crap as many others this time... quote: Originally posted by Kamui: There is hope for KOF players. Ok if the utmost authority when it comes to KOF says so... quote: Originally posted by Kamui: After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that not everybody whos good is playing the same way. You REALLY needs to read Seth's last article quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is playing it depends on whos the better. Aparently from what I've heard KOF 2K is a sad exception. And I guess you know it already quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Wrong. Sorry, no offense to those boards but someone brings up a thread complaining about cheap ATLEAST once a month, and it gets major replies. At KOFonline its like everyday :P Well not that I visit Vincent's so much but I can tell ya it's not very common at all at Yasakani's, Gunsmith's or MadMan's, now it is? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something abusable. But even then though there are problems with it, i dont think it "breaks" the game. So you're saying yourself that Cheapness does exist?!? quote: Originally posted by Kamui: There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of Joe users, you pick Seth. That's MvC2 mentality! quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Eeeehh....nnnooo...Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument? Nope he was talking about Seth's style of arguing I guess quote: Originally posted by Kamui: Eehhh...you talking about the SNK lemmings argument? Thats a different subject. I know he didnt start this thread... Neither did we start this one. So? Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:08:2001 09:33 PM: "I know why there playing the way they do, becuase they are somewhat influenced by the "cheap" factor" Nah, I don't play that way, and I try not to be cheap. It's just that they have better reflexes than I do (yeap, and I'm no artist nor musician ) so they play in a way that exploits their abilities. It's not that they don't have a strategy at all, but that strategy works well and uses the full extent of the character. I also have a couple of strategies, I start with one of them and depending on my opponent I switch to another one. If you see it, you may say I don't have an strategy when the only thing I did was to change to another one when I though my first approach wasn't going to work. "After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that not everybody whos good is playing the same way" Of course not, but if a good player is turtling, the other good player will rush his ass down. "Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is playing it depends on whos the better." Yeap, it matters, in a game where throwing a fireball is no guarantee of keeping the opponent far, keepaway will always be on disadvantage to runaway. "Same problem with MvC2 exists" The problem there is that there are lots of beams and three screens high super jumps that let people control the situation from a far away. "Wrong..." ImMature answered that. "Well i deffinatly dont think it was the smartest decision on SNK's part to include the active striker system, but that shouldnt stop people from using it." Maybe, but it's far from being complete. The should make the striker whiff after having helped a couple of times in a large combo or something like that to avoid infinites. "Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something abusable." I don't think so. Can't think of a game with those properties. "There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of Joe users, you pick Seth." That "pick X to beat Y" is boring, I like to choose the team I like most or even choose random and know I have a chance (I mostly use random selection for forcing myself to use a character I wouldn't normaly choose). "Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument" Errmmm, nope, can't remember that one. It's not important. In fact ImMature is right about it. "Ive cooled down now." I noticed, that's why I'm not flamming you now. "I know he didnt start this thread..." Neither did I. BTW, I didn't flame people here until they became annoying. By "annoying" I mean that they jumped in and threw a known phrase without even read what was posted. Posted by cocoumi on 02:08:2001 11:53 PM: Cheap Factor... Some one is angry because they get their ass kicked by someone who has been practicing a tactic that may be difficult for you to get around... My stratagy: Learn those same tactics and start to use them for your advantage. For example, I love to play MVC2...I was playing with Chun-Li, Guile and Sentinile for a long while. For that long while I was kicking ass too; I was beating the majority of those top players for a while (and making them feel like shit because I'm a lady ^0^). Suddenly I noticed they were changing up characters and learning how to use them effectivly and learning my tactics. So what have I done? I've been experimenting, watching those same guys that have turned around and started kicking my ass again, and I'm sitting back and watching what they are doing. At the same time I am learning new characters to play with and I am growing even more. My argument about cheapness... there is no such thing. They are tricks and traps and at the same time you have to learn those tricks, learn how to avoid the traps and come up with some traps of your own. Weenies whine about cheapness. -The cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet. [This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-08-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:09:2001 02:51 AM: We have a new idiot to make fun of. Geese, the handicrapcom disease really exists. Posted by ImMature on 02:09:2001 10:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: My argument about cheapness... there is no such thing. They are tricks and traps and at the same time you have to learn those tricks, learn how to avoid the traps and come up with some traps of your own. Weenies whine about cheapness. Fine. Now go read the thread. Cause all that stuff has been already debated in pages 5-8 or so, y'know? Scrubs think that being cheap is the big shit Posted by SithKilla on 02:09:2001 10:29 AM: Comon people what are you talking about? The game is perfectly balanced. Its cheap because cable has a gun. Just use ryu and ken and akuma. They can beat anything with a fireball and dragon punch. Thier top tier really. (ducks the chair) [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:09:2001 04:04 PM: "Its cheap because cable has a gun." That's why my fav Capcom character is Bulleta (BBHood), she has a rocket launcher. Posted by Pokai-Chong on 02:09:2001 08:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "Its cheap because cable has a gun." That's why my fav Capcom character is Bulleta (BBHood), she has a rocket launcher. HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!HAAA!!! YOU ARE A REAL GAME PLAYER! CHEAPNESS IS FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE PRESSURE AND DO NOT LEARN FROM THERE MISTAKE!! Posted by jiMboE!! on 02:09:2001 09:41 PM: YO WHEN YOUR RIGHT YOUR RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG IM THE BOMB!!! Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:44 PM: "Geese, the handicrapcom disease really exists."[/B][/QUOTE] I hope that isn't me you want to start picking on Mister...You've got a big storm ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL^0^ -the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet [This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-09-2001).] Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:49 PM: "Scrubs think that being cheap is the big shit."[/B][/QUOTE] Hey, you need to learn to do that. Maybe you will start winning... Stop acting like a sour puss and grow up. Just face the facts man. The only way you can win is to join the crowd and minipulate what they are doing. "Listen to the woman"- Sidney played by Wesley Snipes from "White Men Can't Jump" -the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet [This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-09-2001).] Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:58 PM: Why do "boys" complain about cheapness when in fact it is the "cheapness" that people use to compete? Are we all "against the rules" because the game is formated in a way in which the fastest fingers, and the greatest traps... "Boys", "boys", "boys"... -the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:10:2001 12:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: I hope that isn't me you want to start picking on Mister...You've got a big storm ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL^0^ I'm not precisely worried about that. And about those two idiots that cannot turn their CapsLock off: You better start shouting 'cause that doesn't make your sayings valid. Posted by cocoumi on 02:10:2001 04:47 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ImMature: [B] Fine. Now go read the thread. Cause all that stuff has been already debated in pages 5-8 or so, y'know? Wait a second... This folder happens to be about this specific issue. Don't tell me to look back at the thread if this is indeed the argument, bud. If the subject we are conversing about now does NOT pertain to "the cheapness" issue, you need to go make a new folder or something. -the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet Posted by SithKilla on 02:10:2001 10:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Pokai-Chong: HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!HAAA!!! YOU ARE A REAL GAME PLAYER! CHEAPNESS IS FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE PRESSURE AND DO NOT LEARN FROM THERE MISTAKE!! I see some of us are not familiar with the concept of sarcasm. It was a joke my friend. If you had read the previous posts you would have known this. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by ImMature on 02:10:2001 10:57 AM: To Pokai-Chong & cocoumi the she-Crapcom zombie: I just don't get why this site doesn't change its name to 'Beavis-n-Butthead.com' instead. %90 of the people here are retard zombies anyways. Ok so according to ya "Cable RULZ. And SF could kick football's ass anyday. Huh huh Huh. Hey Seth can we be in your gang now?? Huh huh huh". Nuff said... Posted by cocoumi on 02:10:2001 10:12 PM: ImMature... That explains a lot about you...Oh, why can't you just do the mature thing and stop insulting our inteligence? Stay on the topic my child... Posted by ImMature on 02:10:2001 10:34 PM: quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: ImMature... That explains a lot about you... Shit why 9 out of 10 Crapcom zombies end up pointing the same thing?? Do all of you think alike or what?? <-- Rethorical question of course: I already know you do quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: Oh, why can't you just do the mature thing and stop insulting our inteligence? Stay on the topic my child... Ok so just read the thread before posting, mom Posted by ImMature on 02:11:2001 10:38 AM: BUMP! Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:11:2001 08:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Ok so just read the thread before posting, mom Muahaha, not only you have a net boss, but now you have a net mom. Lol. Cocoumi: If you want to see what others think about Se...errm your thoughs, read the entire thread. Posted by cocoumi on 02:11:2001 09:10 PM: OKAY FINE!!!!!!!!! The THREAD happens to be about this topic I see... But I can see clearly that you guys jsut want to start beef with me because I'm a girl. That's so easy to see. And what is even more bothersome is the fact that I now what I'm talking about, AND THAT IS EVEN MORE INTIMIDATING to yall! I've had enough of angry young testosterone... Where are the MEN AT??????? -"KIKOSHO," says the cute little lady in the grey dress Posted by ImMature on 02:11:2001 10:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: OKAY FINE!!!!!!!!! The THREAD happens to be about this topic I see... But I can see clearly that you guys jsut want to start beef with me because I'm a girl. That's so easy to see. And what is even more bothersome is the fact that I now what I'm talking about, AND THAT IS EVEN MORE INTIMIDATING to yall! I've had enough of angry young testosterone... Where are the MEN AT??????? Hell yeah you got it %100, we're male chauvinist pigs only picking on ya cause you're a chick that intimidates us and stuff. In fact I personally am more of a sexist bastard than Billy Kane himself so now "Go home and have children, toots" (Billy's winquote in RBFF) instead of being here talking about VGs you chicks will NEVER EVER be good at, not in a millon years. Go make your BF dinner, will ya? Oh and did I mention we're yellow supremacists too? See, ole eeeevil EndLeSS sent us here as a special internet force (codename: The Three Morons) to promote azn superiority but since none of us are actually azn we've chosen to pick on little gals instead. Y'know, it's a pity that we lost one of our Morons due to his adittion to lego porn, but we're still doing our best anyways... (Well since this is SRK.com I'll hafta point it out clearly: the stuff above was SARCASM) [This message has been edited by ImMature (edited 02-11-2001).] Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 02:12:2001 03:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: (Well since this is SRK.com I'll hafta point it out clearly: the stuff above was SARCASM)[This message has been edited by ImMature (edited 02-11-2001).] LOL!!! Nothin' really! Just stalkin' around and reading stuffs. So please don't mind me and continue in your ammusing flame war ppl. Posted by CaliStorm on 02:12:2001 05:18 AM: There is no such thing as cheapness. These are all different patterns, lockdowns, and experiences that just make some players than others. If you think something is cheap, then I think your a scrub and should play games like Mario Bros. or something. But dont come to Shoryuken.com or any arcade and cry about something being cheap. Final! Posted by ej_333 on 02:12:2001 07:53 AM: This thread is STILL going on?! Truly amazing! Posted by ImMature on 02:12:2001 08:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by CaliStorm: There is no such thing as cheapness. These are all different patterns, lockdowns, and experiences that just make some players than others. If you think something is cheap, then I think your a scrub and should play games like Mario Bros. or something. But dont come to Shoryuken.com or any arcade and cry about something being cheap. Final! Sigh yet another Crapcom zombie repeating stuff that has been already debated a loooong time ago. Oh well there is only a way to communicate with the average SRK.com poster, *Beavis & Butthead mode on* Huh huh huh. Yeah yeah yeah. Ssssssscrubs. Scrubs suck. They sssssuck! Heh heh heh. Cable rulz, he takes no skill. Huh huh huh. Skill sucks! If I wanted to spend a lot of time learning something I'd go to school. Skill SUCKS! Heh heh heh. But s-kull RULZ, he can kick your mom's ass at Super Turbo. Huh huh huh. Hey Seth can we be in your gang now? Posted by AKUMA2000 on 02:12:2001 09:44 AM: There is NO such thing as "cheapness", your ONLY objective in a fighting game is to "fight & kill" your opponent no matter HOW it's done. Everybody's gameplay mentality is different on the battlefield, i play using any means necessary to win the fight, because to me it's all about which warrior is left standing. If you're a gamer who thinks the opponent has to fight "honorable" or "fair", you won't win many games because you'll be to fustrated to play rather than adapt to your opponent's playing style and work around it. AKUMA'S LAIR http://members.tripod.com/~Streetfighter_3/akuma-stance-2.gif "It's All About Which Warrior Is Left Standing" Posted by TS on 02:12:2001 10:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Sigh yet another Crapcom zombie repeating stuff that has been already debated a loooong time ago. Oh well there is only a way to communicate with the average SRK.com poster, This is why people don't like you. Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies." You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because they're zombies...it's probably because you're a pair of assholes. Thank you. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:12:2001 04:03 PM: ej_333: Hey man, this thread will go on forever, every time the discussion ends, someone will pop up and state the same thing that was said on page #1 and debated through 15 pages. Besides, we still have to beat Duc's record of 900+ posts in a single thread. Now to the retard department: quote: Originally posted by TS: This is why people don't like you. Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies." You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because they're zombies...it's probably because you're a pair of assholes. Thank you. Nope, people repeating stuff that was debated to death during 15 pages are zombies. And people not liking us? Errrm, I never said I was looking for fame. Besides we're the "Three Morons" not "assholes". BTW, it seems we lost one "Moron" because of personal affairs (including Lego stuff). Posted by Gamer X on 02:12:2001 06:52 PM: Hey O.Ryoga, can I be a Moron too? Its better than being a Crapcom zombie. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:12:2001 07:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gamer X: Hey O.Ryoga, can I be a Moron too? Its better than being a Crapcom zombie. Well, we have an empty seat at the Three Morons team, so you're welcome. BTW, does anybody know if Seth is around? Posted by SithKilla on 02:13:2001 12:34 AM: Your mother O.Ryoga!! Damnit fucking MvC2 is cheap! Throwing is cheap! Fireballs are cheap! Killing your opponent is Cheap! Putting the quarter in the machine is cheap! Puleez I never understood why people care so much about what other people think. Some people just want to post thier views and leave. Repeating happens alot. It comes with having to type messages from places like maryland obliviously to have it flamed in Botswana Africa. By the way i'm not pointing fingers at anybody specificly. Just the ones acting stupid. [This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 02-12-2001).] Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 12:54 AM: What's up, Sith? Didn't get what you said. BTW, I found a place to play for 12.5 cents the go (in fact the promo is 1 buck = 8 coins), so I can be cheaper than you. Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 01:20 AM: To Gamer X: Welcome to our Team man! To Sithkilla: Hmmm do you happen to have any problem? C'mon you can tell us, we're all friends, ain't we? To Ryoga: Well it seems like the Three Morons ride again & stuff. Gee I wonder where D'artagnan (ie Kamui) is. It is me or both this guy and his arch-enemy are way too much into Lego porn? There is a huge flamewar running beetwen the 2 at the LegoPorn4Ever forum. It started when Yojimbo announced that Lego was gonna be adqired by Crapcom. Oh how do I know, you ask?? Errrr I'm into Lego porn too Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 01:40 AM: And now just to honour our long-lost "Leader" I'm gonna reply to this post Yojimbo-style: quote: Originally posted by TS: This is why people don't like you. WTF people aint too much fond of u neither. Been in the general disscusion forum lately?? Besides what do u think this is an amercian high school?? I dun give a rats arse about people likin me or not quote: Originally posted by TS: Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies." Its not just 2 people having the same opinion its a bunch of Crapcom loving idiots from yokel hicksville USA acting like brainwashed. Dont like it? So what u gonna do To come over to my country and beat me up? Wait your turn then hippy quote: Originally posted by TS: You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because they're zombies... U keep defendin people who are talkin crap behind ur back at the other forum?? Oh boy have you no education or brains at all? quote: Originally posted by TS: it's probably because you're a pair of assholes. Hey why to flame us for no good reason at all? We are just minding our own bussiness so dont drag our innocent little SNK lemings selfs to ur level you ignorant Clapcom flamer Posted by Scypher Wing on 02:13:2001 02:02 AM: Was not this thread suppose to be about Cheapness, not bashing? it's really funny how some topics turn out completely different http://www.geocities.com/to2008/SWtag.gif Posted by Aoishi2AL on 02:13:2001 02:56 AM: I'm kinda lost. What the hell is legoporn? http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/8681/pic_end_01t.jpg "You want me don't you..." Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 02:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by Scypher Wing: Was not this thread suppose to be about Cheapness, not bashing? it's really funny how some topics turn out completely different Errmmm, yeap, but you know how this is when you talk with Crapcom zombies, don't you? (Hmmm, I wonder which side of the road are you walking on). To ImMature: Heh, I've also seen that Lego porn thing and it's kinda adictive. I guess I'll have to ask Zyzy about that. BTW, that Yojimbo style reply was hillarious. Which makes me wonder what would happen if a boss style thread appears. Posted by TS on 02:13:2001 04:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature: Its not just 2 people having the same opinion its a bunch of Crapcom loving idiots from yokel hicksville USA acting like brainwashed. You can't really be that ignorant. Here's what happens: Someone posts a topic, people respond with their opinions. A lot of people respond, and so more than likely, a lot of people will have similar opinions. This does NOT mean they are copying each other (I doubt most of the responders have read over a page of this thread). Think think think. Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 07:53 AM: To Aoishi2AL: "I'm kinda lost. What the hell is legoporn?" Alas, Lego porn is the filthiest, most morally degrading kind of perversion known to mankind. Sorry but I can't direct you to the LegoPorn4Ever website until you can prove to me you're over 21. We don't want no kiddies giving away their dads' credit card numbers, y'know? To Ryoga: "BTW, that Yojimbo style reply was hillarious." Thank you. Y'know, that guy cracks me up so now I'm trying to learn his technics so I can make some more people "visit" my country this year "Which makes me wonder what would happen if a boss style thread appears." Maybe Mr Pantsoffki can do something about it one of these days... To TS: "Here's what happens: Someone posts a topic, people respond with their opinions. A lot of people respond, and so more than likely, a lot of people will have similar opinions. This does NOT mean they are copying each other" Oh no, here you're right, they're definitely not copying each other; They're exclusively copying Seth instead. BTW have noticed how many times the *EXACT* phrase 'There is no such thing as cheapness' appears? Hari Krishna, Hari Hari, Hari Krishna, Hari Hari etc... Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 04:00 PM: ImMature: Spain will have a lot of visitors during the summer break (and they will all be from the US). BTW, I came across some material on the net Dr.Pantsoffsky would like (You know, Vanessa does an appearance at Yuri & friends 2000). TS: Do you know how many times I've heard Seth's trademark phrases: "Cheapness doesn't exist, it's just a scrub whinning" Or "If it's in the game, it's not cheap" (This are not the accurate, but are close to the ones they use, the meaning is the same) And even though they have been discussed to death, they keep appearing, which means that followers of the cult haven't learned the dark secrets of "reading a thread before posting". And if you want more proof, check the "Balance in games" thread in this same forum. You'll find the most retarded answers as: "You want balance, I give you Karate Champ" (which was used by Seth in his own thread about the matter) Without thinking what is being discussed nor reading previous posts and, of course, not thinking by themselves. Another phrase I've heard was the: "I give you Blue Ryu, Red Ryu, ... And I call it Ryufest". Or something like that. When Crapcom already did that. Guess that "thinking" is something that the followers of the cult left to scientists. [This message has been edited by O.Ryoga (edited 02-13-2001).] Posted by bis on 02:13:2001 07:44 PM: The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting like kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well ,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even though it is true. This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday and i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my team. Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the cyke ,cable combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal he had no chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at all cause i had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke setting me up it was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good with her. Though it didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So cheapness does exist you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy that lives across the street knows it, and that chick that rings the register at your local cvs knows it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's true!" Posted by Dan Hibiki on 02:13:2001 08:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by bis: The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting like kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well ,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even though it is true. This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday and i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my team. Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the cyke ,cable combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal he had no chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at all cause i had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke setting me up it was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good with her. Though it didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So cheapness does exist you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy that lives across the street knows it, and that chick that rings the register at your local cvs knows it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's true!" Damn ... I couldn't have said it better myself ... but lets try it anyway! The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting like kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well ,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even though it is true. This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday and i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my team. Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the cyke ,cable combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal he had no chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at all cause i had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke setting me up it was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good with her. Though it didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So cheapness does exist you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy that lives across the street knows it, and that chick that rings the register at your local cvs knows it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's true!" Yeah I think I said it better myself ^_^ LOL j/k ... good post ... http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/Dankyokugen.gif Kyokugen Karate? I wrote the book! Saikyo! Justin Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 09:31 PM: Hey bis, I'm glad to see a post that makes sense AT LAST. Yep cheapness does exist and I'm sure that even Seth himself, being the experienced player that he is, knows it already without the shadow of a doubt. Being cheap in order to win is another matter entirely. Even though I endorse (more or less) honorable gameplay I can deal with it, some people play like that and that's ok (unless they keep using cheap+retarded, no-brainer patterns over & over again REGARDLESS of if they're actually working or not; that's something that I can't stand). Besides, knowing how to be cheap & how to counteract cheap tactics is a part of knowing a game after all. So if someone wanna play cheaply is ok to some exent but at least they should know they're being cheap and not try to deny it. My 2 cents Posted by Gamer X on 02:13:2001 11:00 PM: I couldn't agree with bis more. Keep speaking the truth bis. Posted by SithKilla on 02:14:2001 12:09 AM: Immature: Just joking around man. I hear so much silly stuff like what i just posted. I was just pointing out how stupid it was thats all. And what makes it so sad is that sombody actually told me blocking was cheap. Damnit O.Ryoga this is your fault!! You want some? come get some!! I'm taking a plane from north america to whip your ass!! Oh wait we werent' arguing about anything sorry. Just built up rage. I guess i should read all the posts before i make any comments lol. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:14:2001 12:48 AM: SithKilla: Actually, by blocking you're cheaply avoiding getting hit which leaves no other tactic that complaining, pressing your buttons and touching the nearest girl butt. Well, if you come here, I must warn you I'm cheap as hell when fighting. BTW, if you read all the posts, you would know that the current subject is Lego porn and not cheapness. For those that are not too used to BBSs, everything should be taken as a joke in this post (Well except for my fighting style). Posted by TS on 02:14:2001 07:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: TS: Do you know how many times I've heard Seth's trademark phrases: "Cheapness doesn't exist, it's just a scrub whinning" Or "If it's in the game, it's not cheap" (This are not the accurate, but are close to the ones they use, the meaning is the same) You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since forever. quote: And even though they have been discussed to death, they keep appearing, which means that followers of the cult haven't learned the dark secrets of "reading a thread before posting". And if you want more proof, check the "Balance in games" thread in this same forum. You'll find the most retarded answers as: "You want balance, I give you Karate Champ" (which was used by Seth in his own thread about the matter) Without thinking what is being discussed nor reading previous posts and, of course, not thinking by themselves. They agreed with the statement. And an extremely small number of people have used the phrase. If you don't agree, talk about it. Don't just go "you're a crapcom zombie, nyuurrrr...SNK is good...SNK is God...I will only play SNK...but you're a zombie!! Brains....BRAINS!!!" quote: Another phrase I've heard was the: "I give you Blue Ryu, Red Ryu, ... And I call it Ryufest". Or something like that. When Crapcom already did that. You don't play Capcom games, so you really don't know what you're talking about here...feel free to try to explain though, if you like. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:14:2001 10:53 PM: "You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since forever." Even though, that belief only exists in this board. Strange isn't it? "If you don't agree, talk about it." That's what I tried in this thread, but from time to time, one idiot appeares stating the same thing that was beaten to death during many pages in the same thread. Do you see how stupid is that people that jumps into a thread without reading it and states the same things that were already discussed without adding anything new to the thread? Answer that, 'cause it's a big part of being a "zombie". "feel free to try to explain though, if you like." You're right I didn't play Crapcom games for a big while, but don't tell me you don't see certain amount of rehash in the series. I know there is a little thing here, and another thing there to make them look different, but that means nothing to me, a rehash is a rehash. Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 02:14:2001 10:56 PM: *Totall of topic comment* Wow, I thought this thread would have been closed by know. Oh well, who cares....... damn I need to get off my lazy ass and get some chored done today http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif Stung by flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's worst nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door tour of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average Americans. Posted by TS on 02:15:2001 12:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: "You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since forever." Even though, that belief only exists in this board. Strange isn't it? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it doesn't exist at the place(s) you hang. But to say that it only exists here is extremely incorrect. People have had the same attitude about every "cheap" thing in every game, ever. quote: "If you don't agree, talk about it." That's what I tried in this thread, but from time to time, one idiot appeares stating the same thing that was beaten to death during many pages in the same thread. Do you see how stupid is that people that jumps into a thread without reading it and states the same things that were already discussed without adding anything new to the thread? Ignore them. They just wanted to drop in their 2 cents. quote: Answer that, 'cause it's a big part of being a "zombie". It's called responding to the thread. quote: "feel free to try to explain though, if you like." You're right I didn't play Crapcom games for a big while, but don't tell me you don't see certain amount of rehash in the series. I know there is a little thing here, and another thing there to make them look different, but that means nothing to me, a rehash is a rehash. I see a certain rehash in KOF, and Samurai Showdown, and Metal Slug, and Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat. And every series that has sequel. But since you don't play the games, you can't really say how much has really changed...Marvel vs Capcom 1 and MvC2 are HUGELY different games, as are SFA2 and SFA3, and so are SF2 and SF3, for that matter. I could look at someone playing KOF2k, and say "that's KOF '96 with Strikers, and more characters. But, I'm pretty sure I'd be wrong. I couldn't tell you why...but I don't just assume that it's just the same old stuff. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:15:2001 12:55 AM: "Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it doesn't exist at the place(s) you hang. But to say that it only exists here is extremely incorrect. People have had the same attitude about every "cheap" thing in every game, ever." Well, this place is visited by US people and a few guys from outside (well, maybe Canada has a big presence here, and Hawaii if you consider multiple personalities ). On the other hand, most KoF boards have people from US, Latin America, Europe, and some countries like Singapour (I know there's people from NZ as well, but I've only seen one). I'm talking about a wide range of ethnicies (dunno if I written it right) and countries, showing a broader range of opinions. And most of them will tell you the same. I didn't know that was the general belief here when I first came, and it's strange to see that most people agrees with one guy in almost all arguments. "Ignore them. They just wanted to drop in their 2 cents." If someone already did, why not try and give us a better explanation of their reasons to think that way? "It's called responding to the thread." If I come to a thread and agree with a guy then I say "I agree with you", I don't repost the same thing. BTW, if I agree with someone, that means I made some thinking process and that was it's result, why not try to discuss it? Why just repost something that was already said? Why make another thread repeating what was already discussed? That shows real low intelligence. "I see a certain rehash in KOF..." One thing, talk only about fighters, we know that titles like Metal Slug or Raiden won't change too much from one to the other, even though, I like it when a company finds that little twist that makes a game funnier to play the the previous one. Play Metal Slug and Metal Slug 3 and you'll see a big difference. Now, by rehash I don't mean "small likeness", I talk about "almost identical". See Ryu and Ken. Oh yeah, one has blonde hair and fire in his DP while the other has a red bandana. Gameplaywise, they differ in priority, reach and strength of their moves. But they have the same moves, the same animation, I mean same bodies, different head (and maybe a T-Shirt or a glowing Kanji) but they are too similar. On the other hand, SNK change their characters moves every year, so that they don't look nor play the same (play Ryo and Robert in KoF'94 and play them in KoF2000), they don't even have moves that resemble each other (at least, not the entire moveset). Posted by TS on 02:15:2001 01:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga: I didn't know that was the general belief here when I first came, and it's strange to see that most people agrees with one guy in almost all arguments. If there weren't people who considered almost nothing to be cheap, then nobody would complain about cheapness. But there's always some guy willing to play WW Guile, or do whatever to win. "If it's in the game, it's fair." Not everybody agrees with it, but a lot of people do. quote: "It's called responding to the thread." If I come to a thread and agree with a guy then I say "I agree with you", I don't repost the same thing. BTW, if I agree with someone, that means I made some thinking process and that was it's result, why not try to discuss it? Why just repost something that was already said? Why make another thread repeating what was already discussed? That shows real low intelligence. Not everybody wants to wade through 300 or 400 posts. Some people want to have their voices heard, and have that be the end of it. quote: Now, by rehash I don't mean "small likeness", I talk about "almost identical". See Ryu and Ken. Oh yeah, one has blonde hair and fire in his DP while the other has a red bandana. Gameplaywise, they differ in priority, reach and strength of their moves. But they have the same moves, the same animation, I mean same bodies, different head (and maybe a T-Shirt or a glowing Kanji) but they are too similar. On the other hand, SNK change their characters moves every year, so that they don't look nor play the same (play Ryo and Robert in KoF'94 and play them in KoF2000), they don't even have moves that resemble each other (at least, not the entire moveset). Well let's take Ryo and Terry. Ryo will have an orange karate gi as his standard outfit, with a black undershirt. He'll still have that Haohshoukoken dealy, and he'll have a DP type move and/or a crouching Fierce that goes straight up. Air fireball is probable. In 9 out of 10 games Terry will Have a red vest with a white star on the back, and he'll have a red hat, which he will throw off at some point. He will always either have his Rising Tackle or Power Dunk, and will always have his Power Geyser. Burn Knuckle and Crack Shoot are negotiable, but he'll have at least one (more than likely, the Crack Shoot). Just because the movelist doesn't change, doesn't mean the moves and characters stay the same. Ryu is the worst character in SF2:WW, and the best in SF2:HF. Same moves, for the most part. They just act differently (DP didn't knock down standing opponents in WW, Hurricane Kick has a tiny bit of invincibility on startup in HF, and his fireball is faster, in addition to the entire game being sped up, along with some other minor stuff). Guile is one of the best characters in HF, but an underdog in ST, and one of the worst characters in the game in SFA3. One of the best characters in the game again in CvS. Wolverine was the best character in the game in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter, but is only decent (and only kind of decent) in Marvel vs Capcom 2. Same moves, for the most part. In SF games, the number of and the looks of moves don't always differ, but you're forced use the characters to which they belong differently (If you try to play A3 Honda like ST Honda you'll get yourself killed in a hurry). No, the differences in SF characters between games isn't obvious at first...they generally aren't missing or have gained more than a few things from their last appearance. But those things can change a character a LOT. Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:15:2001 03:05 AM: "If there weren't people who considered almost nothing to be cheap, then nobody would complain about cheapness." The "cheapness" thing isn't a matter of discussion in KoF forums as everybody knows what it is, and I never though necessary to see people having the opposite belief. BTW, it's not complaining, last weekend I played MvsC2 with a friend (not against my friend, we just exchanged turns) and I told him to pick Cable, we laughed for hours as he called me an "ashamed cheapo" for the way I used that character. "Some people want to have their voices heard, and have that be the end of it." I understand the amount of posts thing, but I'm expecting to see something new in the new threads and all I see is the same statement being repeated over and over as if the prior thread never existed. "Well let's take..." I'm not talking about characters having the same moveset from game to game, I'm talking about "different" characters having the same moves with some differences in priority and stuff. They made the same body and animation with slight changes and that's crap. Oh, and Ryo has changed from day 1, obviously some attacks remain the same (DP, Super Fire ball and Ryuuko Ranbu) but several changed (FB, Kick special and no more air FB, except for striker). Terry has changed too, he has varied his fireball reach from game to game and gained new Supers, but I agree it's not that much. On the other hand Ryu and Ken seem to never change at all (I know some changes they came across, but if you just look at what they can do, they seem the same guys from SF2 + a coupe of supers). BTW, I'm not saying that they play the same as SF2. Posted by cocoumi on 02:16:2001 11:49 PM: Snif snif... CHEAPNESS ONLY EXSISTS IN THE EYES OF THE LOOSERS! "HAZAN....TENSHOKYAKU!!!!!" Posted by SithKilla on 02:16:2001 11:54 PM: wow sombody should have said that earlier. [img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img] Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else. Excuses. Posted by ImMature on 02:16:2001 11:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by cocoumi: Snif snif... CHEAPNESS ONLY EXSISTS IN THE EYES OF THE LOOSERS! Who says? Posted by Chocobo on 02:17:2001 06:16 AM: ORyoga and Immature, I have a few questions for you. Here are some things you've said so far- "It's not abt who wins, it's abt how much fun you've got from the token. Things like infinities, turtling and repeated throwing are cheap. There is no need for a skilled player to resort to cheap patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more stylish way. Cheap players bore me." It is clear that you are not a person who plays for the competition of SF, not a person who plays to win... instead, you play to look good, to find and use showy combos, to get a crowd response, that sort of thing... more of a Harlem Globetrotters fan than an NBA fan, to relate it to sports. I'm hoping you can answer all of these questions... first, why are you here? This is mainly a forum for people who play SF for the competitive aspect of the game, people who play to win, people who don't care about fancy stuff. I might expect to see you in the "Combos" section, but in a place where strategy is discussed, you admittedly have no place here. Why are you arguing against skilled tournament players? You each share different views... you play to show off, they play to win. You don't like "cheap" stuff because it's boring and simple, they only care about trying their hardest to win. What is an argument going to accomplish? You won't convert anyone to agree with your ideas, especially a top tournament competitor. You won't influence anyone with your complaints about "cheap" play, because when it comes to competitive playing (which is what most of the people on here care about), there is no such thing as "cheap" since only winning matters. Why do you insult Seth Killian? He provides useful information to the kind of player who enjoys playing to win. Seth doesn't care much for people like you who play for the combos or showoff style of play, but there's no point in insulting him or getting all offensive against him and the people on here who play to win. There's nothing wrong with playing to win, just like there's nothing wrong with playing to show off and look good or whatever. Seth doesn't complain about and insult the players like you who go for showy combos... he insults the stupid people who think they like to play to win, but just use "cheap" as an excuse for their losses due to a lack of skill on their part. Finally, I just want to respond to a particular one of your comments, where you say that a truly skilled player does not need to resort to patterns and general "cheapness" in order to win. Well, what happens if he goes up against another skilled player, when he actually does need those tactics to win? You need to understand, most people play SF with winning as their goal, and complaining about cheapness accomplishes nothing but annoying a lot of people. I'm just hoping that everyone here can see things from the other person's point of view and that this stupid thread (which is now mostly composed of retarded childish insults, launched not because the other person said something stupid... just something different) can die. After the first few pages, there's nothing but insults for a few hundred straight posts. Posted by Pungza on 02:17:2001 10:05 AM: Damn this thread is a hit. Just talking about cheapness has alot of response. Cheapness exist in everygame. i hope MvsC3 is not like MvsC3. I am thinking right what is more cheapper then that game. http://www.geocities.com/pungza/twentyonepositions3.gif I like girls with nice blues eyes and ice cream thighs Posted by Lupid on 02:17:2001 11:07 AM: Chocobo you'd better stop that. Here the scrubs are trying to have a nice chat about how they're too stupid to stop throws and turtling, and you have to come and ask questions that they surely can't answer for fear of being ejected from the scrub support group known as SRK forums. Hey if they're too dumb to answer your questions, that makes your questions CHEAP! "Gayness" does exist. [This message has been edited by Lupid (edited 02-16-2001).] Posted by ImMature on 02:17:2001 03:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by Chocobo: ORyoga and Immature, I have a few questions for you. Here are some things you've said so far- "It's not abt who wins, it's abt how much fun you've got from the token. Things like infinities, turtling and repeated throwing are cheap. There is no need for a skilled player to resort to cheap patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more stylish way. Cheap players bore me." It is clear that you are not a person who plays for the competition of SF, not a person who plays to win... instead, you play to look good, to find and use showy combos, to get a crowd response, that sort of thing... more of a Harlem Globetrotters fan than an NBA fan, to relate it to sports. I'm hoping you can answer all of these questions... first, why are you here? This is mainly a forum for people who play SF for the competitive aspect of the game, people who play to win, people who don't care about fancy stuff. I might expect to see you in the "Combos" section, but in a place where strategy is discussed, you admittedly have no place here. Well first off, we're from the SNK "community" so we don't really care much about SF. Secondly, I have to disagree with you on this forum being mainly for people who care only about the competitive aspects of the game (if you do mean tournaments with that,as I think you do). Cause c'mon, most people here are NOT tournament players, but what Seth called 'mall' or arcade players instead. What happens with all that people? In tournaments you should do whatever it takes to win, we've already said that about a millon times. Who cares about more or less honorable gameplay or cheapness when in tournies (unless some of the possible tactics have been disallowed, that's it)?? I think everybody agrees on this point. But if your question really is, "What are you doing here if you don't like SF/VS series?"...well, that's a different matter entirely quote: Originally posted by Chocobo: Why are you arguing against skilled tournament players? You each share different views... you play to show off, they play to win. You don't like "cheap" stuff because it's boring and simple, they only care about trying their hardest to win. What is an argument going to accomplish? You won't convert anyone to agree with your ideas, especially a top tournament competitor. You won't influence anyone with your complaints about "cheap" play, because when it comes to competitive playing (which is what most of the people on here care about), there is no such thing as "cheap" since only winning matters. Iif tournament players would have cared to actually read our posts before starting mindlessly flamming us they'd have discovered that we ALREADY have stated that in that kind of competitions (tournies) you should do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN regardless of these kinda tactics they hafta use being cheap or not. If you don't believe me ask Jinmaster. He was open-minded enough to try and understand what we were talking about and that's why you don't see him flamming us anymore (or vice versa). What we're trying to accomplish here is to make people consider they shouldn't rely EXCLUSIVELY in that kinda tactics cause once the competence learns how to counteract 'em they'd be dead meat if they don't know other kind of alternate tactics. We're trying to make people IMPROVE their gameplay by knowing the game better so they don't have to rely only in cheap tactics in order to win like most cheapos tend to do (in the SNK community *this* is the type of player who gets called 'scrub' in case you don't know) quote: Originally posted by Chocobo: Why do you insult Seth Killian? He provides useful information to the kind of player who enjoys playing to win. Seth doesn't care much for people like you who play for the combos or showoff style of play, but there's no point in insulting him or getting all offensive against him and the people on here who play to win. There's nothing wrong with playing to win, just like there's nothing wrong with playing to show off and look good or whatever. Seth doesn't complain about and insult the players like you who go for showy combos... he insults the stupid people who think they like to play to win, but just use "cheap" as an excuse for their losses due to a lack of skill on their part. Well actually it's not that we insult Seth Killian himself too much, we do tend to insult his "followers" instead for not being able to think for themselves. About Seth I admit I believe he's a smart guy who makes sense on some of the things he says (like in that article of his about tournie videos among others). But why I wonder is, why does he find the need to call scrub to anyone who disagrees with him in complex, abstract issues (like those relative to cheapness or balance) where absolutely no one will end up having the last word? What makes him think he's the utmost authority when it comes to VGs? And even in the points where he does make sense, why to insult people BEFOREHAND to make his point clear? I really don't get it, why does he feel the need to wield such a self-righteus attitude? quote: Originally posted by Chocobo: Finally, I just want to respond to a particular one of your comments, where you say that a truly skilled player does not need to resort to patterns and general "cheapness" in order to win. Well, what happens if he goes up against another skilled player, when he actually does need those tactics to win? Against another *equally or more* skilled player when he does need those tactics to win? Hell he should use whatever it takes to kick his ass! Leave the honorable gameplay for other challenges, y'know? Or do you think I NEVER play cheaply AT ALL?? But what we're debating here is the existence of cheapness, not honorable gameplay, remember? quote: Originally posted by Chocobo: You need to understand, most people play SF with winning as their goal, and complaining about cheapness accomplishes nothing but annoying a lot of people. I'm just hoping that everyone here can see things from the other person's point of view and that this stupid thread (which is now mostly composed of retarded childish insults, launched not because the other person said something stupid... just something different) can die. After the first few pages, there's nothing but insults for a few hundred straight posts. Who is complaining? See above. We're debating about the EXISTANCE OF CHEAPNESS here. Cheapness is an ingame aspect. Complaints are human reactions. Different things, y'know? Posted by HyperViperSniper on 02:17:2001 03:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Pungza: Damn this thread is a hit. Just talking about cheapness has alot of response. Cheapness exist in everygame. i hope MvsC3 is not like MvsC3. I am thinking right what is more cheapper then that game. <IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/pungza/twentyonepositions3.gif"> I like girls with nice blues eyes and ice cream thighs This has to be one of the most foul signatures I have ever seen.... ugh... HVS Posted by ImMature on 02:17:2001 03:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by HyperViperSniper: This has to be one of the most foul signatures I have ever seen.... ugh... HVS That signature kicked royal butt! All times are GMT. The time now is 03:01 AM. Show all 443 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.