Forums - "Cheapness" does exist
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-- "Cheapness" does exist
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Posted by ghgh on 01:11:2001 09:38 PM:
I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap". WRONG.
The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you mind
"cheap-ness".
Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which
your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or simply
your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage in a game.
This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring, and pointless.
An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball,
sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a
technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do
to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing.
The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can
get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular
jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern.
Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves are
"watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can include
the glitched infinites in many of these new games.
Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are
playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and
all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is
playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's worth,
sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might be
conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or
standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent) pattern
might be justified as "cheap".
I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of you-
who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap". This
was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So before
saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and give him
a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get good as
opposed to leave the arcade and never play again.
That's the bottomline.
Posted by ImMature on 01:11:2001 10:05 PM:
Yeah you tell 'em buddy! About time someone else had the genital fortitude to
speak up his mind on this issue!
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 10:20 PM:
Very good ...
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by Shin-Mech-Brian on 01:11:2001 10:32 PM:
Just how frequently do you use the term "Jabronee?"
http://akumachan.homestead.com/files/akuma.gif It's a Colgate smile!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:11:2001 10:55 PM:
How many fucking times is this topic going to be made? There's no such thing!
IMO is skills. WTF died and made this people in charge? I only hear people that
lose call something cheap! Get over it his better than you that's why his
beating you! If you think the shit they doing is cheap and easy to do why don't
you do it back to them? I guess cause you are going to realize you where sorrier
than what you tough! Bitches!!!!
BTW meaning of Cheap:
Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
Stingy; miserly.
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 11:05 PM:
If you want to argue the definition ... one could say:
"I paid cheap for this great game."
Low cost ... high reward ... just another definition of cheap.
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by TheHY on 01:11:2001 11:09 PM:
We all know we use metaphors in the English language, and 'cheap' is one of
them.
My friend uses Akuma who is cheap. But hey, I don't lose without using another
cheap character or similar 'cheap' tactics.
Cheap does exist, and is indeed acquired with little effort. Did I hear little
effort? As in, little effort, little skill?
Surely, everyone has seen Akuma players cower in corners, jumping back and forth
throwing air fireballs having lost a round. If that isn't cheap, why didn't they
use that tactic in the previous round then?
I agree that you DO need skill to overcome cheapness but as explained the
meaning of 'cheap' in certain literature: -
Cheap - Cheap Victory; Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible; Stingy;
Miserly.
Therefore, I rest my case...
Posted by Colossus on 01:11:2001 11:15 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ghgh:
I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap".
WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you
mind "cheap-ness".
Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which
your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or
simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage
in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring,
and pointless.
An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball,
sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a
technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do
to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing.
The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys
can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially
regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern.
Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves
are "watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can
include the glitched infinites in many of these new games.
Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are
playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and
all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is
playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's
worth, sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might
be conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or
standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent)
pattern might be justified as "cheap".
I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of
you- who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap".
This was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So
before saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and
give him a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get
good as opposed to leave the arcade and never play again.
That's the bottomline.
In my opinion if you suck then you deserve to lose.Cheap or not if the pattern
is breakable then it's not cheap. You say that some people might have a
disadvantage if they don't know how to break patterns...that's like someone
complaining to me that I could do a fireball and they can't. If the game was
created that way then it was meant to be used that way.I admit games like MvC2
is outta line but I just don't play it as much....see problem solved. Throwing
techniques can get annoying that's why they made it so that you can't combo into
a throw.Everytime I go to play Alpha 3 I always get a complain that I throw too
much but I'm using zangief dammit. So my thought is if you can't break a pattern
then too bad. If you don't like being thrown then play keep away. *also note
that playing keep away may be considered cheap*
Posted by Psycho Soldier on 01:11:2001 11:21 PM:
Just to make everyone happy...
Don't call the so-called questionable moves/gameplay "cheap". Call it for what
it REALLY is...
annoying...
repetitive...
predictable...
FOR GOD'S SAKE, it's not "cheap"... if it's in the game it was meant to be there
(besides obvious programming glitches). Good gameplay is what everyone wants...
sensible gameplay is what people do... but not all good, sensible gameplay is
fun. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE GAMEPLAY IS CHEAP.
In the long run, it makes everyone happy... and we don't have to go through
these long-winded "you have no skill" type discussions. They TRULY are sad to
see.
[This message has been edited by Psycho Soldier (edited 01-11-2001).]
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:11:2001 11:28 PM:
So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns
cheap?
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:11:2001 11:50 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hibiki:
So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns
cheap?
Errrmmm, yes, glitches and infinites are cheap (they were never though to be
there). When talking abt lockdowns you mean like doing a move that freezes the
screen letting the guy with most energy win? In that case it is.
Cheap doesn't equal to winner. You can be cheap and still loose miserably
(making you a bigger looser). So cheapness exists, it's your decision to become
a scrub (and get wacked at Japan and say joysticks worked too well) or a real
player.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:23 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by TheHY:
My friend uses Akuma who is cheap. But hey, I don't lose without using another
cheap character or similar 'cheap' tactics.
YOu call Akuma cheap and I call you a SCRUB!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:25 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Colossus:
In my opinion if you suck then you deserve to lose.Cheap or not if the pattern
is breakable then it's not cheap. You say that some people might have a
disadvantage if they don't know how to break patterns...that's like someone
complaining to me that I could do a fireball and they can't. If the game was
created that way then it was meant to be used that way.I admit games like MvC2
is outta line but I just don't play it as much....see problem solved. Throwing
techniques can get annoying that's why they made it so that you can't combo
into a throw.Everytime I go to play Alpha 3 I always get a complain that I
throw too much but I'm using zangief dammit. So my thought is if you can't
break a pattern then too bad. If you don't like being thrown then play keep
away. *also note that playing keep away may be considered cheap*
I agree and for throws, I say TechHit!
Bitches!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 12:27 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hibiki:
So I could call Glitches cheap ... could I also call infinites and lockdowns
cheap?
Glitches are Glitches they aren't cheap!
No you can call infinites infinites and lockdowns lockdowns!
Posted by PsychoSquall on 01:12:2001 01:07 AM:
I think people here are divided on the what the definition of the word "cheap"
is. Does it mean that there's no way out of a cheap tactic? Or is the term a
type of tactic used in SF?
Scrubs call people cheap, no doubt.
Cheaps are a strategy used in the game. (the term probably originated from all
the scrubs) I say this because in the SFA2 Versus Books Strategy Guide, (it was
written by top players such as Alex Valle, John Choi, Mike Watson...) each of
the characters had a section called CHEAPS. They describe tactics which they
themselves label as cheap.
The book defines the word cheap as: "a throw (or sure-killing technique/Super
Combo throw) done at a time where an opponent will have extreme difficulty
countering. This tactic feels 'cheap,' or unfair, simply because you can do
something relatively easy for a big reward, while the opponent will have to do
something relatively hard just to get out of it."
So cheaps do exist in SF. They are a huge part of the game. Just because it's
called cheap doesn't mean it can't be dealt with.
Cheap is a word describing a tactic in SF. Scrubs bitch about cheapness a lot,
but that's because they're ignorant. Don't let it get to you, it's just a word.
[This message has been edited by PsychoSquall (edited 01-11-2001).]
Posted by phillip on 01:12:2001 01:11 AM:
hmmmmm...
http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/phillip_2.gif
Check out my faqs http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/7106.html
Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 01:27 AM:
I've heard Chun has been called "cheap", among other colorful names
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/staff/bahn/teaminterpol.gif
The Next Level
"Power is useless without skill and speed"
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 01:34 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by bahn:
I've heard Chun has been called "cheap", among other colorful names
And who the fuck is Chun? Just a question Bahn!
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 01:38 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelomaniac:
Glitches are Glitches they aren't cheap!
No you can call infinites infinites and lockdowns lockdowns![/B]
So ... I can use glitches and it would be okay ...
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by Darthyang on 01:12:2001 01:54 AM:
I think cheap-ness does exist... but despite what scrubs say, I think in certain
games, lockdowns, traps etc. are not cheap. For example, in MvC2. There's 2 main
styles of play; Keepaway and lockdown, and rushdown. Because of the way the game
was designed, it's just far easier to win using the keepaway and lockdown
strategy than it is to win using rushdown; that's just the way it was made, and
I think if people call you cheap for playing that way, they're just ignorant.
What I do consider cheap, however, is when a person plays in an absolutely
skill-less manner, and abuses imbalances in the game. I don't consider traps
cheap; it takes good skill to learn how to execute traps well. I however,
consider Colossus cheap. 6-Hit 50% combos that people playing the game for the
first time can figure out? Yeah. Cheap, in my opinion.
==
http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/ff8seifer.gif "The way I look at it,
as long as you make it out of battle alive, you're
one step closer to fulfilling your dream."
-Seifer
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 02:00 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hibiki:
So ... I can use glitches and it would be okay ...
It would be find by me! The only glitch that i would mind is the gambit glitch
but I would give a fuck! Cause 1st you have to be winning!
Posted by Crusader on 01:12:2001 02:11 AM:
You'll never see a winner call the loser a cheap player. But how many times do
you see the loser say it? Hmmmm....
Posted by DrunkinB on 01:12:2001 02:48 AM:
good point Crusader
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 02:50 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Crusader:
You'll never see a winner call the loser a cheap player. But how many times do
you see the loser say it? Hmmmm....
I just wander where the fuck have you been!
I couldn't explained it better!
P. S. MODS if the guy thosen't have a shield how can you tell he got a KARMA?
Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 02:54 AM:
quote:
And who the fuck is Chun? Just a question Bahn!
I wasn't referring to a player, I am speaking of Chun Li man...c'mon, I thought
that was pretty obvious
[This message has been edited by bahn (edited 01-11-2001).]
Posted by bahn on 01:12:2001 03:01 AM:
quote:
P. S. MODS if the guy thosen't have a shield how can you tell he got a KARMA?
Well, Inkblot mentioned looking at the source code awhile back (but that's like
really odd to see someone go to such an extent to monitor their own karma).
The most obvious is to look at the glowing area around their shields, as the
karma increases, the glowing effect will become brighter. Of course, if you get
negative karma, it will show up as you gain -1 or more, and if it continues
(simply because you have the inability to follow guidelines and such) - you can
end up being banned.
Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:12:2001 03:08 AM:
cant we move on from this topic? there is no such thing as cheap. period. if
someone plays cheap then that is just strategy, even if it includes a trap or
glitch. dont complain just because youre getting hit or losing. deal with it.
stop complaining and learn how to kick some ass. plus, the only definition of
cheap is what kelo said.
Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:46 AM:
Bullshit. Fuckin gambit glitch users are the bottom of the shit barrel. Its like
they can choose when the fight ends. What kind of BULLSHIT is that!?!?!!?!?!?!!?
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love
... fucker
Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 03:47 AM:
I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something
stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it
sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish, watch
the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you see
them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even tech hit
consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical solution to
everything.
Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't
automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when
you know nothing.
P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros?
Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:48 AM:
Glitches are fucked up things that arent suppozed to be in the fuckin game.
[This message has been edited by JohnShaft (edited 01-11-2001).]
Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 03:49 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by YOUHEARDME:
I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something
stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it
sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish,
watch the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you
see them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even
tech hit consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical
solution to everything.
Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't
automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when
you know nothing.
P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros?
Right the fuck on YOUHEARDME!!! That fuckin hater hope he gets whats coming to
him when he grows the fuck up!
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love
... fucker
Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 04:05 AM:
Heh, I like your sig John Shaft, but I wouldn't bother arguing with most guys at
shoryuken.com unless it's a flame war over a silly topic that I started
You see, they don't bother reading half the stuff you put and just want to flame
you. They somehow find it appalling to them that if you don't think exactly like
they do, the get all upset and stupid and think it's necessary to "educate".
The only reason that I posted anything is cuz that Kelomaniac isn't too smart
and annoys me, I mean, 3909 posts and most of them are him spouting crap out the
keyboard.
Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 04:09 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by YOUHEARDME:
Heh, I like your sig John Shaft, but I wouldn't bother arguing with most guys
at shoryuken.com unless it's a flame war over a silly topic that I started
You see, they don't bother reading half the stuff you put and just want to
flame you. They somehow find it appalling to them that if you don't think
exactly like they do, the get all upset and stupid and think it's necessary to
"educate".
The only reason that I posted anything is cuz that Kelomaniac isn't too smart
and annoys me, I mean, 3909 posts and most of them are him spouting crap out
the keyboard.
Damn you said it. Just cause you dont say what they wanna fuckin hear they call
you scrub and flame you like its no tomorrow. Its good meeting someone real
around here. I have a feeling Im gonna get banned pretty soon. I wonder the fuck
why?
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love
... fucker
Posted by Chocobo on 01:12:2001 04:43 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ghgh:
I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap".
WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you
mind "cheap-ness".
"Cheap" exists- it is simply an excuse for someone without skill who wants to
blame his losses on something besides himself.
quote:
Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which
your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or
simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage
in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring,
and pointless.
That sounds about right. Since there are virtually no patterns that cannot be
broken, the only way something can be "cheap" is if your opponent lacks skill.
So if he calls your tactics cheap, that's nothing but saying he lacks skill
himself.
quote:
An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball,
sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a
technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do
to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing.
Yes, there is. He can jump upwards over the fireballs, slowly advance on the
opponent, and then go for a repeated throw trap that is difficult to escape.
[B][QUOTE]
The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys can
get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially regular
jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern.
[B][QUOTE]
<rest of quote snipped>
Basically, "cheap" means "I suck too much to make this a close fight so I'll
blame you instead of myself".
So who cares what some scrubby morons think? Why is this a topic yet again?
Posted by JohnShaft on 01:12:2001 04:46 AM:
Thanks, you just prove my point even more about freakin haters.
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/reCAMFING.jpg to Kelomaniac with love
... fucker
Posted by Dangerous on 01:12:2001 05:04 AM:
Do most of you guys play other games besides Street Fighter and the like? You
would probably relize, like I did, that cheapness is really anybodys sort of
decision whether he/she wants to use it or not.
heh, I don't think somebody is going to use a gambit glitch don't you think?
That would sure stop the game now wouldn't it? No fun at all! In MvC2 I use some
cheap stuff and I still get my ass whooped, and I get called cheap at the same
time for it!
I personally don't mind cheap stuff in games too much. I still have fun, no
matter what. Just a game, right? Sometimes it's more than that, but common,
that's only tournament material, where there's more involved than just the five
dollars you intended to spend. I think players should learn to tolerate each
other, no matter how they play. Kind of like putting the picture together or
something.
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 05:14 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Dangerous:
Do most of you guys play other games besides Street Fighter and the like? You
would probably relize, like I did, that cheapness is really anybodys sort of
decision whether he/she wants to use it or not.
heh, I don't think somebody is going to use a gambit glitch don't you think?
That would sure stop the game now wouldn't it? No fun at all! In MvC2 I use
some cheap stuff and I still get my ass whooped, and I get called cheap at the
same time for it!
I personally don't mind cheap stuff in games too much. I still have fun, no
matter what. Just a game, right? Sometimes it's more than that, but common,
that's only tournament material, where there's more involved than just the
five dollars you intended to spend. I think players should learn to tolerate
each other, no matter how they play. Kind of like putting the picture together
or something.
That's profound ^_^ ::golfclap:: hehehe ...
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:12:2001 08:00 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ghgh:
I've read one too many posts saying that there is nothing called "cheap".
WRONG. The real question is not if "cheap" exists, it's whether or not you
mind "cheap-ness".
Let me give you my definition of cheap - a simple pattern that you use, which
your opponent cannot break (whether it's a technical issue in the game or
simply your opponents lack of skill), and repeat to take the heavy advantage
in a game. This type of pattern usually makes the game repetitious, boring,
and pointless.
An example for you old school SF2 players would be Honda vs Ryu - fireball,
sweep. Another is the short-short-throw pattern. The first example is a
technical issue of being cheap. Technically, there isn't anything Honda can do
to break the pattern if Ryu has correct distance and timing.
The second example is a lack of skill type cheap. Sure, about 2% of you guys
can get out of that pattern, but I KNOW most of the others - and especially
regular jabronees in the local arcades- cannot break the pattern.
Even though cheap techniques aren't easy to find anymore (because many moves
are "watered-down" in the new fighting games), other examples of cheap can
include the glitched infinites in many of these new games.
Exactly what makes something "cheap" is relative to each situation. If you are
playing a top notch player and both of you are capable of reversing ticks and
all that mess, cheap would rarely exist. On the otherhand, if a top player is
playing a first-timer and, instead of giving the poor dude his quarter's
worth, sets him in a pattern or trap for the majority of the game - this might
be conceived as "cheap" play. To reiterate, instead of using strategy and/or
standard attacks, using a simple, yet unbreakable (relative to opponent)
pattern might be justified as "cheap".
I personally do not mind cheapness, but I know many a person- maybe some of
you- who cried, wanted to fight, whined, whatever because of my being "cheap".
This was especially true when four throws and a fierce would equal an KO. So
before saying there's no cheaps, think about the poor fella you're playing and
give him a good showing. That way, maybe he'll play again and eventually get
good as opposed to leave the arcade and never play again.
That's the bottomline.
Maybe you're right. Maybe cheapness in fact does and will always exist. I guess
there's only one way to eliminate cheapness, and that is for you to stop
playing.
Are you confused? Let me elaborate. Have you ever heard the saying:
When a tree falls, in a deserted area, does it make any noise? How can sound
exist, when there is no one around to hear it?
Same thing for this situation. If you stop playing it will solve the existence
of cheapness because how can cheapness possibly exist where there are no scrubs
to see it?
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:12:2001 08:05 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by YOUHEARDME:
I should be looking for porn pics of Kelomaniac's mom but he said something
stupid yet again, so if someone throws you, you just tech hit huh? You make it
sound like it's second nature to you and that it's so easy to accomplish,
watch the CvS tourney vids of James Chen Vs. Alex Valle, how many times do you
see them tech hitting throws? They are the top players and they don't even
tech hit consistently or at all. So don't think there's a simple magical
solution to everything.
HA HA HA, That's just 4 Clips out of how many? The same Clips that people are
judging the game of the players? The same Clips that people are talking about
ordinary skills! Shut the fuck up bro! I see Valle, Viscant, Duc tech hitting
all the fucking time! As a matter fact the MvsC2 tourny last year that I have
recorded! I see like a fucking dozen of tech hits in one match from Duc! We
where laughing about that! He came up too me and said KELO did you like those
tech hits!? Bitch so shut the fuck up!
quote:
Contrary to your belief, if a person thinks something is cheap, it doesn't
automatically make them the loser, you really shouldn't assume everything when
you know nothing.
Well bitch answwer Crus. question how many people in the arcade that wins call
his shit cheap? Give me a ... ohhh ... nevermind!
quote:
P.S. Who loses more sleep from posting? You or Ultros?
Well I can answer that question since most of my post come from work!(Can you
belive it? I get pay and enjoy my self at the same time, just like your mom that
whore).
P. S. Who of ya player haters think about me the most! HA HA HA HA HA HA. Ya
give me satisfaction! I guess when you are num 1 you have a target in your head!
Bitches!!!!!
Posted by Mr_Geese on 01:12:2001 08:10 AM:
I like to play cheap and I do not mind cheapness. It is better than pretending
to be good and you are not, so I have to play cheap and bust you up to show you
how weak you are. (*^_^*)
Posted by AmakusaShiroTokisada on 01:12:2001 08:49 AM:
Not again! Geese is leading a hostile mob of the ignorant in a deliberate effort
to deride the forum, this disturbance must be obviated.
Suffer humans!!!!!!!
Posted by ASSMASTERX on 01:12:2001 09:40 AM:
Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw.
The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS. What
the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL LIKE
FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY.
PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS!
Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:12:2001 09:41 AM:
Not this arguement again. People have already begun to lose their tempers. Let
each man to his own opinion.
Case closed.
Posted by CaliStorm on 01:12:2001 10:14 AM:
TESTING
Posted by Strider Hiryu on 01:12:2001 10:32 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Lee:
Not this arguement again. People have already begun to lose their tempers. Let
each man to his own opinion.
Case closed.
I agree...
oh yeah... I dont care how you play, but if you pull some ruby heart/gambit
freeze bullshit with me, i prolly will start some shit...
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/StriderTag.gif Prepare to DIE....[8/27]
Posted by YOUHEARDME on 01:12:2001 02:01 PM:
Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom,
they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners
calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them and
making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according to the
way you like.
4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I watched
them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take that proof
over your stupidity.
Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my mom
gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all the
money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth, LOL.
[This message has been edited by YOUHEARDME (edited 01-12-2001).]
Posted by The Raging Demon on 01:12:2001 04:57 PM:
If you ask me, cheapness does exist but it is not as big a problem as people
seem to think. I think being cheap in any video game is to do things that are
really easy, and incredibly affective. For instance, in Soul Calibur, if you
pick Sigfried, by pressing vertical, vertical, vertical, you do a high-high-low
attack which is very damaging, relatively quick and has a fast recovery rate.
However once you are used to blocking it or develope a counter to this, it is a
very minor threat. Examples like this exist in many games of all genres.
http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/SIG.jpg
Gato is god. Hang on, no he isn't, he's gato!
Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:12:2001 04:59 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by YOUHEARDME:
Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom,
they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners
calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them
and making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according
to the way you like.
4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I
watched them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take
that proof over your stupidity.
Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my
mom gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all
the money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth,
LOL.
[This message has been edited by YOUHEARDME (edited 01-12-2001).]
A bit harsh and not professional.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:12:2001 06:33 PM:
Ah, this thread began with an interesting post and was Ok until a bunch of
retards showed up. Guess some idiots think that calling someone else "scrub"
gives them the instant victory.
Say, i can play against a guy using cheap patterns, beat him and still call him
cheap. Why? Because he's boring and made me repeatedly trash him using one or
two techniques over and over again (there are not infinite ways to stop a cheap
pattern, only one or two).
So cheap not equal to effective (can you read that?).
Now, why do people constantly say cheapness doesn't exist and it's the looser
the one who calls other people cheap? Well, the answer is obvious, because
they're scrubs, they cannot play in a non-cheap fashion (aka showing a good
gameplay) so they must eliminate what points them as scrubs, by saying cheapness
doesn't exist.
Now I wonder why am I wasting my time with retards.
Posted by Crusader on 01:12:2001 10:18 PM:
O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell
would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's
not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a
scrub to make himself feel better.
Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle, do
you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll
throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get around
throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days, or don't
play the game.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:12:2001 10:33 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Crusader:
O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell
would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's
not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a
scrub to make himself feel better.
Have you ever played against someone who does repeatedly the same thing over and
over again? Did you noticed that to counter it you sometimes have to do an
equally repetitive pattern? ('cause that pattern is the only way to counter his
shit) Now do you enjoy playing that way? It's not abt who wins, it's abt how
much fun you've got from the token.
quote:
Originally posted by Crusader:
Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle,
do you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll
throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get
around throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days,
or don't play the game.
Again, if there is only a way for me to counter a cheap pattern then I'll use
it. And one thing is playing for the fun, and other thing is competition (where
your aim is to win). Even though if a non cheap technique can be used, then I'll
take that path. It's my choice to be or not cheap, but you cannot say cheapness
doesn't exists.
Sory to disappoint you but my post was a very though one as this matter has been
discussed many times in many places.
Posted by ImMature on 01:12:2001 10:41 PM:
Cheap play DOES exist & has 2 different uses:
1) To help cheapos beat the newbies and to make the newbies become even cheaper
(in the hopes of winning someday)
2) To bore the experienced players (who have seen all this crappy paterns being
used in the past over & over again, so they know very well how to counteract 'em
all) to death
Conclussion: If you lose be original and don't blame it on cheapness. Blame it
on the controller working fine instead. Just like the so-called expert players
who don't believe in cheapness:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/For...TML/000012.html
Posted by Shishio-sama on 01:12:2001 10:59 PM:
For me,the only thing that is cheap is breaking my opponents fingers before or
after we play.Stop this cheap nonsense and play.
"Strength and Honor"
Maximus
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:12:2001 11:01 PM:
Glitches, although may not be cheap, give an unfair advantage.
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by TheHY on 01:12:2001 11:01 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelomaniac:
YOu call Akuma cheap and I call you a SCRUB!
[/b]
Akuma IS "cheap" in a sense that he has more cheap tactics than most characters.
I don't mind players using "cheap" tactics on me because I know how to deal with
them. Therefore I am no "scrub".
If I were, I wouldn't be writing a Parrying FAQ and neither would I be enjoying
the hell out of myself beating players who use such tactics.
Don't get me wrong, I don't bitch about cheapness, because I can deal with it
and accept for a fact that it exists. I prefer to play without having to resort
to cheap tactics because I want to be skillful at the game and diversify.
IMO, it is fine for beginners to play cheap tactics to get to know the game and
to size up against advanced challengers. But for an advanced player to play
cheap, it is unthinkable.
"You Have no Dignity" - Look who's talking?
[This message has been edited by TheHY (edited 01-12-2001).]
Posted by Mr_Geese on 01:12:2001 11:36 PM:
That is why I like Akuma... (*^_^*)
Posted by Iceman on 01:13:2001 01:18 AM:
Oh boy, "Who let the scrubs out?! Cheap! Cheap! Cheap Cheap!" So, I forgot,
what's cheap again. Low cost, high reward. Well, in that case find a previous
post of mine from about a month ago where I demonstrate that 53 out of 56 MvC2
characters are cheap thanks to this definition (Morrigan, Roll, and Amingo were
not). Something repetative is cheap? And someone has already said you must be
repetative (therefore cheap yourself) to counter it. Hell, I think it is pretty
damn funny when I do the same counter over and over again and my opponent STILL
trys the same thing. A good example, last time I played a group of people in
MvC2, I had Ken as my AAA. These guys kept trying to jump in, to land combos,
and I knocked them out of the sky with Ken 95% of the time they jumped (the
other 5% they got smart and blocked). I was repetative (and cheap) because they
were too predictable. It's been said something predicatable is cheap. If a
pattern is so predicatable, why don't you counter it? Is it because you suck?!
We have too many people here who think they are actually GOOD. BTW, I forgot who
said this, just because you write a FAQ, it doesn't automatically make you good.
Look at 90% of the FAQs for MvC2 at gamefaqs.com. They suck!! You have one
saying the "Ultimate Cheese Team" is Spider-Man/Guile/Iceman. You have another
saying Strider is just average, while Guile is one of the best on the game. I'd
hate to see what they thought if they saw my "slightly above average"
Spiral/Sentinel(or Doom or Sabretooth)/Blackheart. IMO the Ultimate Cheese Team
would be Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops (charge a full meter, DHC HailStorm, HSF,
fierce, DHC HSF, MOB, HailStorm, rinse repeat) or Blackheart/Storm/Cyclops (same
thing with Inferndo xx HoD, HailStorm, Lighting Storm, MOB, HoD).
On a final note, I'm like a good bad guy on WWF. I LOVE to hear boooos and crys
of cheap from the crowd, or my opponent. It's music to my ears. I know I've
gotten into their heads when they start crying cheap. It seems some player has
managed to get into a lot of your heads. Instead of crying cheap, why don't you
ask how to beat the cheese? I call Gambit glitch cheap, because it is an
"illegal" (i.e. banned from any decent tournament) glitch. It is gamebreaking.
Everything else (juggy glitch, AHVB) is powerful, but not quite gamebreaking. I
call lots of stuff cheese and BS (like 90% of MvC2) jokingly. But in a serious
conversation, NOTHING IS CHEAP
Posted by Mega Man X on 01:13:2001 02:18 AM:
Yes there is Cheapness what the hell u guys talking about. I use Mega Man alot.
Hes my man guy on MVC2 i know when i'm being cheap. When i sit there and start
firing off a few fireballs and turn into hyper mega man thats cheap, i have
grudge for that agianest any Cable players they know what i'm talking about, how
sit there and jump and do Hyper Venom Fucking Viper all day
Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:13:2001 02:43 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Mega Man X:
Yes there is Cheapness what the hell u guys talking about. I use Mega Man
alot. Hes my man guy on MVC2 i know when i'm being cheap. When i sit there and
start firing off a few fireballs and turn into hyper mega man thats cheap, i
have grudge for that agianest any Cable players they know what i'm talking
about, how sit there and jump and do Hyper Venom Fucking Viper all day
I don't believe things are cheap because even if a pattern is 99.9% unbreakable,
even if I lost to that lock down, I wouldn't make excuses. It would be my fault
for not finding that .1% of a chance to get an opening, and win the match.
Posted by TheHY on 01:13:2001 03:22 AM:
Perhaps we all seem to be drifting off a bit on this topic. Almost all the
arguments use MvC2 as its basis for determining whether cheapness exists.
I'm not an avid MvC2 fan, but having read all the arguments (and the humour) it
seems that MvC2's tactics are totally different and unique to those of other Vs.
games.
From what I can see, I have to agree that given the number of long distance
moves i.e. Cable/Cyclops, they're put there to be used most efficiently. By
efficiently, I am sure we all understand that employing such "cheap" tactics are
the methods of using these moves most effectively.
In MvC2's case, I have to say that such tactics aren't cheap. The resources are
there to be used at their optimum. After much thought, I firmly believe that
cheapness does exist. However, cheap shouldn't be the word to use.
What we really mean is 'dirty tactics', or as some have mentioned 'little
effort, high returns'. These have become what we term "cheap". Unfair? Not
likely, for we need to know what we mean by unfair.
Unfair as in e.g. Alpha 2/3 Shin Akuma throwing double air fireballs all day?
Maybe but if I was playing a beginner who employed this, I would accept it with
open arms and say 'Let me teach you how to play this game better' and then I
would have recruited a fellow avid player, instead of "bitching" at "cheapness"
and stopping more players from playing the game.
My final word is this. Cheap is just a term we have given ourselves to express
our frustration over tactics that have been employed repetitively, with little
effort and high effectiveness. We mean to say 'that's unfair' or 'stop doing
that' or as the so called "scrubs" say "I'm plain s**t, I can't take a good
licking without learning how to overcome it". Enough said.
I thank everybody for reading this. And God bless those "scrubs".
Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:13:2001 09:03 AM:
Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The
cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this forum
a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet
again.....
Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over that
gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent jumps at me
and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he does it? It
gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the mouth with a
move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an advantage. So I
SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I love it when idiots
use this term). So I do the most difficult thing possible...... I'll hit him
with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is it more difficult, it's pretty
much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap"
#2......
Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does but
apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me get
this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who barely
has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill him with a
Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit him with a
weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the same amount
of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap" #3......
Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If I'm
Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a disadvantage
from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip damage by doing the
Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble dealing with it, I
SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then? Pray he doesn't bust
me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or should I just try to
dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am I even allowed to dash
in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE MY CHARACTER'S
EFFECTIVENESS?!
I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that
anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used.
WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm
supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to
kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell?
Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if there
were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal would
you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"?
This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it was
gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new? PLEASE! Just
SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap this" and
"cheap that" because you'll find out that......
Traps aren't cheap
Chip Damage isn't cheap
Throwing isn't cheap
Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap
Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for
another three months.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!
Posted by phillip on 01:13:2001 10:19 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The
cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this
forum a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet
again.....
Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over
that gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent
jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he
does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the
mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an
advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I
love it when idiots use this term). So I do the most difficult thing
possible...... I'll hit him with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is
it more difficult, it's pretty much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move
on to "what fools think is cheap" #2......
Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does
but apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me
get this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who
barely has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill
him with a Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit
him with a weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the
same amount of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap"
#3......
Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If
I'm Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a
disadvantage from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip
damage by doing the Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble
dealing with it, I SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then?
Pray he doesn't bust me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or
should I just try to dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am
I even allowed to dash in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE
MY CHARACTER'S EFFECTIVENESS?!
I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that
anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used.
WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm
supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to
kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell?
Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if
there were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal
would you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"?
This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it
was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new?
PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap
this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that......
Traps aren't cheap
Chip Damage isn't cheap
Throwing isn't cheap
Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap
Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for
another three months.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!
____________________________________________
That was alot of writing
http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/phillip_2.gif
Check out my faqs http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/7106.html
Posted by ImMature on 01:13:2001 10:34 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
If my opponent jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon
Punch every time he does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able
to bust Adon in the mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it
correctly gives me an advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it?
[/B]
WTF? Who in the world would call that stuff 'cheap'?!? If someone calls using
anti-air as they're supposed to 'cheap' then he simply doesn't know what he's
talking about
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it
was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new?
PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap
this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that......
Traps aren't cheap
Chip Damage isn't cheap
Throwing isn't cheap
Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap[/B]
Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out
then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need for
him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a more
stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's
effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal
throwing are. This is the way I see it:
Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it and
lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck cares
anyway?
Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to discover
certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy victories and
therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But it's mostly cause
without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times
Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort
to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win
I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or
2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for those
people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP instead of
being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet
Posted by ImMature on 01:13:2001 10:46 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Iceman:
Hell, I think it is pretty damn funny when I do the same counter over and over
again and my opponent STILL trys the same thing.
Y-you actually find that funny?!? Gods how do I hate it, it annoys me to no end!
In those cases I tend to start shouting "WTF ARE YOU DOING, YOU MORON? CAN'T YOU
SEE IT'S NOT WORKING!!" at the poor guy just outta boredom
Posted by HyperViperSniper on 01:13:2001 10:47 PM:
You know after reading all of these posts I have noticed almost everyone has
something constructive to say except Kelomaniac...
I would first of all like to say..I dont find much "cheapness" in many games I
have played..but with Marvel Vs Capcom 2 I have to say this game has the most
glitches out of any game I have ever played...
When you are a great game player and want respect why use a move or character
that has the ability to overcome another character and win because of a
glitch???
Thats NOT respect and shows a lack of gaming ability...
When I go into an arcade and play against someone whether I win or lose if they
beat me hands down with exception skill that requires more than a "one frame
super" or an infinite combo that locks your character in the block frame or
traps you within a block frame then I will give you respect..
I have been playing games for quite sometime and I find Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Fun..but a game that requires little skill when you can pick the right
combination of "glitch and or trap based" characters...
regardless of what excuse someone gives me to use these tactics they can "talk
to the hand"
Oh yeah Kelo...why dont you give us some useful information instead of typing
outta your ass...you need to wipe off your keyboard as much shit as you talk I
bet your keys are brown..
Hype Vipe and All Right!!!
http://homepage.mac.com/korintower/.Pictures/sprites/vegitto_p.gif
Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:15:2001 04:43 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out
then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need
for him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a
more stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's
effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of
normal throwing are. This is the way I see it:
Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it
and lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck
cares anyway?
Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to
discover certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy
victories and therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But
it's mostly cause without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times
Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort
to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win
I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or
2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for
those people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP
instead of being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet
"STYLISH".... LOL! What the hell is that? Is this anything like "True Skill"? I
love it when people use these cryptic words that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHEN
YOU'RE PLAYING SOMEONE WHO'S WORTH A DAMN!!
So let me get this straight..... If I can take some dumbass out just by
throwing, and I do so, I'm being "cheap"? No no, that's right.... I'm not being
"stylish".
ABUSE of THROWS DO NOT compromise the integrity of the game/break the laws of
the game (which is what this word "cheap" means in a game related terms).
Neither does turtling. Doing these things are called "STRATEGY". Is it a "Good
Strategy"? Depends. I don't think so. If you abuse anything against me, I'm damn
sure gonna find out a way to make you pay for it!
You know, so many people think that "fighting with honor" and "winning pretty"
actually mean something. And, HEAVEN FORBID, anyone do something that breaks
these "laws of fighting". We're just not worthy of being played because we fight
to win AT ALL COSTS that don't compromise the integrity of the game. Well, what
the hell makes you think we want to play you? If you're not going to do
EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN (outside of breaking the laws of the video game
itself) then GO HOME!! I don't want to play weaklings. I want to play the people
who want to win!! Take your pretty shit AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Has anybody seen my analog stick? No.. not the controller, just the ANALOG
part..... it broke off somewhere after I threw it out the door and into the
hallway.
Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 07:33 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
"STYLISH".... LOL! What the hell is that? Is this anything like "True Skill"?
I love it when people use these cryptic words that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING SOMEONE WHO'S WORTH A DAMN!!
More often than not (at least in KOF) the cheaper a player is, the crappier.
"Someone who's worth a damn" doesn't have the need to be sooo cheap. I wonder
why most people here have such a hard time trying to understand something that
simple...
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
So let me get this straight..... If I can take some dumbass out just by
throwing, and I do so, I'm being "cheap"? No no, that's right.... I'm not
being "stylish".
If you can take said dumbass out just by throwing, then I'm sure you could beat
him by using a less repetitive/cheap pattern. That is your chance to show off
and amaze the people watching, y'know?
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
ABUSE of THROWS DO NOT compromise the integrity of the game/break the laws of
the game (which is what this word "cheap" means in a game related terms).
Neither does turtling. Doing these things are called "STRATEGY". Is it a "Good
Strategy"? Depends. I don't think so. If you abuse anything against me, I'm
damn sure gonna find out a way to make you pay for it!
You call that stuff "strategy"?!? LOL. Crappy cheap-ass tactics, I'd say. And OF
COURSE you'll find out a way to make 'im pay for it...unless you're a newbie to
the game, in which case you'll just learn yet another way to be cheap in said
game
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
You know, so many people think that "fighting with honor" and "winning pretty"
actually mean something. And, HEAVEN FORBID, anyone do something that breaks
these "laws of fighting". We're just not worthy of being played because we
fight to win AT ALL COSTS that don't compromise the integrity of the game.
Well, what the hell makes you think we want to play you? If you're not going
to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN (outside of breaking the laws of the video
game itself) then GO HOME!! I don't want to play weaklings. I want to play the
people who want to win!! Take your pretty shit AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!
Hey why so pissed off? I'm not even telling you to change your style so stop
telling me to change mine. Can't you see that when you're really experienced at
a game you already know what the (so-called) cheap patterns are so you could use
'em in yer own benefit IF YOU WANTED TO? No "laws of fighting", at least for me,
you (meaning anyone) can play me as you please and then we will see if your "to
win at all costs" stuff can beat my knowledge of the game. If you actually win
then you're superior although you've used the kinda patterns I label as cheap,
no problem at all and I won't complain. Y'know, you're sick of people endorsing
those so-called "laws of fighting" and I can understand it. But I myself am sick
of playing retarded cheapos at my local arcade, people who dishonour a superb
game like KOF that NEVER was made to be played that way, so try to understand me
as well
This has been ImMature saying:
"Retarded people should NOT play KOF. They should go play Mortal Kombat instead"
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 08:01 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by The Invincible Swordsman:
Un....fucking....BELIEVABLE!! It has come again.... the thread of "cheap". The
cry of the lost and the whiners. I thought we got rid of this talk on this
forum a long time ago. Well, it looks like I'm gonna have to put it down yet
again.....
Gentlemen, you say that this "cheap" thing is "anything done over and over
that gives you an advantage". So let me get this straight. If my opponent
jumps at me and I'm Ryu, I SHOULDN'T hit him with a Dragon Punch every time he
does it? It gives me an advantage doesn't it? Being able to bust Adon in the
mouth with a move that's risk free if I perform it correctly gives me an
advantage. So I SHOULDN'T do it? Oh wait, this doesn't take "true skill" (I
love it when idiots use this term). So I do the most difficult thing
possible...... I'll hit him with a jab. Yeah, that's it. That way not only is
it more difficult, it's pretty much 50/50 on who'll get hit. YAY! Let's move
on to "what fools think is cheap" #2......
Chip Damage. Ahhh yes. The DREADED chip damage. Something that EVERYONE does
but apparently don't like to lose to, therefore making it "cheap". So let me
get this straight...... If I'm Storm and I'm going up against Juggernaut who
barely has any life left and I have a maxxed-out super bar, I SHOULDN'T kill
him with a Hail Storm? So what should I do, go the hard route and try to hit
him with a weak kick? Or maybe I should let him hit me so we can both have the
same amount of life left. Let's move on to "what fools think is cheap"
#3......
Something Easily Done At Little Expense So let me get this straight..... If
I'm Strider and I'm going up against Cable and I KNOW that I'm at a
disadvantage from far away and I KNOW that I can get some no-frills chip
damage by doing the Strider/Doom trap and I see my opponent has had trouble
dealing with it, I SHOULDN'T use it? What the hell am I supposed to do then?
Pray he doesn't bust me in mouth with an AHVB when I try to play his game? Or
should I just try to dash in and if my combo gets blocked, just go away? Or am
I even allowed to dash in? Why even bother picking anybody if I can't MAXIMIZE
MY CHARACTER'S EFFECTIVENESS?!
I don't know what's up with you (seemingly) crazy people. It seems to me that
anything that gives me and my character an advantage to win SHOULDN'T be used.
WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! You've been turtling all day..... I'm
supposed to NOT throw you if I see you're still turtling? I'm SHOULDN'T try to
kill you with chip damage to make you come out of your shell?
Yeah, yeah, I know about the Gambit Glitch. And yes, it's bullshit! But if
there were no glitches (AKA the magic ALL DIE button) and all things are equal
would you STILL say that throwing is "cheap"?
This topic was put to rest a LONG time ago before you guys showed up and it
was gone after from every angle. You think you're saying something new?
PLEASE! Just SUCK IT UP and GET BETTER!! Then you won't even care about "cheap
this" and "cheap that" because you'll find out that......
Traps aren't cheap
Chip Damage isn't cheap
Throwing isn't cheap
Maximizing my character's effectiveness isn't cheap
Go home and get better, children. I don't want to see this "cheap" talk for
another three months.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!
I.....agree........completely.
THERE! I SAID IT! I FINALLY AGREE WITH THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN ON SOMETHING!!
GODDAMNIT!!!
He's right, though. This topic has been killed 500 times and then beaten w/an
ugly stick. Go check out Domination 101's article on "Cheapness". We knocked
that bitch three ways to Sunday a LONG time ago. Go read what was written, and
if you still wanna argue, go ahead and try to resurrect the topic.
Generally speaking, most techniques that are accused of being cheap are either
a.) Extremely effective, or b.) Glitches.
Then there is c.) Anything that I can't get around at the current moment and I
don't wanna admit that it's because of my lack of skill, so I call the other
player "cheap" and "dishonorable", because I'm too lazy to work around it at the
time!
I went through this stage of gaming, and BELIEVE ME, I know how it feels. I used
to want to go for the "stylish win", and flex my "skills" by being able to beat
effective tactics w/inferior tactics that looked nice. I call this my "Hayato
stage", mainly because I kept trying to beat people w/my Hayato/Jin/anyone else
team. And Hayato was my main character. It has been firmly established that
Hayato SUCKS ASS in MVC2. But I kept going on, believing that I could beat
everyone if I kept practicing and tried to find new tactics (I found some good
ones, too). But in the end, I realized that I can't beat superior abilities and
tactics with my effort and "skills". Every time I lost to a Cable team, I said
it was because my opponent was "cheap" and didn't wanna fight me for real. But
the truth is, that is immature crap for people who don't want to face up to
reality and play the game right. Yes, playing games is about having fun. But the
objective of fighting games is to beat the living shit out of the other guy. And
if you can't reach your objective, well, you probably aren't having any fun, now
are you?
This is why there is such a big argument over "cheapness". Most things get
accused of being "cheap" because they beat the people who do the accusing.
That's why calling stuff "cheap" is seen by the majority of the serious gaming
community as the act of whining over a loss. That's why a lot of hardcore gamers
don't take threads like these seriously. Now stop the madness.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 08:29 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
He's right, though. This topic has been killed 500 times and then beaten w/an
ugly stick. Go check out Domination 101's article on "Cheapness". We knocked
that bitch three ways to Sunday a LONG time ago.
Yeah just believe EVERYTHING Seth says without hesitation cause he's a god. So
whenever you get your ass kicked don't blame it on yer opponent's cheapness but
on the controller working fine instead. Just like Seth'd do
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Go read what was written, and if you still wanna argue, go ahead and try to
resurrect the topic.
I'm no English major so, although I've been heavily into fighters since '91, I
just don't deserve to talk to Seth. According to him, any grammatical mistake
would prove my whole point wrong
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Generally speaking, most techniques that are accused of being cheap are either
a.) Extremely effective, or b.) Glitches.
Extremely effective...against *newbies* or such. Experienced players already
know how to counteract all that crap
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
I went through this stage of gaming, and BELIEVE ME, I know how it feels. I
used to want to go for the "stylish win", and flex my "skills" by being able
to beat effective tactics w/inferior tactics that looked nice. I call this my
"Hayato stage", mainly because I kept trying to beat people w/my
Hayato/Jin/anyone else team. And Hayato was my main character. It has been
firmly established that Hayato SUCKS ASS in MVC2. But I kept going on,
believing that I could beat everyone if I kept practicing and tried to find
new tactics (I found some good ones, too). But in the end, I realized that I
can't beat superior abilities and tactics with my effort and "skills".
So you TRIED to reach Phase 3 but yer lack of skill did make you return to Phase
2. A pity. Look, both Billy & Mature "suck" in KOF'98 (respectively compared to
their Real Bout & KOF'96 versions). But they're 2 of my favorite SNK chars EVER
so I practiced & practiced with 'em to the point of reaching a good gameplay
level so now I can easily beat '99 DM Omega Rugal *cheapos* just with 'em.
Y'know what's the big deal about using underdogs? Most opponents ain't used to
play against 'em so they'll have a hard time trying to figure out what their
tactics will be. The Japanese guy who kicked everyone's asses at SF3 3rd Strike
used (oh my gawd) *Q*, didn't he? This is *exactly* what I'm talking about
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Every time I lost to a Cable team, I said it was because my opponent was
"cheap" and didn't wanna fight me for real. But the truth is, that is immature
crap for people who don't want to face up to reality and play the game right.
Yes, playing games is about having fun. But the objective of fighting games is
to beat the living shit out of the other guy. And if you can't reach your
objective, well, you probably aren't having any fun, now are you?
Then again, who the fuck cares about what the loser may make up as a excuse?? I
wonder why you people make such a big deal about what happens AFTER the game...
Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 08:29 AM:
Everytime someone takes the "Stylish" way out they compromise there win. Your
way is the impracticle way. Besides, bieng "stylish" is also called being a show
off. You want to look good? Win.
Again, you and Ryoga's argument is that the "cheap" players are boring. You
sound exactly like those VS game loving fools who think KOF is slow and
boring(who also complain about how "boring" the graphics are). Your demoting
yourself to there level everytime you bring up the boring excuse.
"Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of normal throwing are. This is the
way I see it"
ABUSE of normal throws? If its not beating you(like you say) then its not abuse.
It has to be effectivly hurting you for it to be abuse.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Once a guy has gotten good enough to the point of knowing a game inside & out
then he'll find that, although cheapness DOES exist indeed, there is no need
for him to resort to this kinda patterns anymore, cause he can still win in a
more stylish way. Anyway IMHO traps, chip damage & maximizing your character's
effectiveness ain't cheap. Things like infinities, turtling and ABUSE of
normal throwing are. This is the way I see it:
Phase 1: You're starting to learn how to play a game so you still suck at it
and lose more often than not. You may make excuses about it, but who the fuck
cares anyway?
Phase 2: You're starting to get good at said game so you've happened to
discover certain patterns that make easier for you to get (relatively) easy
victories and therefore you think that all this stuff is the Big Shit. But
it's mostly cause without it you'll be dead meat lotsa times
Phase 3: You have a LOT of experience in said game so you don't need to resort
to cheap tactics anymore cause you KNOW there exist more "stylish" ways to win
I'm starting to think that most of the SRK.com crew is either at Phase 1 or
2...You people still think that being cheap is the Big Shit. My advice for
those people is exactly the same, just GET BETTER and reach Phase 3 ASAP
instead of being justifying cheapness all day on the Internet
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 08:40 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Everytime someone takes the "Stylish" way out they compromise there win. Your
way is the impracticle way. Besides, bieng "stylish" is also called being a
show off. You want to look good? Win.
I wanna look good whenever I win. What's the problem?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Again, you and Ryoga's argument is that the "cheap" players are boring. You
sound exactly like those VS game loving fools who think KOF is slow and
boring(who also complain about how "boring" the graphics are). Your demoting
yourself to there level everytime you bring up the boring excuse.
Our argument is boring? Cheap players bore me even worse. And WTF does this have
to do with RETARDED people saying that KOF is slow?? I just don't get it
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
ABUSE of normal throws? If its not beting you(like you say) than its not
abuse. It has to be effectivly hurting you for it to be abuse.
Why?!? Abuse = repeating something over & over again. It doesn't matter if it
actually hurts me or not. Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound
like chi...
Posted by ShroomMasTerMeTh on 01:15:2001 08:44 AM:
i play my friend who doesnt know how to pull off most specials or supers and he
also forgets about blocking. I consider it to be cheap for me to consistantly do
HPHPHPHP VB HVB (its fun to do) or keep him locked down if i KNOW he isnt going
to even put up a fight and will just go away feeling shitty spending 50 cents.
so i will play using either akuma dan and roll or i just wont do anything i am
consistant with. i used to have trouble with remembering evercharacters
launchers in MvC so i played him only using launchers. if i really felt like
winning i would let him at least make him feel like he is winning, throw a super
going the wrong way and whatnot but kill him at the end. i could crush him and
not get the slightest scratch if i felt like itbut i dont need the puny
satisfaction of having a skill as unimportant as fighter video games. i know ppl
that could beat anyone of u in street fighter games just because they would
intimidate u. my bottom line is that is mean to useur full potential at a skill
u excel at in order to make another person feel inferior. besides if u guys
truly had skills u wouldnt have first timers in ur best combos u would have
semi-regulars in a level 3 raging demon or a suicidal dan move perhaps beating
somone without blocking or jumping(fuckin try it).
If you want help, go to a support group.
If you need help, come to me.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 09:13 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Yeah just believe EVERYTHING Seth says without hesitation cause he's a god. So
whenever you get your ass kicked don't blame it on yer opponent's cheapness
but on the controller working fine instead. Just like Seth'd do
Excuse me, but I don't remember saying at any point that Seth was a "god". I
don't agree with s-kill just because he's s-kill. I agree with him because I
find a lot of the stuff he says to be true, out of my own experiences. Get your
unchecked rage under control, buddy. Just because someone agrees w/a moderator
doesn't make them an ass-licking scrub.
BTW, if I lose a fight, I don't blame it on anybody. I just look at the
situation to see what I did wrong, and what I can do to avoid it in the future
(ie, if going for that stylish-looking strategy that is so well thought out
doesn't work, I try to find another. Easy). Don't assume you know everything
about me, considering that you have never seen how I play or know how I think,
you arrogant asshole.
quote:
I'm no English major so, although I've been heavily into fighters since '91,
I just don't deserve to talk to Seth. According to him, any grammatical
mistake would prove my whole point wrong
You apparently have a whole lot of pent-up anger and resentment towards Seth
Killian. I would appreciate it if you kept it to yourself. I am not Seth, and I
don't give a flying fuck what happened between you two in Domination 101 in the
past.
quote:
Extremely effective...against *newbies* or such. Experienced players already
know how to counteract all that crap
This is a bunch of bullshit. Don't tell me that tournament-winning stuff like
Doom/Strider trap and AHVB X 3 hasn't been accused of being cheap. You could be
the most experienced player in the world, and I still bet a good Doom player or
Spiral/Cable/Cyclops could give you a run for your money. You are so full of
yourself.
quote:
So you TRIED to reach Phase 3 but yer lack of skill did make you return to
Phase 2. A pity. Look, both Billy & Mature "suck" in KOF'98 (respectively
compared to their Real Bout & KOF'96 versions). But they're 2 of my favorite
SNK chars EVER so I practiced & practiced with 'em to the point of reaching a
good gameplay level so now I can easily beat '99 DM Omega Rugal *cheapos* just
with 'em. Y'know what's the big deal about using underdogs? Most opponents
ain't used to play against 'em so they'll have a hard time trying to figure
out what their tactics will be. The Japanese guy who kicked everyone's asses
at SF3 3rd Strike used (oh my gawd) *Q*, didn't he? This is *exactly* what I'm
talking about
Did I forget to mention that I can still rip "cheap" Cable players a new asshole
w/Hayato, even though it's hard as hell? You talk about "lack of skill", and yet
I see nothing that you have said to be indicative of having skill. Fucking
arrogance, I tell ya.
BTW, I can kill your Mature/Billy team w/KOF 99 Kyo by himself. Like it makes a
difference. You can beat amateurish little Rugal users who probably don't know
shit about the game in the first place. Let's take someone with your "skill
level", and place him in the seat of Omega Rugal. He uses some of the same
"cheap" tactics as the aforementioned defeated one. And he kills you. Why?
Because unlike the amateur, he can use these "cheap" skills better than the
average player. He has better timing, better execution, he actually takes the
time to watch what you are doing, whatever. What I'm trying to say is, saying
you can beat a bad player who uses those "cheap" tactics says nothing about the
tactic. It simply points out that the person using the tactic was less skilled
that you are (assuming you have skills).
Make any argument you want to about using "underdog" characters. You can use the
most obscure character in the world, and chances are whatever advantage that
obscureness will give you is minimal if you are playing against a person of
equal skill who is using a more effective character with a "cheap" strategy.
Your sheer arrogance sickens me. Get it through your head: beating an amateur
Rugal user w/Mature and Billy Kane does NOT make you the man. I assure you, a
person of your equal skill level using the same tactics will do much better.
quote:
Then again, who the fuck cares about what the loser may make up as a excuse??
I wonder why you people make such a big deal about what happens AFTER the
game...
It's a learning experience, you little rat bastard. The person who says shit is
"cheap" will never get any better and will always be the same little scrub
unable to better himself. The person who admits that it was their lack of skill
(and not the "cheap tactic") that caused their demise will probably at least TRY
to get better at the game. If you think everything ends after "K.O.", then you
are a sad, stupid fuck indeed. Everything you've said so far just reeks of your
overwhelming self-confidence. Eventually, you may end up being beaten repeatedly
by "cheap" tactics, no matter what "underdog" characters or "stylish" tactics
you use. Then you'll have to finally face up to the fact that it's the skill of
the player, not who uses cheap stuff or not, that determines the better player.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 09:22 AM:
"I wanna look good whenever I win. What's the problem?"
Ofcourse, it bumps your ego up. Your a show off. Just like we want to win to do
the same, bump our ego up. Your no different from everybody else on this forum.
"Our argument is boring? Cheap players bore me even worse. And WTF does this
have to do with RETARDED people saying that KOF is slow?? I just don't get it"
Everything. Its a well known mind set that a lot of the people who play only the
VS series arent known for using incredibly intricate strategies, mostly becuase
there isnt much to be found in most of the VS series(no offense intended to
those who like the games). My point is when you talk about winning with "style"
or how boring "cheap" is you sound just like they do when there voicing there
opinion on KOF or a reg SF game.
"Abuse = repeating something over & over again."
Deffinition of ABUSE: Use improperly, misuse.
And yes i did look it up in a dictionary
If its working against you than Im not misusing it.
"Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound like chi..."
Yojimbo is never right about anything. Anybody with half a brain knows that. I
have respect for you(arguments or not), to think you would listen to anything he
says i would lose that respect. Then again Chi was a pretty smart person, though
i didnt agree with her. I thought you were a Chi fan anyways?
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Why?!? Abuse = repeating something over & over again. It doesn't matter if it
actually hurts me or not. Y'know, Yojimbo was right: you're starting to sound
like chi...
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-14-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 09:55 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Excuse me, but I don't remember saying at any point that Seth was a "god". I
don't agree with s-kill just because he's s-kill. I agree with him because I
find a lot of the stuff he says to be true, out of my own experiences. Get
your unchecked rage under control, buddy. Just because someone agrees w/a
moderator doesn't make them an ass-licking scrub.
BTW, if I lose a fight, I don't blame it on anybody. I just look at the
situation to see what I did wrong, and what I can do to avoid it in the future
(ie, if going for that stylish-looking strategy that is so well thought out
doesn't work, I try to find another. Easy). Don't assume you know everything
about me, considering that you have never seen how I play or know how I think,
you arrogant asshole.
Arrogant asshole? Well now I'm telling ya something out of my own experiences:
if you get so much upset about what someone could tell you on the Internet,
probably it doesn't take a lot to get you in the right mood to lose any
challenge. Learn more self-control & discipline, "buddy", it's for yer own good
Oh so you don't follow Seth? Oh my, I'm impressed. Cause most people here at
SRK.com seem to do
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
You apparently have a whole lot of pent-up anger and resentment towards Seth
Killian. I would appreciate it if you kept it to yourself. I am not Seth, and
I don't give a flying fuck what happened between you two in Domination 101 in
the past.
Just in case you're wondering, NOTHING happened between Seth & me in the past.
Why, I don't even like Crapcom fighters in the 1st place so I only started
posting here because of some flamewar I was having with one of yer fellow
posters here. It's only that I don't like "Leaders of the Cult" types, that's
all
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
BTW, I can kill your Mature/Billy team w/KOF 99 Kyo by himself. Like it makes
a difference. You can beat amateurish little Rugal users who probably don't
know shit about the game in the first place. Let's take someone with your
"skill level", and place him in the seat of Omega Rugal. He uses some of the
same "cheap" tactics as the aforementioned defeated one. And he kills you.
Why? Because unlike the amateur, he can use these "cheap" skills better than
the average player. He has better timing, better
execution, he actually takes the time to watch what you are doing, whatever.
What I'm trying to say is, saying you can beat a bad player who uses those
"cheap" tactics says nothing about the tactic. It simply points out that the
person using the tactic was less skilled that you are (assuming you have
skills).
You could kill my Mature/Billy team with Kyo? I DOUBT IT, but you can talk as
much as you please (since it costs you no money anyways). Anyhow, more often
than not only retarded cheapos who don't have any skill would use O. Rugal in
'99 DM, that's right. O. Rugal shouldn't never have been made playable in the
1st place. Or do you think you'd beat *MY* O. Rugal?? Think again, you phase 2
scrub
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Make any argument you want to about using "underdog" characters. You can use
the most obscure character in the world, and chances are whatever advantage
that obscureness will give you is minimal if you are playing against a person
of equal skill who is using a more effective character with a "cheap"
strategy. Your sheer arrogance sickens me. Get it through your head: beating
an amateur Rugal user w/Mature and Billy Kane does NOT make you the man. I
assure you, a person of your equal skill level using the same tactics will do
much better.
Obviously you don't know shit about KOF. Otherwise you'd know that O. Rugal has
a HUGE advantadge against Billy Kane (his fireballs & anti-air would hurt Billy
whenever they touch his POLE). Plus his moves are much more over-prioritized
than Billy's. So, my point is, beating O. Rugal players with Billy or Mature
DOES take skill, the other way around doesn't. And your point is...??
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
It's a learning experience, you little rat bastard.
The person who says shit is "cheap" will never get any better and will always
be the same little scrub unable to better himself. The person who admits that
it was their lack of skill (and not the "cheap tactic") that caused their
demise will probably at least TRY to get better at the game. If you think
everything ends after "K.O.", then you are a sad, stupid fuck indeed.
Everything you've said so far just reeks of your overwhelming self-confidence.
Eventually, you may end up being beaten repeatedly by "cheap" tactics, no
matter what "underdog" characters or "stylish" tactics you use. Then you'll
have to finally face up to the fact that it's the skill of the player, not who
uses cheap stuff or not, that determines the better player.
I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that
believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a
bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you
eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be.
Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're facing
at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good thing
indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course
Posted by ImMature on 01:15:2001 10:13 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Ofcourse, it bumps your ego up. Your a show off. Just like we want to win to
do the same, bump our ego up. Your no different from everybody else on this
forum.
Yeah go on and call me a show off like most people at my local arcade. Hey sue
me or something, how else am I gonna impress the chicks with? With my shitty
job? I guess NOT
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Yojimbo is never right about anything. Anybody with half a brain knows that. I
have respect for you(arguments or not), to think you would listen to anything
he says i would lose that respect. Then again Chi was a pretty smart person,
though i didnt agree with her. I thought you were a Chi fan anyways?
Heh you and Yojimbo are just like Tom & Jerry or something (no offense
intended). The scenario may change (this being Orochinagi.com, Madman's,
KOF4ever, SRK.com etc) but still you'd fight each other to no end...And yeah,
I'm a chi fan INDEED, I think she's one of the most intelligent people I've came
across in my whole life...but still, she'd resort to demagogy in the hopes of
winning an argument, pretty much like you're doing right now...
Posted by The Invincible Swordsman on 01:15:2001 10:58 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that
believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a
bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you
eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be.
Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're
facing at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good
thing indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course.
Now I see what you're saying. You're saying that the less skilled you are the
cheaper you are.
Well what I'm saying is there is no "CHEAP". (other than glitches and maybe
infinities). There are "only levels of skill". Hearing "cheap" to me means
cheating/breaking the laws of the game. Turtling is NOT cheating. Nor is
overthrowing. These are just examples of things used to try to win. Methods of
winning = strategy. Effective Strategy = A winning tactic. A winning tactic = A
*blank* level of skill. Anything that helps you win adds to your level of skill.
It has nothing to do with cheating.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
TURN OFF THAT DAMN LIGHT!!
Posted by Sword_Saint on 01:15:2001 11:32 AM:
Cheap really is only in the case when something is gamebreaking.Like a SRK that
does 90% ALL the time. Not a super a normal special move. Something that reaks
of "how the hell did they let that get thru". Only will i think SOMETHING is
cheap.
But people are "cheap". How simple those "ah dont givafuck" attitude people. WHo
go all out on 5 year old. I mean damn a little kid who's never seen the game and
you kill them in 3 seconds with your perfected Doom/Strider trap. All to fill
some hitlerist powertrip.
I remember a some friends of mine got together to play some games. Tekken 2 had
been on home system for awhile and we had unlocked all the guys. Well one of my
friends never played it before saw heiachi and thought he looked cool. Another
friend shouted "fuck dat he got B-achi" and went to his "A" guy. We said dude
he's never played tekken before, but my other friend didnt see the difference he
just saw the char. He just saw some nameless opponent to be destroyed.
I've seen this a few times working in a 'cade. Is winning really that important
that you have to destroy someone who has never played the game. Thats 'cheap" to
me or at least being a winstreak bitch
"I may not WIN, but to LOSE is the way of the fool."
Posted by Kamui on 01:15:2001 12:32 PM:
This was posted by someone from Singapore on KOFONLINE's forums. I know
Singapore is a SNK driven area, i was suprised to see someone with this
mentality from an area where SNK games rule...Hes a smart one.
"I'm sick and tired of people saying things like "you use Joe as striker, you're
so cheap!", "You play like a coward, always stay there and defend like a turtle,
you're so cheap!", "you use seth as striker and you play turtle, you're so
cheap", "you know nothing but only infinites and cheap infinite repetitive joe
striker combos, you're so cheap!". I mean, come on guys, dun be a sore loser...
people have their own strategies and styles of gameplay...
There's no cheap players, same goes for strikers, playing styles and strategies,
only sore losers... Sure those people use infinites and strikers like joe who
assists you to do infinite combos, and sure those people play turtle... Why in
the first place you lost to that guy/girl whom you claim that he/she is cheap?
Are you overconfident? Are you too careless on your defense? Whatever it is, you
LOST! Stop complaining and get over it! I've seen someone(an expert) who use
Clark, King, Ralf and Joe as striker defeat as many as 30+ challengers(i was one
of them ). But as soon as there's this expert who came and sit down beside that
fella and challenged him, he lost, not once, not twice, but 3 times in a row! He
used Kim, Benimaru, Takuma and Another Iori as striker. He was awesome! Why did
he won? Did the Joe user let him win on purpose? Or did he not try to use his
infinite combos? I dun think so... at the end of the day, it all comes down to
who is more skillful, who has a better strategy, who's reaction is faster and
who plays a better mind game... If you want a game with no infinites, no 100%
combos, no different kinds of strategies, then go make your own game!
If you're still standing your own ground that some strategies and
techniques/tactics are cheap... find your own circle of friends who play like
urself and make your own rules... pretty good idea huh? But you'll never
improve!
Great players dun go around saying others is cheap when they lose... They try
all kinds of strategies and techniques, take up all kinds of challenges and try
to defeat them, learn from their mistakes, corrects them, and trains himself to
be invincible..."
Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 12:43 PM:
"Cheap" is a term that was created by people who have no real skills. Cheap is a
synonym for cheating. This includes throwing, repeating the same attack, the
list goes on and on. There is certain games that a person can cheat in such as a
game of cards, or even on a test in school. But a video game is something that a
person CANNOT cheat in. All you have is your controllers and buttons to
influence the outcome of the game. All the rules of the game are electronically
built in and CANNOT be compromised. Elements in the game such as throwing are
part of the game, otherwise it wouldn't have been included. I immediately lose
ALL respect for a player who believes in the term cheap and adheres to its
irrational rules.
I've encountered a lot of different situations involving throwing. Basically a
large portion of the fighting game playing population has declared throwing to
be "cheap." In arcades when a person throws another guy the person will usually
apologize immediately and let the other person throw him back as an act of
restitution. I've actually witnessed fist fights erupt from this irrational
belief. I have a deep hate for people who do this because they take away from
the fun of the game. Fortunately I've never been in one of these sad situations.
I have never relied on throwing to win, although I would like to have it in my
arsenal as an option if the situation called for it.
One of my favorites is the term “turtle.” If a player has good defense and can
block against dashing attacks, etc., some people will say they’re turtling! It’s
really strange but I’ve noticed that people who use fast combo characters such
as Psylocke, Cammy, etc. expect you to get hit with their dash in attacks, every
single time. If you happen to avoid getting hit, they start to get frustrated
and say you’re turtling.
The second most frequent "cheap" complaint I've heard is: "Is that all you can
do? Is that all you know? Can't you do anything else?" Basically if I engage in
a strategy that the person cannot counter, then the person will start to
complain that I keep doing the same thing.
The only way for cheap to exist is if someone finds a way to play outside of
what the programmers of the game intended. This includes gambit glitch from
MVC2, invisible throw with guile from the old street fighter 2. Pressing your
opponent’s start button to make them taunt is also another way. These actions
are obviously cheating because they were never intended to be part of the game.
Anything that the programmers meant to be in the game cannot be cheap, because
that’s exactly how the programmers designed the game.
The list of "cheap" goes on forever. ALL people who complain about their
opponent cheating are just making excuses for losing. There are no exceptions to
this rule.
Nathan Summers
Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 12:51 PM:
For this discussion to be effective, we must define cheap.
CHEAP=cheating.
CHEAP refers to cheating only.
It does not include: repetitive, turtle, pattern, and style.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 05:26 PM:
"Cheap is a term that was created by people who have no real skills"
Did you meet the guy who invented the trm? I don't think so, so stop assuming
things.
"Cheap is a synonym for cheating"
Now what? Are you redefining the language?
"In arcades when a person throws another guy the person will usually apologize
immediately and let the other person throw him back as an act of restitution"
If that was true, I would be hated (or punched) at my arcade. If you throw a
couple of times it's not wrong (if you whiff a move at close range you will
surely throw), if you do it all the time, that means you're playing a newbie.
Now, if you're playing a newbie, why to use such a repetitive and crappy
technique? Why not use a combo or a couple of special moves to make the other
guy get more into playing? At the end, it's just a matter of choice.
"expect you to get hit with their dash in attacks, every single time"
If someone attacks you, and you have no better choice than blocking, then what's
the problem with that?
Turtling means staying in a corner doing a repetitive and somewhat safe move.
Now, in KoF (MvsC2 is the last game I would bring in a "cheapness" discussion)
you can throw fireballs and do jump straight up CD (sometimes the fireballs are
not necessary). Now is this pattern unbeatable? The answer is "No" (in fact it's
somewhat easy to beat).
"ALL people who complain about their opponent cheating are just making excuses
for losing. There are no exceptions to this rule."
Now you're assuming something and stating it as an undeniable truth. I never
seen someone losing and telling the winner he was a cheapo. It maybe a regional
thing where no one gives a rat's ass abt what the other thinks, but most losers
complain abt joysticks being broken (and sometimes it happens to be true) or
just slam the joystick after loosing (which wacks the joystick). It's most
likely to see a experienced player telling someone else that the one he beaten
was cheap that the other way around.
The Invincible Swordman said: "There are only levels of skill"
That was what ImMature mentioned, the three phases. If your phase 2 technique
works at your arcade, fine, but don't complain when you meet someone who's at
phase 3. The bad thing is that if you feel your technique is good and don't try
anything else, then your skill will be limited.
Nobody expects Valle to win a tournament in Japan by using the same technique he
used in the US (or at least that's what I hope).
Posted by Shigure on 01:15:2001 05:28 PM:
..I like to play fighting games
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:15:2001 06:28 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Arrogant asshole? Well now I'm telling ya something out of my own experiences:
if you get so much upset about what someone could tell you on the Internet,
probably it doesn't take a lot to get you in the right mood to lose any
challenge. Learn more self-control & discipline, "buddy", it's for yer own
good
Oh so you don't follow Seth? Oh my, I'm impressed. Cause most people here at
SRK.com seem to do
Please shut up. You really don't know me as a person, so don't pretend that you
can make such a judgement on my character. Yes, I did get upset because of what
you said, but that really says nothing about my attitude when I'm playing. I'm
all business in the arcade, and people who waste their time talking are usually
the people who walk away from the machine.
And as far as I can tell, not everyone here just blindly follows what Seth says.
Get that impression out of your head, especially since most people don't have a
whole lot of great things to say about him lately.
quote:
Just in case you're wondering, NOTHING happened between Seth & me in the past.
Why, I don't even like Crapcom fighters in the 1st place so I only started
posting here because of some flamewar I was having with one of yer fellow
posters here. It's only that I don't like "Leaders of the Cult" types, that's
all
Tsk, tsk. Can't even keep flamewars under control. Sad.
Honestly, though, if you hate Capcom fighters so much, then just go away. Go
somewhere else where you can tout the KOF series as the greatest fighting game
of all time. And no, I have nothing against KOF, I love those games.
quote:
You could kill my Mature/Billy team with Kyo? I DOUBT IT, but you can talk as
much as you please (since it costs you no money anyways). Anyhow, more often
than not only retarded cheapos who don't have any skill would use O. Rugal in
'99 DM, that's right. O. Rugal shouldn't never have been made playable in the
1st place. Or do you think you'd beat *MY* O. Rugal?? Think again, you phase 2
scrub
Look who's talking shit now. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you talk just as much
as I do, and *like me*, you have no way to back up your "skills", so why don't
you just STFU? Like I said, you make no example by beating retarded cheapos
w/underdog characters. Try asking someone of equal skill to play you w/Omega
Rugal, and see how well you do. Then if you win, you can come back and boast all
you want. But until then, I'm not impressed by your big talk of "phases" and all
of that stupid shit. Find another way to boost your ego, shithead. Most of what
you are saying just sounds like whining over a boss character. Go play in the
arcade if you don't like fighting Omega Rugal scrubs.
quote:
Obviously you don't know shit about KOF. Otherwise you'd know that O. Rugal
has a HUGE advantadge against Billy Kane (his fireballs & anti-air would hurt
Billy whenever they touch his POLE). Plus his moves are much more
over-prioritized than Billy's. So, my point is, beating O. Rugal players with
Billy or Mature DOES take skill, the other way around doesn't. And your point
is...??
You obviously don't know how to read. I said beating a skill-less O.Rugal scrub
with Billy Kane is not impressive. Yes, O.Rugal has insane priority, and has a
huge basic advantage over Billy. But you can only apply such things on the basis
that the players behind the characters are of EQUAL SKILL. Beating a scrub
simply means that the player has no skill. It says nothing about the character
used.
My point is, you make NO POINT by saying you beat O.Rugal scrubs with underdogs.
Go play an EQUALLY SKILLED person who uses Omega Rugal in the same way, and then
come back and say you beat him. Then I might be willing to take you seriously.
Until then, all of your accusations of "scrub" directed towards me will simply
be acknowledged as the pointless name-calling that it is.
quote:
I think I've already pointed that, you rocket scientist. And I think that
believing in the existance of cheapness is actually a good thing instead of a
bad one, since there exist a thing called ANTICIPATION that will make you
eventually figure out what your opponents' traits more likely would be.
Believing in cheapness helps ya to *classify* what kinda opponent you're
facing at the moment and what you should expect from him, and this is a good
thing indeed. Unless you self-righteous scrub think otherwise, of course
Basically, all I've seen you do is yell about how great KOF is and how you are
the master of KOF 98' because you can beat O.Rugal. Big whoop. So you think you
can read what type of opponent you are about to face because he uses "cheap"
tactics. This says nothing at all about the existence of cheapness. You simply
know about a type of tactic and you can override it. Not to mention most people
you face who use this tactic are not all that good in the first place. Take
person with equal skill and place in place of said inexperienced person, and
"cheap tactics" become "game-winning tactics".
Oh God, you are just so stupid. You speak as if you HAVE to believe in
"cheapness" in order to be any good at all. In other words, if I don't believe
in cheap tactics, I can't be any good because I can't ANTICIPATE what my
opponent will be like, even though I've been watching his matches against other
players and I've already figured out a semi-strategy I can use to start off, and
see how the fight flows from there. You must not play against many good players
if you can "read" them so well. I'd like to see you anticipate how a person in
my arcade plays at KOF, and then watch as you get completely suprised by how
quickly they can adapt to different strategies and how they aren't as
predictable as you thought they were.
Come back when you have something relevant to say, instead of blowing your own
horn.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 07:42 PM:
"And as far as I can tell, not everyone here just blindly follows what Seth
says. Get that impression out of your head, especially since most people don't
have a whole lot of great things to say about him lately."
Most people quote him and praise him A LOT. And, to be sincere, after reading
that crap he wrote abt balance in games, I can't believe how anyone can follow
him. Many posters licked his ass (as well as Valle's one) when they said one of
hose magical "you are a scrub" phrase that automatically made him right and the
other guy wrong.
Why am I bothering with a fight is not mine? Gee, I'm bored.
"Not to mention most people you face who use this tactic are not all that good
in the first place"
If you need to use an overpowered boss to have a chnce of winning (whom btw,
have easy to do specials) then you have a pityfull skill.
"if I don't believe in cheap tactics, I can't be any good"
If you use only one pattern that worked so far, then you're obviously loosing
the chance to learn something new. This will make your game to be based on that
single pattern (or two patterns top). Now when your pattern is discovered and
solved, you'll have nothing to fight with. So, you think a seemingly working
small pattern is all you need? Fine, but don't cry when you get your ass handed.
Posted by Latinofighter on 01:15:2001 07:42 PM:
It seems that "cheap" only exist when you win. you won't hear how cheap someone
is if they lose. Another thing is the same moves/tactics one person does,
anybody can do. example traps in mvc2 let's say joe schmoe does a trap with the
same characters i'm using...y can't i do the same? there is nothing players can
do that makes the game change especially for them. all you can do is do the
motion for the moves, the game decides if it connects or not. glitches are
totally different. when something happens that was never meant to happen...say a
haduken does 100 damage points as opposed to it's usual 15, there is something
wrong with that...but that's usually the games's fault. however if you know how
do a glitch and use it, then that's different too. people will always bitch
about cheap. people hate turtles cause waiting for the right time to strike is
cheap...um...wtf? i wanna know how blocking can be considered cheap. Please
explain how defending yourself is cheap? I'll never understand it.
Really it's all about who wants to stay on the game longer, who wants it more,
and what your willing to do to win.
I hope you bring your "A" game, cause I'm bringing the A team. And I pity the
fool that underestimates me.
[This message has been edited by Latinofighter (edited 01-15-2001).]
Posted by Nathan Summers on 01:15:2001 09:33 PM:
Isn't it weird how the top handfull of people at tournaments don't complain
about cheap. And how the people who have absolutely no chance at being top
handfull at a regional tournament believe in the term cheap as if its their
religion?
I wonder why?
I have a challenge for all of you people who believe in the word cheap. Show me
someone who has the skill to give the top 10 players in golf land some serious
competition and also believes in the word cheap.
I guaranee you won't find one. You know why? Because they don't blame the game's
inherent design when they lose. They blame themselves. That's precisely why they
are so DAMN good at the game. They blamed their mistakes, and improved. If they
blamed the game, or their opponent's cheap style, they would never improve.
IMPORTANT: Some people joke around with the word cheap, but don't really believe
in it. There's a difference between someone who uses it for humor, and a true
disciple of cheap, more commonly known as a scrub.
Posted by ghgh on 01:15:2001 09:39 PM:
It's amazing how many different opinions are out there about "cheap" -
especially when there's only one fact.
I didn't follow the entire Domination101 thread about cheap, but I think it
basically said that nothing is cheap. If that was the case, I have to disagree.
Keep reading.
For all of you who have an 'anything goes' attitude on the games, ask tournament
organizers why they do not allow Akuma to be played in Super Turbo tournaments.
In fact, I'm asking it right now. Why isn't Akuma allowed to be played in
tournament play in ST?? Do you want the long answer or the short answer? (By the
way, the short answer is - you guessed it - 'cause he's CHEAP). For those of you
who don't know much about this, Akuma in ST has a double-air fireball, almost
twice as fast as other characters (literally), and has virtually no dizzy -
among other things! He is not a glitch. Programmers put him in the game on
purpose.
"Ok, ok- but, if your opponent chooses Akuma, you can choose Akuma too! No
advantage, right?" Right! No advantage- and let's go ahead and throw diversity
right outta the window. Now, would that be any fun?
Want another example? How about the different "isms" in SFA3? In a tournament,
why can't I use the "ism" of my choice? It's in the game, right? Well... (see
above)
Let me just say that at the local arcades, I win a lot more games than I lose. I
personally do NOT call anyone cheap. But, I know when I'm being "cheap". For
instance, rolling around the screen with Blanka while playing a poor jabronee
who barely knows how to throw a fireball. This guy thinks I'm being cheap! As
far as he knows, all I can do is the rolling attack - and as we all know,
there's NO WAY to win against Blanka's rolling attack! He's thinking, "if you
stop that stupid rolling thing, I'd be on you in a heartbeat and 'KO' you!"
On the otherhand, I think I'm just being efficient. Well, instead of being
"efficient", how about I change it up for the poor fella? What's it going to
hurt me to throw a couple of different looks at him? Maybe if I'm feeling good,
I'll make it a "close" match! Most of you "efficient" people probably do end up
the last one of the machine - and the ONLY one on the machine too! That's
probably because others find it repetitious, boring, and useless to play against
you. They're not learning anything and it's not fun for them. Ultimately, it's
not fun for you.
As I've mentioned before, many players have called me "cheap" in my day. You
guys wanna know how to really impress them and ultimately get respect? Take the
Blanka rolling attack situation for example. Your opponent's thinking, "if you
stop that stupid rolling thing, I'd be on you in a heartbeat and 'KO' you!".
Tell them (respectfully) that you will not rolling-attack them anymore- BUT,
that you promise to continue winning. In fact, ask them if they want to wager
(maybe a couple of tokens) that you will beat them without being "cheap". And go
through with it - beat them several times without using whatever they deem as
"cheap"- all the while being respectful. The end result will be good. Never
know, you may end up with somewhat of a disciple!
On the otherhand, if you cannot beat them without your "cheap" pattern or
whatever, then they were probably right! You're a cheap player - who cannot win
by any other means. Oh well- atleast you win.
The bottom line is this - if it smells like "cheap" and it looks like "cheap"...
well, you know. Like I initially said, it's all relative to the people you play
and your area. You good players out there, change it up for the new dudes- when
you play someone on your own level, be as "cheap" as you want. Is that so hard?
The thing is that there IS something called "cheap". Sometimes it's gameplay,
sometimes it's character, sometimes it's a glitch or infinite, and sometimes
it's just because people think so. It exists.
Any questions? ... Good.
Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:15:2001 09:44 PM:
who cares about cheapness. i know i dont and i know a lot of other people dont
either. plus, most of us can get around this so called "cheapness". its called
playing not complaining.
My name is Flare and this is my crew.
We kick ass and you know we do.
Posted by Jinmaster on 01:15:2001 09:59 PM:
O. Ryoga and Immature,
I thought we covered this already. I warned you that people here do not use the
word "cheapness" the way you guys do.
The people here view your phase 2 cheapness as the realm of scrubdom. You just
call it being cheap.
When you deal with people here, they assume certain things:
1) Anything that is really cheap should be banned from tournaments. That means
it has to be quantifiable and not subjective in any way in order to be banned.
2) The word cheap is usually used by peopple who can't beat certain tactics as a
label for people who win. It is rarely used to describe someone who loses all
the time. Remember the confusion we had about how a loser could be cheap?
I encourage everyone to look back a few pages and find the "DUMB SNK LEMMINGS"
thread. Pages 8-10 contain where we finally reached an understanding. The people
you are arguing with are not talking about the same thing as you guys.
-Micah
[This message has been edited by Jinmaster (edited 01-15-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:15:2001 10:21 PM:
Oh my!!!
Wyldfyre: If you don't care, why do you post? No one here said there are not
ways around it. If you don't get that, then you don't worth the time.
Jin: ghgh seems to be talking abt cheapness, right?
In fact I see most people here in phase 2 with some exceptions (I can't talk for
ImMature).
1) Only glitches, infinites and bosses (not bosses like Bison in SF2 nor any
ratio 3 or 4 in CvsS) should be banned from tournaments.
2) I agree, it seems that in your area more losers complain abt cheapness than
winners. Here, it's exactly the opposite (not that they say it in their faces,
but if you listen to the comments after the game you'll see they do).
Posted by WYLDFYRE on 01:15:2001 11:02 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Oh my!!!
Wyldfyre: If you don't care, why do you post? No one here said there are not
ways around it. If you don't get that, then you don't worth the time.
Jin: ghgh seems to be talking abt cheapness, right?
In fact I see most people here in phase 2 with some exceptions (I can't talk
for ImMature).
1) Only glitches, infinites and bosses (not bosses like Bison in SF2 nor any
ratio 3 or 4 in CvsS) should be banned from tournaments.
2) I agree, it seems that in your area more losers complain abt cheapness than
winners. Here, it's exactly the opposite (not that they say it in their faces,
but if you listen to the comments after the game you'll see they do).
shut the fuck up! i totally agree with you. in fact i said the exact same shit.
but do you know how many times this topic has popped up? millions. im tired of
this shit. so if im not worth the time then why did you reply to me.
My name is Flare and this is my crew.
We kick ass and you know we do.
Posted by Jinmaster on 01:15:2001 11:21 PM:
O.Ryoga,
Ghgh is complaining about losing. I don't think he is talking about cheapness in
your terms. He does hint toward "that which is repetitive". The difference
between people who have the difintion of cheap as this vs people who think of it
the way I do, is that being repetitive in and of itself is not what constitutes
being cheap in Immature/your view. You guys are talking about repetitive
patterns that aveaerge players rely on in order to win, think they are good, and
don't understand the game in depth.
Cheapness in this case I beleive is whining about losing to strategies they
can't beat. They call the game shitty, and they offend the winners by saying
that they used no skill. As we all know, it takes no skill to lose. Saying that
"had I played cheap like you, I'd win too" is false and degrading. I hope you
see the cultural differnce between the definitions of chapenss in the dumb snk
lemmings thread pages 8-9-10.
-Micah
Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:15:2001 11:50 PM:
*SIGH*
What a nice little shit storm that I have stumbled into. Hmmmmmmm, cheap vs.
there is no such thing....... I wonder. Let's see, throwing too much is
cheap...... turtling is cheap....... constant patterns is cheap...... alot of
stuff in this thread is considered to be cheap. So, let me get this straight,
that is cheap, but showing off is'nt. Let's just say that i'm playing against
somebody, and he pulls off this amazing, hard, never in a million years combo,
and it kills me right off the bat. It causes everybody in the arcade on a
Saturday night to go quiet. It is the best looking thing I have ever seen on
this game, and the ability of skill to do it is literally "amazing", not to
mention the fact that my opponent got it off in the middle of actual combat, not
in practice mode. Does this make it cheap? Now, the skill to do it is
phenomenal, but it KILLED me. I have no chance of a comeback, why, cause i'm
dead. So I ask again, is this cheap? Personally, i'd rather be killed buy the
guy who does nothing but backwards triangle jumps into the corner with a
uppercut/fireball character. The person who does nothing but sweeps two-in-oned
into fireballs. Or the guy, who throws you every chance he get's. So when I
lose, I know that it is because of me, not some flashy combo that can only be
done by two people (the guy who did it and GOD himself). Don't get me wrong, i'm
not putting down showing off, I love to do it also. But what people got to
realize, is that there is no code of honor, it's just a game. The word honor
should'nt even be applied to a game, cause there is none. There are times that a
person can show off, but if it comes down to me killing the guy with a throw, or
a hard to do super combo, i'd pick the throw. When I play somebody, I want a
skilled player, not a combo/show off exhebitionist. All the combos and flashy
manuevers mean SHIT when a person loses. IMO, there is no such thing as cheap
(except for glitches, those do not apply to what I just said). But that is just
my opinion. Cheapness is pretty much like beauty, it's all in the eye of the
beholder.
http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif
BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 03:44 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
If you use only one pattern that worked so far, then you're obviously loosing
the chance to learn something new. This will make your game to be based on
that single pattern (or two patterns top). Now when your pattern is discovered
and solved, you'll have nothing to fight with. So, you think a seemingly
working small pattern is all you need? Fine, but don't cry when you get your
ass handed.
I don't remember saying at any point that you should rely on one pattern to win.
Go back and read my posts. NEVER EVER DID I SAY THAT YOU SHOULD PICK ONE PATTERN
AND STICK TO IT. Don't spew shit that you don't know just because you want to
support your little friend ImMature.
If your game revolves around picking one single strategy and using it until it
fails you, then you obviously don't know how to play. I use a different strat
depending on the circumstances (Cable/Cyclops for bitches who like to try
rushdowns, Hayato for people who jump all over the place w/attacks trying to
keep me down, etc.). I try to adapt to the circumstances of the match. In no way
do I just start bitching when I lose and call the other player "cheap".
Basically, what you just said has nothing to do with what you quoted me on. I
was asking ImMature if he really thought that you had to believe in "cheap
tactics" in order to gauge what your opponent will do in a match (which is
apparently what he believes, the fuckwit). You went off into an entirely
different idea that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Moron. Say
something relevant, why don't you?
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 03:54 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Please shut up. You really don't know me as a person, so don't pretend that
you can make such a judgement on my character. Yes, I did get upset because of
what you said, but that really says nothing about my attitude when I'm
playing.
Well it's true that I don't know you in Real Life (what a pity, uh?) but still,
although I may be wrong, by all the crap I've read from you I can tell you this
much: you (using O. Rugal) would probably get your ass kicked badly by ANYONE
here (using Arthur from Ghost 'n' Goblins, Mugen anyone?). Wanna know why? Cause
it'd only take from him to smirk at you at the beginning of the match to make
you start losing all your cool. I can tell you this, it's DEFINITELY not very
hard to play mind games with you, you're even unable to realize when you're
being played with
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Tsk, tsk. Can't even keep flamewars under control. Sad.
Sad? Why, flamewars are a LOT of fun. BTW, you should meet the guy I was flaming
back then, at least I can tell you he's smart enough not to get HYSTERICAL at
someone else on the Internet. Pretty much unlike yourself buddy, someone go
there and bitch-slap ya to make you calm down at once
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Look who's talking shit now. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you talk just as
much as I do, and *like me*, you have no way to back up your "skills", so why
don't you just STFU? Like I said, you make no example by beating retarded
cheapos w/underdog characters. Try asking someone of equal skill to play you
w/Omega Rugal, and see how well you do. Then if you win, you can come back and
boast all you want. But until then, I'm not impressed by your big talk of
"phases" and all of that stupid shit. Find another way to boost your ego,
shithead. Most of what you are saying just sounds like whining over a boss
character. Go play in the arcade if you don't like fighting Omega Rugal
scrubs.
[/B][/QUOTE]
For your information, one of the arcades here does have KOF'99 DM, haven't you
ever seen those machines? They're like DCs stuffed inside normal arcade
cabinets, so I play against O. Rugal types in said arcade (since I don't even
own a DC). As soon as I play a O. Rugal type with an equal amount of skill I'll
let you know; it's not my fault that this char's sooo scrub-friendly, now it is?
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
My point is, you make NO POINT by saying you beat O.Rugal scrubs with
underdogs. Go play an EQUALLY SKILLED person who uses Omega Rugal in the same
way, and then come back and say you beat him. Then I might be willing to take
you seriously. Until then, all of your accusations of "scrub" directed towards
me will simply be acknowledged as the pointless name-calling that it is.
Well, my retarded friend, just don't tell me you didn't see this coming. Forget
about me for a moment and go read the US vs Japan results at SF3 3rd Strike. Did
that Japanese guy (forgot his name) used Q? Yes. Is Q an underdog? Yes. Did he
won? Yes. Were his opponents advanced players as well? Yes again. Ok now go and
re-read what I said about using underdogs, maybe (and I mean MAYBE) you'll get
it this time
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Oh God, you are just so stupid. You speak as if you HAVE to believe in
"cheapness" in order to be any good at all. In other words, if I don't believe
in cheap tactics, I can't be any good because I can't ANTICIPATE what my
opponent will be like, even though I've been watching his matches against
other players and I've already figured out a semi-strategy I can use to start
off, and see how the fight flows from there. You must not play against many
good players if you can "read" them so well. I'd like to see you anticipate
how a person in my arcade plays at KOF, and then watch as you get completely
suprised by how quickly they can adapt to different strategies and how they
aren't as predictable as you thought they were.
Oh my fault then. I should have imagined that all that stuff was waaaay to
complex for you to understand. What I was trying to say is that, although I
don't know how your mind works (IF it works at all, that's it), normal human
beings need to classify past experiences in order to be able to anticipate what
MOST LIKELY would happen in each case (cause we're not talking about clarvoyants
here, y'know, it's a matter of probability). 'Cheap' (or you may call it as you
please instead) is JUST ANOTHER CATEGORY, not the only one. Look, I think all
this will be just impossible for you to understand anyways so I won't bother,
but try to remember: if your memory is unable to classify things into categories
(whichever they are) then you'll be unable to anticipate ANYTHING. I never said
you hafta believe in cheapness to anticipate what your opponent will do, but it
helps (at least to me)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Come back when you have something relevant to say, instead of blowing your own
horn.
Ok Breasts of Fire, and almost the same here, come back when you've taken your
medication
Posted by Bezerka on 01:16:2001 03:55 AM:
Its cheap when u get to play street fighter for under 10 cents a game. But
seriouly there is no cheap playing, just really, really good statergy.
Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 04:00 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
I was asking ImMature if he really thought that you had to believe in "cheap
tactics" in order to gauge what your opponent will do in a match (which is
apparently what he believes, the fuckwit).
NooOooOoo you shithead, you got it wrong since it was waaaay too complex for
someone like you to understand in a millon years. Read my post above, will ya?
Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 04:18 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jinmaster:
Cheapness in this case I beleive is whining about losing to strategies they
can't beat. They call the game shitty, and they offend the winners by saying
that they used no skill. As we all know, it takes no skill to lose. Saying
that "had I played cheap like you, I'd win too" is false and degrading. I hope
you see the cultural differnce between the definitions of chapenss in the dumb
snk lemmings thread pages 8-9-10.
Thank you man, I see you've made the effort to overcome the cultural difference
and to figure out what we were talking about. You have earned my respect for
that and I humbly apologize for having called you close-minded in the past.
People like you make this forum worth visiting, despite of the mindless 14 years
old flamers reigning supreme here most of the time, I can tell you that...
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 04:35 AM:
Wow, you came back. For a moment I thought Ryoga was gonna have to fight your
battles from now on. Good for you.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Well it's true that I don't know you in Real Life (what a pity, uh?) but
still, although I may be wrong, by all the crap I've read from you I can tell
you this much: you (using O. Rugal) would probably get your ass kicked badly
by ANYONE here (using Arthur from Ghost 'n' Goblins, Mugen anyone?). Wanna
know why? Cause it'd only take from him to smirk at you at the beginning of
the match to make you start losing all your cool. I can tell you this, it's
DEFINITELY not very hard to play mind games with you, you're even unable to
realize when you're being played with
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE, FUNNIEST PIECE OF SHIT
THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN YOU POST!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You REALLY think you've been playing mind games with me? You obviously haven't
seen me post before this forum. Name-calling and picking on people in the forums
is my favorite pasttime. You really thought you had me JUST because I called you
an arrogant asshole and everything else? You are just SO funny! I talk more shit
and play more mind games in the arcade w/people than anyone else I know
personally! SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU COCK-SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!
quote:
Sad? Why, flamewars are a LOT of fun. BTW, you should meet the guy I was
flaming back then, at least I can tell you he's smart enough not to get
HYSTERICAL at someone else on the Internet. Pretty much unlike yourself buddy,
someone go there and bitch-slap ya to make you calm down at once
You are really unperceptive, aren't you? You haven't seen me get hysterical yet,
biatch. Go to General Discussion and check out the thread of War, Flames, and
Low Blows. Then you'll see some insanity.
In case you didn't know, I'm still laughing my ass off at your complete
stupidity. Just wanted to remind you.
quote:
For your information, one of the arcades here does have KOF'99 DM, haven't you
ever seen those machines? They're like DCs stuffed inside normal arcade
cabinets, so I play against O. Rugal types in said arcade (since I don't even
own a DC). As soon as I play a O. Rugal type with an equal amount of skill
I'll let you know; it's not my fault that this char's sooo scrub-friendly, now
it is?
That's about the only interesting thing you've said this whole time. Lemme take
a time out from laughing *gasp, gasp*. A DC inside of an arcade cabinet?
Interesting.
Why wait? Just go grab one of your friends who you think is actually any good,
and ask him to play O.Rugal against you seriously...and see who wins.
quote:
Well, my retarded friend, just don't tell me you didn't see this coming.
Forget about me for a moment and go read the US vs Japan results at SF3 3rd
Strike. Did that Japanese guy (forgot his name) used Q? Yes. Is Q an underdog?
Yes. Did he won? Yes. Were his opponents advanced players as well? Yes again.
Ok now go and re-read what I said about using underdogs, maybe (and I mean
MAYBE) you'll get it this time
Please stop for a second so I can breathe. So ONE GUY from Japan wins a SF3
tournament with Q (I'm not suprised, I think Q is pretty damn good), and somehow
this makes a statement about YOU using underdog characters in KOF (a completely
different game). And believe me, I understand what you meant (fighting a
character you aren't used to playing against can be tough, since you don't know
what might be coming). However, when playing against a person of equal skill,
such advantages are usually short-lived, as a good player will observe how you
play and figure you out eventually. You obviously don't realize this, as you are
too busy dominating scrubs (or are you just full of shit? Who knows). I'd say
the guy in Japan was either extremely lucky, or the other players were just too
dumbfounded to know what to do.
quote:
Oh my fault then. I should have imagined that all that stuff was waaaay to
complex for you to understand. What I was trying to say is that, although I
don't know how your mind works (IF it works at all, that's it), normal human
beings need to classify past experiences in order to be able to anticipate
what MOST LIKELY would happen in each case (cause we're not talking about
clarvoyants here, y'know, it's a matter of probability). 'Cheap' (or you may
call it as you please instead) is JUST ANOTHER CATEGORY, not the only one.
Look, I think all this will be just impossible for you to understand anyways
so I won't bother, but try to remember: if your memory is unable to classify
things into categories (whichever they are) then you'll be unable to
anticipate ANYTHING. I never said you hafta believe in cheapness to anticipate
what your opponent will do, but it helps (at least to me)
Hey, whatever works for you. If it helps to use a word with such a strong stigma
attached to it to help you remember, well, more power to ya. Just be clearer
next time on what you fucking mean. Oh, and BTW, clarification doesn't require
meaningless insulting of intelligence just because you speak in such a cryptic
dialect. Most people in here would agree that you weren't really being all that
clear, and the concept itself is not complicated at all (just like you).
Clarification by itself works just fine. I don't have a problem with remembering
what types of tactics I have encountered in the past, I just find it more
efficient to give them names that actually refer to what they are like, since
"cheap" can be such a vague classification. Wow, we really don't differ that
much at all in how we think, eh shit-for-brains?
quote:
Ok Breasts of Fire, and almost the same here, come back when you've taken your
medication
And thus, the immature one rides off into the sunset, unaware that he has just
made a complete ass of himself and belittled his intelligence by throwing much
more shit rather than just saying what he meant to say. And while his eyes are
focused on peering directly into the sun, he notices not the great BEAST OF FIRE
that has snuck up behind him. Blissfully unaware, he completely ignores the
handful of intestines sitting in his lap that were just excavated from his
worthless gut by the Beast's flaming sword.
quote:
NooOooOoo you shithead, you got it wrong since it was waaaay too complex for
someone like you to understand in a millon years. Read my post above, will ya?
Hey! I thought I dealt with you already back there!!
*cuts immature's head off and barbecues him and feeds him to pack of coyotes*
The End.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Raule on 01:16:2001 04:42 AM:
Cheapness, there is none, abusive tactics, yes there is some. But nothing
guarntees a win except 2 things. Infinites, and game breaking glitches.
Infinites take skill, and can be annoying but are not cheap. Game breaking
glitches are annoying, don't take much skill, but are a little tiny cheap, but
really aren't, but its abusive, TO THE EXTREME!!!!! But its capcoms fault for
not taking out bugs.
http://www.geocities.com/dragonkahn/ridin_the_nightrain.gif
Akuma:ME SUIT! SHUN GOKU SATSU!
Evil Ryu: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Raging Demon!
Posted by Shishio-sama on 01:16:2001 05:02 AM:
Allow me to tell you what is cheap.Honestly I feel that infinites are
demeaning.Once you are hit by the first hit all the person has to do is follow
some routine of button pressing and like magic you are dead,no chance of
escape.That is unfair,unlike every other technique there is a chance of escape
or there is only so long a player may repeat the combination,example Alpha 3
v-ism and even that can be break the rules.This is also cheap when I go to play
someone on the machine,the smell like they have not left the arcade to shower
since Street Fighter one.That is cheap!
All this other crap in trivial,sure AHVB is nasty,SO do your best to avoid it or
play Cable and counter it.Shin Akuma is not an issue because he is not in any
arcade version,except SS2T and he is banned from tourney play.Also chip damage
sucks but can be avoided or countered.From what I have seen listed all these
gripes extend from MvC2.Now if you see all these tactics that make the game not
fun to play,win or lose,then why play?Worse yet what praise the game?The true
answer is,the game in question,because it allows these tactics to be abused,is a
very poor game.
"Strength and Honor"
Maximus
Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 05:11 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Wow, you came back. For a moment I thought Ryoga was gonna have to fight your
battles from now on. Good for you.
And what did make you think so? That's what YOU'd do perhaps?
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE, FUNNIEST PIECE OF SHIT
THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN YOU POST!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You REALLY think you've been playing mind games with me? You obviously haven't
seen me post before this forum. Name-calling and picking on people in the
forums is my favorite pasttime. You really thought you had me JUST because I
called you an arrogant asshole and everything else? You are just SO funny! I
talk more shit and play more mind games in the arcade w/people than anyone
else I know personally! SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU COCK-SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!
Ok if you say so. BTW you STILL sound hysterical. And really upset, just like
you got at my 1st post, SUCKA
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
A DC inside of an arcade cabinet? Interesting.
Never seen one of those?!? Really? Where have you been...institutionalized??
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Please stop for a second so I can breathe. So ONE GUY from Japan wins a SF3
tournament with Q (I'm not suprised, I think Q is pretty damn good), and
somehow this makes a statement about YOU using underdog characters in KOF (a
completely different game). And believe me, I understand what you meant
(fighting a character you aren't used to playing against can be tough, since
you don't know what might be coming). However, when playing against a person
of equal skill, such advantages are usually short-lived, as a good
player will observe how you play and figure you out eventually. You obviously
don't realize this, as you are too busy dominating scrubs (or are you just
full of shit? Who knows). I'd say the guy in Japan was either
extremely lucky, or the other players were just too dumbfounded to know what
to do.
Yes, yes OF COURSE. Either the Jap was the luckiest guy ever (he won 5/5 if I
remember correctly) or his opponents were just dumb. I wonder why you ain't in
the US team then, you'll probably do much, MUCH better, my dear Breasts of Fire
(nice nick BTW)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Wow, we really don't differ that much at all in how we think, eh
shit-for-brains?
Great but did you actually got what I said or are you just pretending? I just
wanna make sure, you fuckwit
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
And thus, the immature one rides off into the sunset, (rest of your dirty, wet
fantasies about me skipped because of stupidity)
Hey I like that phrase. Just call me El Zorro cause I'm more ARROGANT than Vega
& Laurence Blood put together. I'm even gonna start a thread titled "ImMature
teaches Agorrance" in the hopes of getting some of you people to EVENTUALLY
become as arrogant as I am right now. Oh boy, I'm laughing my head off since
yesterday every time I recall your reaction then...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
The End.
The End? Sheah right, sure. Did I mention that the flamewar that brought me here
lasted a month? It's NOT over yet, I'm having sooo much fun
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 07:13 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
The End? Sheah right, sure. Did I mention that the flamewar that brought me
here lasted a month? It's NOT over yet, I'm having sooo much fun
No my friend. It really is The End. It is obvious that you have nothing
intelligent left to say, and I'm not gonna waste my time having a flamewar with
you, considering that it has nothing to do with the topic discussed in past
posts.
List of stupidities in your most recent response:
Saying that I still sound "upset". Say anything you want, but I'm laughing on
this end and I know it. What your opinion is on that subject doesn't concern me
at all.
BTW, did you get rid of all the big smiles in that section of my post because
you thought it would debunk your statement that I was still upset? Or do they
just annoy you? Just checking.
Also, I never said the opponents in the tournament were "dumb", per se. I meant
that they may have been caught off-guard by the "underdog character" Q (since
you are such a supporter of underdogs). It happens. And like I said, that has
nothing to do with you and KOF. I'm sure if you go to a Japanese KOF tourney and
enter w/your Mature/Billy team, your name probably won't be in the top tier.
Also, at what point did I say I was better? Never. You need to go back and read
again, wiseguy.
BTW, your play of words on my screen name is so unoriginal it's not even funny
(wait, it is funny, cuz I'm laughing my ass off at how stupid you are). Many
have done it before you have, and they did it better. Although I suspect you may
have done that because you can't read, so just in case, the name's BEAST OF
FIRE. Dumbass.
In case you didn't notice, I got what you said. In fact, I knew that long before
there was a KOF for you to play, numbnuts. Basically, you aren't saying anything
all that new or revolutionary, so why don't you just put a cork in it, shithead.
OK, maybe I did carry it on a little longer. This time it truly is The End. If
for any other reason, it's The End because I disemboweled you and cut your head
off in my previous post. Are you a ghost or something? Maybe I should get an
exorcist.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by ImMature on 01:16:2001 12:49 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
No my friend. It really is The End. It is obvious that you have nothing
intelligent left to say, and I'm not gonna waste my time having a flamewar
with you, considering that it has nothing to do with the topic discussed in
past posts.
Oh well although neither you or me probably have nothing intelligent left to
say, think about it: that fact HASN'T STOPED NONE OF US BEFORE. So then again,
why The End? I thought you said you were having as much fun as myself...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Saying that I still sound "upset". Say anything you want, but I'm laughing on
this end and I know it. What your opinion is on that subject doesn't concern
me at all.
Say, you apparently started laughing since I (did have to) told ya I was playing
with you all this time. Your other replies to me don't give anyone the
impression you were having such a good time at all. Oh well, if you don't wanna
admit when you're outsmarted I can understand it (cause it sure happens to you
on a regular basis anyways)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
BTW, did you get rid of all the big smiles in that section of my post because
you thought it would debunk your statement that I was still upset? Or do they
just annoy you? Just checking.
Nope I just had to copy & paste that part of yer post. The smiles apparently
didn't make it to the Windows clipboard (is this supposed to be relevant, my
retarded friend?)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Also, I never said the opponents in the tournament were "dumb", per se. I
meant that they may have been caught off-guard by the "underdog character" Q
(since you are such a supporter of underdogs). It happens. And like I said,
that has nothing to do with you and KOF. I'm sure if you go to a Japanese KOF
tourney and enter w/your Mature/Billy team, your name probably won't be in the
top tier. Also, at what point did I say I was better? Never. You need to go
back and read again, wiseguy.
Me and KOF? I thought we were talking about the advantadges of using underdogs
instead of top-tiers, me beating O. Rugal players with Billy was only an example
of that (wow I'd say that deep down you sound IMPRESSED or something. You keep
bringing it up)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
BTW, your play of words on my screen name is so unoriginal it's not even funny
(wait, it is funny, cuz I'm laughing my ass off at how stupid you are). Many
have done it before you have, and they did it better. Although I suspect you
may have done that because you can't read, so just in case, the name's BEAST
OF FIRE. Dumbass.
Ok excuse my lack of originality then. After all, we're only in the 1st day of
our future flamewar and I tend to get much more wittier after the 1st week.
You'll see. Anyways Breasts of Fire seems a great aleas for you, being a
sluttish Drag Queen and all that. It sure attracts lotsa joes to your butt
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
OK, maybe I did carry it on a little longer. This time it truly is The End. If
for any other reason, it's The End because I disemboweled you and cut your
head off in my previous post. Are you a ghost or something? Maybe I should get
an exorcist.
No I just survived that easily. Just like the Trickster god Coyote, the one your
little mythological reference was based on. According to the Native Americans
eventually he'll outlive the rest of the things on Earth. Just like me, little
fatherfucker
Posted by Trent425 on 01:16:2001 03:38 PM:
When i play someone in MvC2, i'm a cheap ass. If you move, i'll AHVB the crap
out of you. I'll trap you, i'll throw you, and you know what? im a cheap ass. i
admit it. And thats the difference, i admit it. All you people saying "cheapness
doesnt exist" are using it as an excuse to justify your gameplay, you know
you're cheap... just say it. I personally dont care what the hell you do against
me... its part of the game, i'll deal with it. If you're doing some cheap tactic
i've never seen before and cant get around, hey... all the better, i love the
challenge. It'll just make me better. The only fact is... cheapness is part of
the game, if you cant deal with it, dont play.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:46 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ASSMASTERX:
Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw.
The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS.
What the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL
LIKE FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY.
PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS!
I guess you dug her out of her grave to do all this huh? You are a sick man! Get
a clue!
Haters hate on!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:50 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by YOUHEARDME:
Well, I learned that talking to Kelomaniac is like talking to...well his mom,
they are both dumb bitches. The fact is that things do exist (ie. Winners
calling losers cheap, hey, it happens) but you seem to be disregarding them
and making it seem like your fantasy world where everything happens according
to the way you like.
4 videos only huh? Well there's more videos posted of tourney matches, I
watched them, and see little, if any, tech hitting, and I think I will take
that proof over your stupidity.
Shouldn't you be working anyway besides posting dumbass things...and yes my
mom gets paid while enjoying herself, I mean, she pimps your mom and gets all
the money from her while she makes your dad catch frisbees with his mouth,
LOL.
HA HA HA HA HA ... keep hating dumb bitch! How many tourny's have you been in or
gone to and where?
Hater's keep on hating! By the way My moms and dad are dead so if your mother is
pimping them she must be a sick whore!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:53 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Crusader:
O.Ryoga, that's probably the most retarded post I've ever read. Why the hell
would the winner care about what the loser thinks? He won, so he's happy. He's
not going to feel bad because he played "dishonorable" and call the loser a
scrub to make himself feel better.
Let me put it this way. If you were put into a tournament against Alex Valle,
do you think Valle is going to give shit if you think throwing is cheap? He'll
throw your ass all day if it'll help him win. So either find a way to get
around throwing or keep away or whatever the hell you call cheap these days,
or don't play the game.
No No No... you got it all wrong Crusaider! Alex is going to turn around and
call the loser cheap! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA ROTLMAO! Fucking haters
keep on hating! Hate on Brotha Hate on!
P. S. the hating thing wasn't to you Crus!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 10:55 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
And one thing is playing for the fun, and other thing is competition (where
your aim is to win).
Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 11:05 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Oh well although neither you or me probably have nothing intelligent left to
say, think about it: that fact HASN'T STOPED NONE OF US BEFORE. So then again,
why The End? I thought you said you were having as much fun as myself...
I figured out that I could have just as much fun laughing at most of the
stupidity that you post in other topics.....so why waste my energy in this topic
(since it is now quite obviously dead)? If you really wanna flame me and cuss at
me (since you are so obviously starved for attention), you're gonna have to wait
until we get into an argument over another topic, because I simply don't have
the time to waste throwing meaningless insults back and forth. I gotta have
something to really argue over.
quote:
Say, you apparently started laughing since I (did have to) told ya I was
playing with you all this time. Your other replies to me don't give anyone the
impression you were having such a good time at all. Oh well, if you don't
wanna admit when you're outsmarted I can understand it (cause it sure happens
to you on a regular basis anyways)
It's all really a matter of perspective. From your perspective, you were playing
with me (my, my, aren't you so smart), whereas from my perspective, you were
really just wasting your breath. You see, unlike you, I don't believe that it
takes real intelligence to call someone names (which seems to be your favorite
pasttime). So I don't think you can really say you "outsmarted" me when all
you've done is cuss repeatedly and come up with fairly lame insults. BTW, I
doubt you know what other people think of my replies, since no one else has
really commented on them, and furthermore, I've already forgotten about those.
Why so eager to cling to the past? Are you afraid the future won't turn out the
same way? You really don't have anything better to do with your spare time, so
you desperately want to keep throwing poor insults at me? Truly, that is sad
(and I mean it).
quote:
Nope I just had to copy & paste that part of yer post. The smiles apparently
didn't make it to the Windows clipboard (is this supposed to be relevant, my
retarded friend?)
Retarded?....Really, is that the best you can do? I thought you were supposed to
be so smart, and yet your flames are quite weak compared to the ones I've
endured in Dom101. Do you really wish to continue? Fine by me, but it won't
really do you much good.
quote:
Me and KOF? I thought we were talking about the advantadges of using underdogs
instead of top-tiers, me beating O. Rugal players with Billy was only an
example of that (wow I'd say that deep down you sound IMPRESSED or something.
You keep bringing it up)
And several times I have said that your "example" is a very poor one, seeing as
you admit your opponents are poorly skilled. The SF3 example is a much better
one, and seeing as that has nothing to do with you at all, I don't see why you
think it's so important. Believe me, your constant talk of how great you think
you are doesn't impress me in the least (not much really does anymore, aside
from an absolute domination of a hardcore player).
quote:
Ok excuse my lack of originality then. After all, we're only in the 1st day of
our future flamewar and I tend to get much more wittier after the 1st week.
You'll see. Anyways Breasts of Fire seems a great aleas for you, being a
sluttish Drag Queen and all that. It sure attracts lotsa joes to your butt
Ho hum...you want a future flamewar, you're gonna have to do better than that.
I'm quickly losing interest, seeing as you aren't being very intelligent or
insulting here. Don't bother telling me about your odd fantasies and hobbies,
I'm not interested in a gay-ass like you (I have nothing against gays, as long
as they don't proposition me).
quote:
No I just survived that easily. Just like the Trickster god Coyote, the one
your little mythological reference was based on. According to the Native
Americans eventually he'll outlive the rest of the things on Earth. Just like
me, little fatherfucker
You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you? You must be so clever, because
you know all about Native American mythology. Anyway, I fed you to a pack of
coyotes because they were convenient, if there had been a pile of worms I would
have thrown your carcass in them. Get it through your head....you are DEAD,
DEAD, DEAD!
Oh wait....you are still alive. Okay.
*cuts immature into little pieces and throws him into a tank of pirahnas*
There. Now it's THE END. Don't come back, unless you wanna talk about games.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:16:2001 11:12 PM:
"Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!"
How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a lucky
match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than him)
will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of course).
Why? Because it was a shitty match.
"Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!"
Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are
catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning is
a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn
something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board
talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE
to loose.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:16:2001 11:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!"
How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a
lucky match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than
him) will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of
course). Why? Because it was a shitty match.
"Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!"
Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are
catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning
is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn
something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board
talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE
to loose.
Well, I'll have to admit you do have a point here. While winning is it's own
fun, the most important thing (unless you're in a tourney) is that you are
having a good time, win or lose.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 12:31 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"Alex is going to turn around and call the loser cheap!"
How many times should I repeat myself? A real player, not a guy who had a
lucky match (I don't know how Valle plays, but I'm sure there are better than
him) will tell to a friend how cheap the loser was (if that's the case, of
course). Why? Because it was a shitty match.
1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY?
quote:
"Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!"
Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are
catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning
is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn
something new or test my newly acquired techniques. Most people in this board
talk too much abt winning, but unless they only play newbies, some of you HAVE
to loose.
Funny! I lose and alot! As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday! And I
had fun everytime I lost but the fucking point is that I AIM to win every
fucking time I put my money in the machine! And I actually won a few games why
cause I had fun and I strive to win everyfucking time! It's not much fun to lose
everyfucking time and in a few hours have no more money to lose again for fun! I
think if you are not striving to winning everytime I guess you got use to losing
to many times!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 05:40 PM:
"1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY?"
Forget it, it's beyond your comprehension.
"As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday"
If you feel unsecure, and can't keep up with this thread, then don't post.
Man, I wonder why the Americans complain abt people mocking them.
Posted by Sabin on 01:17:2001 07:53 PM:
<---- is a very cheap player
People who whine/bitch/moan about cheapness are scrubs, PERIOD. You don't see
the "top players" whining at all.. If you disagree with me, you are wrong.
IMO, it's ok to say something is "cheap", there are plenty of moves/chars which
can be labeled as cheap - but just find a way around the cheapness, or don't
play at all (or bitch and whine like some people in this thread are doing.)
- Arturo
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 08:51 PM:
Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers.
"If you disagree with me, you are wrong"
Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you.
And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed
assumptions.
Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:17:2001 09:08 PM:
Why hasn't this thread been closed? It led to a lot of name-calling and
jealousy. Anyway, this topic often pops up once in a while. And each time this
topic resurfaces, there is always fighting. If the conversation could be carried
on in a more intelligent manner, that would be one thing. But the way it's
going, things really don't look so good.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 09:57 PM:
"...jealousy..."
Would you mind explaining that? Name Calling is right, but jelaousy??????
Posted by dairy queen guy on 01:17:2001 10:10 PM:
you are right man. if you can beat someone without using your best shit, do it.
but don't totally lock up some beginner cause that stinks man. that guy will
probably feel real bad afterward.
however- he might decide to study what you're doing and study the game and
understand what's up. so why not do it?
it is hard and depends on people personally. but let me tell you man there isn't
Shit that is unfair. there is only crap that is ugly, stupid, and fucking dumb.
and cowardly.
but not cheap. nothing is cheating in any capcom fighting game.
the guy who is fucking up that beginner mercilessly might be being a real ass
hole, but it is His Right. alright? he paid his 50 cents just like anyone else
and in fact he's probably paid a lot more than just one 50 cents man. probably
paid enough to buy a dreamcast and 2 sticks and 100 trips to the arcade so why
not do what he wants to do because it is his right. in fact more his right than
the beginner's right to have a fun match when he's only spent one time 50 cents
and he's against someone who's spent hundreds of dollars. that guys more
entitled to what he wants. even guys who use ugly ass gay fucking no brains
techniques that are as ugly to watch as they are have a right to do what they
want.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 10:16 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"1st of all WTF DID YOU JUST SAY?"
Forget it, it's beyond your comprehension.
"As a matter fact I lost to Valle and Duc Friday"
If you feel unsecure, and can't keep up with this thread, then don't post.
Man, I wonder why the Americans complain abt people mocking them.
1st of all learn how to express your self! YOu make no fucking sence! And if I
feel unsecure? WTF? YOu are dumber than DUMB AND DUMBER!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 10:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers.
"If you disagree with me, you are wrong"
Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you.
And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed
assumptions.
Ok bitch wtf are you saying again? Closer to be a god than you? Get a fucking
clue you moron! And bye the way is about not abt! I seen you fuck up that word
alot you dumb bastard!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:17:2001 10:40 PM:
Hmmm, Kelomaniac, what is all that shit comming out of your mouth? Have you lost
something? Like a clue? Hmmm, how did you Capcomers called someone who crys over
a defeat? Scrub I guess.
Look pal, if you can't keep up with a thread then don't post.
Oh, "abt" is short for "about", I didn't make it, and many people uses it.
Now, who's so piss off to starting talking crap? Who's the dumb? It's not me,
you can bet on it.
Posted by Nek on 01:17:2001 11:19 PM:
Here's a better five letter word SKILL!
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:17:2001 11:27 PM:
Damn ...
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by Nek on 01:17:2001 11:34 PM:
Here's a better five letter word SKILL!
Posted by SithKilla on 01:17:2001 11:48 PM:
Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack. I didn't even read that
whole post but i just though that was funny in a post about video games.
I think things would be alot clearer if we make a distinction between something
being cheap and unbalanced. To me something can be unbalanced but not necesarily
cheap due to the fact that both players have an equal chance of winning. However
the person who has the character that does a 100% damage combo might have the
advantage. But again that does not make him/her cheap it just makes it a shitty
game.
To me something is cheap when your opponent has no chance of winning. Also if
you read about what a Glitch is you will realize that it is a negative tearm
used when there is a problem. A glitch in the game was not put there on purpose.
Thats why its a glitch.
I guess all in all when i look at it its the game itself thats cheap. Having to
deal with 40% chip damage and infinites is disgusting. As Akumachan has stated
Camcom has lost thier work eithic and just doesn't test thier games enough.
Blame the Compony, not the Player.
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:17:2001 11:50 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack. I didn't even read that
whole post but i just though that was funny in a post about video games.
I think things would be alot clearer if we make a distinction between
something being cheap and unbalanced. To me something can be unbalanced but
not necesarily cheap due to the fact that both players have an equal chance of
winning. However the person who has the character that does a 100% damage
combo might have the advantage. But again that does not make him/her cheap it
just makes it a shitty game.
To me something is cheap when your opponent has no chance of winning. Also if
you read about what a Glitch is you will realize that it is a negative tearm
used when there is a problem. A glitch in the game was not put there on
purpose. Thats why its a glitch.
I guess all in all when i look at it its the game itself thats cheap. Having
to deal with 40% chip damage and infinites is disgusting. As Akumachan has
stated Camcom has lost thier work eithic and just doesn't test thier games
enough. Blame the Compony, not the Player.
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of
nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of
anything else.
Excuses.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. Good post.
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/autograph.gif
Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 12:22 AM:
"Closer to god? Lol you people gave me a heart attack."
I hope you got the Sarcasm/Joke of that post.
It was intended to be funny, but I have the cold sensation you though I was
talking seriously and didn't understand the hidden flame.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 01:01 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"Funny I tough you AIM to win every single time!"
Ahhh, that retarded quote again. Hmmm, I play to have fun. Video games are
catogorized as entertainment because people play them for having fun. Winning
is a plus, but I rather play someone with better skills than me, so I learn
something new or test my newly acquired techniques.
You are being way too general here. Yes, in general, video games are meant to be
fun. But fighting games are a subgenre of video games, and fighting games are
supposed to be both fun AND competition. And what's the point of competition? To
win.
If someone's primary interest in a game is nifty graphics, halfnaked chicks,
and/or interesting stories, he go plays a RPG. If someone's primary interest in
a game is to compete against other human oppponents, he go plays a fighting
game. And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything. The point of
competition is to win, pure and simple. You also compete to test your skills,
gain respect from your peers, etc. etc. But the bottom line is, you're trying to
win.
And don't give me crap that "always trying to win" takes all the fun out of it.
A lot of people enjoy playing to win. And when those people win, especially
against people who say they play "just for fun", I notice that while the winners
look satisfied, the losers don't look they're having fun at all. As a matter of
fact, I've observed that a good number of the losers look like they're about to
cry, or something.
Of course, there is an etiquette of sorts when you're playing fighting games.
And people's ideas of etiquette will differ, which is what you and other people
disagree on. I can't say much about your arguments, really, cuz etiquette varies
from place to place.
But in a tournament, the etiquette is simple: as long as you're not breaking the
rules, anything goes. Now, you may not play in tournaments, and that's fine, cuz
you can still have fun playing against friends or something. But don't rag on
tourney players who, in your opinion, do "cheap stuff". The bottom line is, a
fighting game is all about competition, and the point is to win. They have the
right to do whatever they want. If it means repeating some trap over and over,
and forcing the opponent to find a way out of it, so be it.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:18:2001 03:32 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Hmmm, Kelomaniac, what is all that shit comming out of your mouth? Have you
lost something? Like a clue? Hmmm, how did you Capcomers called someone who
crys over a defeat? Scrub I guess.
Look pal, if you can't keep up with a thread then don't post.
Oh, "abt" is short for "about", I didn't make it, and many people uses it.
Now, who's so piss off to starting talking crap? Who's the dumb? It's not me,
you can bet on it.
Bitch I dont call nobody shit in the arcade. YOu sure make no sence everytime
you get in here to type something! Can you please elaborate more! YOu see what
I'm doing I'm sticking to the quote, you are not! If you are going to reply,
reply to this quote dont come out saying some shit that those not make sence!
and it's who's the dumbass not dumb! Jackass!!!!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 05:00 AM:
Gee, I'm mercifull today.
Kelomaniac: So, retard, what do you want me to elaborate.
ej_333:
"If someone's primary interest in a game is nifty graphics, halfnaked chicks,
and/or interesting stories, he go plays a RPG"
Then why do you people play MvsC2???????
"If someone's primary interest in a game is to compete against other human
oppponents, he go plays a fighting game"
Well, one could play a racing game or even one of those idiotic tennis games
that are so popular nowadays.
"And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything."
Errrmmm...it isn't. Plain and simple. If you think so, then you'll either play
newbies or get shitfaced over a defeat.
"You also compete to test your skills"
You finallly got one point out of...
"And don't give me crap that "always trying to win" takes all the fun out of
it."
Takes all the fun??? Can you read??? I'm not defending loosers you know (well
maybe you don't know).
"I notice that while the winners look satisfied, the losers don't look they're
having fun at all."
If they have your stupid mentality that winning is everything, then I'm sure
they're not having fun. Now, when was the last time you've seen someone like
that? I haven't met anyone in this board with such a mentality. I bet you're
talking crap.
"the losers look like they're about to cry"
If you take video games that seriously, you really need help.
"But in a tournament..."
Now, this shows you didn't pay attention at all, all I can say is read my
previous posts or shut the fuck up (choose one).
"But don't rag on tourney players who, in your opinion, do "cheap stuff"".
Which tourney player??? Care to enlighten me? And when did I say that? Read my
prior posts when I talk abt tournaments.
"The bottom line is, a fighting game is all about competition, and the point is
to win"
That's your opinion, so don't state it as a universal truth.
"If it means repeating some trap over and over, and forcing the opponent to find
a way out of it, so be it."
Well I will answer this with another story that someone posted in a KoF forum
when a thread about US players popped up (I really hope you get this one).
England had a team at KoF, they always though they were the best (or at least
the though they were big shit). One unfaithfull day, the faced a Hong Kong team
at that game. Well, the Hong Kong team mopped the floor with them. What is the
moral? The English people got certain level of playing, and instead of going for
more, they though it was enough as it was "working" on their arcades (as it
seems to happen to Cali players). Why doing something that takes more effort if
this easy pattern is working? On the other hand, the Hong Kong guys, with all
those "stupid" rules of no throwing and other anti-cheapness, worked hard and
didn't rely on the easy stuff, improving their playing to a level that wasn't
known in England.
I hope you get the idea.
Posted by ImMature on 01:18:2001 08:07 AM:
Yo Breasts on Fire,
"so why waste my energy in this topic (since it is now quite obviously dead)?"
*You* killed the topic. BAAAASTAAARD!!
" If you really wanna flame me and cuss at me (since you are so obviously
starved for attention), you're gonna have to wait until we get into an argument
over another topic, because I simply don't have the time to waste throwing
meaningless insults back and forth. I gotta have something to really argue
over."
Ok, so let's argue over your mom then. How much does she ask for a blowjob?
"It's all really a matter of perspective. From your perspective, you were
playing with me (my, my, aren't you so smart), whereas from my perspective, you
were really just wasting your breath."
AND yours too, never forget. I mean, why do you keep replying to me then? Prove
you're smarter than me and just don't reply anymore
"You see, unlike you, I don't believe that it takes real intelligence to call
someone names (which seems to be your favorite pasttime).
Hm? Didn't you say above that name-calling and picking on people in the forums
was your favorite pasttime too? Shit I hate hypocrites
"Why so eager to cling to the past? Are you afraid the future won't turn out the
same way?"
Cause I want to teach you a practical lesson on anticipation just to make sure
you got what I said in my previous posts. Letsee, so far I've classified you as
the kinda guy who'd keep replying to my crap over & over again until I get tired
of it and decide to leave you alone. Here is your chance to prove me wrong. Next
time just shut the fuck up and don't reply. I repeat: NEXT TIME JUST SHUT THE
FUCK UP AND DON'T REPLY. Here, is your chance to prove I'm not able to play mind
games with you anymore. Let's see what your next move will be
"You really don't have anything better to do with your spare time, so you
desperately want to keep throwing poor insults at me? Truly, that is sad (and I
mean it)."
Naw don't worry about that; I don't do it in my spare time but when I'm bored at
work. There is a world of difference, buddy
"Do you really wish to continue? Fine by me, but it won't really do you much
good."
As if you had a chance. See above
"And several times I have said that your "example" is a very poor one, seeing as
you admit your opponents are poorly skilled. The SF3 example is a much better
one, and seeing as that has nothing to do with you at all, I don't see why you
think it's so important. Believe me, your constant talk of how great you think
you are doesn't impress me in the least (not much really does anymore, aside
from an absolute domination of a hardcore player)."
Forget about the O. Rugal example. Complicated stuff. And I don't feel like
explaining it anymore
"Ho hum...you want a future flamewar, you're gonna have to do better than that.
I'm quickly losing interest, seeing as you aren't being very intelligent or
insulting here."
What I'm seeing is that you seem unable to adapt yourself. I hope for your own
sake you do better in fighters than you do in flamewars (I doubt it though)
cause you're definitely NOT getting it yet. And yeah, you may lose interest. But
as I said before, you have no choice
"Don't bother telling me about your odd fantasies and hobbies, I'm not
interested in a gay-ass like you"
In fact we were talking about YOURS, weren't we?
"You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you? You must be so clever,
because you know all about Native American mythology. Anyway, I fed you to a
pack of coyotes because they were convenient, if there had been a pile of worms
I would have thrown your carcass in them. Get it through your head....you are
DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!
Oh wait....you are still alive. Okay.
*cuts immature into little pieces and throws him into a tank of pirahnas*"
Now THAT was lame
"There. Now it's THE END."
We'll see
"Don't come back, unless you wanna talk about games. "
That was *exactly* what I was doing until you started acting like some
hysterical bitch and flaming me, remember? So stop whinning
Posted by ImMature on 01:18:2001 09:20 AM:
Anyone else noticed that Seth's professional cocksuckers like Breastie & Dasrik
only make him "win" arguments by means of name-calling? I wonder how this
pathetic bunch of faggots actually have prevented most people here from standing
up for his beliefs. So bring it on you fascist shitheads, take a rest from
licking Seth 'Oh I lost cause the controller worked *fine*' Killian's ass and
let's keep up the flame bait (my main reason for coming to SRK.com anyways)
Posted by Hydro on 01:18:2001 09:55 AM:
dont play a game if you are going to get cheated?
you soound like bitch dont cheese or cheat shut that shit up.you might as well
give him your 50cents and learn from him.i was cheated at a tourney Ricky
runaway storm i put him in the loser bracket i beat him wit just im and i played
him 4 3rd and he got a lead and ran 4 71 seconds my little brother said i should
whip his ass 4 that 4 what.all that shit you all havin a baby over can be stop
so stop complainin bitches
your pride will lead to your destruction.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 10:35 AM:
Damn, I misunderstood this thread. I thought this thread was talking about
tourney scenarios, but this thread isn't. I'm entering a tourney this weekend,
and I'm getting myself into hardcore mode. If I'd known that this was a
non-tourney-scenario post, I'd have had a different perspective on things. But
still, you didn't have to cuss me out. Like u said, it's just a game, ease up on
that shit.
Oh yeah, and there is some stuff I wanted to elaborate on:
quote:
"And don't give me crap about winning isn't everything."
When I said this, I was thinking about a tourney scenario. But outside of
tourney play, yeah, people don't always have to play to win. Sometimes you play
to learn new chars or strats, or if you're playing with friends, sometimes you
just mess around or show off. In a tourney scenario, though, you'd do anything
to win, no doubt about that.
quote:
"I notice that while the winners look satisfied, the losers don't look they're
having fun at all."
If they have your stupid mentality that winning is everything, then I'm sure
they're not having fun. Now, when was the last time you've seen someone like
that? I haven't met anyone in this board with such a mentality. I bet you're
talking crap.
Ok, we have a misunderstanding here. I did not mean to say that everyone who
loses gets unhappy and bitchy. I meant to say that the people who usually cry
"cheap", they're the ones who get all unhappy and bitchy when they lose. My
sentence was poorly written.
quote:
"the losers look like they're about to cry"
If you take video games that seriously, you really need help.
Um, I wasn't talking about myself. I was talking about those people who take
losing badly (again, it's usually the guys who cry cheap). I myself am a very
mellow guy, and I take losing very well. Several people on this forum have
played against me, and they know that I'm gracious when I lose.
But about the repetitive/KOF thing:
You were complaining about people who do repetitive and redundant stuff, that
they're just morons who aren't broadening their horizons. But I don't think
that's true. My opinion is this: if a guy is doing a repetitive pattern over and
over, and if the repetitive stuff proves to be effective, why should he stop
doing it? It's not up to him to expand on his strategy. It is up to his
opponents to figure out a way to break the pattern. And until the pattern is
broken, I don't see why anyone should stop using it.
I follow KOF, so I'll use that KOF98 HK/England tourney as an example.
I don't think lowly of Ryan Hart and the other English peeps for getting trashed
by Terence Chung. I'm sure the English were fiercely competing amongst
themselves, but they were going about it the wrong way. From what I understand,
back then, the English played mostly a defensive/zoning style, which involved a
lot of poking and stuff.
Hart was probably the best at it, too. And no way Hart would change his
strategies, unless his competition could beat his strat. And since he's champ,
every English guy probably emulated his style. Thus, Hart was used to
poke/zoners, and totally unprepared for Chung.
I don't blame Hart or England, it's just that the HK comp is way fiercer than
the English comp, so Chung was pushed to higher limits than Hart. I don't want
to explain why I think HK comp is better than English comp, cuz you've prolly
already read my explanation. You talking about the KOF post on Yasakani's board?
Well, I was the guy who wrote that post about the HK/English thing. You probably
already know that, though.
Oh, and I did get your point. You were drawing an analogy between HK/England and
Japan/USA. Well, what can I say, you guys were better and beat us. That's that,
we'll see what goes down next year.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 06:42 PM:
"But still, you didn't have to cuss me out."
I tend to do so after repeating myself in four pages.
"Um, I wasn't talking about myself"
It was a general "you". I meant that most people that take it to that extent
needs help.
"It's not up to him to expand on his strategy."
If your competition is not good enough as to put your techniques to a real test,
then you should try to improve yourself anyways. If not, then the overall level
at your arcades will remain the same.
"You were drawing an analogy between HK/England and Japan/USA"
Heh, now that I know who you are, it's not a surprise you got that. BTW, you
should also consider that the japs are not only improving themselves in the
games they won, but also will give the US team a big surprise on MvsC2, and
after reading too many posts here, I must say that the level in US is not
growing.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:18:2001 09:07 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"But still, you didn't have to cuss me out."
I tend to do so after repeating myself in four pages.
Yah, I get where you're coming from, but still, I wouldn't be doing that, it's
not my style to get pissy at a keyboard and monitor. But never mind, forget it.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"
"It's not up to him to expand on his strategy."
If your competition is not good enough as to put your techniques to a real
test, then you should try to improve yourself anyways. If not, then the
overall level at your arcades will remain the same.
True, a guy should always strive to get better, even if he is already top dawg.
But you have to admit, if you're losing, or if the comp is really tight, the
push to become better becomes a lot stronger.
And sometimes, it just takes a butt-kicking to get yourself pushed. I mean, you
bring up an example yourself. Before the tourney, the J's only got so good at
MvC2, and I doubt that, by themselves, they were going to get considerably
better after so much time had already passed. But the US beat the J's bad in
MvC2, and the J's realized they gotta change the way they approach the game.
Same with how the J's beat the US in 3S and Alpha. Unfortunately, we just dont
like 3S that much, and I dont think the US is training that hard in 3S, despite
the loss, unless the top players are practicing in secret, or something.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
BTW, you should also consider that the japs are not only improving themselves
in the games they won, but also will give the US team a big surprise on MvsC2,
and after reading too many posts here, I must say that the level in US is not
growing.
I disagree, I think MvC2 is still developing here. New stuff is popping up, like
Cable becoming a little less effective, counter teams to BH/Cyke,
Spiral/Cable/Cyke, ICEMAN amazingly enough is starting to come up in tourney
results... and if the J's figure out something revolutionary about MvC2, more
power to them, bring it next tourney, it'll be neat to see.
I have no opinion on what might happen come next tourney, cuz I'm not involved
in that stuff, I'm not a top player, I'm just a middle-of-the-road tourney
player. But I'm sure the US players will bring their A-games.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:18:2001 09:41 PM:
O suck my cock!
Winning is not everything is the only thing!
If you play to lose ...... ah never mind!
all I have to say about this thread is, if you think the game is cheap, why play
it and complain!?
Like Hayo said Ricky runs away like a little bitch with Storm(NO pun RIck I do
the samething)! Lots of people think that shit is cheap! But if you got a good
anti air Storm can't run all day! The game is not cheap maybe more like
unbalance. You just need to counter attack! Cable can AHVBx3 times a assits is
Spiral is on point! Storm can't run if you got a good anti assits! Spiral can't
throw swords all day if Sentinel is on point! Sentinel/BH trap would no work all
that well if Cable is on point with some meters. And the list goes on and on!
The fact is that a good player that knows the game would not complaine! They
would just counter attack your shit!
If you dont like the game dont play it! If it's cheap, dont play it! If you play
it dont call it cheap! If you lose dont call the person cheap cause most lickly
you hear the word scrub!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 10:15 PM:
ej_333: Believe me, more than angry I get tired and flamming is my sport in this
place. You should have told me on the other forum and I wouldn't have flame you,
but it was getting tiresome (this is not the only thread where the topic popped
up) and a lot of BS showed up.
Of course it is easier when there is morecompetition, but I think that if you
have a good position in your arcades, you should push competition to a higher
level instead of only doing what's "easy and works". Again it was a general
"you".
BTW, I don't think tha Japs nor most of other countries give a damned about
MvsC2. But I can bet they're going to train it as they know that game will be in
the next tourney.
Kelomaniac: You have no dick, so stop crying bitch!!!
"Winning is not everything is the only thing!"
Then how shitty must be life for a loser like you.
"if you think the game is cheap"
Who talked about a game??? You barely can keep up with a thread.
"Ricky runs away like a little bitch"
Which Ricky? Ricky Martin? That was a gay quote.
"Lots of people think that shit is cheap!"
That's stupid!!! Running all over the place??? If you can do so with an
acceptable amount of success then the game is crap.
"The fact is that a good player that knows the game would not complain"
Not in your face dude, but he surely will talk shit about you with his friends.
"They would just counter attack your shit!"
Not "would" it's "will"
"If you dont like the game dont play it!"
No dubt, you're a rocket scientist.
"If it's cheap, dont play it!"
If it's cheap I will give it more runs for the same amount of bucks.
"If you play it dont call it cheap!"
If it's twelve cents the go, then I'm in my right to call it cheap.
"If you lose"
If you loose, you shut the fuck up (or ask the other guy for advices) and train
harder. I made that clear a long ago but seems you're too retard to get it.
Posted by Zidane on 01:18:2001 10:16 PM:
Damn, you guys all suck...ppl who whine about cheapness need to get some real
skills
[This message has been edited by Zidane (edited 01-18-2001).]
Posted by Sabin on 01:18:2001 10:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Our motto is ... The Seth Killian cult followers.
"If you disagree with me, you are wrong"
No, that's not the Seth Killian motto. People say that because it's pretty much
true. People who complain about cheapness and whine about it to the ends of the
earth are SCRUBS, and that's that. I ask you again - name one tourney player who
complains about cheapness on srk, or anywhere. I guarantee you won't find anyone
like that.
BTW, I am not a "Seth Follower", I have met Seth in real life and he is a very
intelligent guy, and nice to boot (although not online, where he has to deal
with idiots on SRK all day.) I just agree with his theories and his way of
thinking, which make perfect sense. You'll never comprehend...
quote:
Sorry dude, but I'm closer to be a god than you.
What was that supposed to mean? Do I see O. Ryoga's name up on SRK (or wherever)
for tourney results, in any game? I thought so. So stop talking garbage.
quote:
And abt whinning, well, just read the entire thread before making half-assed
assumptions.
I read the thread already...and all I see are the same tired old arguments all
over again from a bunch of scrubs who will never win tourneys, ever.
You guys can complain all you want. While you're on srk debating what is
"cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys with the "repetitive" strategies and
what-not you deem to be "cheap".
Thank you, passing through.
- Arturo
[This message has been edited by Sabin (edited 01-18-2001).]
Posted by Jinmaster on 01:18:2001 10:33 PM:
Immature,
You are being immature about this IMO. I told you that no one is going to
understand your view of cheapness unless they go out of their way to see what we
went through in the lemmings thread. Arguing further about terms that are
fundamentally different is pointless IMO. IMO means in my opinion by the way.
Sabin is another tourney player like myself who probably doesn't have the time
to understand your points. As I said before, you need to find another word than
cheap for what you have been describing here so that we can end this debate.
Both sides know what they are talking about, remember that the terms are
different.
-Micah
Posted by SithKilla on 01:18:2001 11:15 PM:
Just like to make some comments.
Kelomaniac: I hope you win every tournament you are in because I don't want to
see you self destruct when you do lose since you are not perfect and winning is
everything to you. But I won't knock your views I just don't understand them.
Everyone has been saying "you don't hear the winners saying they were cheap".
well let me tell you I have been in state tournaments using what some might call
"cheap" or unfair tactics and I have admitted to them that i was going to do
some glitches ahead of time and for the most part they weren't too pissed. (not
including gambits). Its all about perspective and interpretation.
Also i find it sad that this good topic has been graded down to a elementary
school mud slinging flame war. I haven't seen anyone say anything constructive
about this topic for the last 5 posts and if you had it was overshadowed with
quotes of insults. Truly sad.
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:18:2001 11:43 PM:
Jinmaster: Nah, everyone that payed attention knows what we're talking about.
BTW, everyone knows what IMO, IMHO and that stuff means, we're outsiders but
after a year of posting you get used to that kind of writting. BTW, the real
problem here is that most people seem to be unable to have a good discussion.
Sabin:
"People say that because it's pretty much true"
To you, idiot. People that say "if you disagree you're wrong" or "if you think
otherwise you're a scrub" are jerks that can't discuss even a simple matter like
the one in this thread. Assuming you have a universal truth but, at the same
time, not giving any back up is an obvious way to show you know nothing and
can't keep up with the discussion.
"People who complain about cheapness and whine about it to the ends of the earth
are SCRUBS, and that's that."
Read my previous paragraph and my previous posts.
"name one tourney player who complains about cheapness on srk"
Do I look like I give a fuck what your so-called tourney players do? Read my
previous post where I explain when a winner talks shit about a loser.
"I am not a Seth Follower"
You talk like one.
"I have met Seth in real life and he is a very intelligent guy"
He doesn't look like one.
"he has to deal with idiots on SRK all day"
Dunno abt his past experiences before starting Domination 101, but after reading
a couple of threads, he deserves to be flamed. Notice that I didn't do that,
'cause I don't know if he's reading anything these days.
"I just agree with his theories and his way of thinking, which make perfect
sense."
Did you read that article about balance in games? If you agreee with him, you
don't know shit about games (from my point of view, some ass kissers may think
he's right).
"You'll never comprehend"
Sorry, I understand where he comes from, but I don't think he's right. Besides
you're the one running out of brain cells dude.
"What was that supposed to mean? Do I see O. Ryoga's name up on SRK (or
wherever) for tourney results, in any game? I thought so. So stop talking
garbage."
I knew you were too dumb to get that little joke. I was mocking about your
arrogance. What? I'm not in Shoryuken list of the best players of the world?
*cough*japs either*cough*. Well, I don't play fucking Crapcom games besides CvsS
and I don't live in the US. Oh, and your name appears in list? Which place? Heh,
Seth went to Japan and lost all his matches, you can say he appears in a list,
but I could have done the same (and remember I don't play those games). So keep
your mouth shut, being good at your local arcade means shit.
"I read the thread already...and all I see are the same tired old arguments all
over again from a bunch of scrubs who will never win tourneys, ever."
Huh? you mean your local arcade tourneys? Make another guess, you haven't read
any crap. Now I bet you're gonna start calling Alex, Ricky and Vicky to support
your lack of facts, right?
"While you're on srk debating what is "cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys
with the "repetitive" strategies and what-not you deem to be "cheap"."
Heh, if you're such a tourneyman, why don't you appear in SRK's list of best
players? And why didn't you go to Japan to show how much a winner you are?
Guess again, you're just pretending to be good, but you must have only beaten
the half assed scrubs that complain, and never did good against a real good
player.
So Sabin, do you have any fact to back up your sayings? Guess what, people
outside the US gives a rat's ass about your tournamnets (in fact most people say
that you suck but I'm not there to personally check).
Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:18:2001 11:55 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Drunkengameplayer:
*SIGH*
What a nice little shit storm that I have stumbled into. Hmmmmmmm, cheap vs.
there is no such thing....... I wonder. Let's see, throwing too much is
cheap...... turtling is cheap....... constant patterns is cheap...... alot of
stuff in this thread is considered to be cheap. So, let me get this straight,
that is cheap, but showing off is'nt. Let's just say that i'm playing against
somebody, and he pulls off this amazing, hard, never in a million years combo,
and it kills me right off the bat. It causes everybody in the arcade on a
Saturday night to go quiet. It is the best looking thing I have ever seen on
this game, and the ability of skill to do it is literally "amazing", not to
mention the fact that my opponent got it off in the middle of actual combat,
not in practice mode. Does this make it cheap? Now, the skill to do it is
phenomenal, but it KILLED me. I have no chance of a comeback, why, cause i'm
dead. So I ask again, is this cheap? Personally, i'd rather be killed buy the
guy who does nothing but backwards triangle jumps into the corner with a
uppercut/fireball character. The person who does nothing but sweeps
two-in-oned into fireballs. Or the guy, who throws you every chance he get's.
So when I lose, I know that it is because of me, not some flashy combo that
can only be done by two people (the guy who did it and GOD himself). Don't get
me wrong, i'm not putting down showing off, I love to do it also. But what
people got to realize, is that there is no code of honor, it's just a game.
The word honor should'nt even be applied to a game, cause there is none. There
are times that a person can show off, but if it comes down to me killing the
guy with a throw, or a hard to do super combo, i'd pick the throw. When I play
somebody, I want a skilled player, not a combo/show off exhebitionist. All the
combos and flashy manuevers mean SHIT when a person loses. IMO, there is no
such thing as cheap (except for glitches, those do not apply to what I just
said). But that is just my opinion. Cheapness is pretty much like beauty, it's
all in the eye of the beholder.
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif">
BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif
BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:19:2001 12:48 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
ej_333: Believe me, more than angry I get tired and flamming is my sport in
this place. You should have told me on the other forum and I wouldn't have
flame you, but it was getting tiresome (this is not the only thread where the
topic popped up) and a lot of BS showed up.
It's cool, don't worry about it. Just a misunderstanding, I thought the thread
was about strictly tourney stuff.
Oh yah, it didn't occur to me to tell you that I visit Yasakani's forum, cuz I
didn't realize that you were Ryoga in the other forum. Until you mentioned the
KOF post thing, that is.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:19:2001 01:05 AM:
Ej_333: Didn't you read all the stuff ImMature and I were posting about this
place?
In fact I'm more my normal self back there, but maybe it's because of the things
I've found here, that I'm very flammy with people in this forum.
Drunkengameplayer: What the fuck are you doing in an arcade a Saturday night?
Most of the stuff you reposted was answered, if you don't feel staisfied, mark
which sentences do you want me or anybody else to reply.
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:19:2001 02:10 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
Just like to make some comments.
Kelomaniac: I hope you win every tournament you are in because I don't want to
see you self destruct when you do lose since you are not perfect and winning
is everything to you. But I won't knock your views I just don't understand
them.
I undestand what you are saying! I didn't mean it the way it sounded! But fair
enough I eat what you had to say! I been to several tourny's. The last one been
SHGL(most noticible), I breeze to the 1st round but the second round I had to
face Duc I won the 1st match and he slatur me the next too! I take my lost and
that was it! He trap me in the wall of swords and I was pretty much done! I
didnt turn around and call him cheap!! But that's besides the point!
All I was trying to say by that comment was that everytime I play I play to win!
I dont know of anybody that plays to lose! Do you? I went out of my way by
saying winning is everything but the fact is that is not! Cause you are never
going to win everything, but everytime most people step out there they have
winning in mind! Unless they suck and they alredy know they are going to lose!
And I have a few game that I know I'm going to lose no matter what!
So dont worry for me Seth I will not self destruct!
Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 03:26 AM:
To Ryoga: Hey, you better ignore that Kelomaniac guy, he just keeps posting all
kinda crap he can think of in the hopes of earning even more HPs. How else do
you think he got all those Nazi birds he has??
To Sabin: You're totally clueless, dude. As simple as that. I wonder what in the
hell made me think otherwise before. I'll try to put it simply enough for you:
Usa != The World, The World > USA. Get it AT FUCKING ONCE? There exist other
areas, other players, other tournaments and definitely other oppinions different
from those of the Cali top-tiers. But then again, OF COURSE, everybody else is
wrong, isn't it?
To Jinmaster: Well sorry 'bout that, but I've already noticed that every time a
person start disagreeing with the "majority" here at SRK.com he's *invariably*
flamed. No exceptions. And yeah, I know there is some cultural missundestanding
between us but the weird thing is, in every fighting games-related forum I've
been before, cheapness is a perfectly acceptable term, everybody knows what it
means. Capcom fans I know in Real Life accept the existance of the concept as
well. I wonder why here is different. When people here "discovered" that
cheapness didn't exist and how come the rest of the people who use to play
fighters (and I don't mean only SNK ones) haven't discovered it yet?
Posted by Jinmaster on 01:19:2001 03:26 AM:
O. Ryoga,
I disagree somewhat, I think the majority of people see you and Immature talking
about cheapness, and people are all too anxious to respond with thier own ideas.
They think you guys are whining like most scrubs in the united states do about
cheapness.
MAYBE I can clear this up guys....
EVERYONE:
Immature means to say that there is a point where you play fighting games as a
newbie, you suck, and can't beat anyone. Then there is a point where one
discovers that certain patterns and moves allow you to beat the low end of your
competetion with little else. By using these same things over and over to win,
ones game does not really improve or even mean very much, even though the winner
might think it does.
Immature and Ryoga call this stage in one's game cheap. The idea that doing
something over and over makes you good.
This is the reason that I don't think Immature is a scrub, he has said several
times that he agrees that it takes zero skill to lose, that winners always show
more skill than losers. He is only saying that repetitive play, in and of
itself, doesn't show for much since fighting games go deeper than that.
Therefore, people who play in such a way are called cheap in Immature's
country/area. This is a different concept than the US thoughts on cheapness and
scrubdom.
Anyone who needs clarification should look up the "DUMB SNK LEMMINGS" thread a
few pages back and read pages 7-10. Hopefully that will make this situation
better.
-Micah
Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 03:56 AM:
Thank you again Jinmaster. I see you got it. BTW I wanted to point out another
thing. About scrubs accusing their opponents of being cheap after losing to 'em,
OF COURSE it happens in my area as well (it's not the most common excuse
though). Hell I've came here and supported (more or less) honorable gameplay but
do you think that me myself am not called a cheapo sometimes as well? Hell of
course I am. "Oh you only won cause you used Takuma/Mai/Choi/whoever and s/he is
cheap!", "Oh how cheap reversals are!" (oh my gawd, reversals cheap?? They take
anticipation, how in the world could someone believe such a thing). And that
kinda stuff, it happens here too. OF COURSE I'm in the receiving end of those
kinda comments some times as well. But so what? I dunno, thing is that people
here really don't take in consideration what scrubs (=unskilled players who are
not enough into the game) say, they can say whatever they want and nobody cares.
We don't make such a big deal of which excuses scrubs may make up...
Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 01:19:2001 03:58 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Drunkengameplayer: What the fuck are you doing in an arcade a Saturday night?
Most of the stuff you reposted was answered, if you don't feel staisfied, mark
which sentences do you want me or anybody else to reply.[/B]
To tell the truth, I was half asleep when I did that, I wanted to say something,
but I guess I just forgot. I did'nt even remember visiting these forums today
until just now. LOL And I was'nt at the arcade on a Saturday night, it was a
hypothetical scenario.
http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/drunk.gif
BEER - Helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 04:55 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok, so let's argue over your mom then. How much does she ask for a blowjob?
Leave my mom out of this. Period. NOBODY insults my mother or my family. My
mother is the nicest and most tolerant person I know (and she has advanced
ovarian cancer, so I feel really bad about her right now). I don't give a rat's
ass what you say about me, but leave my mom alone. That's as far as you can go
before I really get upset (whereas before I was only mildly irritated).
quote:
Hm? Didn't you say above that name-calling and picking on people in the forums
was your favorite pasttime too? Shit I hate hypocrites
I said I like to mess with people who talk shit in the arcade and bitch all the
time (ie., "That was bullshit!", which is one of their favorite quotes). Big
difference. No hypocrisy there.
quote:
Cause I want to teach you a practical lesson on anticipation just to make sure
you got what I said in my previous posts. Letsee, so far I've classified you
as the kinda guy who'd keep replying to my crap over & over again until I get
tired of it and decide to leave you alone. Here is your chance to prove me
wrong. Next time just shut the fuck up and don't reply. I repeat: NEXT TIME
JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DON'T REPLY. Here, is your chance to prove I'm not
able to play mind games with you anymore. Let's see what your next move will
be
That in and of itself is part of your little "game". When someone stops
responding to a bastard like you, you get the idea that you've "won", so either
way, you have the "upper hand", whether I keep posting or not. The only reason I
replied here is because you are spewing shit that I don't agree with (the crack
on my mom, for example).
quote:
Naw don't worry about that; I don't do it in my spare time but when I'm bored
at work. There is a world of difference, buddy
Actually, there isn't, seeing as it doesn't make the hobby any less
unintelligent or offensive.
quote:
Forget about the O. Rugal example. Complicated stuff. And I don't feel like
explaining it anymore
Nothing complicated about it. You beat scrubs (who use a powerful character)
with underdogs. It's not impressive. I've seen it done and done it myself
several times, and it's not difficult.
quote:
In fact we were talking about YOURS, weren't we?
I've never done anything you've mentioned in your posts. You're the one who came
up with that crap. If you think about stuff like that while you're at work, then
that makes you a gay-ass. Has nothing to do with me.
quote:
That was *exactly* what I was doing until you started acting like some
hysterical bitch and flaming me, remember? So stop whinning
SHUT THE FUCK UP. And you called me a hypocrite. You are the one who called me a
"level 2 scrub" in your response to my first post (which contained no flames at
all). And the rest of your response was also littered with your little insults.
You are the one who started a flamewar, not me. You were not really talking
about games at all, you just insulted me about every five lines while throwing
in some irrelevant crap about how you beat O.Rugal scrubs with Mature and Billy.
That's all.
And you *REALLY* don't know what hysterical is (or you have an odd definition).
Not that it was relevant at all or had anything to do with the topic.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 05:03 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Anyone else noticed that Seth's professional cocksuckers like Breastie &
Dasrik only make him "win" arguments by means of name-calling? I wonder how
this pathetic bunch of faggots actually have prevented most people here from
standing up for his beliefs. So bring it on you fascist shitheads, take a rest
from licking Seth 'Oh I lost cause the controller worked *fine*' Killian's ass
and let's keep up the flame bait (my main reason for coming to SRK.com
anyways)
In case you don't remember, I specifically told you in one of my earlier replies
NOT to bring up Seth Killian. I'm not necessarily a Seth supporter, I just
happen to agree with some of the stuff that he says. I'm not fucking trying to
defend Seth, or "Seth's beliefs", I'm defending my own thoughts.
And in case you didn't notice, anyone who *EVER* mentions a moderator or
"authority" on this site usually gets the first flaming (usually from "fascist
shitheads" like you), because people can't think of a better argument, except
saying "You're an ass-licker, you're just kissing up to the mods". Jerk.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:19:2001 04:42 PM:
Jinmaster: You got it right!!!
Here I will do a summary:
- If you loose, you shouldn't complain as no one will give a fuck about your
reasons (like "the winner was cheap" or "the controllers worked fine"). Even
though is perfectly acceptable to ask the winner for advices.
- If you won by using the same pattern over and over again, don't think you're
the big shit, it's most likely that your competition wasn't up to your
technique. So, now that you master that technique, you can try something
different so you don't get your ass handed when you meet a better competition
(like the Japs).
- If you won in a more stylish way (making people say "Ohhhh") then keep trying
to learn more stuff, you're probably on the right path, but thinking you're the
best is just dreaming.
- Why if there is a simple pattern that works I should try something new? Well,
someone who's style is repeating a simple pattern over and over again, will have
big problems when the pattern gets solved (and if your best pattern becomes
useless then you're likely to be history).
- What is cheap? Big reward with little effort. It's mostly applyable to simple
repetitive patterns whithout caring if it works or not.
- Winners will probably call some losers cheap, but not in their faces; it's
likely they will comment it with their friends.
- Funny thing, there are lots of winners in the US, people that wins every
tourney they enter. Even though I read like 5 names in the top (I mean, the
first positions are always shared by a small group of players) and none of them
are the ones that post here. Does it ring a bell? BTW, don't take it as a bash
to all the US players, you know which two guys I'm talking about.
- Now, no one is a follower of Seth, yet most of them blindly accept his sayings
without thinking twice and flame those who are against it. Why to flame someone
that's not flamming you if you are right? Guess what? You are not right at all
and you don't know how to defend your beliefs.
Posted by satsuinohadojosh on 01:19:2001 05:00 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelomaniac:
How many fucking times is this topic going to be made? There's no such thing!
IMO is skills. WTF died and made this people in charge? I only hear people
that lose call something cheap! Get over it his better than you that's why his
beating you! If you think the shit they doing is cheap and easy to do why
don't you do it back to them? I guess cause you are going to realize you where
sorrier than what you tough! Bitches!!!!
BTW meaning of Cheap:
Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
Stingy; miserly.
listen to that last part of the quote. "worthy of no respect" i see this crap
all the time. the spiral trap? its the same shit over and over again! all these
guys that sit and master the spiral trap could be mastering something NEW.
something that everyone hasnt seen before. something that LOOKS COOL. if the
only people that say cheapness exists lose, then the only ones that say it
doesnt are the ones that play cheap. there is no skill in cheese damage, my
friends.
Posted by ImMature on 01:19:2001 09:55 PM:
And then again, you replied again AS I PREDICTED
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Leave my mom out of this. Period. NOBODY insults my mother or my family. My
mother is the nicest and most tolerant person I know (and she has advanced
ovarian cancer, so I feel really bad about her right now). I don't give a
rat's ass what you say about me, but leave my mom alone. That's as far as you
can
go before I really get upset (whereas before I was only mildly irritated).
Ok sorry 'bout that. Honest
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
That in and of itself is part of your little "game". When someone stops
responding to a bastard like you, you get the idea that you've "won", so
either way, you have the "upper hand", whether I keep posting or not. The only
reason I replied here is because you are spewing shit that I don't agree with
(the crack on my mom, for example).
Either way I have the upper hand, that's pretty much correct. You got it, I'm
impressed. BTW the stuff about your mom was intended to manipulate you into
replying to my crap *again*. And hell it worked. I was sure you were gonna reply
anyways though...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Actually, there isn't, seeing as it doesn't make the hobby any less
unintelligent or offensive.
Ok so try to remember that next time you gang up with morons like Dasrik on
someone who disagrees with the majority
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Nothing complicated about it. You beat scrubs (who use a powerful character)
with underdogs. It's not impressive. I've seen it done and done it myself
several times, and it's not difficult.
Sigh that again. As Setsuna X (Orochinagi.com mod) says, "a monkey trained to
perform quarter cyrcle motions could RULE with O. Rugal". And it's pretty much
true. Hey just don't trust me, just try to beat ANY O. Rugal SCRUB you know
using Billy and find out for yourself. As long as said scrub knows how to
perform O.Rugal's FB, Genocide Cutter anti-air, teleport move and the DMs I can
grant you that, if you haven't practiced a lot with Billy, you WON'T beat him. I
only gave you the O. Rugal example meaning that if you're able to beat O. Rugal
players with Billy in '99DM, although they're scrubs (it doesn't matter much, O.
Rugal's advantage over Billy is *HUGE* even if your opponent is not a master
player), then when you come to KOF'98, WHERE THE REAL COMPETITION IS, you won't
have much problem beating top-tier chars with Billy as well. I prefer not to put
him against DAMN GOOD Iori or Takuma players though. And BTW, I seldom put
Mature & Billy in the same team when playing a worthy opponent (I may be
idealistic but not suicidal)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
SHUT THE FUCK UP. And you called me a hypocrite. You are the one who called me
a "level 2 scrub" in your response to my first post (which contained no flames
at all). And the rest of your response was also littered with your little
insults. You are the one who started a flamewar, not me.
WTF?!? Who started the fucking name-calling? It wasn't me, now was it??
Posted by Da Suburban Gangsta on 01:19:2001 10:08 PM:
Cheap? The last thing that comes to my mind when I think cheap is Capcom games.
I mean $150 for a Dreamcast, $40 for each game, $30 for extra controllers. That
doesn't count as cheap in my book. And a day at the arcade can easily set me
back...let's see...fifty cents a game...if I play ten games...and I win my usual
zero percent of them...that leaves me two fifty in the hole. If it was cheap
then the games would cost a penny to play, so therefore Capcom games are not
cheap at all.
~Quoth the Gangsta: "Bang Bang"~
http://acidcore.hypermart.net/ecw/ecw010.jpg
Posted by ej_333 on 01:19:2001 11:12 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Ej_333: Didn't you read all the stuff ImMature and I were posting about this
place?
Oh yah, I did, but I didn't think about it much. Your handle is slightly
different here, too, so I never made the connection.
I was much more aware of Immature's presence, though, cuz he seemed to talk
about it a lot more.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:19:2001 11:35 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Either way I have the upper hand, that's pretty much correct. You got it, I'm
impressed. BTW the stuff about your mom was intended to manipulate you into
replying to my crap *again*. And hell it worked. I was sure you were gonna
reply anyways though...
Actually, I was pretty much ready to stop talking and let you kill your own
time, since I got tired of the same crap over and over. The crack about my mom
just struck me as really being out of line. My philosophy is that you don't
bring the family into it unless the family brings itself in.
quote:
Ok so try to remember that next time you gang up with morons like Dasrik on
someone who disagrees with the majority
My first post in this thread was a response to Invincible Swordsman, as well as
an overall statement of my thoughts on the topic. I'm sorry if you felt like I
was "ganging up on you", but I wasn't, really. You kind of jumped on me with
your attitude because I disagreed with your view (which I guess I understand
now). You'd be suprised on how much Dasrik and I disagree on (ie, he says Hayato
sucks ass in MVC2, but I still think he's effective).
quote:
Sigh that again. As Setsuna X (Orochinagi.com mod) says, "a monkey trained to
perform quarter cyrcle motions could RULE with O. Rugal". And it's pretty much
true. Hey just don't trust me, just try to beat ANY O. Rugal SCRUB you know
using Billy and find out for yourself. As long as said scrub knows how to
perform O.Rugal's FB, Genocide Cutter anti-air, teleport move and the DMs I
can grant you that, if you haven't practiced a lot with Billy, you WON'T beat
him. I only gave you the O. Rugal example meaning that if you're able to beat
O. Rugal players with Billy in '99DM, although they're scrubs (it doesn't
matter much, O. Rugal's advantage over Billy is *HUGE* even if your opponent
is not a master player), then when you come to KOF'98, WHERE THE REAL
COMPETITION IS, you won't have much problem beating top-tier chars with Billy
as well. I prefer not to put him against DAMN GOOD Iori or Takuma players
though. And BTW, I seldom put Mature & Billy in the same team when playing a
worthy opponent (I may be idealistic but not suicidal)
Fine, fine, I'll get off the damn subject, but I still think having an opponent
of equal skill is what counts when trying to point out character advantages. But
you are right about O.Rugal, I'll give you that. And I understand wanting to
play as your favorite characters. The KOF 99 Evolution version of Kyo (the REAL
Kyo) is weakened greatly compared to his KOF 98 form, but I still use him (and I
think I'm pretty damn good with him).
quote:
WTF?!? Who started the fucking name-calling? It wasn't me, now was it??
I think calling someone a scrub out of the blue can be considered name-calling
(albeit on a very low level). So yes, it was you.
In closing, I'd like to apologize for some of my earlier aggression. It's not
really your fault that I didn't know what your specific definition of "cheap"
was (although I think it's an inaccurate term to use to describe what you
meant). I just got defensive because I thought you were attacking my views
simply because I disagreed with you (I didn't all-out attack you in my first
post). But no hard feelings, right? Later.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Sabin on 01:20:2001 04:18 AM:
Hrm, I expected something like this to happen.
O. Ryoga/ImMature
Jinmaster is right, I'm not going to waste time trying to understand your point
of views because we;;, it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you. If
there's something I've learned after posting on message boards for several
years, it's that you're not going to change someone's mind, especially not on
the internet. Most ppl on message boards are very hard-headed anyways. So why
waste your time? While I applaud Jinmaster for trying to make you peeps
understand, I assume he has a lot of time on his handa =)
Anyhow, I'm just posting to let you two know that I didn't read your arguments,
at all. I skimmed through your responses to me and they were mainly filled with
the words "idiot, moron, fuck, shit, etc". Which shows me that you resorted to
name-calling - which is lame. Just to let you guys know, I will never agree with
anything you say about cheapness, ever, regardless or what you say, and I'm done
with my brief effort in trying to convince you.
This is my last post on this topic.
Oh, and before I go, I was wondering - O. Ryoga and ImMature, why are you two
guys even here? It seems that you two (ImMature especially) have nothing better
to do than to flame people into oblivion, resort to name-calling, pick fights
with other people (like that time ImMature started the "Hey Crapcom morons"
thread,) I thought that was pretty dumb. On top of that, when you guys do talk
about SF, you have been proven wrong on multiple occasions (the recent example I
remember is O. Ryoga trying to talk about EX-Yuri - lolol.)
The thing that pisses me off the most about you guys is that you don't really
post anything gameplay related, your posts are a bunch of flames, and you go out
of your way to bash Capcom and proclaim that "KOF IS king" endlessly, knowing
that you're going to piss people off.
So I ask you guys again: Why are you even here? First of all, I'm pretty sure
noone likes you on SRK. Secondly, I wouldn't find it fun to sit in front of my
PC and flame ppl all day..it isn't fun at all.
See? I "argued" without saying fuck you, you're a shithead, etc..without saying
any meaningless insults. You should learn to argue without those; maybe more ppl
will take you seriously.
- Arturo
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:20:2001 05:07 AM:
Heh, this is really funny, you guys always flame nd suddenly say you won't post
any more in the thread, but eventually show up again.
"it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you"
It's not if you do it in the right terms, if you start with "If you disagree
with me, you are wrong" or "scrub" or "go screw yourself" I'll obviously give a
fuck about your sayings.
"you're not going to change someone's mind"
In fact, if you think no discussion will have a result, then you shouldn't start
arguing.
"Which shows me that you resorted to name-calling - which is lame"
I never resort to that unless:
- I'm enetering into a flame-bait type of thread.
- I'm repeating myself over and over again (yeap, retyping is also boring) and
all I've got is another flammy guy nicked Sabin or Kelomaniac.
"the recent example I remember is O. Ryoga trying to talk about EX-Yuri"
In fact it was never my desire to talk about that character and only said one
stupid thing on that, if you need a tip to "win more tourneys" I won't mind
enlightening you.
"you don't really post anything gameplay related"
In fact, I did and all I received as reply was "Alex says this" or "Seth says
that" and no gameplay hint. That's why we call it "The Seth Killian Cult".
See, you screwed at the ending. Seems you still have to learn how to communicate
with people that doesn't share your opinions.
Posted by TRuNK$ on 01:20:2001 05:17 AM:
BOTTOM LINE IS, IF YOU'RE GOOD CHEAPNESS DOESN'T EXIST, END OF DISCUSSION!!!!
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/KKtag.gif "teakwondo is the sport of kings"
Posted by Zidane on 01:20:2001 04:53 PM:
Just going to respond to a couple of random things here and there.
Trunks: well said
ImMature: Personally, the reason that the "top players" don't respond to these
forums is because they don't think it's worth their time..Hell, if Alex tried to
point out to you why your views on cheapness are wrong, I doubt you'd listen to
him anyway..so most of the top playrs take a "why bother" mentality and just
keep shut.
Actually, a couple of the top players post every now and then...James Chen has
been placing pretty consistently in CVS tourneys and he posts..not that much
however..
Jinmanster isn't that consistent, although he has placed in a bunch of tourneys
before (from what I see on SRK.) He knows what he's talking about, as well. I've
seen that fool place in MVC2/CVS tourneys
Sabin is pretty outspoken as well..he's the #1 player on the East Coast right
now, and he's undefeated in CvS tourneys at the moment. He's on the SRK
newsticker like every week, almost.
I think he, too, takes the mentailty of "they're scrubs, why bother posting" -
with a litle variation on it. He posts, but he'll only pot once or twice, say
his viewpoints, and leave.
BTW, I agree with Sabin that the majority of your posts are nothing but flames.
Don't you get tired of flaming ppl all day? =/
O. Ryoga: LOL. I find it funny how you make up stuff - like the part in your
response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he sucks. Funny how you
say that - since he was a hair away from making it on Team USA. (He placed
something like 7th, I think.) I think you're just making that up..
Also, I noticed that almost all of your arguments end up resorting to
name-calling, or something else to that effect. How do you expect someone to
understand your viewpoints when you keep name calling all the time?
BTW, why do you think that everyone who shares Seth's views or defends him is a
Seth follower? The guy does make sense when he writes his editorials. He brings
up some valid points backed up by solid facts - which is more than you can say
for the rest of your arguments.
- Zidane, the lurking EC scrub
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:20:2001 10:18 PM:
Trunks: If you have nothing to say don't post. Lots of people tried that
argument to no avail.
Zidane:
"like the part in your response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he
sucks."
I didn't say that, read my post again (and don't make up things).
"...I think you're just making that up"
See, Sabin says he wins, wins and wins. If that was true, he wouldn't have been
a hair from team US but he would have been team US main player. It's a fact and
I'm not making it up. He talked a lot about how a great and undefeatable player
he was, but he didn't make it to the Japs, so his tournament victories are
nothing outside the US. I'm not saying h's a bad player, I'm saying that the
rest of the world gives a fuck about what happens in the US.
"I noticed that almost all of your arguments end up resorting to name-calling,
or something else to that effect"
In fact they don't. Read my latest reply to Sabin where I explained myself.
"why do you think that everyone who shares Seth's views or defends him is a Seth
follower?"
Not everyone who shares his views, veryone who shares them and flame the one
thinking different are. Besides, all that ass kissing is pathetic from my point
of view.
"The guy does make sense when he writes his editorials."
Only one thing, read the "Balance in games" thread to see how senseless he is.
"He brings up some valid points backed up by solid facts"
Valid points???? Solid facts??? So saying "I think this way and if you think
otherwise you're a scrub" is having solid facts???
"which is more than you can say for the rest of your arguments."
As I posted before, if it's not a flame only thread post real solid facts based
on in game hints. The bad thing here is that most people resort to saying that
they talked to Riky, Vicky and Picky and they said I was wrong (which means crap
to me, as you need another in game fact to prove me wrong).
Posted by ImMature on 01:20:2001 10:53 PM:
To Sabin:
"Jinmaster is right, I'm not going to waste time trying to understand your point
of views because we;;, it's pretty pointless to try and debate with you."
And how do you know? You haven't even read what we posted
"Most ppl on message boards are very hard-headed anyways."
Hell yeah; Tell me about that
"Anyhow, I'm just posting to let you two know that I didn't read your arguments,
at all."
You didn't read what we posted, yet you keep saying we're wrong. See what I
mean?
" I skimmed through your responses to me and they were mainly filled with the
words "idiot, moron, fuck, shit, etc". Which
shows me that you resorted to name-calling - which is lame."
We only resort to name-calling when we got flamed first. Go and check
" Just to let you guys know, I will never agree with anything you say about
cheapness, ever, regardless or what you say,"
So what you mean is "Although I don't know what you guys are talking about cause
I didn't read the argument, I disagree with you BEFOREHAND cause you're the
villains here"? Nuff said man
"So I ask you guys again: Why are you even here?"
Well this is supposed to be a secret Ikari Warriors mission but what the hell?
Cause fellow SNK fan & Capcom hater Yojimbo cleverly manipulated us into joining
the "Dumb SNK lemmings" thread. Y'know, since both Ryoga & I think we're Ralf &
Clark respectively we had no choice but to follow Commander Heidern's (aka
Yojimbo) orders. Well now seriously, it was said thread the one that brought us
here. Even the title was asking for a flamewar
"First of all, I'm pretty sure noone likes you on SRK."
Really?? I think I'm gonna start crying inconsolably or something
"Secondly, I wouldn't find it fun to sit in front of my PC and flame ppl all
day..it isn't fun at all."
Oh have you tried then?
"See? I "argued" without saying fuck you, you're a shithead, etc..without saying
any meaningless insults."
See? Neither did I. And I'm supposed to be the villain here, so KUDOS to myself
To Beast of Fire: Ok man, no hard feelings at all. See, the brawl's over
To Zidane: Just read my reply to Sabin, will ya?
Posted by OrangeCat on 01:21:2001 08:15 AM:
Actually I very much enjoy the presence of SNK enthusiasts that post here. Even
though that most people would say WTF, and decide to say just F off, they do
bring other POVs, many of them which we are not exposed to from an especially
different view-point of game peference. You have to consider that this does
indeed spice up these forums which has resulted into nothing much except for
Dragonball Z battles, Comic book battles, who is/isn't the hottest, and constant
repetitive questions of already "who is the best in such and such" although I am
pleased to see the CvS is picking up in terms of discussion.
Anyway, this is one person who welcomes these SNK fans, despite the obvious
tension that both our sides causes.
Orange Cat
Posted by Zidane on 01:21:2001 02:07 PM:
Ok. After reading your response - now I KNOW you're making stuff up for the sake
of arguing.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Zidane:
"like the part in your response to Sabin's reply that a lot of people thinks he
sucks."
I didn't say that, read my post again (and don't make up things).
"...I think you're just making that up"
See, Sabin says he wins, wins and wins. If that was true, he wouldn't have been
a hair from team US but he would have been team US main player. It's a fact and
I'm not making it up. He talked a lot about how a great and undefeatable player
he was, but he didn't make it to the Japs, so his tournament victories are
nothing outside the US. I'm not saying h's a bad player, I'm saying that the
rest of the world gives a fuck about what happens in the US.
Um. LOL. When did Sabin ever go online and say how much of a great and
undefeatable player he was? Please. Show me a quote. I'd love to hear this.
I haven't seen him talk smack on SRK once - unless it is calld for (or directed
at him)
I don't expect you to know this, but actualy, he was ASKED to be a part of Team
USA (by John Choi) - but he refused (for some unknown reason.). There was a big
discussion on SRK a while back about the lack of the "Team East Coast" being on
Team USA (mainly, Sabin and Eddie). I think Jinmaster certainly knows what I'm
talking about - I don't remember all the details, maybe he can clear it up.
All I know is, I've never seen Sabin talk shit to someone on SRK unless it's
called for - nor have I seen him brag about his tournament victories. Ever.
There are tons of other little nuggets in this thread that I wanted to respond
to, but unfortunately my time is short and I have to go. Until next time..
- Zidane, the lurking EC scrub
Posted by Pungza on 01:21:2001 10:36 PM:
Ofcourse cheapness exist look at MvsC2. no more comment on this. what a stupid
question
Posted by Brandon Lee on 01:21:2001 10:42 PM:
I prefer to accept life as what is rather than what should be. There is nothing
wrong with hoping for what should be but I live in the present. I must deal with
the problems and issues that are before me. I must deal with reality rather than
fantasy. I would love it if Marvel vs. Capcom 2 had perfect balance. I would
absolutely love it. But that is not the case so I must deal with it. For people
who hate the game so much, I would kindly advise you not to play the game then.
And if you choose to play, please just play the game and let your hatred go.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:21:2001 10:51 PM:
ImMature: Lol, where's Chi-Leona? I want a Leona.
Zidane:
Why don't you SRK people read the thread before entering into the discussion?
It'll spare you a lot of flames, 'cause people gets sick of reposting things
just because a new retard popped up asking something that was replied during the
previous three pages.
"When did Sabin ever go online and say how much of a great and undefeatable
player he was? Please. Show me a quote."
I'll grant you that wish:
Sabin wrote:"You guys can complain all you want. While you're on srk debating
what is "cheap", I'll keep on winning tourneys".
"I haven't seen him talk smack on SRK once"
Well, why don't you try reading the threads? You'll find a lot of stuff there.
"There was a big discussion on SRK a while back about the lack of the "Team East
Coast" being on Team USA"
That would do a lot of good to you. I mean it's too noticeable that only Cali
players make team US (being the US such a big country with so many states in
it).
"All I know is, I've never seen Sabin talk shit to someone on SRK"
He did it here, and I kept a serious profile in this thread until I had to
repeat myself for the 100th time (so thank the idiots that don't read a thread
and post crap).
Sayonara Zidane, and if you want to reply in a thread, always remember to read
the thread before posting crap.
Posted by ImMature on 01:21:2001 11:19 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by OrangeCat:
Actually I very much enjoy the presence of SNK enthusiasts that post here.
Even though that most people would say WTF, and decide to say just F off, they
do bring other POVs, many of them which we are not exposed to from an
especially different view-point of game peference. You have to consider that
this does indeed spice up these forums which has resulted into nothing much
except for Dragonball Z battles, Comic book battles, who is/isn't the hottest,
and constant repetitive questions of already "who is the best in such and
such" although I am pleased to see the CvS is picking up in terms of
discussion.
Anyway, this is one person who welcomes these SNK fans, despite the obvious
tension that both our sides causes.
Orange Cat
Hey man, thanks a lot for giving a chance to the supposed bad guys here aka the
SNK purists. And BTW I agree with ya, this kinda arguments are surely most
interesting than those typical and dreaded threads you can find in most fighting
games forums these days, namely "Who would win in a fight between X and Y?!?",
where both X and Y can be just ANYONE either real or fictional, from Pac-Man to
Ted Bundy...That's getting old, now isn't it?
---
"...And to believe that Billy Kane is stronger than Orochi is just dumb. Why
would a simple British punk be more powerful than an ancient Japanese god?? If
that's true though, then SNK sucks for letting an uglily designed character beat
their most powerful stuff..." - Reply I received at MadMan's on my COMICAL essay
about Billy's "supremacy" in the SNK universe
Posted by ImMature on 01:21:2001 11:37 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
ImMature: Lol, where's Chi-Leona? I want a Leona.
Yep I want a Leona too, but it can't be chi (as she hates Leona with a passion).
Don't worry though, if chi ever comes here her role probably will be that of Fio
from Metal Slug: she'd just come here in her TANK and blow up SRK.com to pieces
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:22:2001 12:33 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Pungza:
Ofcourse cheapness exist look at MvsC2. no more comment on this. what a stupid
question
Of course, you're an idiot who can't argue worth a shit, no more comment on
this.
At least most others say WHY they think cheapness exists. People like you aren't
worth a damn.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ready to do or die?"
"Victory is mine!"
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 12:38 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
To Ryoga: Hey, you better ignore that Kelomaniac guy, he just keeps posting
all kinda crap he can think of in the hopes of earning even more HPs. How else
do you think he got all those Nazi birds he has??
To Sabin: You're totally clueless, dude. As simple as that. I wonder what in
the hell made me think otherwise before. I'll try to put it simply enough for
you: Usa != The World, The World > USA. Get it AT FUCKING ONCE? There exist
other areas, other players, other tournaments and definitely other oppinions
different from those of the Cali top-tiers. But then again, OF COURSE,
everybody else is wrong, isn't it?
To Jinmaster: Well sorry 'bout that, but I've already noticed that every time
a person start disagreeing with the "majority" here at SRK.com he's
*invariably* flamed. No exceptions. And yeah, I know there is some cultural
missundestanding between us but the weird thing is, in every fighting
games-related forum I've been before, cheapness is a perfectly acceptable
term, everybody knows what it means. Capcom fans I know in Real Life accept
the existance of the concept as well. I wonder why here is different. When
people here "discovered" that cheapness didn't exist and how come the rest of
the people who use to play fighters (and I don't mean only SNK ones) haven't
discovered it yet?
You dip shit Sabin is not a Cali top tier his a NyC top tier!
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 12:52 AM:
Ok men, there are things in the game that are cheap!
Sentinel/BH
Strider/Doom
Cable AHVB
Storm run away!
Guard Break
Doom/BH
Cable/Storm
Spiral wall of swords
Ect.
I use to think that way too, until I started to realize there where counters for
every single one and until I said fuck it and I play the same way. Now I’m
trying to help you understand although you consider it cheap people that play
the game in high competition don’t! If you think is cheap why don’t you pick the
same teams and run it on them? Let’s see if you can. Men, if you put as much
effort in knocking down this tactics as you do to tell use that we are cheap,
you might change your views on everything.
Just one question. When you read the front page of shoryuken, why people that
win the tourneys are using different teams? If you look at the Duc vs. Valle
team why did they change teams? It’s all about counter attack and knowing what
to do against a team that a person with lesser skills don’t! Read the Traps
article, you can read al type of counters to the teams that you think are the
cheapest!
Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 06:10 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelomaniac:
You dip shit Sabin is not a Cali top tier his a NyC top tier!
Whatever...
Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 06:16 AM:
Read Domination 101.
Read the traps article.
You are cheap cause you use stuff they cant counter because of their lack of
skill?
How would anyone get better if no one tried to do anything that was better then
their opponent?
Fucking scrubs.
Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 06:56 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jinsogood:
Read Domination 101.
Read the traps article.
You are cheap cause you use stuff they cant counter because of their lack of
skill?
How would anyone get better if no one tried to do anything that was better
then their opponent?
Fucking scrubs.
Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in
Conan the Barbarian the movie...
Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 07:03 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in
Conan the Barbarian the movie...
Fuck that shit.
I believed that this shit wasnt cheap before I read Seth.
But his shit is the only thing online about the topic of cheapness not written
by a fucking idiot.
Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 07:13 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jinsogood:
Fuck that shit.
I believed that this shit wasnt cheap before I read Seth.
But his shit is the only thing online about the topic of cheapness not written
by a fucking idiot.
Can you please try to argue without resorting to using words such as 'fuck' or
'shit', you motherfucking shit-for-brains? Do you suck Seth's cock with that
dirty mouth of yours?? Heh no wonder why he lost 5/5 then...
Posted by Jinsogood on 01:22:2001 07:15 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Can you please try to argue without resorting to using words such as 'fuck' or
'shit', you motherfucking shit-for-brains? Do you suck Seth's cock with that
dirty mouth of yours?? Heh no wonder why he lost 5/5 then...
Ooooh cant refute what I say so you insult me to cover up your ignorance.
Classic Scrub tactic.
Can you get any scrubbier?
Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 07:18 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jinsogood:
Can you get any scrubbier?
Nope. Can YOU teach me the way?
Posted by SithKilla on 01:22:2001 10:28 AM:
Wow alot of posts here about nothing now. I have already given my reasons and
philosophy on this subject so I will just make some counter points to what some
people have said.
Firstly people can say what they want but i know i can become good at whatever
game i play and I still belive in the concept of cheapness. Every single game
made my capcom has unbalanced details that makes alot of people call a person
that uses these tactics cheap.
Again to me the only time something is cheap to me is when you do something
illegal to your advantage or your opponent has no chance of winning. If you hit
my buttons while playing your damn right i am going to call you a cheezy
bastard. If the game has been rigged for you to win again this is valid. But
people have to realize that glitches and infinites are a part of the game. It is
in no sense a good thing and to me is really unfair when sombody wins this way,
but it is not cheap. That is why MvC2 is such a broken game.
I have read alot of posts on this forum and see that people diss Kelomaniac and
Beast of Fire alot here. I'll be honest I really don't agree with some of thier
views on cheapness and i think they have been overly harsh on people sometimes.
but what makes them different than half the people posting here is that they
back up what they say with examples and legitimate reasons on why they feel that
way. For that i give respect.
Oh yeah I would ask if we could all be men and women about this topic and not
insult people unecesarily. Especially mothers. This has nothing to do with the
topic.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-21-2001).]
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:22:2001 09:36 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Oh Mai, I've never seen so many people brainwashed by Seth before, not even in
Conan the Barbarian the movie...
I just have a question, WTF do you keep bringing Seth up? I don't even know who
the fuck is Seth! IF we share the same opinion hey it's all good, but I'm not
following nobody!
Posted by ImMature on 01:22:2001 11:47 PM:
Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community have
"discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still keeps
believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic scrubs or
something?
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:23:2001 12:38 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community
have "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still
keeps believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic
scrubs or something?
I wrote a big thing explaining why, then I erase it and put it into simple
words! Lot's of peeps here face all the stuff that you say is cheap, they learn
to play with it and against it, so they have a oppend mind to why is not cheap!
People that don't face this thing un a regular basic and dosen't know how to
face it or do it, will always think it's cheap!
I try my best men!
Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 01:03 AM:
I can answer this.
The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other
over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from
frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the
world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into a
losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why the
loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for
emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone
other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had
performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason as
to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its simplicity,
it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own mistakes, so the
term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put into a losing
situation they themselves dont know how to get out of.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok Kelo, but answer me this first: How come that ONLY the SRK.com community
have "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist and why everybody else still
keeps believing on it?? Are the rest of the players in the world moronic
scrubs or something?
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 01:23:2001 01:07 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I can answer this.
The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other
over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from
frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the
world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into
a losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why
the loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for
emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone
other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had
performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason
as to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its
simplicity, it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own
mistakes, so the term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put
into a losing situation they themselves dont know how to get out of.
I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the pshycology lesson ... I'll think
twice before calling someone cheap.
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/Dantaunt2.gif It seems that nowadays
people only win when they knock other people down. I suppose that's why I'm such
a loser. Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:23:2001 02:12 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I can answer this.
The human ego is never ending. Through out history we have fought each other
over our own ideas about how things should be done. These ideas come from
frustration when bieng put in a losing situation. Such is why so many in the
world came up with the word "cheap" when dealing with fighters. When put into
a losing situation %90 of the human race will come up with an excuse as to why
the loss accurd. However, just as the human mind will not put itself down for
emotional protection, it blames another source, tagging all anger into someone
other than yourself. In the fighting game community, someone down the line had
performed such a natural human error, and came up with a word for the reason
as to why they would be losing. Thus "cheap" was born. Becuase of its
simplicity, it was an easy place to put the blame for other peoples own
mistakes, so the term caught on, and now everybody has a word to use when put
into a losing situation they themselves dont know how to get out of.
Nice!!!!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:23:2001 03:08 AM:
Bah, it's like going back to the first page of this thread.
ImMature: Well, I think boss would say it's Geese who's controlling Yojimbo so
we can spread his word.
The rest of the guys: See, a guy recently asked us for some cheap techniques in
a KoF board and I gave him some good tricks. Now, does that mean I can play
cheap? Yes. Why would someone learn something cheap? Because it's in the game
and can be used against you. Does it mean you know how to counter? Absolutely
yes. Now, if it's in the game and can be counter, why call it cheap? Because it
takes little effort and gives you a big reward, so even if you know how to
counter, cheap is cheap.
Now Kamui, that was a bunch of bleh, mental tricks don't work on me (unless they
come from boss). To be serious, defeat is defeat and I don't need to give it
another name nor blame my opponent.
Kelomaniac:
"Lot's of peeps here face all the stuff that you say is cheap, they learn to
play with it and against it, so they have a oppend mind to why is not cheap!
People that don't face this thing un a regular basic and dosen't know how to
face it or do it, will always think it's cheap!"
Nah, they only learned to play with it, that's why they deny the existance of
cheapness (or they should recognize they're either scrubs or cheapos for playing
that way). If you read all the thread, you would get that we mentioned many
times it's not a matter of "not being able to beat a pattern". "Believing in
cheapness" doesn't mean "whinning when losing", it's accepting that certain
patterns require a very small skill and trying to improve yourself without
getting stuck in those paterns.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:23:2001 04:57 AM:
I'll try to explain why a lot of people have problems with the word "cheap"
(including myself). I'm not going to say that ImMature and O.Ryoga are wrong in
their definition of cheap, I'm just going to give some of my personal
experiences.
I think the main reason the word cheap has such a bad reputation is because in
most situations in which it is used (at least in my experience), it is yelled by
a person who just lost badly to the assumed "cheapo" (this has happened to me a
few times, and I brush it off). Now granted, I know several people who use this
term, and they win their fair share. They use it in the same way that our SNK
friends here do. However, the majority of the time I hear the word, it is coming
from a hysterical person who just got his ass handed to him. Thus I associated
the term with a type of whining and making up excuses for losing (mind you that
this is my association, and not necessarily the given). Which is why I don't
like the word. I have a feeling that several other participants on the board
here probably had a similar experience.
Anyway, that's my two cents. You don't have to take it to heart if you don't
want to, it's just my opinion.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by ImMature on 01:23:2001 07:21 AM:
To Kelomaniac & Kamui: So to put it simply (according to you 2), HELL YEAH, THE
REST OF THE PLAYERS ON THIS WORLD ARE JUST MORONIC LOSERS/SCRUBS *INDEED*. And
not only that, they're not even able to realize that they are, so they have no
choice but to make up weird excuses about it, thus Cheapness was born. Well now
let's think about this for a moment. Belief in Cheapness does exists worldwide
among fighters players, and this is a fact. Hell, just look at Ryoga and me, for
example. Do you think we are from the same area? We don't even live in the same
CONTINENT. How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here haven't
"discovered" that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet? How come that if you
go to other fighers-related forums (eg Yasakani's, Gunsmith's, (gasp!)
Vincent's, MadMan's, Shingo's, hell I'm registered even at Guardimpact although
I don't really like Soul Calibur), you WON'T find people spreading that Supreme
Truth?? BTW in most of these boards I'm talking about you do find posters from a
lot of different areas in the world (unlike here at SRK.com, where about a 90%
of the posters are from USA). If all those people (and I'm talking about a
bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be good and experienced players among them)
haven't realized it yet, I'll ask you again, how come you SRK.com guys are THE
ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover such a "fact"??
Additionaly Kamui, I remember you posting about some Singaporean at Vincent's
wielding the same argument. You called him "a smart one". You must think that
the rest of the KOF comunity are just morons or something then...
To Beast of Fire: Ok I hear you man. BTW, do you know what do I associate the
"lack of belief in Cheapness" with? With the belief in the infallibility of
programmers like myself. As long as flaws exist in ANY software, Cheapness does
and will always exist IMHO, cause programmers are human beings too and not gods.
Something pretty funny I've heard here at SRK.com, "If it is in the game is
meant to be used". Sheah right, sure, and the same with any complex software.
Now if anyone here has an old version of the Win NT 4.0 OS installed in his PC
just perform a search for a file called "roll.exe" and execute it. Fear not,
it'll "only" thrash his Windows registry and hence his whole operating system,
so he'll hafta reinstall it again. Hey but Micro$oft did put that program there,
so what's the problem then?? No, we programmers do NOT make any mistakes...
To Ryoga: Heh it's gonna be real funny when the co-workers of this O. Rugal
cheapo we helped finally discover how to unlock the secret chars in '99 DM...
Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 09:28 AM:
"How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here haven't "discovered"
that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet?"
Becuase its easier to have something to blame for your own weaknesses. Its the
human thing to do ofcourse. My belief is the human race is stubborn and
irrational, so mental safe guards as simple as something to blame are easier
than blaming yourself, which can ether lead to self improvement or depression. I
would deffinatly know as i acted exactly like you did 2 years ago.
"If all those people (and I'm talking about a bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be
good and experienced players among them"
First off the few truly experienced players i have talked too do believe very
much that you should do everything in your power to win thats within the already
set rules of the game. This has been explained by many good KOF players as well.
Second, even if they are good players, that deosnt mean there not irrational.
They probably have been beaten by cheese earlier in there fighting game career
and have already came up with there own very common conclusion that everybody
else losing does, nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic
tactics.
"THE ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover such a "fact"??"
I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting at Orochinagi.com, cuase
they dont. Theres nobody remotely well known posting on the site that would have
enough knowledge of the game to know whats right and wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
To Kelomaniac & Kamui: So to put it simply (according to you 2), HELL YEAH,
THE REST OF THE PLAYERS ON THIS WORLD ARE JUST MORONIC LOSERS/SCRUBS *INDEED*.
And not only that, they're not even able to realize that they are, so they
have no choice but to make up weird excuses about it, thus Cheapness was born.
Well now let's think about this for a moment. Belief in Cheapness does exists
worldwide among fighters players, and this is a fact. Hell, just look at Ryoga
and me, for example. Do you think we are from the same area? We don't even
live in the
same CONTINENT. How come neither we 2 or our fellow gamers there and here
haven't "discovered" that Supreme Truth you keep talking about yet? How come
that if you go to other fighers-related forums (eg Yasakani's, Gunsmith's,
(gasp!) Vincent's, MadMan's, Shingo's, hell I'm registered even at Guardimpact
although I don't really like Soul Calibur), you WON'T find people spreading
that Supreme Truth?? BTW in most of these boards I'm talking about you do find
posters from a lot of different areas in the world (unlike here at SRK.com,
where about a 90% of the posters are from USA). If all those people (and I'm
talking about a bloody LOT of people, it HAS to be good and experienced
players among them) haven't realized it yet, I'll ask you again, how come you
SRK.com guys are THE ONLY ONES IN THE WORLD intelligent enough to discover
such a "fact"??
Additionaly Kamui, I remember you posting about some Singaporean at Vincent's
wielding the same argument. You called him "a smart one". You must think that
the rest of the KOF comunity are just morons or something then...
To Beast of Fire: Ok I hear you man. BTW, do you know what do I associate the
"lack of belief in Cheapness" with? With the belief in the infallibility of
programmers like myself. As long as flaws exist in ANY software, Cheapness
does and will always exist IMHO, cause programmers are human beings too and
not gods. Something pretty funny I've heard here at SRK.com, "If it is in the
game is meant to be used". Sheah right, sure, and the same with any complex
software. Now if anyone here has an old version of the Win NT 4.0 OS installed
in his PC just perform a search for a file called "roll.exe" and execute it.
Fear not, it'll "only" thrash his Windows registry and hence his whole
operating system, so he'll hafta reinstall it again. Hey but Micro$oft did put
that program there, so what's the problem then?? No, we programmers do NOT
make any mistakes...
To Ryoga: Heh it's gonna be real funny when the co-workers of this O. Rugal
cheapo we helped finally discover how to unlock the secret chars in '99 DM...
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:23:2001 10:03 PM:
Kamui:
"Becuase its easier to have..."
Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world and
they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said.
"nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics"
Nope, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason why people call certain
things cheap. Read my prior post.
"I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting"
See:
Nmber one: Tourneys are generally held in Asia.
Nmber two: no one makes a big fuzz about tourneys.
Nmber three: not everyone in Asia speaks in English nor cares about talking to
foreigners.
Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those
countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks
"cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier
players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom
community with luck).
ImMature: Hell, it will be funny whenever he faces O.Rugal.
Posted by Kamui on 01:23:2001 10:16 PM:
"Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world
and they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said."
Bleh? You completely ignored what i said. It deosnt matter if there top players
or not, there human, and humans like to use excuses to prtect there emotions.
'nuff said :/
"Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those
countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks
"cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier
players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom
community with luck)."
Only SRK people? Talk to the japanese, they will tell you the same thing i am,
and we all know the japanese own at both SF and KOF.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Kamui:
"Becuase its easier to have..."
Still bleh. You see, Hong Kong has some of the best KoF players in the world
and they believe in cheapness. 'nuff said.
"nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic tactics"
Nope, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason why people call certain
things cheap. Read my prior post.
"I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting"
See:
Nmber one: Tourneys are generally held in Asia.
Nmber two: no one makes a big fuzz about tourneys.
Nmber three: not everyone in Asia speaks in English nor cares about talking to
foreigners.
Even though it's very known which are the rules that are being used in those
countries where the best players live. Whereas, only SRK people thinks
"cheapness" doesn't exist and make that big fuzz about tourneys and top tier
players when they don't even represent the Capcom community (the US Capcom
community with luck).
ImMature: Hell, it will be funny whenever he faces O.Rugal.
Posted by ImMature on 01:23:2001 11:50 PM:
Ok Kamui, and now the REVERSAL for I was expecting something like this, y'know?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Becuase its easier to have something to blame for your own weaknesses. Its the
human thing to do ofcourse.
Of course it is. But still, you haven't answered my question yet: WHY THE
SRK.COM POSTERS ARE *NOT* LIKE THIS?? It's like, are you guys Xmen: Children of
the Atom or something and therefore not part of the human race but "Homo
Superiors" instead? This is what I wanna know
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I would deffinatly know as i acted exactly like you did 2 years ago.
Uh I din't get what you mean. Care to ellaborate?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
First off the few truly experienced players i have talked too do believe very
much that you should do everything in your power to win thats within the
already set rules of the game. This has been explained by many good KOF
players as well.
First off, I've ALREADY pointed that out several times and it in itself has
NOTHING to do with the non-existance of Cheapness. You hafta do everything that
it takes in order to win (and this not necessarily implies being cheap), all
right everybody agrees on this. But how do you come to the conclussion that this
implies that Cheapness doesn't exist??
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Second, even if they are good players, that deosnt mean there not irrational.
They probably have been beaten by cheese earlier in there fighting game career
and have already came up with there own very common conclusion that everybody
else losing does, nobody likes to admit defeat at the hands of simplistic
tactics.
Second, and I repeat, pretty much unlike this pathetic bunch of humans we are,
you SRK.com super-race of SFers have came to a different conclussion by means of
divine Revelation or something. Glory to you dudes
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I dont remember top TOURNEY WINNING KOF players posting at Orochinagi.com,
cuase they dont.
So? The Japanese & HKese KOFer do have their own bbs. Are you saying perhaps
that ONLY tourney winners have the possibility to understand fighters and that
the rest of the players have to believe what they say without hessitation?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Theres nobody remotely well known posting on the site that would have enough
knowledge of the game to know whats right and wrong.
Frankly Kamui, I don't think you yourself have enough knowledge of KOF to
deserve to judge such a thing. There are people at ON.com who know KOF inside
and out, in case you haven't noticed yet...
---
Conclussion: There is something funnier than to play videogames; to amuse you
fellow KOFers at your local arcade telling how a bunch of American dudes have
discovered that EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong. You can even rebuke all cheapos there
telling 'em things like "Oh dude shut up; You don't even exist". Plus if you
have the luck to know people in Real Life whose line of thinking is pretty much
like Yojimbo's, you better go & mention several times that you read all this in
a CAPCOM bbs, for even more comical effect...
Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 12:43 AM:
"Of course it is. But still, you haven't answered my question yet: WHY THE
SRK.COM POSTERS ARE *NOT* LIKE THIS?? It's like, are you guys Xmen: Children of
the Atom or something and therefore not part of the human race but "Homo
Superiors" instead? This is what I wanna know"
Aahhh...ok. Well first off as you have noticed a good portion of the people of
this forum worship anything the more popular players have to say. Seth Killian
bieng one of these players is popular, but his attitude stinks, thus a lot of
people dont like him as much as you think they do. However, fact is he has
brought up a few good points and when somebody gives you a good well thought out
answer as to why you may be wrong, you tend to listen, and eventually it sinks
in and makes sense. Frankly he makes a lot of sense. This is why most people at
SRK think alike, Seth's post probably. I myself came to believe the way i do
after being beaten by a friend enough times by his sapposedly cheap tactics(Mark
Rygoyski). My thought process was just like you and Ryoga's, so i thought he was
a scrub, even though he was beating me. I happen to enter a small(and
crappy)tourney, Mark was there, i eventually had to play against Mark, and i won
the first time around. However later in that tourney he had come back from his
loss and and made his way to play me again in the finals. He won, he threw me
too death, i ate every one. After his loss he began to realize what he had to do
to beat me. He knew my weakness after the first game, he saw exactly what i
would be weak to and he exploited it to its fullest. It showed that in the end,
as simple as the tactic was, i wasnt prepared for it, and he knew, and i got
owned. I realized how much of a better player than me he really was, something
as simple as him adapting was good enough for me. Thats when my "SRK" thought
process began for myself.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok Kamui, and now the REVERSAL for I was expecting something like this,
y'know?
Frankly Kamui, I don't think you yourself have enough knowledge of KOF to
deserve to judge such a thing. There are people at ON.com who know KOF inside
and out, in case you haven't noticed yet...
---
Conclussion: There is something funnier than to play videogames; to amuse you
fellow KOFers at your local arcade telling how a bunch of American dudes have
discovered that EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong. You can even rebuke all cheapos there
telling 'em things like "Oh dude shut up; You don't even exist". Plus if you
have the luck to know people in Real Life whose line of thinking is pretty
much like Yojimbo's, you better go & mention several times that you read all
this in a CAPCOM bbs, for even more comical effect...
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 04:44 AM:
Heh, this is becoming less funny as I'm repeating myself to boreness, but I will
keep doing so.
I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than
ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You
see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so
it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P
"Only SRK people?"
Yeap, only SRK people. I've never seen a jap talking about that (and I don't
think you did that either). Even though Hong Kong people do believe it. Now what
are they just a bunch of whinning scrubs? Did they became one of the strongest
countries in a difficult game as KoF just by crying cheap? Guess again pal, they
just learned what was cheap, trained to overcome it and the learned new
techniques. On the other hand people at SRK learned what was cheap and trained
to rely on it 'cause if it's working, why bother learning something else?
"fact is he has brought up a few good points"
Nah, he just pushes the opponents to the scrub side so his word reigns supreme.
"threw me too death, and i ate every one."
Some people is just practical, that technique was cheap but it worked on you.
Now that meant that you sucked at that match and didn't have a good level by
that time. Plain and simple as that. He was cheap and effective, but his
effectiveness doesn't reduce the cheap factor.
BTW, you're skipping ImMature's best points which I think is crap.
Posted by OrangeCat on 01:24:2001 06:42 AM:
H there guys, me again. The guy who posted the list of cheapness? Well I am here
to enact my semi promise and hope to refine my list of cheapness. Oh yeah to
ImMature who did "snip the rest of sarcastic remark, really to some degree it
wasn't sarcastic. Also in a sense I did meant what I did say, but also after
learning that the rest of the world hasn't heard/believe in said article, that
to keep a more open mind. In this case I want to create a "Cheapness" list that
is either
A) Suited for both ways of the road, a list that "scrubs" *according to SRK
people who believe in the article* who cry out things that are cheap....and a
"True" list of cheapness that should be avoided at all cost by any player.
B) Two lists, just in case neither of ye can agree on what consistutes as
cheap...or cries from SRK type scrubs.
I am somewhat serious about this project since the big topic of cheapness is a
large and diverse one, someobdy should really draw the line, as of now, on what
is/isn't cheap.
All people are welcome to contribute, if anyone wants to see the list, it is in
either "Dumb SNK Lemmings" *semi revised to constitue SNK characters, very
poorly I might add* or the topic "Honor among scrubs" or something to that
degree.
Gumpskily, what I expect is not really the definition of cheap, but more of
specific techniques, moves, characters, and certain characteristics of other
games that can add to said list.
Orange Cat
[This message has been edited by OrangeCat (edited 01-23-2001).]
Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 07:03 AM:
"I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than
ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You
see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so
it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P"
Ugh, well i just tried to post a very long answer twice and both times the were
somehow deleted, so in short, yes it has everything to do with someone blamming
a lost on others as it is the root of your anger towards "Cheapness",
guaranteed, not becuase the person deosnt fit YOUR deffinition of a good player.
And cheapness does exist, but not in the form your thinking of. TRUE cheapness
isnt used by players. Ive never seen anybody using a TRUE boss character, or
using a glitch to gain a win, have you? If you have then there must be better
players in my area than in yours.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Heh, this is becoming less funny as I'm repeating myself to boreness, but I
will keep doing so.
I didn't ignored what you said, you're right that we blame others rather than
ourselves. But what does it have to do with the existance of cheapnesss? You
see, as I said not only a winner can be cheap, but a looser can be as well, so
it has nothing to do with blamming a lost match on others. 'nuff said :P
"Only SRK people?"
Yeap, only SRK people. I've never seen a jap talking about that (and I don't
think you did that either). Even though Hong Kong people do believe it. Now
what are they just a bunch of whinning scrubs? Did they became one of the
strongest countries in a difficult game as KoF just by crying cheap? Guess
again pal, they just learned what was cheap, trained to overcome it and the
learned new techniques. On the other hand people at SRK learned what was cheap
and trained to rely on it 'cause if it's working, why bother learning
something else?
"fact is he has brought up a few good points"
Nah, he just pushes the opponents to the scrub side so his word reigns
supreme.
"threw me too death, and i ate every one."
Some people is just practical, that technique was cheap but it worked on you.
Now that meant that you sucked at that match and didn't have a good level by
that time. Plain and simple as that. He was cheap and effective, but his
effectiveness doesn't reduce the cheap factor.
BTW, you're skipping ImMature's best points which I think is crap.
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-23-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 01:24:2001 08:07 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by OrangeCat:
Oh yeah to ImMature who did "snip the rest of sarcastic remark, really to some
degree it wasn't sarcastic.
Dude if I didn't fall for it the 1st time, what makes you think I'm gonna buy it
now?
quote:
Originally posted by OrangeCat:
A) Suited for both ways of the road, a list that "scrubs" *according to SRK
people who believe in the article* who cry out things that are cheap....
A list of things scrubs may base their excuses on when losing? Just EVERYTHING.
That's why, unless you're a sociology major or something, you shouldn't really
care that much about scrubs
quote:
Originally posted by OrangeCat:
and a "True" list of cheapness that should be avoided at all cost by any
player.
Avoided at all cost? Why, if a body wanna (or NEEDS to) play cheaply, it's his
personal choice. Oh well, if you're really serious on this (which I doubt) go
back to the Dumb SNK Lemmings thread and look for my post about what I consider
to be cheap in KOF. And I'll be expecting a good parody of it on the next days
BTW
Posted by ImMature on 01:24:2001 08:35 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Frankly he makes a lot of sense. This is why most people at SRK think alike,
Seth's post probably.
Ok so I hope this answers Kelo's question on why I keep bringing up Seth. BTW
Seth seems to be a pretty smart person, no doubt about it, even though if I
strongly disagree with his views
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I myself came to believe the way i do after being beaten by a friend enough
times by his sapposedly cheap tactics(Mark Rygoyski). My thought process was
just like you and Ryoga's, so i thought he was a scrub, even though he was
beating me. I happen to enter a small(and crappy)tourney, Mark was there, i
eventually had to play against Mark, and i won the first time around. However
later in that tourney he had come back from his loss and and made his way to
play me again in the finals. He won, he threw me too death, i ate every one.
After his loss he began to realize what he had to do to beat me. He knew my
weakness after the first game, he saw exactly what i would be weak to and he
exploited it to its fullest. It showed that in the end, as simple as the
tactic was, i wasnt prepared for it, and he knew, and i got owned. I realized
how much of a better player than me he really was, something as simple as him
adapting was good enough for me. Thats when my "SRK" thought process began for
myself.
What exactly did you learn from that?
a) That you have to adapt yourself so you won't get beat by the same tactic over
& over again (which is certainly true)
b) That cheap patterns may beat players who don't know how to counter/escape
from 'em (which is true again)
c) That the one who wins the match is the best player of the 2 INDEED (which
then again, it's true as well)
And what does any of these things has to do with the existance or not of
Cheapness? Care to explain?
Posted by Kamui on 01:24:2001 09:54 AM:
Again, i was only showing the state of mind your in right now, which I used to
be in, and the fact that you think everybody on SRK thinks they way they becuase
of Seth even though thats not how my belief gained weight.
Ugh, i dont care about the existance of cheapness, YOUR deffinition of what is
cheap is what bothers me. It does exist, but not in the same sense your thinking
of. Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play
yourself. I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its
obvious if they play like so you think there cheap correct?
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
What exactly did you learn from that?
a) That you have to adapt yourself so you won't get beat by the same tactic
over & over again (which is certainly true)
b) That cheap patterns may beat players who don't know how to counter/escape
from 'em (which is true again)
c) That the one who wins the match is the best player of the 2 INDEED (which
then again, it's true as well)
And what does any of these things has to do with the existance or not of
Cheapness? Care to explain?
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 05:58 PM:
Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that
(even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will
think you're talking seriously).
Kamui:
"yes it has everything to do with someone blamming a lost on others"
Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top
Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick
your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame
someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond
winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back up
with something better.
"have you?"
Yes.
"If you have then there must be better players in my area than in yours."
Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one
uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I
was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in
their teams.
"i dont care about the existance of cheapness"
Errrmmm...then what are we discussing about?
"Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play
yourself."
If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience
playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same,
but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to me.
If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to
use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle
(rendering Yuri useless).
"I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its obvious
if they play like so you think there cheap correct?"
Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe)
distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in all
suicidal attack.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:24:2001 08:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how
to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle
(rendering Yuri useless).
Well, I don't play CvS much, but I think EX Yuri is just outmatched against Kim,
and I don't think there was much Chen could do.
Yuri can't poke on the ground, because Kim's sweep reaches farther than hers. I
think this especially hurts her, because she relies on doing a lot of blocked
sweep into air fireball.
She can't jump, because Kim's Down Fierce will kick her out of it (Valle used
that kick to knock Chen out of the air a lot).
The rest of Yuri's special moves are useless for offense (what does she have,
that running blockable grab and that reflection thing?). All Yuri can do against
Kim is waste time and charge meter, I guess.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:24:2001 09:02 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ej_333:
Well, I don't play CvS much, but I think EX Yuri is just outmatched against
Kim, and I don't think there was much Chen could do.
Yuri can't poke on the ground, because Kim's sweep reaches farther than hers.
I think this especially hurts her, because she relies on doing a lot of
blocked sweep into air fireball.
She can't jump, because Kim's Down Fierce will kick her out of it (Valle used
that kick to knock Chen out of the air a lot).
The rest of Yuri's special moves are useless for offense (what does she have,
that running blockable grab and that reflection thing?). All Yuri can do
against Kim is waste time and charge meter, I guess.
Yuri can be outmatched easily if you try to beat Kim in a close combat. Yuri
will never beat Kim in the kicking department and certainly won't land a jump in
kick on him. An Ex-Yuri player should roll over the place in an attempt to knock
Kim off and then gain space between them to take advantage of her long range
capabilities. Chen played all the time at a close range and when he got some
space between him and Valle, he wasted it with either a jump in kick or a
downward fireball that renders Yuri open to anything.
The main technique with Ex-Yuri is making some space between her and the other
character and then throw a fireball (the normal one) to force the opponent to o
a move that will leave him open to Yuri's remaining attacks.
Posted by SithKilla on 01:25:2001 12:24 AM:
the moderator needs to cut the second half of these posts and start from like
page 2
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:25:2001 12:35 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
the moderator needs to cut the second half of these posts and start from like
page 2
Heh, that's a classical whinning in BBSs. When you have been proven wrong on a
discussion, you call a moderator to either delete or lock the thread. Which is
very gay.
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of
nothingness and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of
anything else.
Excuses.
This is a discussion about "cheapness" not about excuses. If you can't get it,
then you should read the thread (at least once). Now, if after reading the
thread you still don't get it, then I'll have to give you the sad news that
you're a retard.
Posted by ej_333 on 01:25:2001 02:08 AM:
I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a lot
of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim seemed to
just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from there. And why
would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls like he does
to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them.
I don't know much about CvS tactics (I barely play the game), but Chen seems to
use Yuri pretty well. His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a
bad matchup. You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Yuri can be outmatched easily if you try to beat Kim in a close combat. Yuri
will never beat Kim in the kicking department and certainly won't land a jump
in kick on him. An Ex-Yuri player should roll over the place in an attempt to
knock Kim off and then gain space between them to take advantage of her long
range capabilities. Chen played all the time at a close range and when he got
some space between him and Valle, he wasted it with either a jump in kick or a
downward fireball that renders Yuri open to anything.
The main technique with Ex-Yuri is making some space between her and the other
character and then throw a fireball (the normal one) to force the opponent to
o a move that will leave him open to Yuri's remaining attacks.
Posted by Kamui on 01:25:2001 02:52 AM:
"Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top
Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick
your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame
someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond
winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back up
with something better."
Oh i read the entire thread, your just missing the point. It deosnt matter if
there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life they lost to someone
bieng cheap(everyone does at least once), hence the reason why they complain
about it today. Not becuase of this great honor you talk about. Dramatic
experiences stick with you :P
You mention players that dont lose too cheapness still complain about it, even
though they can beat it easily. MANY MANY MANY people think Joe is a cheap
striker. Many player refuse to use him with this ideal of "honor" floating
around in there heads. If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they
complain about him? Theres just no reason to complain about cheapness unless
your losing to it, or lost to it. As a striker it automatically balances self
out with the loss of striker bombs, your gonna blow every bomb doing 1 combo on
1 person with Joe. Yet, people are still whining about him even today....It
seems like these players you talk about are mad not becuase of the lack of
skilled play but the lack people playing the way they want them too. Nobody is
aloud to be original anymore...
"Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one
uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I
was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in
their teams."
Ummm...Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general? Whats the
difference? I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that....It
probably wasnt even in a tourny situation. Oh but wait, your players have no
trouble beating Rugal right? Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any
trouble beating him???
"If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience
playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same,
but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to me.
If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know how to
use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on Valle
(rendering Yuri useless)."
Do you not see the difference in skill level here? Ex Yuri cant win at a close
range, so Valle stayed close. Valle is apparently the perfect zoner, and
although you dont see it as skill(apparently to you a combo is, which BTW there
isnt a combo known to man i COULDNT do, but i cant zone worth a shit)there is a
lot of timing and thought that goes into that foot work that Valle uses.
"Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe)
distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in all
suicidal attack"
Than whats the problem with it?
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that
(even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will
think you're talking seriously).
Kamui:
"yes it has everything to do with someone blamming a lost on others"
Yawwwwnnn, you didn't read the entire thread, did you? See (again) that Top
Players in Hong Kong believe that some moves are cheap and they still can kick
your ass in no time (no matter what cheap technique you use). So do they blame
someone? No. Do they loose? Nope. Does that mean that cheapness exists beyond
winning and losing? Certainly. Now, don't come back with ASSumptions and back
up with something better.
"have you?"
Yes.
"If you have then there must be better players in my area than in yours."
Nope, most people in my area doesn't play cheap, but that doesn't mean no one
uses cheap characters. Back to the KoF'95 times, I didn't know what KoF was (I
was a bit outside arcades) but I remember seeing people using Omega Rugal in
their teams.
"i dont care about the existance of cheapness"
Errrmmm...then what are we discussing about?
"Your deffinition of what a good player is a reflection of the way you play
yourself."
If you ask me, my definition of a good player is based on personal experience
playing games and seeing how the best players do it. I think you do the same,
but your best players seem to use a bunch of tactics that look a bit odd to
me. If you see that match between Chen and Valle, you'll see Chen didn't know
how to use Yuri effectively, as the so called fireball trap didn't work on
Valle (rendering Yuri useless).
"I remember you mentioning not sapporting turtle tactics at all, so its
obvious if they play like so you think there cheap correct?"
Most turtles do a repetitive pattern from a safe (or what they think is safe)
distance and that's it. Of course, no one is asking you to go into an all in
all suicidal attack.
Posted by OrangeCat on 01:25:2001 04:03 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
[B]Orangecat: Yawwwnn, only Dasrik and friends would fall for a joke like that
(even if you say something completely incoherent as an obvious joke, they will
think you're talking seriously).
[B]
Actually I am serious. It's just that there is all this idea of debating of
whether cheapness exists or not that there isn't a definative reference to it.
Might as well help out not only the KOF or Capcom communities but the whole of
the fighter community. Of course if you decide not to, I understand. You have a
privelage not to trust me at all and I'm not gonna go dilly dally for someone
who has that right to get to trust me.
Hey who knows, maybe once I get some kinda list up, that can prove to you how
serious I am about it. Well good debating and have a nice day.
Orange Cat
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:25:2001 06:23 PM:
ej_333:
"I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a
lot of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim seemed
to just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from there."
Yup, he got himself cornered where Yuri has no chance. And of course, Valle did
the right thing as Kim is a close range character while Ex-Yuri is a long range
one.
"And why would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls like
he does to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them."
It depends on when Chen rolls. You may have to eat a bit of pressure to find the
right spot, but trying to fight at that range was suicidal. And even though Chen
knew Ex-Yuri was useless, he chosen her like three times to pit against Valle's
Kim (that was ridiculous).
"Chen seems to use Yuri pretty well"
Hmmm, maybe he can use the character better under no tournament pressure, but I
don't know, I don't know anything about him beyond those matches and I surely
don't know what he was thinking during that match.
"His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a bad matchup."
Sure one can beat lots of people with a character like Yuri, but he failed
strategically during that match.
"You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion."
Of course it is, I forgot to mark it was my personal opinion.
"It deosnt matter if there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life they
lost to someone bieng cheap"
Maybe that happened to some of them, but there shouldn't be a problem right now,
even though they stick to that rule 'cause they know if they start using it they
may become dependant and loose their ability. Besides, some people just took
those rules 'cause those were the rules in their arcades when they started
playing.
"If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they complain about him?"
Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter a
round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that
crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing
the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD
(two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles +
button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think
that is high level gameplay.
"Nobody is aloud to be original anymore..."
Tell me what is the original thing with that. Now if you use Joe for other
purpouses than infinites, then props to you.
"Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general?"
What I meant was that most people don't use cheap tactics or characters, but
that doesn't mean nobody does, so you see cheapness.
"I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that"
They do, you're just ASSuming based in your own missunderstanding.
"It probably wasnt even in a tourny situation."
I guess most of us give a fuck about tourneys, one knows where competition is
and people play with all they have every time.
"Oh but wait, your players have no trouble beating Rugal right?"
Point 1, I stated it was the KoF'95 days (you know KoF'95 happened in 1995,
right?), Point 2 I don't know about the level those days and finally Point 3 I
never said they played and succeeded.
"Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any trouble beating him???"
You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an
insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has a
big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap, no
matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone mentioned
that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I think)was
banned from some tournaments, why would that happen?
"and although you dont see it as skill"
Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle
did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that btw,
happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied with this
all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance.
"Than whats the problem with it?"
The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing else)
is something that bores people to death and require little ability.
Posted by Kamui on 01:25:2001 07:33 PM:
"Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter a
round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that
crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing
the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD
(two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles +
button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think
that is high level gameplay."
UGH, IT IS NOT A GLITCH. Look up the definition of a glitch PLEASE. From the
connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or
something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING.
Its funny, You can tell who the more experienced players are on orochinagi.com
as the ones who dont mind people using Joe understand what you do lose for using
him, you only have so many striker bombs.......Theres an obvious balance, to
using him, but all the scrubs see is his apparant "cheapness".
"You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an
insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has a
big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap, no
matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone mentioned
that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I think)was
banned from some tournaments, why would that happen?"
See thats the thing i understand hes an overbearing character, but, you
mentioned the players in your area bieng able to beat cheapness, but still be
able comment on how they play, yet, Rugal is still considered cheap even though
they have no trouble beatng him....Now its been my experience that good players
have to be beaten continously to thus see how effective a character like Rugal
is to know why and when he started bieng cheap....
"Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle
did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that btw,
happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied with this
all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance."
No instead you said something along the lines of"i wouldnt call it skilled play"
and "if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh", which means the same
thing. Dont remember? Go check your posts in the "Dumb SNK lemmings thread"....
"The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing else)
is something that bores people to death and require little ability."
Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately....In any case, im sure
you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct? The guy
who won the tourney played a turtle K' and Kula. Seems like he was OWNING
everybody there with such "unskilled" tactics.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
ej_333:
"I don't remember the match's details well, but I do remember Chen spending a
lot of time being cornered. Chen couldn't get away from Kim, Valle's Kim
seemed to just kinda push him towards the corner, and pressure him from
there."
Yup, he got himself cornered where Yuri has no chance. And of course, Valle
did the right thing as Kim is a close range character while Ex-Yuri is a long
range one.
"And why would Chen roll towards Valle? I'm sure Valle would react to rolls
like he does to jumps. That is, he'd stuff them."
It depends on when Chen rolls. You may have to eat a bit of pressure to find
the right spot, but trying to fight at that range was suicidal. And even
though Chen knew Ex-Yuri was useless, he chosen her like three times to pit
against Valle's Kim (that was ridiculous).
"Chen seems to use Yuri pretty well"
Hmmm, maybe he can use the character better under no tournament pressure, but
I don't know, I don't know anything about him beyond those matches and I
surely don't know what he was thinking during that match.
"His style of Yuri beat other chars soundly, but Kim was a bad matchup."
Sure one can beat lots of people with a character like Yuri, but he failed
strategically during that match.
"You may think Chen used Yuri wrong, but that's just your opinion."
Of course it is, I forgot to mark it was my personal opinion.
"It deosnt matter if there kicking peoples asses now, earlier in there life
they lost to someone bieng cheap"
Maybe that happened to some of them, but there shouldn't be a problem right
now, even though they stick to that rule 'cause they know if they start using
it they may become dependant and loose their ability. Besides, some people
just took those rules 'cause those were the rules in their arcades when they
started playing.
"If they dont have trouble beating Joe than why do they complain about him?"
Because it's a glitch and nobody likes that kind of crap. You see, if I enter
a round with enough striker bombs, I can CD you and then kill you, now is that
crap or what? Of course you can try an all in all attack to lock me preventing
the striker glitch. Now killing someone with that striker requires a landed CD
(two buttons) some striker calls (two buttons each), some quarter circles +
button, and at least one quarter circle X 2 + button. Don't tell me you think
that is high level gameplay.
"Nobody is aloud to be original anymore..."
Tell me what is the original thing with that. Now if you use Joe for other
purpouses than infinites, then props to you.
"Isnt using a cheap character playing cheap in general?"
What I meant was that most people don't use cheap tactics or characters, but
that doesn't mean nobody does, so you see cheapness.
"I thought the players in your area had more "honor" than that"
They do, you're just ASSuming based in your own missunderstanding.
"It probably wasnt even in a tourny situation."
I guess most of us give a fuck about tourneys, one knows where competition is
and people play with all they have every time.
"Oh but wait, your players have no trouble beating Rugal right?"
Point 1, I stated it was the KoF'95 days (you know KoF'95 happened in 1995,
right?), Point 2 I don't know about the level those days and finally Point 3 I
never said they played and succeeded.
"Then how can he be cheap if they dont have any trouble beating him???"
You see, one can beat Rugal, but he's still cheap, most of his moves take an
insane amount of energy and the ability to do them is quite small, he also has
a big priority on most of his moves, making him a tough Boss. Cheap is cheap,
no matter who uses it nor the results of using it. BTW, I think someone
mentioned that a version of Akuma (that was able to throw to air fireballs I
think)was banned from some tournaments, why would that happen?
"and although you dont see it as skill"
Did I say that? I think not, so don't put words in my mouth, thank you. Valle
did what he should, use Kim at the range that suites him (close range) that
btw, happened to be the oposite of Ex-Yuri (long range). I think I replied
with this all your questions about my thoughs on Valle's performance.
"Than whats the problem with it?"
The problem is that turtling (means overdefensive tactic only and nothing
else) is something that bores people to death and require little ability.
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-25-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 01:25:2001 09:35 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
UGH, IT IS NOT A GLITCH. Look up the definition of a glitch PLEASE. From the
connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on purpous or
something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING.
Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet but
anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember, I'm
no native English speaker)
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
See thats the thing i understand hes an overbearing character, but, you
mentioned the players in your area bieng able to beat cheapness, but still be
able comment on how they play, yet, Rugal is still considered cheap even
though they have no trouble beatng him....
Look Kamui, for the last time: What we're trying to say is that Cheapness does
exist, REGARDLESS of players getting owned by it or not. Let me explain myself
on this with one of my (retarded) analogies: Let's imagine someone comes & tells
you some BS. You either believe him or not (it's irrelevant). But still lying
does exist indeed, doesn't it? Regardless of if it worked on you or not...Sorry
but it's the best analogy I can think of at the moment (which it's very pathetic
of me in itself, I'll give you that)
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately....In any case, im sure
you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white tower correct? The
guy who won the tourney played a turtle K' and Kula. Seems like he was OWNING
everybody there with such "unskilled" tactics.
Can you please post where can I download those videos (and the Valle vs Chen
ones) from? I haven't seen 'em yet
Posted by Gamer X on 01:26:2001 01:52 AM:
Here we go with the dumb ass topic of "Cheapness" again. Does it exist? Maybe,
depends on who you ask. Do I think it exist? Of course. I have use cheap combos,
took advantage of bugs in the game (I love using the Gambit glich and let the
time run out). If you listen to some guy who has no life, is good at some old
Street Fighter game that nobody plays anymore and bases everthing on tournement
players and have the nerve to call everybody scrubs cause he wants some
attention than of course there is no such thing as cheapness. After all they are
just real good at being real lazy thats all. You can fuse and fight this issue
until your face turn blue and neither side is going to gain any ground on this
issue so all I have to say to this is read the quote.
Just play the damn game and quit cring.
Posted by Shingro on 01:26:2001 02:00 AM:
That's what I say though with a different tack... It's all about the actual
fight, if a robot could do your entire game... what's the point? Why'd you even
put the $.50 in in the first place?
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:26:2001 02:28 AM:
"From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on
purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING."
So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite
infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to
tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy.
"you only have so many striker bombs."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs.
"but still be able comment on how they play"
I don't need to play everyday against Rugal to remember his DP takes out between
60% nd 70% life bar. Guess I'm gifted with something called memory. Oh, and the
machine did that move on me the first time I got to play him.
"Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him"
How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort.
"Now its been my experience that good players have to be beaten continously to
thus see how effective a character like Rugal is to know why and when he started
bieng cheap"
Nope, just loose more than half lifebar against a single move that is not a
super and you will now a character is cheap (unless he has a move that is almost
imposible to perform).
"i wouldnt call it skilled play"
The repetition of basic moves isn't, which is what most people was commenting. I
didn't see the video by that time, but now I did (for ImMature, they are in the
multimedia section, don't use GoZilla or you won't be able to download them).
"if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh"
Nope, I was never that nationalistic. I may have said that that pattern wouldn't
work against the japs or something along those lines.
"Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately"
Nope, I haven't played a turtle for a long time.
"In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from white
tower correct?"
Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to tell
me where that tourney was being held?
Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 05:51 AM:
"So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite
infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to
tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy."
I thought you knew what you were talking about when it came to KOF, i guess i
was wrong. First off, Joe isnt the only character that picks them off the ground
Dong Hwan and a few others do it too. Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also,
and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while there
on the ground as normal hits wont do it(there was a ground throw bug,but thats a
totally different matter). It is impossible for it to be on accident, not when
the engine already includes them with VERY few attacks as is. They would have to
manually assign the properties to do it as the werent included in the KOF engine
normally(if it did all attack would hit them on the ground). It was not a flaw
in programming PERIOD.
"Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs."
Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF player
who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if they do it
while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and nail them. Go
ahead and taunt.
"How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort."
I know hes a "cheap" character, point is i dont think the players you talk about
are as good as you say as nobody complains when somethings not hurting them.
"Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to
tell me where that tourney was being held?"
Be my guest, go here: www.white-tower.net
Goto the tourney video section and download the bottom one(Kula) and the other
game with the K' i dont exactly remember which, just check all of them. It says
where the tourney was held on the site.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"From the connection properties you can deffinatly tell that it was ether on
purpous or something overlooked, but IT IS NOT A FLAW IN THE PROGRAMMING."
So you say that the ability to rise people from the floor enabling infinite
infinites (funny phrase) is not a programming bug? Please, now you're going to
tell me that the Windows blue screen doesn't appear because the OS is buggy.
"you only have so many striker bombs."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can regain striker bombs.
"but still be able comment on how they play"
I don't need to play everyday against Rugal to remember his DP takes out
between 60% nd 70% life bar. Guess I'm gifted with something called memory.
Oh, and the machine did that move on me the first time I got to play him.
"Rugal is still considered cheap even though they have no trouble beatng him"
How would you call him? He does a big damage with a low effort.
"Now its been my experience that good players have to be beaten continously to
thus see how effective a character like Rugal is to know why and when he
started bieng cheap"
Nope, just loose more than half lifebar against a single move that is not a
super and you will now a character is cheap (unless he has a move that is
almost imposible to perform).
"i wouldnt call it skilled play"
The repetition of basic moves isn't, which is what most people was commenting.
I didn't see the video by that time, but now I did (for ImMature, they are in
the multimedia section, don't use GoZilla or you won't be able to download
them).
"if someone from over here saw that hew would laugh"
Nope, I was never that nationalistic. I may have said that that pattern
wouldn't work against the japs or something along those lines.
"Hehehe, youve deffinatly been losing to turtles lately"
Nope, I haven't played a turtle for a long time.
"In any case, im sure you have downloaded or seen the tourney videos from
white tower correct?"
Wrong, I don't know what you're talking about, care to post a link? Care to
tell me where that tourney was being held?
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-25-2001).]
Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 06:06 AM:
"Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet but
anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember, I'm
no native English speaker)"
A bug is something the programmers missed, usually a combination of lines of
code that would usually rarely happen, becuase they didnt realize it could hurt
something if the combination, this usualy results in a: Glitch, which is the
actual affect from the bug.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Can you please post where can I download those videos (and the Valle vs Chen
ones) from? I haven't seen 'em yet
Posted by SummErs on 01:26:2001 08:51 AM:
Regarding Kof2000
When it first came out, I loved it...it was fast paced...the use of strikers at
any moment was exciting for me....
But I stopped playing the game when they discovered the first 'bug'(we assumed
it was a bug)
Then we realised it's no bug, cause every striker can do it....
Everybody was abusing it one way or the other...
it started with Joe as the cheap striker...then vanessa,
Then Seth as a striker was used as defensive play, meaning the guy waits for the
opponent to jump in, calls seth out the wham bam thank you seth.
And we found more ridiculous combos....
Was it cheap? We felt so!
But we then learnt how to not be 'hit' by the striker...
that was the main thing we learnt...
So, any cheap(depending on each's opinion) tactics or cheap combos can be
overcomed with the right thinking.
But a point many missed is, Yes, things such as this makes the game 'not fun'.
Posted by PK on 01:26:2001 10:14 AM:
cheap? nah... no such thing... for the longest time i faught with honor but was
just a South side thing... i think if you are slow enough (and sometimes dumb
enough) to get thrown then that is your fault. Infinites are hard to do and not
as easy as you say... and the honda/ryu trap: what the hell are you still doing
playing the SF2WW? man... they fixed it.. get over it.. i was battling a friend
at UH gameroom just the other day, i had him in a Vism, but didn't have enough
to beat him... so i followed a red fb and threw him... cheap? nah... i beat
him... strait up... he agrees... just deal with it... handle your business...
Posted by CykoClops on 01:26:2001 02:58 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
"Uh I won't enter the discussion about KOF 2K since I haven't played it yet
but anyways, isn't a glitch the same thing than a bug? Just curious (remember,
I'm no native English speaker)"
A bug is something the programmers missed, usually a combination of lines of
code that would usually rarely happen, becuase they didnt realize it could
hurt something if the combination, this usualy results in a: Glitch, which is
the actual affect from the bug.
yeah i don't see a difference between the two things so i guess a bug=glitch
http://home.iprimus.com.au/dittmanshum/cykoclops.gif
Posted by CykoClops on 01:26:2001 03:04 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Geese:
I like to play cheap and I do not mind cheapness. It is better than pretending
to be good and you are not, so I have to play cheap and bust you up to show
you how weak you are. (*^_^*)
hahahahaha
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:26:2001 05:06 PM:
"Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also"
Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs what
screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into every
possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if Dong
striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him), then
he's cheap, I don't see your point.
"and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while there
on the ground as normal hits wont do it"
Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that the
strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I mean, the
striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and the system
programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a small test, but
when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete program must work as a
whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working, then it's buggy.
"Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF player
who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if they do it
while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and nail them. Go
ahead and taunt."
After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully done.
And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we will
start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is, it can
be done.
"I know hes a "cheap" character"
Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character,
which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness.
"point is i dont think the players you talk about are as good as you say as
nobody complains when somethings not hurting them."
Huh, It must have hurted them the first couple of times they tried to beat the
machine, and a little common sense tells you it shouldn't be used to play
against other people. See, if we make a KoF world tourney and allow the usage of
boss characters, every team will use them and the winner will probably the one
that better uses that boss, turning the tourney into complete BS.
I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm
wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know.
Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites too.
BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are those
the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country.
Posted by kellomaniac on 01:26:2001 05:20 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ASSMASTERX:
Kelomaniac drinks dog shit straight from his mom's rectum with a fuckin straw.
The ONLY TRUE definition of cheap IS THE QUALITY OF YOUR MOTHER'S BLOWJOBS.
What the fuck does she charge the $0.25 for? WHAT A RIP OFF. Oh, and YOU SMELL
LIKE FARTS, STINKY WHITE GUY.
PS HAVE A NICE DAY, WITH YOUR MOM'S DICK IN YOUR ASS!
LOL!
Posted by TECHNO on 01:26:2001 11:07 PM:
...Well, if the so called "cheat", "glitch" or "infinite" is accessable to both
players I don't consider it to be cheap. BUT, it makes the game IMO very UN-fun
when you're spending money to play in the arcades. Thank God for home systems.
"Do you hear that Mr.Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability"
-The Sentinel-
Posted by Kamui on 01:26:2001 11:47 PM:
"Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs what
screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into every
possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if Dong
striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him), then
he's cheap, I don't see your point."
Oh so we have added another cheap striker to the list eh? How many more will you
add in the comming months? BTW, half the strikers in the game can pick you up
off the ground in one situation or another, its no bug. If the programming teams
at SNK were as ignorant as to miss something so simple than the company you love
so much is the worst team of programmers to ever grace the industry. I dont know
why im suprised, the have done nothing about infinites that were possible 6 KOF
games ago. Im still quite positive it was purposly implimented, programmers dont
and cant miss anything like that, just deosnt happen.
"Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that
the strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I mean,
the striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and the
system programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a small
test, but when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete program must
work as a whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working, then it's
buggy."
Again, IF that were true than SNK is a terrible company. However its not,
whether it was done butn seprate groups or not, someone has to impliment it
together, thats what plan sheets are for. There not dumb, or are they? Your
choice.
"After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully
done. And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we
will start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is,
it can be done."
Yeah for one measly striker, except i can still quick recover after the combo
and nail you for it. Youll get a striker but youll be dead.
"Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character,
which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness."
It does exist, i didnt really enter discussion refering to that, but, i dont
think its in the same form you percieve it to be. I dont think people really use
such characters, and the FEW who do arent regular players. In the end its barely
noticable. I dont notice it in my area and i dont think you see people using
truly cheap characters to often ether.
"I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm
wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know.
Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites too.
BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are those
the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country."
It may have been the wrong video. I remember the player sitting back and doing
Ice Breaths abd air counters all day. Try one of the K' vids, he truly does
turtle and it works well. Im not sure where the tourneys were held, but it says
somewhere on the site...
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"Second, ground hits were in kof 99 also"
Yeap, but it's the Active Striker system and the recovery of striker bombs
what screwed it. And yeah, I seem to know something, but I didn't dig into
every possible thing in KoF2000 'cause I never liked that game too much, so if
Dong striker is also cheap (I never used him and never saw anyone using him),
then he's cheap, I don't see your point.
"and takes specific programming to get the strikers to even hit them while
there on the ground as normal hits wont do it"
Yup, but the ground hit didn't do too much damage in KoF'99 and I think that
the strikers development and the active system one were done separately. I
mean, the striker design and move programming was done by a group of guys and
the system programming was done by another, so nothing was broken during a
small test, but when you joined everything it got screwed up. A complete
program must work as a whole, if you join small pieces and it stops working,
then it's buggy.
"Yeah, but you have to taunt, and that leaves you wide open. Ask any KOF
player who knows what there doing, there waiting for you to try it. Even if
they do it while your down taunts last long enough for you to retaliate and
nail them. Go ahead and taunt."
After finishing a combo, you can safely taunt, I saw it being successfully
done. And don't start me again with those little nationalistic remarks or we
will start yet another stupid discussion that only leads to a flame. Point is,
it can be done.
"I know hes a "cheap" character"
Then what the fuck are we discussing? You acknowledge he's a cheap character,
which means you also acknowledge the existance of cheapness.
"point is i dont think the players you talk about are as good as you say as
nobody complains when somethings not hurting them."
Huh, It must have hurted them the first couple of times they tried to beat the
machine, and a little common sense tells you it shouldn't be used to play
against other people. See, if we make a KoF world tourney and allow the usage
of boss characters, every team will use them and the winner will probably the
one that better uses that boss, turning the tourney into complete BS.
I just downloaded the Kula one (I don't have Real Media 8, just DivX) and I'm
wondering where the turtling was. Blocking is completely acceptable, you know.
Attacking is also acceptable and striker calls that don't lead to infinites
too. BTW, I didn't see the place of the tourney, but for the nicknames (or are
those the actual names?) I think it was in an Arab country.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:27:2001 12:47 AM:
"Oh so we have added another cheap striker to the list eh?"
Nope, I rather try it myself and decide.
"BTW, half the strikers in the game can pick you up off the ground in one
situation or another"
I didn't try all the strikers but I know why you're talking BS.
"If the programming teams at SNK were as ignorant as to miss something so simple
than the company you love so much is the worst team of programmers to ever grace
the industry."
Yeap, and forget everything else they did, including the previous episodes of
KoF. As I explained before, lots of programmers left the company, they had a
brand new striker system, they had to improve the Counter and Armor mode, do new
graphics, some changes to every character and a schedule to fit (which is the
worst thing a programmer has to face). So, if they got late to the release date,
they had to release it anyways, leaving so many bugs behind.
"Im still quite positive it was purposly implimented"
To match Crapcom's VS series?
"someone has to impliment it together, thats what plan sheets are for"
Another uncle Ryoga story: In my company we were developing a system, we had a
schedule with tasks perfectly divided and that project crap managers love for
some retarded reason. You know, programmers don't set the deliver time, but
managers do, which means those schedules can be highly unrealistic. Well, we had
two days of delay (no big thing) and I was the guy who was closer in times to
what was planned, so I decided to gather my work with some of the other guy's
work so I could test the system in a more complete way (consider you do a lot of
separate testing before joining it with the rest of the system). There was a
little problem, that program should be able to work with two different
databases, and the developing tool was made by the maker of one of those
databases. Now, when I tried it with the other database I found out that it
didn't allow me to open more than a window at the same time, meaning we were
screwed one or two days before the deliver date. We had to patch it as we could
and the result was something I considered crap. So believe me when I tell you
being a programmer is not easy as saying it.
"except i can still quick recover after the combo and nail you for it"
Huh? Using which character? And which character should I use to have such a
crappy taunt? Remember you can't choose Dan in KoF.
"I dont think people really use such characters"
That was an obvious example, there are other things I do consider cheap. Another
example, choose Mai in '98, you can do her fan dance over and over again. That's
cheap, as it bears a lot of damage (even block damage) has a good recovery and
it's not a difficult move. You can counter it as she fills your power bar like
hell and you can just CD counter. I've used it, and know a very easy way to
counter it, even though I know that move is cheap.
"I dont notice it in my area"
And your area is...
"I remember the player sitting back and doing Ice Breaths"
Ice Breaths don't have a good recovery. Of course he did use that and the anti
air too, but he seemed very offensive and most time he landed those moves,
besides he wasn't in a corner all the time as he rushed for combos very
frequently.
Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:27:2001 06:04 AM:
All I can say is that Cheapness is a hideaway to give instant security to a
worthless player. and THAT is irrefutable, if anyone hell comes out of a refute
that'll only be based on bias and not on open-mindedness.
Posted by GeeseHoward on 01:27:2001 06:20 AM:
Hey, waasup, people?!
As for this post I think there is such a thing as being "cheap" but I didn't say
that you can't play cheap while playing. I just try to play the best game that I
can, but honestly though, people who play cheap do tend to know only one pattern
or tactic that usually has unbelievable priority over a given character. In CvS
I think there are a lot of players who just do the same thing over and over, and
it just gets tiresome, and then they start thinking, damn, I'm the greatest
player of all time. If you beat these people at their own game, you can see how
much it frustrates them, and they usually just shut-up. Anyone ever see that? I
extremly dislike Guile in CvS, but then again, he's beatable. So yeah, that's
what I think.
As for the people complaining about what should and shouldn't be discussed, just
don't read the topic...Its that simple..I mean, its just a game...
Later
-The Geese
Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 11:33 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
This is a discussion about "cheapness" not about excuses. If you can't get it,
then you should read the thread (at least once). Now, if after reading the
thread you still don't get it, then I'll have to give you the sad news that
you're a retard.
No one has proven me wrong yet. Read my posts. No one here has said anything
against it or challenged it and if you do you are a hypocrite to everything you
have posted here. And yes i am complaining when I see 3 pages of you MOSTLY
posting nothing but flames. And if you don't get that you can follow your own
advice you gave me up there.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-26-2001).]
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-26-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 11:39 AM:
So far I've seen in this thread,
a) People who believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series
b) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series
c) People who believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series
d) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series...erm not
really, I have to see this combination yet
So I ask: is anybody out here who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the
VS series?. Just curious
Or maybe are all those weird theories of the people here just the result of a
"combo" of Seth's make-believe + being used to the VS series?? Think about it...
Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 11:44 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
No one has proven me wrong yet.
Ehh? What are you talking about buddy??
Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 11:59 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ehh? What are you talking about buddy??
Oryoga tried to say that i was whining about the post length because I had been
proven wrong when more than half of the people on this topic agreed with me or
said nothing to challenge it at all. I guess nobody bothered to read the last 3
pages.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 12:12 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
Oryoga tried to say that i was whining about the post length because I had
been proven wrong when more than half of the people on this topic agreed with
me or said nothing to challenge it at all. I guess nobody bothered to read the
last 3 pages.
Apparently neither did you. Otherwise you already knew that "more than half of
the people on this topic" means SHIT compared to the vast majority of the
fighters' players in this world who CERTAINLY do believe in Cheapness; The World
> USA > SRK.com, in case you didn't know...
Posted by SithKilla on 01:27:2001 01:21 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Apparently neither did you. Otherwise you already knew that "more than half of
the people on this topic" means SHIT compared to the vast majority of the
fighters' players in this world who CERTAINLY do believe in Cheapness; The
World > USA > SRK.com, in case you didn't know...
Exactly my point. I said more than half the people who have posted here in this
topic. This is where the discussion began. Not the vast majority you are talking
about. Obviously there is more of the minorty posting here than the majority.
The outside majority can think what they want and can give their views here too.
But when i reread everyones posts here most of thier opinions on what is cheap
are close to mine.
I never said that i didn't belive in cheapness
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).]
Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:27:2001 01:24 PM:
If you people don't like whining stop being cheap..
The only reason people think cheapness does not exist is because they are
cheapasses..
I.e. A guile player in CvS who does nothing but throw sonic booms and sweeps all
day..
Blanka who just rolls all fay
and they dare call themsleves experts..
they should be run over by a truck and told that their parents are terrible for
raising such a cheap ass, I love whining especially if I have beaten a cheap ass
player to a pulp and made his head bleed just like the other day..
That doesn't make me reasonable nor do I admit I am
BUT I DON'T CARE
the sheer fun of "wanting to kill" all cheap-ass bastards.. I'm in love with
this hatred.
Posted by Muchiko on 01:27:2001 02:42 PM:
quote:
I have a challenge for all of you people who believe in the word cheap. Show
me someone who has the skill to give the top 10 players in golf land some
serious competition and also believes in the word cheap.
I guaranee you won't find one. You know why? Because they don't blame the
game's inherent design when they lose. They blame themselves. That's precisely
why they are so DAMN good at the game. They blamed their mistakes, and
improved. If they blamed the game, or their opponent's cheap style, they would
never improve.
Well, since you asked for it.
When KOF2k just released in Golfland, Alex Valle tried out the game... of
course, he loses everytime. But whenever he loses to my two chars, he would
always complained and called them the cheapess KOF characters ever. Not only
that but those two chars are chars no one even dare touches... And they require
about a year to become decent chars, really.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:27:2001 06:31 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
So far I've seen in this thread,
a) People who believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series
b) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND like the VS series
c) People who believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series
d) People who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like the VS series...erm
not really, I have to see this combination yet
So I ask: is anybody out here who DON'T believe in Cheapness AND DON'T like
the VS series?. Just curious
Or maybe are all those weird theories of the people here just the result of a
"combo" of Seth's make-believe + being used to the VS series?? Think about
it...
Well, here I am.
I don't really believe in cheapness. I believe in lowly-skilled scrubs, but not
cheapness. The only reason I play VS. games is because that's the type of game
that gets the most comp where I currently live. I get bored with VS. games
really quickly, and most people I play are generally too easy to stomp, so it's
no fun. But playing by myself isn't any fun either.
Nobody plays CVS in my arcade that much, except for the Chinese guys who work in
the food court (and they're really good). So unless they are around, there's no
comp for me on that game. It's sad, because I really like CVS.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by bis on 01:27:2001 07:38 PM:
Thank you muchiko for bringing up the story you had about valle. All the
"experts" complain about cheapness to it's just funny when some people think the
experts can do no wrong in a game. All the "experts" i see play cheap anyone who
has blackheart or cable plays cheap cause they know it's cheap. Why else would
they use them , mostly everyone plays dirty to win and that's a fact. The only
reason people use certain guys cause of powerful abilities. If zangief was
really strong in mvsc 2 all these so called experts would be using them. In
essence these guys jump on the bandwagon when a powerful fighter is found.
Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 08:15 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Muchiko:
Well, since you asked for it.
When KOF2k just released in Golfland, Alex Valle tried out the game... of
course, he loses everytime. But whenever he loses to my two chars, he would
always complained and called them the cheapess KOF characters ever. Not only
that but those two chars are chars no one even dare touches... And they
require about a year to become decent chars, really.
Great anecdote Muchiko. Heh you tell 'em! BTW which chars did you use? Just
curious
Posted by ImMature on 01:27:2001 08:21 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Well, here I am.
I don't really believe in cheapness. I believe in lowly-skilled scrubs, but
not cheapness. The only reason I play VS. games is because that's the type of
game that gets the most comp where I currently live. I get bored with VS.
games really quickly, and most people I play are generally too easy to stomp,
so it's no fun. But playing by myself isn't any fun either.
Ok man, it makes one then. Anyone else?
BTW how did you "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist? Care to explain? I'm
asking cause it's not very common among KOF fans...
Posted by SSJGogeta on 01:27:2001 10:43 PM:
there is no such thing a s cheap just excuses to loosing
I am niether goku nor vegeta but the instrument of your destruction
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:28:2001 01:14 AM:
SithKilla: We backed up a lot of things and you just deny it because it's better
for you to do so than to accept reality, so if you still think you have
something worthy to say then repost it, this forum takes a lot to load and I
won't take that much time to read another retarded quote.
SSJGogeta: Well, your retarded quote was much easier to see.
Tell me, why do a bunch of tourney winners listen to what other people say about
you? Why do you care about other people whinning over a defeat?
I think this is a Jinmaster (correct me if it was another guy) story: Jin once
played MvsC2 against Duc. He beaten Duc (you know, Jin is number 7 and Duc is
number 1 at that game). Later on that tourney(or was it the rematch) he faced
Duc again, and this funny guy did his extra cheap Spiral-Cable technique,
beating Jinmaster. Now what is the moral? It is that Duc relies on a single trap
to beat other good players, and whenever Jinmaster discovers a good way to
overcome it, he will beat Duc's sorry ass.
Posted by Panpigpig on 01:28:2001 01:16 AM:
ok.........
http://thor.prohosting.com/~mugen4e/0000/oleona-blood.gif
"Am I still in King of Fighters or King of Losers?"
Posted by SithKilla on 01:28:2001 03:34 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
SithKilla: We backed up a lot of things and you just deny it because it's
better for you to do so than to accept reality, so if you still think you have
something worthy to say then repost it, this forum takes a lot to load and I
won't take that much time to read another retarded quote.
Bottom line don't say I was proved wrong if you don't even know what my point
was. I have posted my views 4 times But you choose to not read and make
assumptions based on nothing more than sombody calling you out on your squabbles
for the last 2 pages that have no substance. But i will humor you.
Cheapness exists because when you cheat you are being cheap. And I don’t care
what game you are in there is a way of cheating. And no we are not talking about
glitches or infinites. All the examples I have given of being cheap if you had
read them have nothing to do with any character in the game. Read the definition
of what I said was cheap again. I just said cheapness does not exist IN THE GAME
because both players have an equal chance of winning. But I said cheapness
itself does exist when playing when your opponent if he/she is not given equal
playing rights or has no chance of winning period. For example, mashing my
buttons or shaking the machine is just outright cheating. Its sort of like
tripping a guy running the 100 meter dash. So in conclusion NOTHING ABOUT THE
GAME IS CHEAP. But cheapness itself still exists. The whole game was just made
poorly with poor debugging and game testers. Now am I wrong or right? If I am
wrong please tell me how I differ from your opinion because to my knowledge all
you “masters” have been saying the same thing I have and have been arguing with
a person who has agreed with you for the last 2 pages.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-27-2001).]
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:28:2001 08:49 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok man, it makes one then. Anyone else?
BTW how did you "discovered" that Cheapness didn't exist? Care to explain? I'm
asking cause it's not very common among KOF fans...
Like I said in an earlier post, I based my decision on my personal experiences.
In my eyes, "cheap" could be anything that a bad player wants to call cheap. If
said scrub loses to a certain strategy, he feels perfectly entitled to calling
it "cheap", whether it takes a lot of effort or not. It's his excuse for losing.
I came to this conclusion because every time I hear the word "cheap" in an
arcade, it's coming from a loser who is pissed because he got owned. So I came
to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as "cheapness". What you
call cheapness, I call bad tactics. Simple as that. Because "cheap" tactics (ie,
take little effort, but big payoff) can be used intelligently by good players
who know better than to stick to only one tactic. If you know your opponent
can't beat a tactic, you should use it, unless you want to showboat or screw
around. Once they learn the "cheap" tactic, you can then show your skill by
using a different tactic. Just because a tactic is "cheap" doesn't mean it is
bad to use it...just don't use it all the time. Mix it up.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by Jusatsu on 01:28:2001 09:26 AM:
Who fucking cares!?!? how can people argue over something as stupid as this for
this long! man!
http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/sig.jpg
Tyler says use soap. The army uses guns. Dealers say do dope. The pope tends to
do nuns. The lovers say elope. The french use kilotons. I tend to use Gato.
MOU-KO KOU HAZAN!!!
Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 12:56 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by SSJGogeta:
there is no such thing a s cheap just excuses to loosing
There is no such thing as a super-race of American SFers who have discovered
that Cheapness doesn't exist, just a bunch of dudes BRAINWASHED by Seth
Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 01:14 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Like I said in an earlier post, I based my decision on my personal
experiences. In my eyes, "cheap" could be anything that a bad player wants to
call cheap. If said scrub loses to a certain strategy, he feels perfectly
entitled to calling it "cheap", whether it takes a lot of effort or not. It's
his excuse for losing. I came to this conclusion because every time I hear the
word "cheap" in an arcade, it's coming from a loser who is pissed because he
got owned. So I came to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as
"cheapness".
Man excuse me but that makes no sense IMHO. Why to base your views about a game
dynamics on the whines of a bunch of scrubs? Scrubs can complain about ANYTHING
whenever they get owned. Following that line of thinking, scrubs at my local
arcade,
*Complain about their controller being busted (when it isn't) ---> So
controllers are NEVER busted
*Complain about me smoking while playing during certain challenges (heh heh)
---> So I certainly do NOT smoke during any challenge (which is false)
*Complain about they "having a bad day" ---> So EVERYBODY displays the same
amount of skill ANYTIME in his/her life
Additionally I always (humoristically) blame anytime I get my ass kicked at MOTW
on "Billy & Yamazaki not being in the game" ---> So Billy & Yama ARE actually
in the game, only that I'm unable to unlock 'em
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:29:2001 06:59 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Man excuse me but that makes no sense IMHO. Why to base your views about a
game dynamics on the whines of a bunch of scrubs? Scrubs can complain about
ANYTHING whenever they get owned. Following that line of thinking, scrubs at
my local arcade,
*Complain about their controller being busted (when it isn't) ---> So
controllers are NEVER busted
*Complain about me smoking while playing during certain challenges (heh heh)
---> So I certainly do NOT smoke during any challenge (which is false)
*Complain about they "having a bad day" ---> So EVERYBODY displays the same
amount of skill ANYTIME in his/her life
Additionally I always (humoristically) blame anytime I get my ass kicked at
MOTW on "Billy & Yamazaki not being in the game" ---> So Billy & Yama ARE
actually in the game, only that I'm unable to unlock 'em
Well, think about it. I first heard the word "cheap" when some guy called me
cheap when I beat him in a game. So I looked at what I was doing, and decided
that maybe I should change my strategy a little bit so I wouldn't be "cheap",
since being cheap was bad. Then I beat someone else, and they called me cheap.
Oh well.
I decided to ask one of the better players at the arcade what "cheap" was. He
told me that cheap was something that absolutely dominated you in a fight,
something that you could do nothing about. In my experience, there was no
"unbeatable" strategy.....there was always a way around stuff, you just had to
find it. So scratch that idea.
My point is that everyone has a different definition of what is "cheap". Since
there is no one universal definition of the term that everyone agrees on, then
how can the concept be taken seriously? I have yet to find a group of people who
are very good at video games and also have a definition of cheap that they all
agree on. That's why I don't think there is such a thing as cheapness. That's
also why I disagree with you. I have never met a good player who thought
cheapness existed, and until I meet one, I shall stick with my current beliefs.
BTW, did you read the rest of my post that you used in your response? Just
curious.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by ImMature on 01:29:2001 09:42 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Well, think about it. I first heard the word "cheap" when some guy called me
cheap when I beat him in a game. So I looked at what I was doing, and decided
that maybe I should change my strategy a little bit so I wouldn't be "cheap",
since being cheap was bad. Then I beat someone else, and they called me cheap.
Oh well.
I decided to ask one of the better players at the arcade what "cheap" was. He
told me that cheap was something that absolutely dominated you in a fight,
something that you could do nothing about. In my experience, there was no
"unbeatable" strategy.....there was always a way around stuff, you just had to
find it. So scratch that idea.
My point is that everyone has a different definition of what is "cheap". Since
there is no one universal definition of the term that everyone agrees on, then
how can the concept be taken seriously? I have yet to find a group of people
who are very good at video games and also have a definition of cheap that they
all agree on. That's why I don't think there is such a thing as cheapness.
That's also why I disagree with you. I have never met a good player who
thought cheapness existed, and until I meet one, I shall stick with my current
beliefs.
BTW, did you read the rest of my post that you used in your response? Just
curious.
Yep I did read your post entirely. I didn't reply to the rest just cause I agree
with what you said about tactics there (even though it doesn't implies that
Cheapness doesn't exist). About everybody having his own definition of cheap,
well there are things like infinities or use of extremely overpowered chars in
which everyone agrees. In some areas of the world normal throwing counts too
(there is not a real big fuss about it in my area though). So more or less views
about Cheapness are not that heterogeneus, now are they?
Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 01:29:2001 02:06 PM:
*sigh* I see no point in arguing but I'll just leave my opinion about this
subject.
Cheapness does exist. Many so called/self-proclaimed experts claim they are good
at this or that fighting game when the only thing they know is to repeat an
annoying pattern. A very common sight in any versus game. You call "cheapnes" as
a losers excuse but you know the "losers" can look at it the other way - you
call your style "fair" and argue like a dick that you're so good and they're so
bad 'cause they can't break a pattern where in fact it is only an excuse for you
to hide the fact that that is the only fucking way you can win.
Many "losers" such as myself tend to stay as a "loser" because we don't want to
degrade to the cheap players level. In other words we don't resort to cheapness.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:29:2001 04:17 PM:
"I have posted my views 4 times But you choose to not read"
I've read, answered and dismissed them. Nothing too important, but I was looking
for something really important and haven't found it, that's why I asked you to
repost (expecting to find something worthy to read, just in case of
missinterpretation).
"Cheapness exists because when you cheat you are being cheap."
Well, yeap, cheating is a form of cheapness.
"I just said cheapness does not exist IN THE GAME because both players have an
equal chance of winning"
Yeap, there are glitches in the game that makes one of the players with less
winning chance. If there is one character that has a big easy glitch or
infinite, using it may cause everybody picking him, going back to Karate Champ
days.
"But I said cheapness itself does exist when playing when your opponent if
he/she is not given equal playing rights or has no chance of winning period."
Now you're saying the complete opposite thing. Are you sure about what you're
talking about?
"For example, mashing my buttons or shaking the machine is just outright
cheating."
Nope, it's not (unless you're hitting the other guy with your elbow in the
process). Mashing buttons and shaking the machine is just dumb (but you can be
very successful in MvsC2).
"So in conclusion NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME IS CHEAP"
Based on? I mean after that many contradictions and stupid remarks (that I've
proven wrong by the way), how are you expecting to make a valid point?
"The whole game was just made poorly with poor debugging and game testers."
Some games have that failure, some lack of testing, but you can't expect
everything to pop up during the testing fase. It's when the game is in the
arcades and have competition when all problems appear, now it's the players
choice to use those extra (and non intended) advantages or not (to be or not to
be cheap).
"Now am I wrong or right?"
Guess it by yourself.
Posted by SithKilla on 01:29:2001 09:30 PM:
I've read, answered and dismissed them. Nothing too important, but I was looking
for something really important and haven't found it, that's why I asked you to
repost (expecting to find something worthy to read, just in case of
missinterpretation).
If that was true than you wouldn't have made your first comment that I was
proven wrong because nobody tried untill now. What more are you looking for? Its
not that complicated when nothing about the game is truely cheap. I say nothing
in the game is cheap. This has been my point from jump. Or are you saying it is?
Yeap, there are glitches in the game that makes one of the players with less
winning chance. If there is one character that has a big easy glitch or
infinite, using it may cause everybody picking him, going back to Karate Champ
days.
You didn't give me an answer as to how you felt about this after you quoted.
That is the whole point of this dicussion.
Now you're saying the complete opposite thing. Are you sure about what you're
talking about?
By equal playing rights i mean being able to do the same things your opponent is
doing. This is no different than what i said above. You just twisted it.
Nope, it's not (unless you're hitting the other guy with your elbow in the
process). Mashing buttons and shaking the machine is just dumb (but you can be
very successful in MvsC2).
Again you misinterpreted what i was saying. I said the other guy is pressing
your buttons. That is pretty cheap to me. Unless you think this act is ok when
your playing.
Based on? I mean after that many contradictions and stupid remarks (that I've
proven wrong by the way), how are you expecting to make a valid point?
Based on the fact that you can't read properly because your too biased to get my
points. I guess you just like arguing. Even if i was making stupid remarks I
make them without insulting people.
Some games have that failure, some lack of testing, but you can't expect
everything to pop up during the testing fase. It's when the game is in the
arcades and have competition when all problems appear, now it's the players
choice to use those extra (and non intended) advantages or not (to be or not to
be cheap).
I don't expect everything to. I never said it had to be perfect. But they could
have done a better job like i said time and time again. You just have to argue
with someone even when you agree with them don't you. Its too hard for you to
accept anything i say as being right. Point being they could have tested it
better.
You seem to be the one contradicting. Tell me again what you think is cheap.
Again i just told you my reasons. Since you are so determind to be my enemy why
don't you give me some counterpoints instead of just calling me stupid and
retarded.
p.s oh yeah if my quote is retarded than that means you belive in making excuses
for everything you do. Thats what it means. Now are you going to fight me on
this too?
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-29-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:29:2001 10:25 PM:
"If that was true than you wouldn't have made your first comment that I was
proven wrong because nobody tried untill now."
You see, lots of people in this board pop up in a lengthy thread like this one
and make the same comment that other people did in the first page of the thread.
I will obviously skip that comment and go on. I may skip you if I feel your
comment was already been answered long ago.
"I say nothing in the game is cheap."
You're not the first guy to do so. Obviously I don't think the same.
"You didn't give me an answer as to how you felt about this after you quoted."
You mean, you want to know what I think about everyone having the same chance of
winning. Well, I think that theorically both players do have the same chance if
both of them choose the same character/team. Now, doing so kills the fun
nowadays(that's what I meant with Karate Champ).
"By equal playing rights i mean being able to do the same things your opponent
is doing."
I didn't twisted, but I think I got what you meant now. But to do the same exact
thing you need to play with the exact same characters.
"I said the other guy is pressing your buttons."
Whoa!!! That's BS!!! You mean people in your area do that??? That's utter crap.
"Based on the fact that you can't read properly because your too biased to get
my points."
You showed no good proof. Being able to select the same character (or set of
characters) means nothing about a game or how it is or should be played.
"I guess you just like arguing."
Of course I do, i wouldn't be posting in BBSs if I didn't like discussing.
"Even if i was making stupid remarks I make them without insulting people."
As I said to ej_333, after replying the same thing for over 4 pages (now it's 7
pages), I tend to become flammy.
"You just have to argue with someone even when you agree with them don't you."
Nope, I just think that a game doesn't have a poor design just for having a
couple of glitches and infinites (big unbalances are something else), that's
what I don't agree with. Of course I would like to see games being properly
tested!!!
"Since you are so determind to be my enemy"
Your enemy??? Whatever.
"why don't you give me some counterpoints instead of just calling me stupid and
retarded."
Couterpoints of what? Of both sides being able to pull out the same thing? Ok,
here it is:
Both sides can pull the same things only if they always use the same character,
which is crap. Now, even using the same characters you may have a ... Gambit vs
Gambit match (warning, I don't play MvsC2 but I think it will be the best
explanation, so I apologize beforehand if something I say is not precisely like
that in the game). The game is going normal until one of the two players get a
little advantage of a punch and performs the Gambit glitch to freeze the screen,
becoming the winner. Don't you think that is cheap? If that is completely
accepted, all people would try to master that glitch. What do you think would be
the level in a place like that? Now, if you had a honor rule preventing people
for doing so, the playing level would raise a lot as all matches would last
until one of the two players looses his life bar.
"if my quote is retarded than that means you belive in making excuses for
everything you do."
Making excuses? I never make excuses even when I could. Example, two weeks ago I
played in a place that had either the joystick rotated or the right up diagonal
broken, I played and lost (instead of jumping forward I jumped straight up), but
I never said anything to the other guy. I don't take cheapness as an excuse (no
one cares about excuses). So yeah, I'll fight you and I'll punish in the name of
the moon (it's a joke about boss, skip it).
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:29:2001 10:51 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Yep I did read your post entirely. I didn't reply to the rest just cause I
agree with what you said about tactics there (even though it doesn't implies
that Cheapness doesn't exist). About everybody having his own definition of
cheap, well there are things like infinities or use of extremely overpowered
chars in which everyone agrees. In some areas of the world normal throwing
counts too (there is not a real big fuss about it in my area though). So more
or less views about Cheapness are not that heterogeneus, now are they?
Actually, most of the people I know don't gripe about overpowered characters, or
if they do then they are stupid (they complain about my Cable, then they go pick
Storm and Magneto....so stupid). So you can't comfortably say "Everyone agrees
that overpowered characters are cheap", because it's not true. And most people I
know don't have a problem with throwing either. My point is, there is no one
universal defn. of cheap, it's different for everyone. Since most definitions I
hear have flaws in them, I don't take them seriously.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by Frankie on 01:29:2001 11:47 PM:
There is no such thing as cheapness...If its in the game...Its fair...
...I feel so strongly about this that I'm gonna make a thread...
http://www.gamegen.com/Gamepics/animations/signature/short.gif
Go to www.GAMEGEN.com or else...
Posted by SithKilla on 01:29:2001 11:57 PM:
You mean, you want to know what I think about everyone having the same chance of
winning. Well, I think that theorically both players do have the same chance if
both of them choose the same character/team. Now, doing so kills the fun
nowadays(that's what I meant with Karate Champ).
It may kill the fun but you just said yourself that both players theoretically
have the same chance. So if both players have the same chance of winning, how is
one person being cheap if both players can do the same moves?
I didn't twisted, but I think I got what you meant now. But to do the same exact
thing you need to play with the exact same characters.
Exactly. Thats why i say its not cheap.
Whoa!!! That's BS!!! You mean people in your area do that??? That's utter crap.
Its called living in the inner city with assholes. And like i said before this
IS cheap
You showed no good proof. Being able to select the same character (or set of
characters) means nothing about a game or how it is or should be played.
The proofs right there. Maybe thats not how it should be but it is. When talking
about your quote/unquote "cheapness" it has everything to do with it. Are you
saying that if both people pick the same character the odds aren't even?
Of course I do, i wouldn't be posting in BBSs if I didn't like discussing.
There is a difference between arguing and discussing. Or debating and arguing.
It becomes an argument when you do more than just challenge my views. You make
ignorant comments because you think differently than me. Maybe its just normal
for you to call people retards when "discussing" things but I take offence. This
shows a lack of respect. And if you think its ok to do this to everyone you talk
to you will find life very hard to live.
As I said to ej_333, after replying the same thing for over 4 pages (now it's 7
pages), I tend to become flammy.
If you keep having to say the same things you could have just told me that and i
would have said "ok cool". As a matter of fact you didn't have to respond at
all. I understand though. I get pissed off too but we can talk about this
without degraging people. I don't know you. I have no beef with you. So lets
give that area a rest please.
Nope, I just think that a game doesn't have a poor design just for having a
couple of glitches and infinites (big unbalances are something else), that's
what I don't agree with. Of course I would like to see games being properly
tested!!!
Fine you can belive that. As for me when i look at the game i see nothing but
problems. More than half of the players have infinities. You have a number of
glitches. No other game has had this many problems. Thats why i say they could
have done a better job
Your enemy??? Whatever.
When sombody I don't know starts calling me stupid i for no other reason than a
difference in opinion I take offence. That makes me belive they have a problem
with me. Therefore I consider them my enemy. Thats the image you give off.
Wouldn't you feel the same way?
Both sides can pull the same things only if they always use the same character,
which is crap. Now, even using the same characters you may have a ... Gambit vs
Gambit match (warning, I don't play MvsC2 but I think it will be the best
explanation, so I apologize beforehand if something I say is not precisely like
that in the game). The game is going normal until one of the two players get a
little advantage of a punch and performs the Gambit glitch to freeze the screen,
becoming the winner. Don't you think that is cheap? If that is completely
accepted, all people would try to master that glitch. What do you think would be
the level in a place like that? Now, if you had a honor rule preventing people
for doing so, the playing level would raise a lot as all matches would last
until one of the two players looses his life bar.
Again both players have the ability to pick the same character and do the
glitch. It may not be fun but when talking about a fair fight thats what you
have to do. Its unfair and crappy but its a part of the game.
Making excuses? I never make excuses even when I could. Example, two weeks ago I
played in a place that had either the joystick rotated or the right up diagonal
broken, I played and lost (instead of jumping forward I jumped straight up), but
I never said anything to the other guy. I don't take cheapness as an excuse (no
one cares about excuses). So yeah, I'll fight you and I'll punish in the name of
the moon (it's a joke about boss, skip it).
I never said you were making excuses. I said IF you think its a bunch of BS than
you belive in making excuses for whatever you do. That is what my quotes about.
You said my quote was retarded which means you don't belive its true.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 01-29-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 12:00 AM:
"There is no such thing as cheapness...If its in the game...Its fair..."
We have a new retard in the neighbourhood.
"...I feel so strongly about this that I'm gonna make a thread..."
Who gives a flying fuck?
What happened? Your trap didn't work? Why are you doing it again? Don't you know
anything else? Oooops, guess you're the one going to the exchange machine.
Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 12:36 AM:
You know, i could sit here a bitch all day about cheap someone is with the
current character there playing, but where does that get me? It deosnt make me a
better player as im not doing anything to beat the so called "cheapness". Fact
is PEOPLE DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT CHEAPNESS UNLESS THERE LOSING. So for anyone who
is saying that cheapness is really that apparent its obvious that you have been
or was very much losing to the cheapness and instead of learning to do something
about it you complain. Hense the reason why it deosnt matter if it truly exists
as the real reason you complain about isnt becuase your a good player and you
think people dont meet your standards of a good players, not becuase you think a
character is overbearing, but becuase YOU have not taken the time you learn how
to do beat it. IF you can beat it isnt cheap, PERIOD. People do everyday
folks...
quote:
Originally posted by Rugal 3:16:
If you people don't like whining stop being cheap..
The only reason people think cheapness does not exist is because they are
cheapasses..
I.e. A guile player in CvS who does nothing but throw sonic booms and sweeps
all day..
Blanka who just rolls all fay
and they dare call themsleves experts..
they should be run over by a truck and told that their parents are terrible
for raising such a cheap ass, I love whining especially if I have beaten a
cheap ass player to a pulp and made his head bleed just like the other day..
That doesn't make me reasonable nor do I admit I am
BUT I DON'T CARE
the sheer fun of "wanting to kill" all cheap-ass bastards.. I'm in love with
this hatred.
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:02 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Actually, most of the people I know don't gripe about overpowered characters,
or if they do then they are stupid (they complain about my Cable, then they go
pick Storm and Magneto....so stupid).
Please note that neither Ryoga or I are taking MvC2 as an example cause you HAVE
to be cheap to win in that game. Y'know the best example on how poorly balanced
the whole game is? That if you wanna beat "X" you *HAVE* to choose "Y". And what
if I don't like "Y", gotta learn to play as him/her anyways just in case my
opponent picks "X"?? That's crap if you ask me, a "broken game" like I've seen
people here calling it...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
So you can't comfortably say "Everyone agrees that overpowered characters are
cheap", because it's not true. And most people I know don't have a problem
with throwing either. My point is, there is no one universal defn. of cheap,
it's different for everyone. Since most definitions I hear have flaws in them,
I don't take them seriously.
That's prolly cause no one is gonna devote his entire life to demonstrate
scientifically the existence of Cheapness. I'd do, but I suck at Maths
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:08 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Hense the reason why it deosnt matter if it truly exists as the real reason
you complain about isnt becuase your a good player and you think people dont
meet your standards of a good players, not becuase you think a character is
overbearing, but becuase YOU have not taken the time you learn how to do beat
it.
How do you know? Have you personally played him?
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 01:14 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato:
*sigh* I see no point in arguing but I'll just leave my opinion about this
subject.
Cheapness does exist. Many so called/self-proclaimed experts claim they are
good at this or that fighting game when the only thing they know is to repeat
an annoying pattern. A very common sight in any versus game. You call
"cheapnes" as a losers excuse but you know the "losers" can look at it the
other way - you call your style "fair" and argue like a dick that you're so
good and they're so bad 'cause they can't break a pattern where in fact it is
only an excuse for you to hide the fact that that is the only fucking way you
can win.
Many "losers" such as myself tend to stay as a "loser" because we don't want
to degrade to the cheap players level. In other words we don't resort to
cheapness.
In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than
lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough at
the game
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 04:55 AM:
"In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than
lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough at
the game"
But don't abuse that, or you will become a cheapass that won't be able to stand
a real match (and you will loose some brain cells as well).
Kamui: Yadda, yadda, yawnnnn.
SithKilla:
"So if both players have the same chance of winning, how is one person being
cheap if both players can do the same moves?"
It's a matter of choice. You see, I can do a glitch, but it's my choice not to
do that 'cause I find it cheap. As I said before, if you play cheap constantly,
you will rely on cheapness, and when your cheap tactic stops working, you're
dead meat. So leaving outside cheap tactics, will improve your playing ability.
Besides, it depends on your area if it's healthy to win cheaply or not (you may
loose something more important than a few cents).
"Its called living in the inner city with assholes. And like i said before this
IS cheap"
Oh well, you can bet that's cheap.
"Are you saying that if both people pick the same character the odds aren't
even?"
We're not talking about "balance in games", we talk about "cheapness".
"You make ignorant comments because you think differently than me."
If you repeat something that was already said and discussed for pages....
"If you keep having to say the same things you could have just told me that..."
If I did so, you would never learn that jumping into a thread to post something
that was said long ago brings flames. Besides, you weren't the only one to jump
in with that quote.
"So lets give that area a rest please."
Ok
"No other game has had this many problems."
You talk about MvsC2 right? Well, I don't like that game at all, so I don't know
how bad is it.
"Wouldn't you feel the same way?"
If you do it out of the blue, yes, but that's why I read the entire thread
before posting.
"Its unfair and crappy but its a part of the game."
If it's unfair and crappy, why use it? What good do you get from using it? A
victory? I rather loose with honor than win with a low trick. To me, freezing
the screen with a move it's like pressing the other guy's buttons.
"I never said you were making excuses."
I don't completely get you on that. What I think is that excuses are useless and
nobody should use them to avoid certain pattern they cannot break.
Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 01:30:2001 06:01 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
In that case, "degrade yourself to the cheap players level". It's better than
lossing. Eventually you'll find out other ways around if you get good enough
at the game
Heh! I don't lose all the time y'know. I just find it hard to believe that ppl
have to cheat me in order to win when I use a double Zangief team. Just having
trouble with 'em turtles(Guile, Blanka, Balrog, etc.) Rugal spoke about. But
like I said I do win and thus I can say that I don't need to resort to
cheapness.
Posted by SithKilla on 01:30:2001 07:59 AM:
It's a matter of choice. You see, I can do a glitch, but it's my choice not to
do that 'cause I find it cheap. As I said before, if you play cheap constantly,
you will rely on cheapness, and when your cheap tactic stops working, you're
dead meat. So leaving outside cheap tactics, will improve your playing ability.
Besides, it depends on your area if it's healthy to win cheaply or not (you may
loose something more important than a few cents).
You are using your own concept of eithics and honor when playing to justify what
is cheap here. I accept that as your own personal view and will not fight it as
long as you realize that this is not the universally accepted view of what is
cheap
We're not talking about "balance in games", we talk about "cheapness".
My typo error there. I was asking if you thought that having the same characters
picked was still cheap to you. But going back to what you earlier said you had
said that "this is not the way the game should be played". Sometimes to compete
this is necessary. You can choose not to do glitches and such but as i said
before since both of you have the option to so its not cheap.
If you repeat something that was already said and discussed for pages....
Well as i said before I would appreciate it if you killed it. I am not going to
not post my opinion because sombody already said it. I have points that are
different than these people along with ones that are similar. Things are bound
to be repeated. You will be constantly annoyed with forums for the rest of your
posting for this is quite common.
If I did so, you would never learn that jumping into a thread to post something
that was said long ago brings flames. Besides, you weren't the only one to jump
in with that quote.
I don't need to learn that, i just don't care. I have been posting in forums for
a long time so i know the deal. People are offensive and that is fine, I will
never put up with the lack of respect they give me. People need more tolerance.
Its only certain people that flame that have low tolerance for such minor
things.
You talk about MvsC2 right? Well, I don't like that game at all, so I don't know
how bad is it.
Wow did we actually agree on something? Its pretty bad to me. Almost everyone
has an infinite and there are unbalanced glitches in the game.
If you do it out of the blue, yes, but that's why I read the entire thread
before posting.
You did it out of the blue my friend. I did nothing to provoke you and if i did
i'm sorry. Whether you have had to say this a million times is irrelevant. I do
not like people i don't know cursing at me and do not tolerate it.
If it's unfair and crappy, why use it? What good do you get from using it? A
victory? I rather loose with honor than win with a low trick. To me, freezing
the screen with a move it's like pressing the other guy's buttons.
Again we are not talking about your eithical views on the subject, we are
talking about whether this is cheap. Both players have the opportunity to do it.
Therefore it is not cheap. Nobody likes getting caught in a glitch but its a
part of the game.
I don't completely get you on that. What I think is that excuses are useless and
nobody should use them to avoid certain pattern they cannot break.
I was never really accusing you of anything. This is the quote i put for all my
messages. But you got the point of the quote.
If you want to relate it to what i am saying here my point is that saying
glitches and infinities in the game are cheap is an excuse when playing. Again
i'm not saying its right, i'm not saying its fair, i'm not saying you should
pratice them, I'm just saying its not cheap.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 07:59 AM:
No, i dont need to I already know what he plays like. I already know what his
state of mind is. The people that complain about "cheapness" are the same people
who dont understand what "strategy" is. Go take psychology.
BTW, KOF online just got a batch of KOF tourney videos. This is deffinatly high
level KOF play. Funny part is you cant deffinatly tell these guys have no
strategy AT ALL when playing. There just jumping around like madtrying to land a
combo. The dont stay on the ground the entire match, they just keep doing the
same jumping attack over and over again. Im quite possitive that these guys have
the same mentality as you do as from what you can see there is NOTHING
interesting or "cheap" happening at all. They just play insanely offensive like
there afraid to do anything else. I think they suck actually. This isnt a bash
on KOF but a note of what your "ideal" state ofmind is doing to KOF, turning
into a mindless fest of jumping.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
How do you know? Have you personally played him?
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 08:17 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Please note that neither Ryoga or I are taking MvC2 as an example cause you
HAVE to be cheap to win in that game. Y'know the best example on how poorly
balanced the whole game is? That if you wanna beat "X" you *HAVE* to choose
"Y". And what if I don't like "Y", gotta learn to play as him/her anyways just
in case my opponent picks "X"?? That's crap if you ask me, a "broken game"
like I've seen people here calling it...
First of all, I wasn't expressly saying that only the guys who play MVC2 don't
complain about powerful characters. No one who plays KOF at my arcade complains
about overpowered characters. No one who plays SS complains about them, either.
And no one who plays CVS complains.
Second, I expressly disagree on what you said about having to pick "X" to beat
"Y" in MVC2. My own experiences in destroying Cable with Hayato (a miracle in
and of itself) shout that theory down in my mind. And no, I didn't play cheaply,
because it's damn hard to beat any keep-away character in that game with Hayato.
So I don't think the game is that "unbalanced". But hey, what do I know?
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by ej_333 on 01:30:2001 08:21 AM:
I can't believe this thread is still going on.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 08:27 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ej_333:
I can't believe this thread is still going on.
And it shall go on!! And on!! Until the end of humanity!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Wanna know how I know? Because just when it seems most people are done talking,
someone will start the thread again! Go check out Frankie's thread! It's the
exact same shit!!! BEHOLD, THE UTTER STUPIDITY!!!!!!
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:40 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
No, i dont need to I already know what he plays like. I already know what his
state of mind is. The people that complain about "cheapness" are the same
people who dont understand what "strategy" is. Go take psychology.
PLEASE Kamui don't give me that "mindset" crap. Not only you SRK.com guys are a
super race of mutant SFers who have received the Supreme Revelation from god
himself (and yeah I already know you're an Atheist like Ryoga and myself, so
don't bother telling me so) but now you can even read minds too?? Give me a
break
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
BTW, KOF online just got a batch of KOF tourney videos. This is deffinatly
high level KOF play. Funny part is you cant deffinatly tell these guys have no
strategy AT ALL when playing. There just jumping around like madtrying to land
a combo. The dont stay on the ground the entire match, they just keep doing
the same jumping attack over and over again. Im quite possitive that these
guys have the same mentality as you do as from what you can see there is
NOTHING interesting or "cheap" happening at all. They just play insanely
offensive like there afraid to do anything else. I think they suck actually.
This isnt a bash on KOF but a note of what your "ideal" state ofmind is doing
to KOF, turning into a mindless fest of jumping.
HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being
all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing style,
I can grant you that. Anyways since I haven't watched those videos yet I can't
coment anything about those guys' style. BTW what software do you need to watch
those ASF videos of Valle vs Chen? Never heard of ASF before...
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:52 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
First of all, I wasn't expressly saying that only the guys who play MVC2 don't
complain about powerful characters. No one who plays KOF at my arcade
complains about overpowered characters. No one who plays SS complains about
them, either. And no one who plays CVS complains.
Well if you go back to the 'Dumb SNK lemmings' thread where all this started
you'd see I'm refering mostly to Boss characters (and no I don't mean in SvC)
that are selectable "thru" codes like KOF '95/'98 Omega Rugal, '96 Goenitz (in
NeoGeo CD), SS3 Zankuro etc...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Second, I expressly disagree on what you said about having to pick "X" to beat
"Y" in MVC2. My own experiences in destroying Cable with Hayato (a miracle in
and of itself) shout that theory down in my mind. And no, I didn't play
cheaply, because it's damn hard to beat any keep-away character in that game
with Hayato. So I don't think the game is that "unbalanced". But hey, what do
I know?
Well if it isn't unbalanced why did you call beating Cable with Hayato 'a
miracle'??
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 08:58 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Wanna know how I know? Because just when it seems most people are done
talking, someone will start the thread again! Go check out Frankie's thread!
It's the exact same shit!!!
Frankie just realized he was gonna lose the argument here and ran away to
another thread IMHO...
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:30:2001 05:12 PM:
ej_333: Hey man, which tourney are you entering and when will it be? BTW, are
you only gonna play MvsC2 or are you giving CvsS a try?
ImMature: Don't you see that being near nuclear reactors give you Psycho Powers?
Kamui knows our battle ability from the other side of the globe by just reading
our posts. Now I wonder, Valle is said to have the greatest Psycho Power of all
the Crpacomers, but he got owned by Daigo. Heh, I bet Daigo had a Psycho Drive
below the arcades and a power sucking device connected to Valle's controller
(those darn Jap controllers that made the US team lose).
SithKilla:
Hmmm, you actually make a good conversation after all. A note of advice, try
your best in the first post or you'll be overlooked.
"You are using your own concept of eithics and honor when playing to justify
what is cheap here."
Hmmm, cheapness isn't something quantifyable (does that word exists?). So you
need to use your experience to see what is cheap and whatnot. Some people says
that throwing is cheap while I think it's not, I may say that Mai's fan dance in
KoF'98 is cheap and some people may think otherwise, it's a matter of
perception, but ultimately cheap is something that gives a big reward for a low
effort. In KoF throwing gives a low reward (normal throwing, of course) even
though the effort needed to do so is pathetically low, so it may be cheap.
"I was asking if you thought that having the same characters picked was still
cheap to you."
It's not about characters, but the way you use them. I could have based my game
in a cheap Mai in '98, but I would have became less than a newbie in '99 where
she doesn't have that fan dance.
"Sometimes to compete this is necessary."
If you're in a competition, I think it's ok to play safe, but basing your
everyday game on that is trully weak.
"both of you have the option to so its not cheap"
Having both sides the option of being cheap doesn't overrule cheapness itself,
it only balances the match. But aside of both players being able to be cheap,
cheapness still exists.
"I have points that are different than these people along with ones that are
similar"
The stress on the different points, or they will be shadowed by the others and
dismissed.
"You will be constantly annoyed with forums for the rest of your posting for
this is quite common."
On KoF related forums, it wasn't that way.
"I did nothing to provoke you and if i did i'm sorry."
With your quote, you ended in the same bag as Frankie and Trunks (to name a
couple).
"Whether you have had to say this a million times is irrelevant."
To you, not to me.
"Both players have the opportunity to do it."
Again this doesn't make something less cheap.
"what i am saying here my point is that saying glitches and infinities in the
game are cheap is an excuse when playing."
Well, that's your opinion, I think otherwise.
BTW, you seem to mistake cheapness with balance. When something is cheap, it
doesn't matter if both players can do that or not, it's still cheap regardless
of the ability to pull it and the success you may get out of it (which means no
matter if you won or lost, if you played cheap, you played cheap).
Posted by Kamui on 01:30:2001 07:07 PM:
"HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being
all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing style,
I can grant you that"
Ive been told over a hundred times that to effectivly win against high level
players in KOF i MUST be ultra offensive.
Eehh....Im not sure actually, i havent dealt with ASF before, they just seem to
work for me. I thnk you will have to download a plug in for your movie viewer.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
HEY you haven't seen the way I play so stop assuming that kinda crap. Being
all-offensive and being jumping all day has NOTHING to do with my playing
style, I can grant you that. Anyways since I haven't watched those videos yet
I can't coment anything about those guys' style. BTW what software do you need
to watch those ASF videos of Valle vs Chen? Never heard of ASF before...
Posted by Beast of Fire on 01:30:2001 11:02 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Well if it isn't unbalanced why did you call beating Cable with Hayato 'a
miracle'??
I exaggerated. What I meant was that beating a character like Cable, who has
strong keepout games, with a character like Hayato, who has nothing but an
average rushdown game, is no small feat. But the fact that it can be done
warrants some merit to the character (Hayato). If the game really were
completely unbalanced, it shouldn't be possible for Hayato to win against Cable
in a fight between two equally skilled players. Since I myself have done it, I
have to disagree with the game being "unbalanced".
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag4.gif
"I'll show you who's a clone!"
"Why do you bother?"
Posted by ImMature on 01:30:2001 11:37 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
ImMature: Don't you see that being near nuclear reactors give you Psycho
Powers? Kamui knows our battle ability from the other side of the globe by
just reading our posts. Now I wonder, Valle is said to have the greatest
Psycho Power of all the Crpacomers, but he got owned by Daigo. Heh, I bet
Daigo had a Psycho Drive below the arcades and a power sucking device
connected to Valle's controller (those darn Jap controllers that made the US
team lose).
LOL. Good one man. BTW do you remember that Iron Maiden song, The Clairvoyant?
"Just by looking through your eyes he could see the future penetrating right
into your mind, see the truth and see your lies, but for all his power COULDN'T
foresee his own demise". Woah people here do have that kinda power heh heh
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Ive been told over a hundred times that to effectivly win against high level
players in KOF i MUST be ultra offensive.
Eehh....Im not sure actually, i havent dealt with ASF before, they just seem
to work for me. I thnk you will have to download a plug in for your movie
viewer.
Of course in each case you just have to adapt your style to the other guy's
tactics in order to win, you can't play everyone the same way. So?
About the plug in, yeah I know. But which one?
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
I exaggerated. What I meant was that beating a character like Cable, who has
strong keepout games, with a character like Hayato, who has nothing but an
average rushdown game, is no small feat. But the fact that it can be done
warrants some merit to the character (Hayato). If the game really were
completely unbalanced, it shouldn't be possible for Hayato to win against
Cable in a fight between two equally skilled players. Since I myself have done
it, I have to disagree with the game being "unbalanced".
Ok if that's your opinion what can I say?
Posted by ej_333 on 01:31:2001 12:02 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
ej_333: Hey man, which tourney are you entering and when will it be? BTW, are
you only gonna play MvsC2 or are you giving CvsS a try?
Last tourney I entered was the Castro Valley MvC2 double-elimination tourney
over the weekend, where I went two and out. I got almost the worst bracket
possible, I lost to Ricky Ortiz in the first round (he's number two in
California), and I lost to Kim Hoang in the losers bracket (he placed 3rd in the
whole thing). I went with Spiral/Sentinel/Blackheart the entire time, even
though it's a team I've only started playing in the last couple weeks. I wanted
to work on them cuz they have potential. Damn, looks like I gotta work on that
team more.
I know I'm decent at MvC2, because I can definitely hang with Hiroshim, who's
top 5 in California. He beats me most of the time, still, tho.
I enter only MvC2 tourneys right now, but I'm seriously thinking of trying CvS.
I watched some tourney-level CvS, and it seems pretty fun. Kinda simple, but
still fun. Also, I'm getting kinda bored of MvC2, I play that game too much.
Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 12:05 AM:
Hmmm, cheapness isn't something quantifyable (does that word exists?). So you
need to use your experience to see what is cheap and whatnot. Some people says
that throwing is cheap while I think it's not, I may say that Mai's fan dance in
KoF'98 is cheap and some people may think otherwise, it's a matter of
perception, but ultimately cheap is something that gives a big reward for a low
effort. In KoF throwing gives a low reward (normal throwing, of course) even
though the effort needed to do so is pathetically low, so it may be cheap.
I think you summed up our conflict here. I relate cheapness more to cheating
while you see it as a move in the game someone does that is unbalanced as in
your example where you say a big reward for low effort.
It's not about characters, but the way you use them.
Another place where we differ in interpretation.
If you're in a competition, I think it's ok to play safe, but basing your
everyday game on that is trully weak.
No debate there
Having both sides the option of being cheap doesn't overrule cheapness itself,
it only balances the match. But aside of both players being able to be cheap,
cheapness still exists.
You use the word cheap, I use the word unbalanced.
The stress on the different points, or they will be shadowed by the others and
dismissed.
I accept that and will take your advice there
On KoF related forums, it wasn't that way.
This isn't the KOF forum.
With your quote, you ended in the same bag as Frankie and Trunks (to name a
couple).
I get it these people aren't too popular. As i said before the quote was
seperate from the text.
To you, not to me.
Exactly i find it irrelevant.
Again this doesn't make something less cheap.
See above statments
BTW, you seem to mistake cheapness with balance. When something is cheap, it
doesn't matter if both players can do that or not, it's still cheap regardless
of the ability to pull it and the success you may get out of it (which means no
matter if you won or lost, if you played cheap, you played cheap).
You said yourself that it isn't "quantifyable" so i am not mistaking anything.
This is how i view what cheapness is. I say there is no cheapness IN the game.
Only when there isn't equal playing ground opportunity between you and your
opponent.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 01:04 AM:
ImMature: Heh, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was my first Maiden cassette (I have
it on CD now) and I remember very well that song. Some people here is funny, and
don't miss the fun at Frankie's new cheapness thread, that promises to be a
flame bait.
SithKilla:
"I think you summed up our conflict here."
Yup, even though I also think glitches and infinites are cheap.
"You use the word cheap, I use the word unbalanced."
Didn't get you there, if both sides have the same chance of being cheap, it's
not unbalanced. It may mean that certain character has a move that he shouldn't
or that one move has a property it shouldn't or that property should be lowered.
"This isn't the KOF forum."
Believe me, I know.
"I get it these people aren't too popular. As i said before the quote was
seperate from the text."
Dunno if they're popular or not, I judge them for their actions in this thread.
And I though the quote was part of the text, as it seemed what other people
said.
"I say there is no cheapness IN the game. Only when there isn't equal playing
ground opportunity between you and your opponent."
Well, I think everything boils down to each one's opinion. I think your thoughs
are more related to the balance issue (which is another deep subject) but well,
it's how you see it.
BTW, maybe you can tell me what is all that fuzz about the places in team US, I
talk about that Eddie guy, can you explain me what happened?
Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 01:48 AM:
Didn't get you there, if both sides have the same chance of being cheap, it's
not unbalanced. It may mean that certain character has a move that he shouldn't
or that one move has a property it shouldn't or that property should be lowered.
But as i said before i belive nothing in the game is cheap, Just unbalanced when
the teams aren't even. I told you i associate cheapness more to cheating.
Well, I think everything boils down to each one's opinion. I think your thoughs
are more related to the balance issue (which is another deep subject) but well,
it's how you see it.
Yup i'm glad we were able to clear things up.
BTW, maybe you can tell me what is all that fuzz about the places in team US, I
talk about that Eddie guy, can you explain me what happened?
I have no idea, he probably did something at a tournament that pissed people
off. It probably had to do with something similar to our debate. People get
sensitive and say things they don't mean in the heat of battle. Your guess is as
good as mine.
Well looks like that about wrapps it up. I guess i'll have to say something
against your grain again so that you can say everybody proved me wrong and that
i'm stupid so we can start another battle so i can shoot down everything you
say. j/k
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by Kamui on 01:31:2001 04:43 AM:
"LOL. Good one man. BTW do you remember that Iron Maiden song, The Clairvoyant?
"Just by looking through your eyes he could see the future penetrating right
into your mind, see the truth and see your lies, but for all his power COULDN'T
foresee his own demise". Woah people here do have that kinda power heh heh"
Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental state
is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented. Everybody thinks
there special and or different, but there not, we are all just mixed cases of
the same ideas. Same goes for fighters. %99.9 of the people who play arent
paticularly special. Only that %0.1 truly know what there doing. I can read you
and O.Ryoga like a book. I use to be just like you, i dont need to be able to
read your mind :/
As for the plug in im not sure. Try doing a search like ".asf extension". What
kind of movie players are you using?
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok if that's your opinion what can I say?
Posted by ImMature on 01:31:2001 05:04 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental
state is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented. Everybody
thinks there special and or different, but there not, we are all just mixed
cases of the same ideas. Same goes for fighters.
Erm Kamui just 2 things here:
a) Those shrinks you mention have actually studied Psychiatry before they start
analyzing people
b) Nevertheless more often than not they screw up with their diagnostics anyways
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
%99.9 of the people who play arent paticularly special. Only that %0.1 truly
know what there doing.
Heh I could ask ya the source for that little statistic but it'd be way too
cheap of me
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book. I use to be just like you, i dont need
to be able to read your mind :/
You're 19, ain't ya? Do you realize that Ryoga and I are older than you? How
come we 2 haven't "evolved" yet then?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
As for the plug in im not sure. Try doing a search like ".asf extension". What
kind of movie players are you using?
Dunno; Quicktime, Windows Media, RealPlayer and the such...
Posted by Kamui on 01:31:2001 06:20 AM:
Im 20. However just becuase your older than mean deosnt mean your not confined
by your own anger. The same reason why 40 year olds are still seeing shrinks.
Many a older man has accused athletes of using steroids becuase he lost to them
previously(a case in last years olympics, ofcourse his accusations were false).
Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well, not to say your stupid
ofcourse.
Just try the search as i said, other than that im not sure where to find the
plug in....
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Dunno; Quicktime, Windows Media, RealPlayer and the such...
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 04:05 PM:
"But as i said before i belive nothing in the game is cheap, Just unbalanced
when the teams aren't even. I told you i associate cheapness more to cheating."
Oh, OK.
"get sensitive and say things they don't mean in the heat of battle."
Yup. BTW, do you Americans need a visa to enter Japan? Odd thing as I don't need
one for a short stay (14 days).
"I guess i'll have to say something against your grain again so that you can say
everybody proved me wrong and that i'm stupid so we can start another battle so
i can shoot down everything you say."
You do it . Hey, you may start a "balance in games" thread like Seth Killian
(but you better don't do it the way he did).
Posted by O.Ryoga on 01:31:2001 04:25 PM:
Kamui:
"Ever wonder why so many psychiatrists know what your problem and or mental
state is just by hearing you talk? Its becuase its all documented."
Heh, not only they studied that, but it also boils down to the school they
follow. Freudian school is useless as everything is related to sex, I don't mean
that many problems are related to sex, but my gamming ability is surely not (or
I would be better than japs ).
BTW, there are some psychological tests they do before you enter to work. The
stupidest one is drawing a guy under the rain. If you draw it with nothing else
but a minimum clothing, then you're someone who doesn't take precautions (liking
rainy days is out of question), you must draw him with an umbrella, and it gives
you more points to draw him with a long overcoat (if it's not your dressing
style you'll never have a high score) and if you draw it with pockets it's
better (if you're applying for a programmer job, then you're probably not Da
Vinci). The remaining tests are as retarded as that, so I think psychology
doesn't work too much, it only helps people to talk about their problems and
release what they were carrying but nothing like learning mindsets or stuff like
that.
"I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book."
Tell me, does that book comes with pictures on it? I talked here about
anticipation and it seemed like I was talking in ancient Chinese, but you can
read me like a book, yeah sure.
"I use to be just like you, i dont need to be able to read your mind"
Yeah, tell me, how do I play?
"Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well"
Yeap, ImMature, you always have users and people who praises Microsoft. If you
ever read the tech service mocks you'll know what I mean.
But I think this is not the case. BTW, I bet you can read any Hong Kong guy
mindset and defeat them at KoF right?
ImMature, if you try to open an .asf while connected it will download the
plugin, you may also download the latest media player.
Posted by satsuinohadojosh on 01:31:2001 04:28 PM:
I posted to this topic like a week ago. are we still on this? all i ask is that
you play with style, its just boring seeing the same shit over and over, thats
all. its suck when people play to win, they dont play for fun. thats what all
this comes down to. you wanna win? or you wanna have fun?
personally, id rather have fun.
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/bonsai/akuma.jpg
"But... I'm a Fucking Demon!"
Posted by SithKilla on 01:31:2001 09:16 PM:
O.Ryoga: Read what i posted in "MvC2: Balanced?" Are you ready for round 2? I'm
going to use my post there to start my own topic on this subject too. You should
fight that insane as well.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by ImMature on 01:31:2001 11:27 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Ive also met plenty of stupid 40 year olds as well, not to say your stupid
ofcourse.
Not to say I'm 40 neither I hope. Heh although I still can remember Space
Invaders like it was yesterday I'm not that old yet. So what you're saying is
that the reason why we haven't "evolved" yet is cause we're "confined by our own
anger"? Any tip to get over it then?? We just wanna become Xmen like most people
here at SRK.com, Prof. Xavier sir
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"I can read you and O.Ryoga like a book."
Tell me, does that book comes with pictures on it? I talked here about
anticipation and it seemed like I was talking in ancient Chinese, but you can
read me like a book, yeah sure.
LOL!!
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Yeap, ImMature, you always have users and people who praises Microsoft. If you
ever read the tech service mocks you'll know what I mean.
Hell YEAH. I'm *afraid* I know BTW do you know that I've became a Güindous
defender lately? Had to, learning how to program the API is so much work that
one doesn't feel like learning how to program for other OSs anymore...Fuck
Micro$oft anyways!
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
ImMature, if you try to open an .asf while connected it will download the
plugin, you may also download the latest media player.
Ok thanks, I'll try ASAP
Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 12:27 AM:
"Not to say I'm 40 neither I hope. Heh although I still can remember Space
Invaders like it was yesterday I'm not that old yet. So what you're saying is
that the reason why we haven't "evolved" yet is cause we're "confined by our own
anger"? Any tip to get over it then?? We just wanna become Xmen like most people
here at SRK.com, Prof. Xavier sir"
Sure, just go out and get bitten by a radio active spider or something :P
It all boils down to my main arguement, the reason your still activly protesting
against "cheapness" is becuase you have lost to it in some shape or form many
times before. Becuase of the simplicity of the way he or she beat you, you think
its scrubbish, hence "you are confined by your own anger". I was at a CvS
tourney this weekend. Mark Rygoyski(#2 SF3 player in Texas) had entered with his
Sakura, Ex Yuri, Ryu team. During one match he tick throwed the guy he was
playing 3 times in a row, the guy was obviously not looking for it and got
nailed. However two MAJOR scrubs sitting next to me were making comments like
"this is making me sick", "this guy obviously has no skill". Before they made
those comments Mark had nailed his opponent with my trademark 10 hit Sakura
combo i showed him. The guys were like "oh cool!". I started to argue with them
calling Mark a scrub as he obviously isnt, there main argument was "Theres no
skill involved when thats all he can do", even though by O.Ryogas standards he
did land a "cool flashy combo"(Check his posts in the Dumb SNK Lemmings thread,
thats a quote) multiple times and had a good poke game going. These 2 scrubs
that got absolutly no where in the tourney(they didnt even win a match)still had
the gall to call Mark a scrub. You and Ryoga sound like those fools, and
although i think your better than they were, you should still think about what
your saying...
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok thanks, I'll try ASAP
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 01-31-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 05:16 PM:
Heh, I almost forgot Kamui.
Your story is nice and fancy but, you know, most of these guys you consider so
high (I'm talking about top tier players in US) never gave enough time to the
games to use very varied characters, facing defeat before a Q player. So, you
found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't have
anything to do with me. Did you read where I said that all moves can be used in
tourneys? Did you noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to death,
it's ok to do so? (if he's falling for that he may also fall for something more
complicated as a 10 hit combo so it's your choice to do so or not). I remember
Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him he would tell him
which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each other). Do I need to
tell you that was complete crap? Beware of the Japanese controllers!!!!
Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 07:30 PM:
"So, you found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't
have anything to do with me."
YES IT DOES. Even though you havent been listening, your argument is EXACTLY
LIKE THERES IS. In no way is your argument any better than theres even thought
you think or may be a better player. WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe
your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?
"Did you read where I said that all moves can be used in tourneys? Did you
noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to death, it's ok to do so? (if
he's falling for that he may also fall for something more complicated as a 10
hit combo so it's your choice to do so or not). "
AGAIN, in the Dumb SNK lemmings thread, you said that you thought throwing more
than 3 times in succesion was cheap :/
Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern. Its
safer to attempt a throw and than you land a simple cross up or low combo. Its
not about skill, its about BRAINS. It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney
situation or not, what works, works and is valid in any situation whether you
think its "boring" or not. BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is
not boring, its hilarious.
"I remember Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him he would
tell him which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each other). Do I
need to tell you that was complete crap?"
Why should i care? I dont know nor talk to Valle at all. This another attempt
from you to try and put me in the same group as these idol lovers here at SRK.
"Beware of the Japanese controllers!!!!"
Why, jap joysticks are nice. However i know what your talking about and
althought there really good sticks, they take time to get used to, just like any
other controll device. You dont realise how different Jap joysticks are from
American joysticks, I doubt you have had experience with both to know the
difference as you live in nether countries. Besides Complaining about joystick
problems is a better excuse than "its boring".
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Heh, I almost forgot Kamui.
Your story is nice and fancy but, you know, most of these guys you consider so
high (I'm talking about top tier players in US) never gave enough time to the
games to use very varied characters, facing defeat before a Q player. So, you
found a couple of guys who though #3 was a scrub? So what? It doesn't have
anything to do with me. Did you read where I said that all moves can be used
in tourneys? Did you noticed that if to beat a guy you must throw him to
death, it's ok to do so? (if he's falling for that he may also fall for
something more complicated as a 10 hit combo so it's your choice to do so or
not). I remember Calipower (yeap Valle) telling a guy that before facing him
he would tell him which mistakes he was going to do(they didn't know each
other). Do I need to tell you that was complete crap? Beware of the Japanese
controllers!!!!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 07:50 PM:
Awww, give me a break!!!
"WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is
exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?"
So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter when
you explain me this.
"Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern...Its
not about skill, its about BRAINS"
Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have a
brain problem.
"It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney situation or not, what works,
works and is valid in any situation whether you think its "boring" or not."
So, if it's working why change it? Well, the answer is simple most of the times,
the one that relies in one pattern is the one that doesn't have anything else to
show. In a real challenge I may take the safe path, while during a common match
I may try something better or experiment something else to the safe answer. Hey
I may come up with a brand new technique or a complete defeat but at least I
tried.
"BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is not boring, its hilarious."
Sure.
"This another attempt from you to try and put me in the same group as these idol
lovers here at SRK."
Nah, I if I tried to do so I would have told you that. I was talking about your
ability to read people's mindset using the big champ (or chimp) as an example.
As everyone in SRK believes in that crap.
"they take time to get used to"
But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you
have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it. I
once played with a Jap stick at Garou, and I wasn't unable to do stuff. In my
country, sticks are mostly wacked and have the same style that US ones (guess
the machines are imported from the US and not from Japan).
"Besides Complaining about joystick problems is a better excuse than "its
boring"."
Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great
excuse. (sarcasm alert)
Posted by ImMature on 02:01:2001 09:42 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
YES IT DOES. Even though you havent been listening, your argument is EXACTLY
LIKE THERES IS. In no way is your argument any better than theres even thought
you think or may be a better player. WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe
your a scrub when your argument is exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?
Maybe the fact that we have stated THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of times already that
when someone loses to cheap tactics or whatsoever he better SHUT THE FUCK UP AND
TRAIN HARDER instead of making up excuses. So what do those guys you mentioned
have to do with us then??
Posted by Kamui on 02:01:2001 10:18 PM:
What do they have to do with you??? I just said that your arguments are exactly
theres is, and they were terrible players. In other words, for someone who acts
like they beat such tactics everyday you sure sound like the people who cant.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Maybe the fact that we have stated THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of times already that
when someone loses to cheap tactics or whatsoever he better SHUT THE FUCK UP
AND TRAIN HARDER instead of making up excuses. So what do those guys you
mentioned have to do with us then??
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:01:2001 11:01 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
What do they have to do with you??? I just said that your arguments are
exactly theres is, and they were terrible players. In other words, for someone
who acts like they beat such tactics everyday you sure sound like the people
who cant.
Yawwwwnnnnnn, gee I really have spare time at work (well, I should be working).
So, they talked as they though like us. See, if you bring the Hong Kong champion
to a tourney where a guy throws three times in a row to his opponent, what do
you think he will say? Now, Hong Kong guys must be terrible players, don't you
think? And those japs, I can't get how someone can be so pathetic at MvsC2 (more
sarcasm). Bottom line is, many people may have the same opinion on a subject
regardless of their gamming ability.
Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 05:09 AM:
"So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter
when you explain me this."
Yes you are. Which meaning am i using? Well you sound just like most whining
fools that suck at fighters in general, or thats what you sound like. Opinion
comes from experience, and no one would be saying what your saying unless they
were constantly losing to your deffiniton of cheap.
"Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have
a brain problem."
I can already see it happening to you. BTW go read Seth's new article, it
completely destroys your argument.
"But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you
have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it."
Yes i have a NGCP, and the controller is not very good. Oh and im quite sure
Valle and Choi arent in Japan everyday of the year, so they havent had even a
year to experience Jap joysticks :/
"Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great
excuse."
Muahahahaha, yeap, complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked
by a turtle is great excuse.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Awww, give me a break!!!
"WHAT makes you think i shouldnt believe your a scrub when your argument is
exactly like 2 sideline morons?!?!?"
So, I'm now a scrub... which meaning are you using? I'll answer this matter
when you explain me this.
"Whos going to expect 3 throws in a row? Its a simple mind game pattern...Its
not about skill, its about BRAINS"
Man, you're completely right, if you get thrown three times in a row, you have
a brain problem.
"It also shouldnt matter whether its a tourney situation or not, what works,
works and is valid in any situation whether you think its "boring" or not."
So, if it's working why change it? Well, the answer is simple most of the
times, the one that relies in one pattern is the one that doesn't have
anything else to show. In a real challenge I may take the safe path, while
during a common match I may try something better or experiment something else
to the safe answer. Hey I may come up with a brand new technique or a complete
defeat but at least I tried.
"BTW, seeing somebody get thrown 3 times in a row is not boring, its
hilarious."
Sure.
"This another attempt from you to try and put me in the same group as these
idol lovers here at SRK."
Nah, I if I tried to do so I would have told you that. I was talking about
your ability to read people's mindset using the big champ (or chimp) as an
example. As everyone in SRK believes in that crap.
"they take time to get used to"
But not years. A better controller means a better gamming experience (do you
have a NGPC?). Now it's odd how US people had the opposite reaction to it. I
once played with a Jap stick at Garou, and I wasn't unable to do stuff. In my
country, sticks are mostly wacked and have the same style that US ones (guess
the machines are imported from the US and not from Japan).
"Besides Complaining about joystick problems is a better excuse than "its
boring"."
Muahahahahaaaaa, yeap, complaining about controllers working fine is a great
excuse. (sarcasm alert)
Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 05:19 AM:
"See, if you bring the Hong Kong champion to a tourney where a guy throws three
times in a row to his opponent, what do you think he will say?"
Well after seeing the KOF tourney vids from Singapore im not sure what he would
say. All they did was jumping attacks, im not even exagerating this time, they
were just pure low jumping the ENTIRE game. Apparently these were the best
players in Singapore as well. If my argument is correct(which it is BTW :P) the
mentality behind this type of play is of pure flash, no "cheese", and landing a
big combo(but ofcourse not too big as that would be against the rules, right).
If some idiot decided to complain about what was cheap one day and convinced an
entire country of this, then the type of play im seeing would make much sense
and in the end, those players arent really even that good, theve just avoiding
having to deal with anything truly effective by killing it off before someone
could use it by calling it "cheap". You talk about people doing repedetive
patterns and such being scrubby even though these guys were jumping and only
jumping, incredibly damn repedetive. Bieng totally and udderly random seems
pretty scrubby too, but is that banned to by your standards?
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Yawwwwnnnnnn, gee I really have spare time at work (well, I should be
working).
So, they talked as they though like us. See, if you bring the Hong Kong
champion to a tourney where a guy throws three times in a row to his opponent,
what do you think he will say? Now, Hong Kong guys must be terrible players,
don't you think? And those japs, I can't get how someone can be so pathetic at
MvsC2 (more sarcasm). Bottom line is, many people may have the same opinion on
a subject regardless of their gamming ability.
Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 08:27 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Yes you are. Which meaning am i using? Well you sound just like most whining
fools that suck at fighters in general, or thats what you sound like. Opinion
comes from experience, and no one would be saying what your saying unless they
were constantly losing to your deffiniton of cheap.
Heh chi style of arguing yet *again*. Oh well, you think you can read minds and
tell how do we play from such a long distance, we think you CAN'T. It's a matter
of stubbornness after all (that's the reason why I wouldn't start seriously
arguing with chi neither, y'know?)
BTW Kamui have you ever realized that the fack of you and us being from
different areas can make all those experience about players' mindsets you say
you have totally useless in this discussion? I've already told ya that even
though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's
cheapness, you'd hardly find anyone complaining about it in my area. So what do
you think about this then?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
I can already see it happening to you. BTW go read Seth's new article, it
completely destroys your argument.
Seth AGAIN!!! Oh my gawd Kamui, I never thought you were one of Them too...If
you wanna "destroy our argument" why don't you just try to by yourself??
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Muahahahaha, yeap, complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked
by a turtle is great excuse.
Ok now I see. There are only 2 possibilities here, EXACTLY LIKE USES TO HAPPEN
WITH CHI HERSELF:
a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I
mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded person
in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most people
here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with such an
attitude?!?)
^OR^
b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to try
to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument
So which would it be?
Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 09:49 AM:
"BTW Kamui have you ever realized that the fack of you and us being from
different areas can make all those experience about players' mindsets you say
you have totally useless in this discussion? I've already told ya that even
though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming it on their opponent's
cheapness, you'd hardly find anyone complaining about it in my area. So what do
you think about this then"
BLAH. It deosnt matter where your from, we all feel the same emotions, and i can
guarantee they do, your ether lying or there quiet about it. Besides how do you
know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not complaining about it?
You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they feel about the matter?
Hehehe...Answer that.
"a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I
mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded person
in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most people
here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with such an
attitude?!?)
^OR^
b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to try
to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument
So which would it be?"
Nether. Apparantly if i cant guess what the backing of your mentality is then
you cant guess mine. Correct? Or am i right assume what i have already?
Its funny that you call me closed minded becuase i dont sgree with what your
saying. I dont agree with you and nor do you agree with me, so your just as
closed minded as i am apparantly. You truly are as bad as Seth. You 2 could get
along quite easily.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok now I see. There are only 2 possibilities here, EXACTLY LIKE USES TO HAPPEN
WITH CHI HERSELF:
a) You yourself believe what you're saying. In that case, for the reasons I
mentioned above, I have to regard ya as NOT exactly the most open-minded
person in the world (and frankly, I do hate the 'I-know-it-all' attitude most
people here display, how the fuck can someone keep improving his gameplay with
such an attitude?!?)
^OR^
b) You yourself don't believe what you're saying, and only are resorting to
try to make us look bad in the hopes of winning the argument
So which would it be?
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-01-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:04 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
BLAH. It deosnt matter where your from, we all feel the same emotions, and i
can guarantee they do, your ether lying or there quiet about it.
Hah you ever heard about 'relativity'?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not
complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how
they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that.
When did I say that? And it's that relevant at all?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Its funny that you call me closed minded becuase i dont sgree with what your
saying.
Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points
PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of
wining the argument
Posted by Kamui on 02:02:2001 12:22 PM:
"Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points
PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of
wining the argument"
WHAT?!?!? ARE YOU RETARDED? THIS WAS YOUR LAST QUOTE:
"I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be blaming
it on their opponent's cheapness, YOU'D HARDLY FIND ANYONE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT
IN MY AREA"
So if when i said:
"Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not
complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how they
feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that."
Then i just demolished your agrument, COOKIE FOR ME
MAKING THINGS UP?!?!?! YOU JUST SAID THAT ONE PARAGRAPH A LINE AGO, DID YOU
ALREADY FORGET? KIND OF A SLAP IN THE FACE ISNT IT.
Everything else i said you said were not lies and have been picked out of other
arguments of yours from the Dumb SNK lemmings thread and such. I dont make
things up, and i have been listening to your lame points.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Nope I'm calling ya close-minded cause you're not even listening to our points
PLUS you're assuming/making up things we've never said just for the sake of
wining the argument
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-02-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 04:32 PM:
As ImMature says, Oh Mai!!!
We have another Seth follower. Yeap, a follower of the guy who said SNK fans are
Lemmings when Crapcom fans follow him to the abyss like the real Lemmings do
when they're overpopulated (well, in the US they're overpopulated compared to
SNK players).
"Well you sound just like most whining fools that suck at fighters in general"
Oh yeah, even though that I said losing to cheapness meant you weren't a good
player.
"I can already see it happening to you."
Huh? You really are a clairvoyant. Hey, fortune teller, post 6 numbers from 0 -
44 so I can try and play to the lottery.
"and the controller is not very good"
Now I know I'm talking with the dumbest person in the world. Everybody knows
(and I have the handheld btw) that the controller is the best there is, very
responsive, you never miss a move (if you lose it's your fault not the
controller).
"complaining about how boring it is that your getting rocked by a turtle is
great excuse"
Getting rocked by a turtle? Man, you're really brainwashed if you think you're
seeing something from that distance.
See the video of Chen vs Valle, Valle was doing low kicks all the time.
"Well after seeing the KOF tourney vids from Singapore im not sure what he would
say."
Where were them? The last time you talked crap about KoF players, you directed
me to a common match.
"the mentality behind this type of play is of pure flash, no "cheese", and
landing a big combo"
Nope, it's finding and creating a spot and making a combo using fast reflexes to
outmatch the opponent. But hey, US players tend to go for an easy trap and block
damage (that's why they say Cable is god and Servot is the shittiest character).
"If some idiot decided to complain about what was cheap one day and convinced an
entire country of this"
The only type of idiots that can do that are politicians (did I write it
right?). And all I see here is one idiot with no s-kill that convinced a whole
country they were doing the right thing even when they lost so bad in an
international tourney.
"those players arent really even that good, theve just avoiding having to deal
with anything truly effective by killing it off before someone could use it by
calling it "cheap"."
Oh yeah, they suck bad, that's why they defeated team England (which btw didn't
have the same set of rules).
You have no point at all, guess that if I read Seth's new article, I'll find
most of the stuff you posted here.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 05:38 PM:
Hey Kamui, I've just read Seth's article, and all I can say is that you're
falling in the scrub category (if we consider his definition).
BTW, what a bunch of ass kissing assholes, I couldn't read the entire thread
'cause it was disgusting.
Posted by Sabin on 02:02:2001 05:47 PM:
Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like to
say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye now.
- Arturo
(yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain
whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.)
LOL.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:02:2001 08:13 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Sabin:
Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like
to say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye
now.
- Arturo
(yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain
whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.)
LOL.
Huh, we were missing you. I mean, those talented remarks. I'm glad to see we
entertain you (this is what boards are for, remember?) yet I'm wondering which
posts did you read. BTW, Kamui is just in denial to look good on this board so
don't take him that serious.
BTW, when did anyone say that being a Seth follower made you unable to play SF
games? When did retardness stop people from becoming top tier players at MvsC2?
/forums/biggrin.gif
Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:36 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
WHAT?!?!? ARE YOU RETARDED? THIS WAS YOUR LAST QUOTE:
Tsk, such an anger. This is EXACTLY what makes Yojimbo kick your lame ass in
every argument you have, y'know? He's way smarter. Now I could insult you back,
of course, but as you see, you weak reaction doesn't infuriate me the very
least. So better luck next time
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
"I've already told ya that even though US scrubs' favorite excuse may be
blaming it on their opponent's cheapness, YOU'D HARDLY FIND ANYONE COMPLAINING
ABOUT IT IN MY AREA"
So if when i said:
"Besides how do you know everyone in your area hates "cheapness" if there not
complaining about it? You just told me they dont complain yet you know how
they feel about the matter? Hehehe...Answer that."
Then i just demolished your agrument, COOKIE FOR ME
Yeah keep dreaming (like chi'd do yet again). What I asked was, "Is Cheapness
being not a big cause of whines among scrubs in my area RELEVANT at all in this
argument"?, "Does it prove the non-existance of Cheapness?". Oh Mai, all you
SRK.com guys do is talking about scrubs all day (I wonder why)
Posted by ImMature on 02:02:2001 10:40 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Sabin:
Hi guys, even though I promised I wouldn't post here again, I would just like
to say this thread is hilarious, and that Kamui is my hero. OK thank you, bye
now.
Oh you managed to actually read the thread this time? Good for you Dasr...I
mean, Arturito
quote:
Originally posted by Sabin:
(yes, I am nothing but a "Seth Follower", I am just a retard with no brain
whatsoever and I get killed when it comes to playing SF competively.)
LOL.
Okaaaay, we already know you're a super duper MvC2 trooper. Stop repeating it,
we're not impressed. Now if you talk about a REAL game you are good at, maybe
you'll earn any respect from us...
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:02:2001 10:57 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Hey Kamui, I've just read Seth's article, and all I can say is that you're
falling in the scrub category (if we consider his definition).
BTW, what a bunch of ass kissing assholes, I couldn't read the entire thread
'cause it was disgusting.
OH MY GOD, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!!!
For a moment I thought that some coherent ideas and arguments were actually
being discussed. Now the flaming and the shaming has begun again. Oh well.
It seems that Kamui is determined to argue this point until everyone agrees with
him. STOP WASTING YOUR BREATH, KAMUI. These guys will never agree with you or
your points, you're just giving them infinite entertainment by continuosly
posting and answering them. Don't devote your life to proving that you're right.
Just let it slide. Peace.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Gamer X on 02:02:2001 11:14 PM:
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS SHIT!!!! Let it go and
talk about something else. No matter what fighting game you are playing, no
matter how balanced, inbalanced, working joysticks, gliches and bugs there
always be some unfair way of winning a game. Call it "cheap" or call it "skill"
just let this subject die please and...
Just play the damn game and quit cring.
Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 03:57 AM:
WTF, again, thank you Immature, you just avoided my point AGAIN. I just put you
on the spot called you on your mistake and instead of defending against it you
ignored it and again are starting to call me "Chi" again. AND it is very
relevant, it all comes down to dumb scrubs whining about cheapness in the end.
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Yeah keep dreaming (like chi'd do yet again). What I asked was, "Is Cheapness
being not a big cause of whines among scrubs in my area RELEVANT at all in
this argument"?, "Does it prove the non-existance of Cheapness?". Oh Mai, all
you SRK.com guys do is talking about scrubs all day (I wonder why)
Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 03:58 AM:
"super duper MvC2 trooper"
LOL. As much as i disagree, thats a great line, mind if i use it?
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Okaaaay, we already know you're a super duper MvC2 trooper. Stop repeating it,
we're not impressed. Now if you talk about a REAL game you are good at, maybe
you'll earn any respect from us...
Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 04:30 AM:
Nope sorry. i have to keep going. I dont drop arguments for anything, never have
never will. It only takes 15 minutes of my day to answer to them anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
OH MY GOD, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!!!
For a moment I thought that some coherent ideas and arguments were actually
being discussed. Now the flaming and the shaming has begun again. Oh well.
It seems that Kamui is determined to argue this point until everyone agrees
with him. STOP WASTING YOUR BREATH, KAMUI. These guys will never agree with
you or your points, you're just giving them infinite entertainment by
continuosly posting and answering them. Don't devote your life to proving that
you're right. Just let it slide. Peace.
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif">
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 04:46 AM:
.........Ugh...I dont care what people on this forum think of me. Thnx for
insulting me now i get bashing rights...Your an idiot, plain and simple. You
still havent gotten over your own ignorance. Everyday, every word, every thought
of negativity towards what you think is cheap is making you into worse player
everyday. I know from personal experience, why you think your different from
everyone else is beyond me, becuase your not. Deluding yourself into thinking
anything is cheap is only your innability to deal with it. No one on this earth
comes up with such generalizations from winning, no one. Only such ideals emerge
when your losing, and offer you emotional protection. Your human, i understand
why you do it. Its too bad your to "little" to get over such a "hump". No your
not a good player, i know your not. Your ideal has earned you nothing but an
easy way out, youll never know what true depth/skill is. Its too bad really,
after watching a few recent games ive been able to see a few good players use
REAL strategy when playing KOF, the game you love so much. But, youll never play
it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your mentality is destroying
the game, not SNK merging with Aruze. Goto kofonline.com and download the recent
Sinagpore tourney videos. How many times did they jump? They didnt use strategy,
they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo, being nothing but offensive.
You can do that with any character. There is no strategy involved in that, and
thats exactly the play style that your belief is leading too...Your a scrub, get
over it and redeem yourself. Become a better player, change your mindset like i
did a year ago. Dont let fears of such things as "cheapness" own you.
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Huh, we were missing you. I mean, those talented remarks. I'm glad to see we
entertain you (this is what boards are for, remember?) yet I'm wondering which
posts did you read. BTW, Kamui is just in denial to look good on this board so
don't take him that serious.
BTW, when did anyone say that being a Seth follower made you unable to play SF
games? When did retardness stop people from becoming top tier players at
MvsC2? <IMG SRC="/forums/biggrin.gif">
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:03:2001 05:46 PM:
Awwww...Kamui is becoming tense and has started whinning.
"I dont care what people on this forum think of me."
That's being on denial. Reading some of the replies to Seth articles and seeing
how you blindly used them, not seeing you were following into his precious
definition of scrub makes you seem you try to agree without thinking.
"Thnx for insulting me now"
Which one was my insult? You insulted ImMature calling him a retard and both of
us with the multiple use "scrub" word. Now you are whinning, you should take
defeats like a man and not cry "cheapness" to the winner.
"Your an idiot, plain and simple."
Aww, I'm touched. (sarcasm alert)
"You still havent gotten over your own ignorance."
Heh, more nonsense bashing. You've lost the line kid. You should try to get away
from videogames a while, you're taking them too seriously (this last sentence
was not a joke).
"Everyday, every word, every thought of negativity towards what you think is
cheap is making you into worse player everyday."
Nope. You see, I've used cheap tactics as it's the only way to know how to
overcome them, while other people seem to rely on them. Think what you want, but
taking the "cheapness existance" discussion to the personal ground calling me a
scrub and rambling about knowing my style is rather weak as an argument (as you
really have no proof).
"I know from personal experience, why you think your different from everyone
else is beyond me, becuase your not."
Sorry, the full comprehension of the human mind is beyond the abilities of a
psychologist, so I don't think brag like you has such a developed sense.
"Deluding yourself into thinking anything is cheap is only your innability to
deal with it."
Awww, how many times should I tell you it's not about losing to something (I
gave you plenty of cheap tactics with their countermeasures but you seem to skip
them).
"No one on this earth comes up with such generalizations from winning, no one."
What are you crying about?
"Only such ideals emerge when your losing, and offer you emotional protection.
Your human, i understand why you do it."
Sorry but I stopped being mommy's kid long ago. If you need emotional protection
over defeats, then I'm sorry about you.
"No your not a good player, i know your not."
I can read minds! I can read your mind! Can't I mom?
"Your ideal has earned you nothing but an easy way out, youll never know what
true depth/skill is."
Oh yeah!!! See, Japs have those ideals and they don't seem to have earned
anything to you (they lost badly at MvsC2, right?). On the other hand US players
have, and they have superior skills. Obviously I'm being sarcastic, it's
noticeable that US players don't try characters unless they are regarded as
effective or easy to use (Q was underrated before the trip to Japan remember?)
while japs try everything in the game and not only what it's working, giving
them the advantage.
"But, youll never play it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your
mentality is destroying the game, not SNK merging with Aruze."
Yeap, I'm in a campaign against KoF. Note more sarcasm, you're not making sense
at all.
"They didnt use strategy, they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo,
being nothing but offensive."
I've explained you the insights of that style, but if you don't get it (or it's
too hard for you to do so) I cannot do anything to help you. I don't play the
overoffensive style not because I think it's cheap, I just don't enjoy it. Your
strategy is having two traps and repeat them ad infinitum regardless of what
your opponent is throwing at you.
"Your a scrub, get over it and redeem yourself."
Or father Torquemada will punish me. Sorry, but I'm no scrub, sure I'm not one
of those guys that pretend are the greatest winners and they don't figure in any
world wide tourney.
"Become a better player, change your mindset like i did a year ago. Dont let
fears of such things as "cheapness" own you."
So, become a blind follower of the cult and stop thinking. What makes you think
I fear anything? I don't fear any technique, I don't even fear defeat (and I
never come up with excuses).
So stop crying over defeats, nobody does (not in my area) and believe me I'm not
the exception.
Posted by Jusatsu on 02:03:2001 05:47 PM:
SHUT UP
http://www.geocities.com/hubbardofandrew/sig.jpg
Tyler says use soap. The army uses guns. Dealers say do dope. The pope tends to
do nuns. The lovers say elope. The french use kilotons. I tend to use Gato.
MOU-KO KOU HAZAN!!!
Posted by Kamui on 02:03:2001 10:42 PM:
Well im done with this topic. Your not listening. Becuase of your inability to
understand youve come up with lines like "Your not making any sense" when i make
perfect sense. You also keep mentioning ive been defeated without you putting up
any real argument, signs of the real loser. Ok im done, good luck to you and
your quest for KOF enlightenment :/
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Awwww...Kamui is becoming tense and has started whinning.
"I dont care what people on this forum think of me."
That's being on denial. Reading some of the replies to Seth articles and
seeing how you blindly used them, not seeing you were following into his
precious definition of scrub makes you seem you try to agree without thinking.
"Thnx for insulting me now"
Which one was my insult? You insulted ImMature calling him a retard and both
of us with the multiple use "scrub" word. Now you are whinning, you should
take defeats like a man and not cry "cheapness" to the winner.
"Your an idiot, plain and simple."
Aww, I'm touched. (sarcasm alert)
"You still havent gotten over your own ignorance."
Heh, more nonsense bashing. You've lost the line kid. You should try to get
away from videogames a while, you're taking them too seriously (this last
sentence was not a joke).
"Everyday, every word, every thought of negativity towards what you think is
cheap is making you into worse player everyday."
Nope. You see, I've used cheap tactics as it's the only way to know how to
overcome them, while other people seem to rely on them. Think what you want,
but taking the "cheapness existance" discussion to the personal ground calling
me a scrub and rambling about knowing my style is rather weak as an argument
(as you really have no proof).
"I know from personal experience, why you think your different from everyone
else is beyond me, becuase your not."
Sorry, the full comprehension of the human mind is beyond the abilities of a
psychologist, so I don't think brag like you has such a developed sense.
"Deluding yourself into thinking anything is cheap is only your innability to
deal with it."
Awww, how many times should I tell you it's not about losing to something (I
gave you plenty of cheap tactics with their countermeasures but you seem to
skip them).
"No one on this earth comes up with such generalizations from winning, no
one."
What are you crying about?
"Only such ideals emerge when your losing, and offer you emotional protection.
Your human, i understand why you do it."
Sorry but I stopped being mommy's kid long ago. If you need emotional
protection over defeats, then I'm sorry about you.
"No your not a good player, i know your not."
I can read minds! I can read your mind! Can't I mom?
"Your ideal has earned you nothing but an easy way out, youll never know what
true depth/skill is."
Oh yeah!!! See, Japs have those ideals and they don't seem to have earned
anything to you (they lost badly at MvsC2, right?). On the other hand US
players have, and they have superior skills. Obviously I'm being sarcastic,
it's noticeable that US players don't try characters unless they are regarded
as effective or easy to use (Q was underrated before the trip to Japan
remember?) while japs try everything in the game and not only what it's
working, giving them the advantage.
"But, youll never play it that way, becuase it would be cheap to do so....Your
mentality is destroying the game, not SNK merging with Aruze."
Yeap, I'm in a campaign against KoF. Note more sarcasm, you're not making
sense at all.
"They didnt use strategy, they just jumped all day and tried to land a combo,
being nothing but offensive."
I've explained you the insights of that style, but if you don't get it (or
it's too hard for you to do so) I cannot do anything to help you. I don't play
the overoffensive style not because I think it's cheap, I just don't enjoy it.
Your strategy is having two traps and repeat them ad infinitum regardless of
what your opponent is throwing at you.
"Your a scrub, get over it and redeem yourself."
Or father Torquemada will punish me. Sorry, but I'm no scrub, sure I'm not one
of those guys that pretend are the greatest winners and they don't figure in
any world wide tourney.
"Become a better player, change your mindset like i did a year ago. Dont let
fears of such things as "cheapness" own you."
So, become a blind follower of the cult and stop thinking. What makes you
think I fear anything? I don't fear any technique, I don't even fear defeat
(and I never come up with excuses).
So stop crying over defeats, nobody does (not in my area) and believe me I'm
not the exception.
Posted by ImMature on 02:03:2001 11:46 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Well im done with this topic. Your not listening. Becuase of your inability to
understand youve come up with lines like "Your not making any sense" when i
make perfect sense. You also keep mentioning ive been defeated without you
putting up any real argument, signs of the real loser. Ok im done, good luck
to you and your quest for KOF enlightenment :/
Ok so you give it up too. NEXT!
BTW like I said before at ON.com all your arguments can be sumarized like this:
"If you disagree you're wrong, scrub". And we've already read that line before
as it's the main argument among the Seth followers anyways...
Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:04:2001 12:32 AM:
I've always wonder about the frase "if it's in the game it was meant to be
there" do we really know what that programer was thinking of when he came up
with that section in the game! the answer is no. only the programer know what
he/she was thinking of at the time. So for someone to say "that it was meant in
the game" needs to rethink exactly what they are talking about.
as for cheapness does exist it depends on the game itself there are some games
where one character has a advantage over(unbreakable tactics)the other. or
depending on which side you play on(I think it is in one of the alpha games can
anyone comfirm this) so cheapness is subjective.
It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is
dumber.
Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 01:22 AM:
Thats not what i was saying at all, i was pointing out your mind set is that of
most beginners, but again THAT DEOSNT MEAN YOU ARE ONE, only that i thought you
may have missed something in your "quest".
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok so you give it up too. NEXT!
BTW like I said before at ON.com all your arguments can be sumarized like
this: "If you disagree you're wrong, scrub". And we've already read that line
before as it's the main argument among the Seth followers anyways...
Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 01:49 AM:
Kamui - not to be off-topic, as it's typically one I choose to ignore, but I
played you in the UH Tourney. Second round. Name's Adam, right? Good to meet
you. Even if I didn't know you were you.
http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif
Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 02:14 AM:
You did? Who were you BTW? Oh wait, were you the white guy with glasses playing
Magneto?
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Deelite:
Kamui - not to be off-topic, as it's typically one I choose to ignore, but I
played you in the UH Tourney. Second round. Name's Adam, right? Good to meet
you. Even if I didn't know you were you.
<IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif">
Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 02:27 AM:
Yep. White guy, glasses, Pioneer Premier shirt, playing Magneto. Shook your hand
after game, said, "Good game."
That was me.
http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif
Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:04:2001 03:01 AM:
I'm just curious would you consider the Red Venom/Spiderman lockdown "meant to
be" or "cheap" you tell me. I've seen fist fights happen because of it.
It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is
dumber.
Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 05:32 AM:
Wierd, i had a feeling it was you. You seemed to play very well, ill be looking
forward to watching you play again! Hehehe Im terrible at the game, and i dont
play it, but it was fun acting like a moron playing Sakura :P
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Deelite:
Yep. White guy, glasses, Pioneer Premier shirt, playing Magneto. Shook your
hand after game, said, "Good game."
That was me.
<IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif">
Posted by Dr. Deelite on 02:04:2001 05:36 AM:
Ah, thanks, Kamui. If you're at all interested, me, NooNoo (he was at UH tourney
also), KAOS, DarthSalamander (also at tourney), mopreme, and hsien will be at
Einstein's tomorrow. Feel free to join.
http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif
Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 06:42 AM:
Ack, well i guessed i missed out, i just got the message. In any case ill talk
to Mopreme about how it went...
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Deelite:
Ah, thanks, Kamui. If you're at all interested, me, NooNoo (he was at UH
tourney also), KAOS, DarthSalamander (also at tourney), mopreme, and hsien
will be at Einstein's tomorrow. Feel free to join.
<IMG SRC="http://www.khaotika.com/images/tags/drdee.gif">
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:04:2001 08:34 AM:
Hooray, everyone's being friendly again, break out the Jack Daniel's, Tatoo!!
Heh heh, right boss!
Thank God, no more animosity. Of course, who's to say it won't start again?
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Kamui on 02:04:2001 09:07 AM:
Actually it moved elsewhere. Im now the most hated person on Orochinagi.com
apparently for trying to stop someone from using racist comments...
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Hooray, everyone's being friendly again, break out the Jack Daniel's, Tatoo!!
Heh heh, right boss!
Thank God, no more animosity. Of course, who's to say it won't start again?
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif">
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by ImMature on 02:04:2001 09:54 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Actually it moved elsewhere. Im now the most hated person on Orochinagi.com
apparently for trying to stop someone from using racist comments...
This is simply NOT TRUE and you already know it. Or you should anyways. Just
stop blaming others for you being unable to get a clue yet. Everybody who's read
those threads already know YOU are the one acting like he has lost it totally...
Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 10:18 AM:
Haven't read any of the hundreds of posts before this one, but I'll just offer
up my opinion on cheapness.
It does exist, it just doesn't matter.
Infinites are kind of cheap...MvC1 Wolvie was cheap, Guard Breaking is cheap,
Gambit glitch is HELLA cheap.
But if someone hits me with an infinite, or uses a Guard Break, I don't care.
Just because something's cheap doesn't mean it shouldn't be used.
Gambit glitch is a whole different thing though...if someone glitches me with
like 80 seconds left on the clock...that's pretty gay. Don't ask me to define
"gay," because you all know what I mean. You just don't play that person
anymore, or until they change teams. Even with the Gambit glitch though, there
are ways to get around it (ie. kill Gambit). Game-breaking stuff should be kept
out of tourneys not because it's cheap...but because it makes the game retarded.
And the Gambit glitch does that extremely well.
Gonna go read some of these posts now. Later.
Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:04:2001 10:28 AM:
Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and
wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make
excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for
any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be
strong.
Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 11:40 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Lee:
Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and
wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make
excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for
any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be
strong.
Yup.
Posted by TS on 02:04:2001 01:12 PM:
Even though the subject of what's cheap isn't being talked about anymore, I'd
just like to respond to something.
quote:
For all of you who have an 'anything goes' attitude on the games, ask
tournament organizers why they do not allow Akuma to be played in Super Turbo
tournaments. In fact, I'm asking it right now. Why isn't Akuma allowed to be
played in tournament play in ST?? Do you want the long answer or the short
answer? (By the way, the short answer is - you guessed it - 'cause he's
CHEAP). For those of you who don't know much about this, Akuma in ST has a
double-air fireball, almost twice as fast as other characters (literally), and
has virtually no dizzy - among other things! He is not a glitch. Programmers
put him in the game on purpose.
Akuma isn't used, because he makes the game stupid. He's not Bison or Ryu or
Dhalsim or Balrog, who are just really good...he devolves the whole game into
Akuma vs Akuma match.
And yes the programmers did put him in the game, but yes he IS a secret
character. ST Akuma wasn't meant to be good...he was meant to be the best
character in the game, and by a wide margin (and you just explained how it was
done yourself). He shuts down Balrog, who is one of the best characters in the
game, for absolutley free.
Simply throwing a lot, or using throws/chip damage in the VS games doesn't come
close to ST Akuma...they don't distill 32 playable characters down to 1.
quote:
Want another example? How about the different "isms" in SFA3? In a tournament,
why can't I use the "ism" of my choice? It's in the game, right? Well... (see
above)
Because in some cases a single throw can do 100% damage. Makes the game stupid.
And in A3 tournaments, your options are still very open for the most part. You
can use A/V/X/N characters, so that's basically 112 possible playable characters
given the size of the cast.
Being able to end the match victorious simply because you pulled into the lead
at some point or another for less than 5 seconds (MvC2 Gambit glitch), or taking
off 90-100% because you landed one throw (L-ISM glitches), or shutting down
every other character but the one you're playing (ST Gouki), doesn't equate with
some of the examples given. Not with rolling back and forth with Blanka, not
with some bad Honda playing vs a Ryu (I doubt your Honda skills greatly), and
not the vast majority of things you can do in most fighting games. They don't
break the game.
If somebody can't get past something, let them know. "You know you can jab
Blanka out of that roll." "You know in Hyper Fighting and afterwards Honda's
butt drop will go through fireballs on start up. And you can jump straight up vs
fireballs, and trading hits with Honda is almost always in his favor."
If you want to educate somebody a little, and make them a better player...great.
But don't blame others because they don't choose to do so.
Though I suppose I personally am the worst of both worlds, as I neither educate,
or give tough love...I just use time spent vs a bad opponent, practicing my own
stuff.
Hm.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. Have a good day, everybody.
Posted by KungfuJoe on 02:05:2001 01:09 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Lee:
Glitches are not cool. But everything else is fair game. I take my loses and
wins like a man. No excuses. If you crushed me, so be it. I will not make
excuses to take away any credit from my opponent. I need to come prepared for
any and everything my foe might throw at me. Gaming can be war and I must be
strong.
the only glitch that is OK even in tourney plays eyes is the juggy glitch
because it has know true major impact in the game.
It's not that we are better than everyone. Its just that everyone else is
dumber.
Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 04:27 AM:
Look, I dont want to keep this going for much longer, its just making me angry,
but Endless has been doing this for a while, you stated so YOURSELF. No one can
say it didnt bother them as everytime he did bring it up someone posted
something about, just without the extremes of my attitude. Someone needs to do
something about it. Nothing is going to change anything unless raving lunatic
comes along to full out tell them where they went wrong. Again, i dont care if
you think im a lunatic or not, hes gonna understand were he went wrong whether
he fully admits it or not. You yourself may not be bother by it, but i guarantee
im mnot the only one angered by such words...
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
This is simply NOT TRUE and you already know it. Or you should anyways. Just
stop blaming others for you being unable to get a clue yet. Everybody who's
read those threads already know YOU are the one acting like he has lost it
totally...
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-04-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:42 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Look, I dont want to keep this going for much longer, its just making me
angry, but Endless has been doing this for a while, you stated so YOURSELF. No
one can say it didnt bother them as everytime he did bring it up someone
posted something about, just without the extremes of my attitude. Someone
needs to do something about it.
Yeah someone needs to GET A FUCKING CLUE for once. Guess who?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Nothing is going to change anything unless raving lunatic comes along to full
out tell them where they went wrong. Again, i dont care if you think im a
lunatic or not, hes gonna understand were he went wrong whether he fully
admits it or not. You yourself may not be bother by it, but i guarantee im
mnot the only one angered by such words...
You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then??
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:24 AM:
Alright, that's it. I am sick and tired of this crap.
I am only going to ask this question once, and if I don't get an intelligent
response minus any flaming, I am going to puke.
ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat,
then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for
you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of,
IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making
so much trouble over it??
And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing
but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What
have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame people.
Why? "Because they are Seth Followers, and they are Seth Followers because they
disagree with me and O.Ryoga and their opinion just happens to coincide with
Seth's, so they're just kissing up to him (well, only a few of them really are,
but I can say they all are, can't I?)."
In all honesty, why is it so important for you to prove that cheapness exists?
Why do you care?
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 09:35 AM:
"Yeah someone needs to GET A FUCKING CLUE for once. Guess who?"
Thnx for ignoring what i said. Its the same reason Endless has stopped posting
at the thread, becuase he knows what he said was stupid and the easiest way for
him make himself look good is too let everybody else do his arguing for him(does
this sound like someone who is sure enough about his own words when he cant even
fight for himself?).
"You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then?"
Setsuna X, and Geese Howard both mentioned not agreeing with him, this time and
the time before. Endless's "fact" keeps popping up in arguments, how many times
are people going to have to kindly tell him were hes wrong before he stops?
Theres been 3 major threads about his ideas already and his masterfull "line"
has popped multiple times in arguments so he can prove his "point". Hes trying
hard to get people to believe what he saying, which is you know is wrong.
Let me ask you something. Ignoring whether you like me or not, ignoring that you
even know Endless, do agree with him saying the remark at all??? Is it even
needed???
Now you mentioned him saying it multiple times on another forum(other than the
multiple times ive seen him say it already). The first time he said it i was
very calm and quiet about my response and i kindly noted for him to atleast
avoid saying it, he did again later. I asked him not to say it again, he said it
anyways. How long did i have to be nice to him before i would stop bieng a total
ass about a touchy subject as it is? Please answer me atleast this....
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
You're not the only one? Who-fucking-else then??
Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:05:2001 09:37 AM:
I hope all threads about cheapness end. We all are players here, so let's just
play ball! There's no room for crying in gaming.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:41 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Lee:
I hope all threads about cheapness end. We all are players here, so let's just
play ball! There's no room for crying in gaming.
Exactly what I was saying! Thank you Brandon! Why does everyone care about
cheapness? It's no big deal!
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 09:42 AM:
WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH....Calm down...We arent talking about that anymore, this is
about another issue. The cheapness argument is over...No need to worry about it,
its gone.
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Alright, that's it. I am sick and tired of this crap.
I am only going to ask this question once, and if I don't get an intelligent
response minus any flaming, I am going to puke.
ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to
beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so
important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form
you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why
are you making so much trouble over it??
And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing
but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What
have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame
people. Why? "Because they are Seth Followers, and they are Seth Followers
because they disagree with me and O.Ryoga and their opinion just happens to
coincide with Seth's, so they're just kissing up to him (well, only a few of
them really are, but I can say they all are, can't I?)."
In all honesty, why is it so important for you to prove that cheapness exists?
Why do you care?
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif">
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Brandon Lee on 02:05:2001 09:45 AM:
If you think the game is cheap, then why would you play it? Why would you waste
your money playing a game you do not like? Complaining about the game will not
change a thing. Unless you talk to Capcom, there is nothing you can do but play
the game and deal with it or just refuse to play. It is really that simple.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 09:47 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH....Calm down...We arent talking about that anymore, this is
about another issue. The cheapness argument is over...No need to worry about
it, its gone.
That's one of my complaints, Kamui. No one's talking about the topic anymore,
it's turned into a personal issue and flame session, which is stupid.
I just want to know why everyone is so bent on proving that cheapness exists
that they would carry this crap on for so long.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 09:55 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
ImMature, if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to
beat, then WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so
important for you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form
you speak of, IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why
are you making so much trouble over it??
Ok now you're asking an interesting question. Why am I making so much trouble
over it? Well you've registered at ON.com already, so now go and check if I'm
complaining about Cheapness all day there (meaning in KOF forums) or not. OF
COURSE I'm not. Do you wanna know what really makes me sick about all this? That
someone (Seth) starts making up really far-fectched theories ONLY SRK.com people
seem to believe IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD and almost EVERYBODY here BUYS it
like it was a divine revelation or something, forgetting about what both COMMON
SENSE & EXPERIENCE tells ya to believe. Most people here hasn't got either the
brains or the balls to start disagreeing with the top tiers/the majority here
cause there is always a lot of guys (like yourself BTW) ready to start ganging
up on the one who DARES to do such a thing. It's JUST THE SAME THING that makes
me sick about Nazis, Christian fundamentalists and the likes of 'em: they're
just a bunch of close-minded self-righteous FUCKWITS who happen to think they
know it all and that everyone else is wrong *BEFOREHAND*
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
And I am sick and tired of your bullshit. You talk about people doing nothing
but flaming you for having an opinion. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR A SECOND. What
have you been doing while you are here? Half of the time you just flame
people.
I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 10:09 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok now you're asking an interesting question. Why am I making so much trouble
over it? Well you've registered at ON.com already, so now go and check if I'm
complaining about Cheapness all day there (meaning in KOF forums) or not. OF
COURSE I'm not. Do you wanna know what really makes me sick about all this?
That someone (Seth) starts making up really far-fectched theories ONLY SRK.com
people seem to believe IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD and almost EVERYBODY here
BUYS it like it was a divine revelation or something, forgetting about what
both COMMON SENSE & EXPERIENCE tells ya to believe. Most people here hasn't
got either the brains or the balls to start disagreeing with the top tiers/the
majority here cause there is always a lot of guys (like yourself BTW) ready to
start ganging up on the one who DARES to do such a thing. It's JUST THE SAME
THING that makes me sick about Nazis, Christian fundamentalists and the likes
of 'em: they're just a bunch of close-minded self-righteous FUCKWITS who
happen to think they know it all and that everyone else is wrong *BEFOREHAND*
THIS IS PURE BULLSHIT!! GO BACK AND READ WHAT I FUCKING POSTED IN THE OTHER
FORUMS ABOUT MY OPINIONS! NOW WHAT!!!
Let me shove this crap right through your thick skull so you can finally fucking
get it.....MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, NO ONE ELSE'S. GET IT!! DO YOU FINALLY
FUCKING GET IT!!!!! I had my opinions LONG BEFORE I even started posting at this
site. So shut the fuck up. You do not know what I am thinking about. Not once
have I ganged up on someone for disagreeing with SETH'S opinions, only my own. I
am starting to fucking HATE Seth because everyone thinks that he's the
ringleader around here, and the fact that my thoughts happen to cross with his
suddenly makes me a mindless automaton who can't think for himself, which is a
huge load of garbage.
If it disgusts you to see people agree with each other, then get lost. You don't
bring anything helpful or positive to this site AT ALL. All you do is go out of
your way to make trouble and hurt people's feelings. Go back to orochinagi.com
where you at least have some semblance of kindness.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 10:11 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself
Fight back, my ass. You start half of the crap, and you know it. You started it
with me and you know that too. Don't give me that shit about how I flamed you
first.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 10:14 AM:
"It's JUST THE SAME THING that makes me sick about Nazis, Christian
fundamentalists and the likes of 'em: they're just a bunch of close-minded
self-righteous FUCKWITS who happen to think they know it all and that everyone
else is wrong *BEFOREHAND*"
Ok wait...Your telling me your not even slightly angry at Endless for what he
said and you say this line? Endless is acting the same why as the "groups" you
just described...
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
I call that to FIGHT BACK. How 'bout you? Now go & check for yourself
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:18 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Thnx for ignoring what i said. Its the same reason Endless has stopped posting
at the thread, becuase he knows what he said was stupid and the easiest way
for him make himself look good is too let everybody else do his arguing for
him(does this sound like someone who is sure enough about his own words when
he cant even fight for himself?).
Look, Endless has stopped posting just cause he's already realized that trying
to reason with ya is just as pointless as trying to reason with chi herself. So
he got bored of it just like I got bored of Darwin's stuff at the Yojimbo thread
and told 'im that he had won
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Setsuna X, and Geese Howard both mentioned not agreeing with him, this time
and the time before. Endless's "fact" keeps popping up in arguments, how many
times are people going to have to kindly tell him were hes wrong before he
stops? Theres been 3 major threads about his ideas already and his masterfull
"line" has popped multiple times in arguments so he can prove his "point". Hes
trying hard to get people to believe what he saying, which is you know is
wrong.
Let me ask you something. Ignoring whether you like me or not, ignoring that
you even know Endless, do agree with him saying the remark at all??? Is it
even needed???
He's just saying what his personal experience tells him to believe. What the
fuck do you want him to do, to act like a hypocrite instead?? And NO, I don't
personally believe that it's impossible for whites to beat Asians in fighting
games, I've done it myself several times before. But SO WHAT? I don't think that
acting like a hypocrite just to please the majority is of any use anyways. I
praise Endless cause he has the balls to say what he really thinks even though
if I disagree with him. So what's the problem??
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Now you mentioned him saying it multiple times on another forum(other than the
multiple times ive seen him say it already). The first time he said it i was
very calm and quiet about my response and i kindly noted for him to atleast
avoid saying it, he did again later. I asked him not to say it again, he said
it anyways. How long did i have to be nice to him before i would stop bieng a
total ass about a touchy subject as it is? Please answer me atleast this....
I don't really get why do you care that much in the 1st place...Like I said,
you're the ONLY one to get offended by this
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:30 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
Let me shove this crap right through your thick skull so you can finally
fucking get it.....MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, NO ONE ELSE'S. GET IT!! DO YOU
FINALLY FUCKING GET IT!!!!! I had my opinions LONG BEFORE I even started
posting at this site. So shut the fuck up. You do not know what I am thinking
about. Not once have I ganged up on someone for disagreeing with SETH'S
opinions, only my own.
Ok if you say so (*Sigh*)
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
I am starting to fucking HATE Seth because everyone thinks that he's the
ringleader around here,
Read my lips now: he IS the ringleader around here and this is a FACT
quote:
Originally posted by Beast of Fire:
If it disgusts you to see people agree with each other, then get lost. You
don't bring anything helpful or positive to this site AT ALL. All you do is go
out of your way to make trouble and hurt people's feelings. Go back to
orochinagi.com where you at least have some semblance of kindness.
Yeah of course I'm not that harsh at ON.com. Wanna know why? Cause people there
can think for themselves PRETTY MUCH UNLIKE THE MAJORITY HERE. Hah I used to
think people who liked Crapcom fighters were not exactly the brightest bulbs
around...but since I started visiting SRK.com I'm *sure* of it without the
shadow of a doubt...
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 10:39 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Ok wait...Your telling me your not even slightly angry at Endless for what he
said and you say this line? Endless is acting the same why as the "groups" you
just described...
NO I'm not even slightly angry at Endless at all. He can believe whatever he
wants based on his own personal experience. And YEAH, in case you're wondering,
I'd just love to have the chance to play him to (maybe) demonstrate 'im that we
whites can be as much into KOF as Asians are. I don't feel so insecure about it,
y'know?
Posted by Kamui on 02:05:2001 11:34 AM:
Maybe your right, im starting to think im overeacting too, but it still bothers
me admmitedly. He seems to bring it up as much as possible...You even mentioned
how you hated Nazi's and such above yet your not tackling Endless, i dont know
why. Its bugging me, but ill try to be quiet about it from now on as long as it
deosnt go too far, but i will be watching.
I also dont want him to think im talking behind his back ether, feel free to
lead him here as well if you want...
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
NO I'm not even slightly angry at Endless at all. He can believe whatever he
wants based on his own personal experience. And YEAH, in case you're
wondering, I'd just love to have the chance to play him to (maybe) demonstrate
'im that we whites can be as much into KOF as Asians are. I don't feel so
insecure about it, y'know?
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-04-2001).]
Posted by TS on 02:05:2001 01:32 PM:
s-kill: at night, the sky is usally darker than it is at day time.
forum_member: yup, seems like.
ImMature: man do I hate you and your cult. damn crapcom zombies.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 04:48 PM:
Sorry pals, I've been out during weekend because of personal problems. I'll
answer Breast of Fire question, 'cause Kamui is using Seth's hidden technique:
If your argument is not strong enough against your opponent's one, just put him
on the scrub side and discredit his words (without giving a single fact nor
making sense at all).
"if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then WHY
ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for you to
prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of, IT'S NO
BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you making so much
trouble over it??"
Well, you see, I'm gonna make a crystal clear comparison between cheapness and
drugs. I know it's a bit too much, but it's the best comparison I could make to
clearly show my point. Here it goes:
Firstly, I should point that cheap is big reward for a low effort (leave outside
supers).
There are many reasons why people use drugs, one of them is to avoid problems
(the one I'll center my case). So they have problems they cannot overcome or
they just don't have the balls or initiative to overcome so they try the easy
way of avoiding it that is using drugs. Of course, the problem is still there,
and they even added a new problem to their lifes, but they feel successful. This
new problem is that they became dependant of the drug they're using 'cause it's
the only way to avoid problems.
Now onto the cheap stuff. Some people have the problem that they don't have
enough skill or they're just lazy to train a character and lose every day. They
need to win so they look for the easiest way to win embodied in what most people
call cheap techniques. Of course, the problem is still there, they don't even
use the character at his 100%, they just beat people using glitches,
overprioritized moves and any other thing that may unbalance the game at the
level they play. They surely feel successful as from sore losers, they became
winners (at least before non experienced people). The new problem they have is
that they became dependant of those moves, and their gamming ability didn't
improve.
Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the
user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore
loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning and
losing, so he will become frustrated).
Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they still
consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need cheapness but
still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they will become
dependant just as the guy that has no ability.
The big difference between drugs and cheapness is that experienced players must
train cheap techniques in order to find ways around it. They may even use them
without becoming dependant, but that's not sure.
Comparison over. Now is it a big deal? Nope. In my case, I've just seen how you
guys had a different opinion from mine and wanted to see what did you base it on
and argue about it. Why to make that much trouble about it? I wanted to see if
you were able to see beyond Seth's comments.
Besides I don't think everything Seth says is so absolute, his article about
"balance" is utter crap, you know what I think about cheapness so I don't agree
with him and his final article about tourneys and matches, well, he just sounds
like a priest scolding the followers for their lack of faith in their latest
sayings.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 07:15 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Sorry pals, I've been out during weekend because of personal problems. I'll
answer Breast of Fire question, 'cause Kamui is using Seth's hidden technique:
If your argument is not strong enough against your opponent's one, just put
him on the scrub side and discredit his words (without giving a single fact
nor making sense at all).
"if cheapness is such an easy thing for an experienced player to beat, then
WHY ON EARTH DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH?!?!?!? Why is it so important for
you to prove that it exists? Even if it does exist in the form you speak of,
IT'S NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. You shouldn't even think about it. Why are you
making so much trouble over it??"
Well, you see, I'm gonna make a crystal clear comparison between cheapness and
drugs. I know it's a bit too much, but it's the best comparison I could make
to clearly show my point. Here it goes:
Firstly, I should point that cheap is big reward for a low effort (leave
outside supers).
There are many reasons why people use drugs, one of them is to avoid problems
(the one I'll center my case). So they have problems they cannot overcome or
they just don't have the balls or initiative to overcome so they try the easy
way of avoiding it that is using drugs. Of course, the problem is still there,
and they even added a new problem to their lifes, but they feel successful.
This new problem is that they became dependant of the drug they're using
'cause it's the only way to avoid problems.
Now onto the cheap stuff. Some people have the problem that they don't have
enough skill or they're just lazy to train a character and lose every day.
They need to win so they look for the easiest way to win embodied in what most
people call cheap techniques. Of course, the problem is still there, they
don't even use the character at his 100%, they just beat people using
glitches, overprioritized moves and any other thing that may unbalance the
game at the level they play. They surely feel successful as from sore losers,
they became winners (at least before non experienced people). The new problem
they have is that they became dependant of those moves, and their gamming
ability didn't improve.
Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the
user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore
loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning
and losing, so he will become frustrated).
Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they
still consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need
cheapness but still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they
will become dependant just as the guy that has no ability.
The big difference between drugs and cheapness is that experienced players
must train cheap techniques in order to find ways around it. They may even use
them without becoming dependant, but that's not sure.
Comparison over. Now is it a big deal? Nope. In my case, I've just seen how
you guys had a different opinion from mine and wanted to see what did you base
it on and argue about it. Why to make that much trouble about it? I wanted to
see if you were able to see beyond Seth's comments.
Besides I don't think everything Seth says is so absolute, his article about
"balance" is utter crap, you know what I think about cheapness so I don't
agree with him and his final article about tourneys and matches, well, he just
sounds like a priest scolding the followers for their lack of faith in their
latest sayings.
OK, how is it being helpful to make a comparison between drugs and cheapness?
It's not even really that relevant. I wasn't asking you what you thought was
cheap, because I already know your opinion on the subject. But thanks for making
an attempt at answering my question without going crazy and flaming everyone
(unlike ImMature).
And again you bring Seth up. Please stop that, Seth has nothing to do with my
questions and thoughts.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:05:2001 07:25 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Read my lips now: he IS the ringleader around here and this is a FACT
He's not my leader, and I know several others here who don't care about him
either. While your statement isn't completely unfounded, I really don't see a
whole lot of Seth worship, unless you go to Dom101. The majority of the people
here don't seem to care about him. It's just the people that do care happen to
be the loudest ones.
quote:
Yeah of course I'm not that harsh at ON.com. Wanna know why? Cause people
there can think for themselves PRETTY MUCH UNLIKE THE MAJORITY HERE. Hah I
used to think people who liked Crapcom fighters were not exactly the brightest
bulbs around...but since I started visiting SRK.com I'm *sure* of it without
the shadow of a doubt...
OK, and your definition of "majority" is five scrubs out of 20 in a topic. Most
people here have their own opinions, OK? I would know, considering that I post
here WAY more often than you do, and believe me, Seth Worshippers are the
minority here.
The only differences I see between here and ON.com is that people generally
don't flame a lot. But then again, those boards are strangely inactive most of
the time.
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 07:39 PM:
Hey, man take it easy. I was trying to make an easy comparison to show my view
on cheapness. Most people here think it's an excuse for losing when I never use
excuses. My view is that it's something that ultimately detriments your gamming.
I compared cheap techniques with something was obviously wrong. I know that
cheapness is not so relevant, I mentioned it was too much for a comparison but
it was the one that seemed easier to see.
The "I wanted to see if you were able to see beyond Seth's comments" line wasn't
directed to you in particular but to most of the people here.
The final paragraph was completely directed to TS but I forgot to mention it.
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:29 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
s-kill: at night, the sky is usally darker than it is at day time.
forum_member: yup, seems like.
ImMature: man do I hate you and your cult. damn crapcom zombies.
Ok that's your version and this is mine:
---
s-kill: "Hm today me thinks the Earth is banana-shaped. Unlike most scrubs
happen to think BTW"
Seth Followers: "YEAH! YEAH! You're a genius Seth! Tell us more Seth!"
Random poster: "Uh I guess you're wrong cause..."
s-kill: "Hey how do you DARE? You're not even from USA. Speak Engrish, fool
[etc]"
Seth followers: "YEAH! Scrub. If you disagree with Seth you're a scrub. So
shaddup scrub"
ImMature: "This is a cult of Crapcom zombies INDEED"
Seth followers: "This is not a cult! We think for ourselves! YEAH! YEAH! We're
not mindless automatons! NO! NO! It's only that *coincidentally* we happen to
agree with Seth..."
ImMature: "%100 of the times?!?"
---
Source: Domination101
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 08:41 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok that's your version and this is mine:
---
s-kill: "Hm today me thinks the Earth is banana-shaped. Unlike most scrubs
happen to think BTW"
Seth Followers: "YEAH! YEAH! You're a genius Seth! Tell us more Seth!"
Random poster: "Uh I guess you're wrong cause..."
s-kill: "Hey how do you DARE? You're not even from USA. Speak Engrish, fool
[etc]"
Seth followers: "YEAH! Scrub. If you disagree with Seth you're a scrub. So
shaddup scrub"
ImMature: "This is a cult of Crapcom zombies INDEED"
Seth followers: "This is not a cult! We think for ourselves! YEAH! YEAH! We're
not mindless automatons! NO! NO! It's only that *coincidentally* we happen to
agree with Seth..."
ImMature: "%100 of the times?!?"
---
Source: Domination101
Lol, that was funny!!! And unfortunately true.
Instead of argueing with people, Seth & friends full color, say that people who
think otherwise are wrong and thus are scrubs. They seem to think that
discrediting the ones that think differently they make a point, which is not
true.
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:43 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
You even mentioned how you hated Nazi's and such above yet your not tackling
Endless, i dont know why.
Endless is no Nazi, biggot or whatsoever. I've talked to him more than you have
so trust me on this one. He's a tolerant person, so stop assuming stuff. You're
the one being intolerant here IMHO
Posted by SithKilla on 02:05:2001 08:52 PM:
They need to make a "cheapness" chat room for this because all i see is flames.
At least nobody is talking about peoples moms anymore or how they are closer to
god hehe that was a good one.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:54 PM:
To Ryoga:
"I've been out during weekend because of personal problems."
Sorry to hear that man
To Beast of Fire:
"He's not my leader, and I know several others here who don't care about him
either."
And OF COURSE if he was you'd openly admit it eh?
"I really don't see a whole lot of Seth worship, unless you go to Dom101."
Logical. That's where Seth posts
"The majority of the people here don't seem to care about him. It's just the
people that do care happen to be the loudest ones."
(don't...say...it...just...don't...say...it...ImMature...try...to...be...kind...this...time...)
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 08:57 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Lol, that was funny!!! And unfortunately true.
Instead of argueing with people, Seth & friends full color, say that people
who think otherwise are wrong and thus are scrubs. They seem to think that
discrediting the ones that think differently they make a point, which is not
true.
Maybe it's cause they have no alternate point
Posted by ImMature on 02:05:2001 09:14 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
They need to make a "cheapness" chat room for this because all i see is
flames.
At least nobody is talking about peoples moms anymore or how they are closer
to god hehe that was a good one.
Yeah, yeah, we're the bad guys here. Everybody knows that, we're evil & mean
while the rest of the SRK.com posters have been verrry tolerant & kind to us
indeed. Go figure...
BTW SithKilla, what is your alias based on? Just curious
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Erm would you take some advice from one of the SNK villains here? You need to
put that gif image of yours on the net before linking to it. If you leave it on
your harddisk then nobody else will be able to see it, y'know?
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:05:2001 09:28 PM:
Hey ImMature, everything is OK now.
Heh, of course they don't, see Kamui, when he run out of ideas he came out with
that "I know your mindset" crap followed by "and I know you're scrubs".
BTW, we're bound to be the bad guys here, as Seth and Cletus gave a couple of
shots towards me (to say the least) so I'm an enemy of the cult.
Hmmm, have you read that post of Rugal at KoF4Ever? Hmmm, I also hve a guess
about who chi might be, but only the chi that visited MMCaffe and Orochinagi, I
don't know about the original one (if there is one, of course).
SithKilla: Heh, was it on this thread where I said that of being closer to god?
Heh, it was really funny to see the reactions I got about an obvious joke.
Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 12:38 AM:
You know your putting me down for apparently having no ideas when you yourself
havent come up with anything new in the argument department ether. instead the
only thing youve manage to do was insist on telling us the we are part of some
Seth-cult(which btw i dont belong too, but since you know so much about it im
wondering if you do :P).
And as far as my mindset argument, again, your ingoring what i orginally said
and only bringing the gritty details to make me look bad. However to make it
clear for you, and so you dont twist my words against me this time, let me
explain further...
Its common sense that a persons experiences define his attitude, we all know
that. Now its common knowledge that when a person is encountered with a problem
some will aproach it differently than others. If someones thoughts on one
subject are the same as another persons its safe to assume that the
corresponding person experienced the same problem and approached it in the same
way, thus resulting in both having the same attitude and or feelings for
whatever subject. Now when applied to my story about the scrub complaining about
so and so bieng cheap at the recent tourney i was at, if your argument is
exactly like his, with the same defense, same terminology, same prefrences, dont
you think its safe to say that you had the same experience to "cheapness" as he
did and reacted to it in the same way? This would explain your attitude and
feelings toward the subject and it would show that maybe your bieng as
irrational as he is. Now that right there is a good argument and what ive been
saying all along, no mind reading here, just observation. Now try not to bring
up Seth, and or mind reading in your reply...
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Hey ImMature, everything is OK now.
Heh, of course they don't, see Kamui, when he run out of ideas he came out
with that "I know your mindset" crap followed by "and I know you're scrubs".
BTW, we're bound to be the bad guys here, as Seth and Cletus gave a couple of
shots towards me (to say the least) so I'm an enemy of the cult.
Hmmm, have you read that post of Rugal at KoF4Ever? Hmmm, I also hve a guess
about who chi might be, but only the chi that visited MMCaffe and Orochinagi,
I don't know about the original one (if there is one, of course).
SithKilla: Heh, was it on this thread where I said that of being closer to
god? Heh, it was really funny to see the reactions I got about an obvious
joke.
Posted by Beast of Fire on 02:06:2001 04:24 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
And OF COURSE if he was you'd openly admit it eh?
As a matter of fact, I would. People who mindlessly follow Seth have no shame
about it, b/c Seth is God to them. I'm trying to show that I'm NOT a mindless
automaton. I think for myself, and my ideas are my own.
quote:
(don't...say...it...just...don't...say...it...ImMature...try...to...be...kind...this...time...)
Yeah, yeah, I know that I'm loud too. That's something I really can't help that
much. I was raised in a loud house, so I'm used to being loud so I can be sure
that I was heard. My dad's the same way (of course, he's also half-deaf, so that
has something to do with it).
And there are people on this board that can be much louder than me. I only get
loud when I get pissed (and being called a brainwashed Seth Follower REALLY
pisses me off).
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/BOFtag.gif
"Ore no hontou no chikara o misete yaru ze!"
Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 02:06:2001 07:19 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
[B]
Drugs ultimately kill the consumer, while cheap techniques ultimately kill the
user's ability as when the way around them becomes popular he becomes a sore
loser again (and someone who does so, is obviously too worried about winning
and losing, so he will become frustrated).
Now, there's people who don't need drugs to overcome any problem but they
still consume them. So there's people with enough ability as to not need
cheapness but still uses it, the bad thing is that if they abuse of it, they
will become dependant just as the guy that has no ability.
Wow, i'm impressed, this thread (flame war ) is still going on. I thought you
people would have gotten tired of arguing already
First, i'd just like to say that this has been one of the most entertaining
threads I have seen in a long time. You guys crack me up
Let's see, so you are co-dependant if you play (what alot of people say is)
*ahem* cheap. So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm
dependant on that? Nope If I do a combo which gives me a BIG reward, and cost's
little effort, am I dependant on that? Nope.
To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or
that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play. I'm not a god at fighting games,
but I am good. I'm no scrub. But if somebody gets to close to me, and I don't
have an opening for a combo/super, I throw them. If I have a damaging three hit
combo, I use it. If I know the person can't get out of the corner with the
character i'm using, I keep them there.
http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif
Stung by flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's
worst nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door tour
of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average
Americans.
Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 07:29 PM:
Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything. When something stops
working a human will stop doing it. You do what works in the current situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Drunkengameplayer:
Wow, i'm impressed, this thread (flame war ) is still going on. I thought you
people would have gotten tired of arguing already
First, i'd just like to say that this has been one of the most entertaining
threads I have seen in a long time. You guys crack me up
Let's see, so you are co-dependant if you play (what alot of people say is)
*ahem* cheap. So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm
dependant on that? Nope If I do a combo which gives me a BIG reward, and
cost's little effort, am I dependant on that? Nope.
To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or
that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play. I'm not a god at fighting
games, but I am good. I'm no scrub. But if somebody gets to close to me, and I
don't have an opening for a combo/super, I throw them. If I have a damaging
three hit combo, I use it. If I know the person can't get out of the corner
with the character i'm using, I keep them there.
<IMG
SRC="http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif">
Stung by flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's
worst nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door
tour of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average
Americans.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:06:2001 09:42 PM:
Kamui, I'm not putting you down, you don't need my help for that.
You have no point in this "cheapness" argument, not even something to start
with, but I'll show you where you're wrong.
Point 1: Your mindset crap is based on blah, blah. See, you came up with a story
of two guys that said someone was cheap. Even in the case that all you have said
is true, there are several points you have to take into consideration when
trying to guess another one gamming level. One is the games he plays, a KoF
player will not approach CvsS in the same way that a SF one will. The other one
is the environment, it's different for different cultures as is completely
stupid to think that the values for an American are the same as the ones for a
European, Latin American or Asian. So, while one may do some things for honor,
other may do the same thing for self improvement, and even another guy may do it
for hate (I'm talking about being against "cheapness"). So you're trying to
compare people from different backgrounds and from different schools (someone
who plays KoF have a different way of playing than someone who plays SF). You
certainly don't know for sure how we play and comparing with a couple of local
guys is just out of place. You don't know why those guys started thinking that
way and you don't know how we did either. So sorry, you made no point here. If
you think otherwise then I must say you need to get out more (I'm talking about
going far outside the US).
Point 2: You see, Kamui, during a discussion, there is a point that's being
discussed and a group of people that discuss. Pretty simple, isn't it? Now, to
win a discussion, you must state your view on the subject and post proof to
suport your point and disprove the point made by the others. You don't try to
discredit others by calling them names. Do you see that? You'll never make a
point calling us scrubs. If you think otherwise then I'm sorry for you.
Point 3: You are a Seth follower, no doubt about that. You act like one. You
were the guy that pointed me to a thread made by Seth and you talked like there
was a big revelation on it. Besides you're using Seth's technique of "anyone who
thinks otherwise is a scrub" which is pathetic, but to each their own, right?
Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you
didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a couple
of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long ago as I
haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when you were
the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck about your
crying).
Point 5: I've made a very simple explanation about my points as a reply to Beast
of Fire, you should read it so you learn what a discussion is about.
Drunkengameplayer:
"So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that?
Nope"
Do you know what is to become dependant of anything? It's when you do it all the
time.
"To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill. Or
that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play."
See, ever wondered why the japs kicked your asses so bad? It's the way you play.
The kid again:
"Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything."
Yeap, it is. And that happens because you can't improve your gamming
effortlessly.
"When something stops working a human will stop doing it."
Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that what
you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk.
"You do what works in the current situation."
And never try anything new. Heh, you really have a great gamming, don't you?
Your mindset is sooo advanced.
Posted by Kamui on 02:06:2001 10:06 PM:
As far as my story about the 2 "scrubs" are conscerned, thats no bullshit story,
there are people who can back me up on this. Goto the "CvS Hiuston Tourney"
thread on the front page(scroll down, look to the right" if you want more info
about the tourney i am talking about. Im sure people there saw the 2 fools i am
talking about complaining about Mark R's throwing bananza. Please, research it
if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool.
"anyone who thinks otherwise is a scrub"
Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a scrub
though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did i say
that line and you know it.
"Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you
didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a couple
of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long ago as I
haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when you were
the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck about your
crying)."
WHAAAT?!?!?! LOL...I remember that conversation, and your soooo wrong. I never
said i know Valle, i said i asked him a question, i asked him if he played KOF
and he said "yes, barely", thats as far as that conversation went. I then
thought that maybe he was getting into the game(i mentioned so as well, if this
helps you remember the conversation) becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into
the game maybe happy fanboys would follow behind and thus improve the situation
for that game over here in the states, so i mentioned it on ON.com, which is
what the conversation was about. WTF, I never said i played him ether, I live in
Texas for crying out loud, now YOUR the on thats comming up with bullshit lies
about me. I did mention that SOMEONE else on Fighters.net said they had a friend
that payed him and beat him, which i thought that guy was lying anyways but in
anycase(BTW, this is the same guy that told me John Choi was #1 KOF player over
here, yeah right). Your getting things mixed up pal. Dont tell me what i said.
"Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that
what you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk."
WHAAAT?!?! In what way is a play style naturally addictive? This is 2 completely
different ideas. A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically, not like a
play style where if it stops working your natural reaction is to addapt and move
on. A play style also deosnt have a psychological+chemical grip on your mind.
People cant stop using an addictive drug, but when it comes to play styles when
something stops working they adapt and move on. Why your comparing drugs with
gameplay is beyond me as there 2 COMPLETELY different things.
"Heh, you really have a great gamming, dont you? Your mindset is sooo advanced"
What are you saying? Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you. From
what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset. This comming
from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs...
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Kamui, I'm not putting you down, you don't need my help for that.
You have no point in this "cheapness" argument, not even something to start
with, but I'll show you where you're wrong.
Point 1: Your mindset crap is based on blah, blah. See, you came up with a
story of two guys that said someone was cheap. Even in the case that all you
have said is true, there are several points you have to take into
consideration when trying to guess another one gamming level. One is the games
he plays, a KoF player will not approach CvsS in the same way that a SF one
will. The other one is the environment, it's different for different cultures
as is completely stupid to think that the values for an American are the same
as the ones for a European, Latin American or Asian. So, while one may do some
things for honor, other may do the same thing for self improvement, and even
another guy may do it for hate (I'm talking about being against "cheapness").
So you're trying to compare people from different backgrounds and from
different schools (someone who plays KoF have a different way of playing than
someone who plays SF). You certainly don't know for sure how we play and
comparing with a couple of local guys is just out of place. You don't know why
those guys started thinking that way and you don't know how we did either. So
sorry, you made no point here. If you think otherwise then I must say you need
to get out more (I'm talking about going far outside the US).
Point 2: You see, Kamui, during a discussion, there is a point that's being
discussed and a group of people that discuss. Pretty simple, isn't it? Now, to
win a discussion, you must state your view on the subject and post proof to
suport your point and disprove the point made by the others. You don't try to
discredit others by calling them names. Do you see that? You'll never make a
point calling us scrubs. If you think otherwise then I'm sorry for you.
Point 3: You are a Seth follower, no doubt about that. You act like one. You
were the guy that pointed me to a thread made by Seth and you talked like
there was a big revelation on it. Besides you're using Seth's technique of
"anyone who thinks otherwise is a scrub" which is pathetic, but to each their
own, right?
Point 4: Being a liar doesn't help either. You said in this thread that you
didn't know Valle but in ON you once posted you knew him, defeated him a
couple of times and that he was learning to play KoF'98 (and this was a long
ago as I haven't post there or months). Besides you say I'm insulting you when
you were the one who did and you're also flamming me at ON (I give a fuck
about your crying).
Point 5: I've made a very simple explanation about my points as a reply to
Beast of Fire, you should read it so you learn what a discussion is about.
Drunkengameplayer:
"So, if I do a deep jumping fierce, jab, walk up throw, i'm dependant on that?
Nope"
Do you know what is to become dependant of anything? It's when you do it all
the time.
"To tell me that if I play what you people call cheap, that I have no skill.
Or that i'm lazy. Nope, it's just the way I play."
See, ever wondered why the japs kicked your asses so bad? It's the way you
play.
The kid again:
"Exactly, its not about becoming dependant on anything."
Yeap, it is. And that happens because you can't improve your gamming
effortlessly.
"When something stops working a human will stop doing it."
Really? So when a drug stops working the junkie leaves drugs right? Is that
what you're saying? I guess you lack some basic knowledge to talk.
"You do what works in the current situation."
And never try anything new. Heh, you really have a great gamming, don't you?
Your mindset is sooo advanced.
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-06-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:06:2001 11:38 PM:
Ah, you're helpless. See, I can scroll up or load the prior page so you don't
need to quote my entire post, it makes loading crappier.
"Please, research it if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool."
You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way
so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote.
"Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a scrub
though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did i say
that line and you know it."
I don't need to call you an idiot and yet I can make it clear through a post.
You idirectly called me a scrub (now you're doing directly) and you made a
pointless story to mark me as one. Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub, then
what's the point of your story?
"WHAAAT?!?!?!..."
Sorry, but I recall it very well.
"becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into the game maybe happy fanboys would
follow behind and thus improve the situation for that game over here in the
states, so i mentioned it on ON.com"
Why would anyone at ON care about it? They were already in the game.
And about the insulting thing? No comments. But I'd like to be pointed to the
"Three Morons" thread, just to have a couple of laughs.
"...A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically..."
Of course it is. But when it comes to playing US players in this forum tend to
stop training and just get satisfied by a small knowledge 'cause it's working
(and btw, it's working on people with the same mentality and ability). It's all
about lazyness, and that's why you prefer not to go to the next level of
playing.
Besides, people don't adapt and move on. Proof of that is the Valle vs Chen
match. I've been wondering why the hell did Chen choose Ex Yuri two more times
when she was useless in the first match. Then I remembered the fireball trap
everyone is talking about. Chen used Yuri in an attempt to get Valle into that
trap and waste one of his characters with it. He didn't adapt to the situation
(which was that Valle had a good strategy against him) and kept doing the same
until he lost all the times. Chen got too used to that trap, and when it didn't
work, he still tried it again.
"Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you."
Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique?
"From what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset."
Yup, but the real point was on the part you skipped.
"This comming from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs..."
You see, when you have to explain something to people that don't have enough IQ
as to understand it, you have to be didactic. If I were near your house, I would
have explained it with pupets.
Posted by SithKilla on 02:06:2001 11:42 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Erm would you take some advice from one of the SNK villains here? You need to
put that gif image of yours on the net before linking to it. If you leave it
on your harddisk then nobody else will be able to see it, y'know?
I am not taking sides. Both fans have been equaly ignorant. I never said you
were being evil & mean unless your saying you have been.
Thanks for the advice. I will fix the problem.
To be a "Sith" means you are part of a group that belives in the power of the
dark side. They are also called Dark Jedi. An example of a Sith Lord would be
Darth Vader. They are Jedi masters of the force and thier power comes from anger
and hatred. Therefore I am the "killer" of all who support evilness and
stupidity where i find it.
Yes i am a Starwars Junkie.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 02-06-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:07:2001 12:07 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by SithKilla:
Yes i am a Starwars Junkie.
Heh, you're not the only one. I though you were using that nick as a mock to "no
s-kill".
Posted by Kamui on 02:07:2001 05:00 AM:
"You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way
so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote."
Ok then why did they say what they did? Why were they talking mess when they
werent any good themselves?
"Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub, then what's the point of your story?"
The story was intended to show where the common origin of "cheap haters" ideas
come from. Now you say that this could very well be wrong when it comes to you
yourself, and that quite possibly could be true, but, ive been going to
KOFonline lately and Ive been going to KOF4ever for a long while now and from
what im deffinatly seeing(especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those
boards? They make me look smart.)the people there are DEFFINATLY under the same
influence as the fools at the tourney i played. To the extent that about 5 or 6
of them mentioned thinking Benimaru's standing B was cheap! Thats just absurd,
and when it comes to them and there comments i can deffinatly tell that %90 of
them are just players that are eliminating anything they cant beat by calling it
cheap. Apparently these guys are based in Singapore, well known for its KOF
players, yet from the tourney videos i saw at that site and the way the players
acted on the forums, i can tell that they have been running under the famous
mentality you refer to for yourself. BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was
curious to know what you thought of them.
Speaking of which, I much prefer the tourney videos at White-Tower, do you
agree? I thought the winner of that tourney was really good, and used real
strategies when playing, instead of the mass jumping fest that i saw on the
Singapore vids. The singapore vids were good, and im sure those guys could
certainly own my ass, but observe the way they played when compared to the
Kuwaties. Now ive already seen what there mentality is be seeing the what there
ideals and attitudes are on the forums at KOFonline, there ideal btw seems to be
the same as yours. Now as you can see from there videos, they have a massive
amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there combo game is fantastic,
but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy at all when playing, other
than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing every player do with every
character. They sure look cool, there jumping a lot landing combos flawlessly
and such, but there is no brain behind that type of play, or very little
strategy to be seen. On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won
the tourney obviously had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun
and his turtle K'. To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them
complaining about what they think is cheap on ON.com, infact i havent seen it
yet(The guy who won that tourney goes by the nick "Kofmaster" if you care at
all). From this simple observation you can tell what this mentality of yours is
doing to players. This deosnt make a player a crappy one, but it limits him by
SO MUCH, that the result is these massive mindless jump fests ive been seeing.
NONE of the players played any differently, they all played the exact same way.
Look at how your limiting yourself as a player. You cant turtle, thats cheap, so
if your defensive for too long you have to start attacking sooner or later, even
if its not in your best interest. You cant do any %100 striker combos, even
though it would give you the game. Hell, by Singapores standards your not even
aloud to use Joe striker, even though he cant touch you with Seth behind
you(Btw, i can land a %100 with any character and %80 of the strikers on the
board, its just easier with Joe). Oh and Jhun is cheap too apparently, he was
banned at one the tournies listed on Kofonline's forums(along with a large list
of strikers, including Seth). What else has to be taken away from a players
reach? This list is getting bigger day by day of what you can and cant do...
"Sorry, but I recall it very well."
Apparently, especially since i typed it and i know what i said. If i did say
that then why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going?
Why bring it to my attention now? I never said that, and im gonna assume your
ether lying to try to make me look bad or you mesenterpreted what i said with
the to other to fools i was talking about from Fighters.net. Im going to assume
you mesenterpreted what i said. I never said that :/
"Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique?"
Technique? I really wasnt sure what you were saying, ive never heard of a word
calling "gamming"(i assumed gaming), and your missing a few words to tag the
sentence together. Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was
confused.
Finally, about the "Three morons" comment, i waqs mad, i apologise, it wasnt
even about this thread at the time. But i did find it, "strange" that your
spending this much time on this board just to flame for no reason...
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
Ah, you're helpless. See, I can scroll up or load the prior page so you don't
need to quote my entire post, it makes loading crappier.
"Please, research it if you will, so youll know im not another lying fool."
You didn't get it, did you? Reality is you don't know why they though that way
so if it was true or not, it's a sidenote.
"Oh please, you know what i said, and i never said that. I do think your a
scrub though when it comes to what your allowing yourself to do, but never did
i say that line and you know it."
I don't need to call you an idiot and yet I can make it clear through a post.
You idirectly called me a scrub (now you're doing directly) and you made a
pointless story to mark me as one. Now, if I'm not wrong for being a scrub,
then what's the point of your story?
"WHAAAT?!?!?!..."
Sorry, but I recall it very well.
"becuase i thought maybe if Valle got into the game maybe happy fanboys would
follow behind and thus improve the situation for that game over here in the
states, so i mentioned it on ON.com"
Why would anyone at ON care about it? They were already in the game.
And about the insulting thing? No comments. But I'd like to be pointed to the
"Three Morons" thread, just to have a couple of laughs.
"...A drug addict is dependant on the drug chemically..."
Of course it is. But when it comes to playing US players in this forum tend to
stop training and just get satisfied by a small knowledge 'cause it's working
(and btw, it's working on people with the same mentality and ability). It's
all about lazyness, and that's why you prefer not to go to the next level of
playing.
Besides, people don't adapt and move on. Proof of that is the Valle vs Chen
match. I've been wondering why the hell did Chen choose Ex Yuri two more times
when she was useless in the first match. Then I remembered the fireball trap
everyone is talking about. Chen used Yuri in an attempt to get Valle into that
trap and waste one of his characters with it. He didn't adapt to the situation
(which was that Valle had a good strategy against him) and kept doing the same
until he lost all the times. Chen got too used to that trap, and when it
didn't work, he still tried it again.
"Sorry the english is a bit broken, no offense to you."
Hmmm, I'm having a flashback. Where did you learn that technique?
"From what i can tell its some sort of sarcastic remark about my mindset."
Yup, but the real point was on the part you skipped.
"This comming from someone thats comparing a play style to drugs..."
You see, when you have to explain something to people that don't have enough
IQ as to understand it, you have to be didactic. If I were near your house, I
would have explained it with pupets.
[This message has been edited by Kamui (edited 02-06-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:07:2001 04:46 PM:
First of all, when you reply, delete the quote (unless you're specifically
quoting a bit of the message).
"Why were they talking mess when they werent any good themselves?"
Dunno, I don't know them. See, when I play my friend we use that everything is
valid (except infinites). I sometimes do certain cheap things and get called
"cheapo" because of that, but we do it for the fun. So, even though we use that
while playing, we know when one of us is being cheap.
"especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those boards?"
Not really, I went there when that crap of the supposed KoF2000 roms happened,
but I didn't read too much there (I have enough boards to fill my time know).
"i can deffinatly tell that %90 of them are just players that are eliminating
anything they cant beat by calling it cheap."
Whoa, one thing is a cheap move and another thing is a forbidden one. I think
Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap but I don't mind it being used against me
(and I do you use it, what I don't do is abuse of it) but that move is not
illegal. On the other hand, easy to do infinites are something you can call
illegal.
"BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was curious to know what you thought of
them"
Not yet.
"they have a massive amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there combo
game is fantastic, but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy at all
when playing, other than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing every player
do with every character."
It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way
you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long
range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said
before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I don't
think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to death);
besides armor mode was crap back then.
"On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won the tourney obviously
had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun and his turtle K'"
Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that
the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get owned
by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style.
"To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them complaining about
what they think is cheap on ON.com"
That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is
cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the
reason of this thread by now. Well, as people at SRK had a completely different
view on it based on who knows what (I won't say it, I won't say it, I must
resist temptation), I though it would be good to show them they were wrong and
got that chance when someone made this thread.
"You cant turtle"
I don't think anyone would complain about you turtling, in fact they will rush
you down for sure. Again, cheap is not equal to illegal. The thing is most
people believe turtling is a begginer's technique.
"You cant do any %100 striker combos, even though it would give you the game."
Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of bugs
pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those 100% easy
combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so the game dies
in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun?
"why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going?"
Nobody cares about Valle at a KoF forums (and maybe nobody cares about him at
other Capcom forums).
"Why bring it to my attention now?"
Because you mentioned the opposite here.
"Im going to assume you mesenterpreted what i said."
Maybe I did, dunno where that thread was and dunno if it survived the ups and
downs ON server had.
"Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was confused."
But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you? Errmmm,
don't make me start with the grammar thing. Most US people at SRK talk about how
sucky other's grammar is when they make the same or worst mistakes in the way
(it's funny).
"But i did find it, "strange" that your spending this much time on this board
just to flame for no reason..."
Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here.
Posted by Kamui on 02:08:2001 05:32 AM:
"It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way
you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long
range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said
before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I don't
think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to death);
besides armor mode was crap back then."
Yeah i noticed, every video ive seen has most of the player playing like this.
My point is there isnt any strategy behind it, its just as boring playing
against these masterfull jumpers as it is a turtle. The last time i saw a Chang
player(it was a KOF 99 tourney now that i think about it), his whole game was
jumping C's and his command throw. Still alot of jumping to be found, though i
dont think you can jump very fast with Chang, an obvious reason why they wouldnt
too much...I still bothers me. I know why there playing the way they do, becuase
they are somewhat influenced by the "cheap" factor. I think that every player
that strays away from that play style is moving in the right direction. There is
hope for KOF players. After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that
not everybody whos good is playing the same way.
"Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that
the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get owned
by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style."
Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is
playing it depends on whos the better. Same problem with MvC2 exists, runaway
overbearingly beats every other play style down. Not to say rushdown isnt
possible, but its much harder to do. After seeing the tourney vids at white
tower theres a good possiblity that KOF is a fairly balanced game when it comes
to that situation, I would like to see if the "jumping rushdown" technique would
be able to beat a good turtle...Now that would be an interesting game, not both
players jumping madly across the screen.
"That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is
cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the
reason of this thread by now."
Wrong. Sorry, no offense to those boards but someone brings up a thread
complaining about cheap ATLEAST once a month, and it gets major replies. At
KOFonline its like everyday :P
"Well, as people at SRK had a completely different view on it based on who knows
what (I won't say it, I won't say it, I must resist temptation),"
You wouldnt be refering to Seth would you? SAY IT YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!!
MWAHAHAHA....errr....ahem....
"Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of bugs
pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those 100% easy
combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so the game dies
in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun?"
Well i deffinatly dont think it was the smartest decision on SNK's part to
include the active striker system, but that shouldnt stop people from using it.
Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something
abusable. But even then though there are problems with it, i dont think it
"breaks" the game. There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of
Joe users, you pick Seth. Again, the game still has problems, but its still
hilarious fun, especially when your not holding back.
"But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you?"
Eeeehh....nnnooo...Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument?
What i said to you wasnt ment to be a cut down, the line you said was a broken
and i was confused at what you exactly ment at first. Really, no harm intended.
Ive cooled down now.
"Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here"
Eehhh...you talking about the SNK lemmings argument? Thats a different subject.
I know he didnt start this thread...
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
First of all, when you reply, delete the quote (unless you're specifically
quoting a bit of the message).
"Why were they talking mess when they werent any good themselves?"
Dunno, I don't know them. See, when I play my friend we use that everything is
valid (except infinites). I sometimes do certain cheap things and get called
"cheapo" because of that, but we do it for the fun. So, even though we use
that while playing, we know when one of us is being cheap.
"especially at Kofonline, man have you been to those boards?"
Not really, I went there when that crap of the supposed KoF2000 roms happened,
but I didn't read too much there (I have enough boards to fill my time know).
"i can deffinatly tell that %90 of them are just players that are eliminating
anything they cant beat by calling it cheap."
Whoa, one thing is a cheap move and another thing is a forbidden one. I think
Mai's fan dance in KoF'98 is cheap but I don't mind it being used against me
(and I do you use it, what I don't do is abuse of it) but that move is not
illegal. On the other hand, easy to do infinites are something you can call
illegal.
"BTW, have you seen the videos yet? I was curious to know what you thought of
them"
Not yet.
"they have a massive amount of reactional skill, incredible timing, there
combo game is fantastic, but as you can see, there using abolutely no strategy
at all when playing, other than a jumping zoning technique that im seeing
every player do with every character."
It's a style that's verry famous in Asia. You just can't play KoF the same way
you play SF, SF gives more advantage to the keepaway while KoF makes the long
range combat less effective. Besides, not everyone plays that way. As I said
before, one of the finalists of the KoF'99 tourney at HK used Chang and I
don't think he tried to rushdown anyone (unless you want to make them laugh to
death); besides armor mode was crap back then.
"On the other hand the kuwatie(spelling?) player that won the tourney
obviously had an incredibly strategy behind him, especially his Jhun and his
turtle K'"
Errmmm, I think it's Kuwaitie or something like that. But you should know that
the rushdown pattern is the way to beat the turtle one. So, they would get
owned by Singapoureans. BTW, rushdown is not my style.
"To make things even more interesting, i rarely EVER see them complaining
about what they think is cheap on ON.com"
That rarely happens in any KoF board. That's because KoF players know what is
cheap and it's nothing to make a big fuzz about. I bet you'd be wondering the
reason of this thread by now. Well, as people at SRK had a completely
different view on it based on who knows what (I won't say it, I won't say it,
I must resist temptation), I though it would be good to show them they were
wrong and got that chance when someone made this thread.
"You cant turtle"
I don't think anyone would complain about you turtling, in fact they will rush
you down for sure. Again, cheap is not equal to illegal. The thing is most
people believe turtling is a begginer's technique.
"You cant do any %100 striker combos, even though it would give you the game."
Because that's what killed the game in no time. I think that the amount of
bugs pissed off most players. So you have a broken game that without those
100% easy combos would be great. What would you do? Make an anything goes so
the game dies in a month? Or stablish a set of rules to make it fun?
"why didnt anybody call me on it when the thread was actually going?"
Nobody cares about Valle at a KoF forums (and maybe nobody cares about him at
other Capcom forums).
"Why bring it to my attention now?"
Because you mentioned the opposite here.
"Im going to assume you mesenterpreted what i said."
Maybe I did, dunno where that thread was and dunno if it survived the ups and
downs ON server had.
"Sorry, no offense to you or your grammar, i really was confused."
But you know what I meant about the "technique" sentence didn't you? Errmmm,
don't make me start with the grammar thing. Most US people at SRK talk about
how sucky other's grammar is when they make the same or worst mistakes in the
way (it's funny).
"But i did find it, "strange" that your spending this much time on this board
just to flame for no reason..."
Errmmm, cletus started a flame and I was bored at that time so I came here.
Posted by ImMature on 02:08:2001 09:34 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Yeah i noticed, every video ive seen has most of the player playing like this.
My point is there isnt any strategy behind it, its just as boring playing
against these masterfull jumpers as it is a turtle.
Uhh maybe you're just assuming too much from watching a bunch of videos. Go read
Seth's last article on it, will ya? At least is not a total piece of pompous
crap as many others this time...
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
There is hope for KOF players.
Ok if the utmost authority when it comes to KOF says so...
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that not everybody whos
good is playing the same way.
You REALLY needs to read Seth's last article
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is
playing it depends on whos the better.
Aparently from what I've heard KOF 2K is a sad exception. And I guess you know
it already
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Wrong. Sorry, no offense to those boards but someone brings up a thread
complaining about cheap ATLEAST once a month, and it gets major replies. At
KOFonline its like everyday :P
Well not that I visit Vincent's so much but I can tell ya it's not very common
at all at Yasakani's, Gunsmith's or MadMan's, now it is?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something
abusable. But even then though there are problems with it, i dont think it
"breaks" the game.
So you're saying yourself that Cheapness does exist?!?
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of Joe users, you pick
Seth.
That's MvC2 mentality!
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Eeeehh....nnnooo...Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument?
Nope he was talking about Seth's style of arguing I guess
quote:
Originally posted by Kamui:
Eehhh...you talking about the SNK lemmings argument? Thats a different
subject. I know he didnt start this thread...
Neither did we start this one. So?
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:08:2001 09:33 PM:
"I know why there playing the way they do, becuase they are somewhat influenced
by the "cheap" factor"
Nah, I don't play that way, and I try not to be cheap. It's just that they have
better reflexes than I do (yeap, and I'm no artist nor musician ) so they play
in a way that exploits their abilities. It's not that they don't have a strategy
at all, but that strategy works well and uses the full extent of the character.
I also have a couple of strategies, I start with one of them and depending on my
opponent I switch to another one. If you see it, you may say I don't have an
strategy when the only thing I did was to change to another one when I though my
first approach wasn't going to work.
"After seeing the turtle K' im very much happy to see that not everybody whos
good is playing the same way"
Of course not, but if a good player is turtling, the other good player will rush
his ass down.
"Well if KOF is a balanced game then it deosnt matter what style each player is
playing it depends on whos the better."
Yeap, it matters, in a game where throwing a fireball is no guarantee of keeping
the opponent far, keepaway will always be on disadvantage to runaway.
"Same problem with MvC2 exists"
The problem there is that there are lots of beams and three screens high super
jumps that let people control the situation from a far away.
"Wrong..."
ImMature answered that.
"Well i deffinatly dont think it was the smartest decision on SNK's part to
include the active striker system, but that shouldnt stop people from using it."
Maybe, but it's far from being complete. The should make the striker whiff after
having helped a couple of times in a large combo or something like that to avoid
infinites.
"Theres a ton of games out there that are fun becuase they have something
abusable."
I don't think so. Can't think of a game with those properties.
"There are ways to defend against the massive onslaughts of Joe users, you pick
Seth."
That "pick X to beat Y" is boring, I like to choose the team I like most or even
choose random and know I have a chance (I mostly use random selection for
forcing myself to use a character I wouldn't normaly choose).
"Oh are you talking about Raikoken's line from ON argument"
Errmmm, nope, can't remember that one. It's not important. In fact ImMature is
right about it.
"Ive cooled down now."
I noticed, that's why I'm not flamming you now.
"I know he didnt start this thread..."
Neither did I. BTW, I didn't flame people here until they became annoying. By
"annoying" I mean that they jumped in and threw a known phrase without even read
what was posted.
Posted by cocoumi on 02:08:2001 11:53 PM:
Cheap Factor... Some one is angry because they get their ass kicked by someone
who has been practicing a tactic that may be difficult for you to get around...
My stratagy: Learn those same tactics and start to use them for your advantage.
For example, I love to play MVC2...I was playing with Chun-Li, Guile and
Sentinile for a long while. For that long while I was kicking ass too; I was
beating the majority of those top players for a while (and making them feel like
shit because I'm a lady ^0^). Suddenly I noticed they were changing up
characters and learning how to use them effectivly and learning my tactics. So
what have I done? I've been experimenting, watching those same guys that have
turned around and started kicking my ass again, and I'm sitting back and
watching what they are doing. At the same time I am learning new characters to
play with and I am growing even more.
My argument about cheapness... there is no such thing. They are tricks and traps
and at the same time you have to learn those tricks, learn how to avoid the
traps and come up with some traps of your own. Weenies whine about cheapness.
-The cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet.
[This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-08-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:09:2001 02:51 AM:
We have a new idiot to make fun of.
Geese, the handicrapcom disease really exists.
Posted by ImMature on 02:09:2001 10:27 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
My argument about cheapness... there is no such thing. They are tricks and
traps and at the same time you have to learn those tricks, learn how to avoid
the traps and come up with some traps of your own. Weenies whine about
cheapness.
Fine. Now go read the thread. Cause all that stuff has been already debated in
pages 5-8 or so, y'know?
Scrubs think that being cheap is the big shit
Posted by SithKilla on 02:09:2001 10:29 AM:
Comon people what are you talking about? The game is perfectly balanced. Its
cheap because cable has a gun. Just use ryu and ken and akuma. They can beat
anything with a fireball and dragon punch. Thier top tier really. (ducks the
chair)
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:09:2001 04:04 PM:
"Its cheap because cable has a gun."
That's why my fav Capcom character is Bulleta (BBHood), she has a rocket
launcher.
Posted by Pokai-Chong on 02:09:2001 08:36 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"Its cheap because cable has a gun."
That's why my fav Capcom character is Bulleta (BBHood), she has a rocket
launcher.
HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!HAAA!!!
YOU ARE A REAL GAME PLAYER!
CHEAPNESS IS FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE PRESSURE AND DO NOT LEARN FROM
THERE MISTAKE!!
Posted by jiMboE!! on 02:09:2001 09:41 PM:
YO WHEN YOUR RIGHT YOUR RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG IM THE BOMB!!!
Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:44 PM:
"Geese, the handicrapcom disease really exists."[/B][/QUOTE]
I hope that isn't me you want to start picking on Mister...You've got a big
storm ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL^0^
-the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet
[This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-09-2001).]
Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:49 PM:
"Scrubs think that being cheap is the big shit."[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, you need to learn to do that. Maybe you will start winning... Stop acting
like a sour puss and grow up. Just face the facts man. The only way you can win
is to join the crowd and minipulate what they are doing.
"Listen to the woman"- Sidney played by Wesley Snipes from "White Men Can't
Jump"
-the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet
[This message has been edited by cocoumi (edited 02-09-2001).]
Posted by cocoumi on 02:09:2001 11:58 PM:
Why do "boys" complain about cheapness when in fact it is the "cheapness" that
people use to compete? Are we all "against the rules" because the game is
formated in a way in which the fastest fingers, and the greatest traps...
"Boys", "boys", "boys"...
-the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:10:2001 12:56 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
I hope that isn't me you want to start picking on Mister...You've got a big
storm ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL^0^
I'm not precisely worried about that.
And about those two idiots that cannot turn their CapsLock off: You better start
shouting 'cause that doesn't make your sayings valid.
Posted by cocoumi on 02:10:2001 04:47 AM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ImMature:
[B] Fine. Now go read the thread. Cause all that stuff has been already debated
in pages 5-8 or so, y'know?
Wait a second... This folder happens to be about this specific issue. Don't tell
me to look back at the thread if this is indeed the argument, bud. If the
subject we are conversing about now does NOT pertain to "the cheapness" issue,
you need to go make a new folder or something.
-the cute little lady in the grey dress and the flying tripplet
Posted by SithKilla on 02:10:2001 10:41 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Pokai-Chong:
HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!HAAA!!!
YOU ARE A REAL GAME PLAYER!
CHEAPNESS IS FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE PRESSURE AND DO NOT LEARN FROM
THERE MISTAKE!!
I see some of us are not familiar with the concept of sarcasm. It was a joke my
friend. If you had read the previous posts you would have known this.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by ImMature on 02:10:2001 10:57 AM:
To Pokai-Chong & cocoumi the she-Crapcom zombie: I just don't get why this site
doesn't change its name to 'Beavis-n-Butthead.com' instead. %90 of the people
here are retard zombies anyways. Ok so according to ya "Cable RULZ. And SF could
kick football's ass anyday. Huh huh Huh. Hey Seth can we be in your gang now??
Huh huh huh". Nuff said...
Posted by cocoumi on 02:10:2001 10:12 PM:
ImMature... That explains a lot about you...Oh, why can't you just do the mature
thing and stop insulting our inteligence? Stay on the topic my child...
Posted by ImMature on 02:10:2001 10:34 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
ImMature... That explains a lot about you...
Shit why 9 out of 10 Crapcom zombies end up pointing the same thing?? Do all of
you think alike or what?? <-- Rethorical question of course: I already know
you do
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
Oh, why can't you just do the mature thing and stop insulting our inteligence?
Stay on the topic my child...
Ok so just read the thread before posting, mom
Posted by ImMature on 02:11:2001 10:38 AM:
BUMP!
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:11:2001 08:31 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Ok so just read the thread before posting, mom
Muahaha, not only you have a net boss, but now you have a net mom. Lol.
Cocoumi: If you want to see what others think about Se...errm your thoughs, read
the entire thread.
Posted by cocoumi on 02:11:2001 09:10 PM:
OKAY FINE!!!!!!!!! The THREAD happens to be about this topic I see... But I can
see clearly that you guys jsut want to start beef with me because I'm a girl.
That's so easy to see. And what is even more bothersome is the fact that I now
what I'm talking about, AND THAT IS EVEN MORE INTIMIDATING to yall! I've had
enough of angry young testosterone... Where are the MEN AT???????
-"KIKOSHO," says the cute little lady in the grey dress
Posted by ImMature on 02:11:2001 10:07 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
OKAY FINE!!!!!!!!! The THREAD happens to be about this topic I see... But I
can see clearly that you guys jsut want to start beef with me because I'm a
girl. That's so easy to see. And what is even more bothersome is the fact that
I now what I'm talking about, AND THAT IS EVEN MORE INTIMIDATING to yall! I've
had enough of angry young testosterone... Where are the MEN AT???????
Hell yeah you got it %100, we're male chauvinist pigs only picking on ya cause
you're a chick that intimidates us and stuff. In fact I personally am more of a
sexist bastard than Billy Kane himself so now "Go home and have children, toots"
(Billy's winquote in RBFF) instead of being here talking about VGs you chicks
will NEVER EVER be good at, not in a millon years. Go make your BF dinner, will
ya? Oh and did I mention we're yellow supremacists too? See, ole eeeevil EndLeSS
sent us here as a special internet force (codename: The Three Morons) to promote
azn superiority but since none of us are actually azn we've chosen to pick on
little gals instead. Y'know, it's a pity that we lost one of our Morons due to
his adittion to lego porn, but we're still doing our best anyways...
(Well since this is SRK.com I'll hafta point it out clearly: the stuff above was
SARCASM)
[This message has been edited by ImMature (edited 02-11-2001).]
Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 02:12:2001 03:34 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
(Well since this is SRK.com I'll hafta point it out clearly: the stuff above
was SARCASM)[This message has been edited by ImMature (edited 02-11-2001).]
LOL!!! Nothin' really! Just stalkin' around and reading stuffs. So please don't
mind me and continue in your ammusing flame war ppl.
Posted by CaliStorm on 02:12:2001 05:18 AM:
There is no such thing as cheapness. These are all different patterns,
lockdowns, and experiences that just make some players than others. If you think
something is cheap, then I think your a scrub and should play games like Mario
Bros. or something. But dont come to Shoryuken.com or any arcade and cry about
something being cheap. Final!
Posted by ej_333 on 02:12:2001 07:53 AM:
This thread is STILL going on?! Truly amazing!
Posted by ImMature on 02:12:2001 08:21 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by CaliStorm:
There is no such thing as cheapness. These are all different patterns,
lockdowns, and experiences that just make some players than others. If you
think something is cheap, then I think your a scrub and should play games like
Mario Bros. or something. But dont come to Shoryuken.com or any arcade and cry
about something being cheap. Final!
Sigh yet another Crapcom zombie repeating stuff that has been already debated a
loooong time ago. Oh well there is only a way to communicate with the average
SRK.com poster,
*Beavis & Butthead mode on*
Huh huh huh. Yeah yeah yeah. Ssssssscrubs. Scrubs suck. They sssssuck! Heh heh
heh. Cable rulz, he takes no skill. Huh huh huh. Skill sucks! If I wanted to
spend a lot of time learning something I'd go to school. Skill SUCKS! Heh heh
heh. But s-kull RULZ, he can kick your mom's ass at Super Turbo. Huh huh huh.
Hey Seth can we be in your gang now?
Posted by AKUMA2000 on 02:12:2001 09:44 AM:
There is NO such thing as "cheapness", your ONLY objective in a fighting game is
to "fight & kill" your opponent no matter HOW it's done. Everybody's gameplay
mentality is different on the battlefield, i play using any means necessary to
win the fight, because to me it's all about which warrior is left standing. If
you're a gamer who thinks the opponent has to fight "honorable" or "fair", you
won't win many games because you'll be to fustrated to play rather than adapt to
your opponent's playing style and work around it.
AKUMA'S LAIR
http://members.tripod.com/~Streetfighter_3/akuma-stance-2.gif
"It's All About Which Warrior Is Left Standing"
Posted by TS on 02:12:2001 10:36 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Sigh yet another Crapcom zombie repeating stuff that has been already debated
a loooong time ago. Oh well there is only a way to communicate with the
average SRK.com poster,
This is why people don't like you.
Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies."
You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because
they're zombies...it's probably because you're a pair of assholes.
Thank you.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:12:2001 04:03 PM:
ej_333: Hey man, this thread will go on forever, every time the discussion ends,
someone will pop up and state the same thing that was said on page #1 and
debated through 15 pages. Besides, we still have to beat Duc's record of 900+
posts in a single thread.
Now to the retard department:
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
This is why people don't like you.
Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies."
You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because
they're zombies...it's probably because you're a pair of assholes.
Thank you.
Nope, people repeating stuff that was debated to death during 15 pages are
zombies.
And people not liking us? Errrm, I never said I was looking for fame.
Besides we're the "Three Morons" not "assholes". BTW, it seems we lost one
"Moron" because of personal affairs (including Lego stuff).
Posted by Gamer X on 02:12:2001 06:52 PM:
Hey O.Ryoga, can I be a Moron too? Its better than being a Crapcom zombie.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:12:2001 07:12 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamer X:
Hey O.Ryoga, can I be a Moron too? Its better than being a Crapcom zombie.
Well, we have an empty seat at the Three Morons team, so you're welcome.
BTW, does anybody know if Seth is around?
Posted by SithKilla on 02:13:2001 12:34 AM:
Your mother O.Ryoga!! Damnit fucking MvC2 is cheap! Throwing is cheap! Fireballs
are cheap! Killing your opponent is
Cheap! Putting the quarter in the machine is cheap! Puleez
I never understood why people care so much about what other people think. Some
people just want to post thier views and leave. Repeating happens alot. It comes
with having to type messages from places like maryland obliviously to have it
flamed in Botswana Africa.
By the way i'm not pointing fingers at anybody specificly. Just the ones acting
stupid.
[This message has been edited by SithKilla (edited 02-12-2001).]
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 12:54 AM:
What's up, Sith? Didn't get what you said.
BTW, I found a place to play for 12.5 cents the go (in fact the promo is 1 buck
= 8 coins), so I can be cheaper than you.
Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 01:20 AM:
To Gamer X: Welcome to our Team man!
To Sithkilla: Hmmm do you happen to have any problem? C'mon you can tell us,
we're all friends, ain't we?
To Ryoga: Well it seems like the Three Morons ride again & stuff. Gee I wonder
where D'artagnan (ie Kamui) is. It is me or both this guy and his arch-enemy are
way too much into Lego porn? There is a huge flamewar running beetwen the 2 at
the LegoPorn4Ever forum. It started when Yojimbo announced that Lego was gonna
be adqired by Crapcom. Oh how do I know, you ask?? Errrr I'm into Lego porn too
Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 01:40 AM:
And now just to honour our long-lost "Leader" I'm gonna reply to this post
Yojimbo-style:
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
This is why people don't like you.
WTF people aint too much fond of u neither. Been in the general disscusion forum
lately?? Besides what do u think this is an amercian high school?? I dun give a
rats arse about people likin me or not
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
Two people having the same opinion are automatically "crapcom zombies."
Its not just 2 people having the same opinion its a bunch of Crapcom loving
idiots from yokel hicksville USA acting like brainwashed. Dont like it? So what
u gonna do To come over to my country and beat me up? Wait your turn then hippy
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
You should aslo consider that maybe people don't like you and O.Ryoga because
they're zombies...
U keep defendin people who are talkin crap behind ur back at the other forum??
Oh boy have you no education or brains at all?
quote:
Originally posted by TS:
it's probably because you're a pair of assholes.
Hey why to flame us for no good reason at all? We are just minding our own
bussiness so dont drag our innocent little SNK lemings selfs to ur level you
ignorant Clapcom flamer
Posted by Scypher Wing on 02:13:2001 02:02 AM:
Was not this thread suppose to be about Cheapness, not bashing? it's really
funny how some topics turn out completely different
http://www.geocities.com/to2008/SWtag.gif
Posted by Aoishi2AL on 02:13:2001 02:56 AM:
I'm kinda lost. What the hell is legoporn?
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/8681/pic_end_01t.jpg
"You want me don't you..."
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 02:58 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Scypher Wing:
Was not this thread suppose to be about Cheapness, not bashing? it's really
funny how some topics turn out completely different
Errmmm, yeap, but you know how this is when you talk with Crapcom zombies, don't
you? (Hmmm, I wonder which side of the road are you walking on).
To ImMature: Heh, I've also seen that Lego porn thing and it's kinda adictive. I
guess I'll have to ask Zyzy about that.
BTW, that Yojimbo style reply was hillarious. Which makes me wonder what would
happen if a boss style thread appears.
Posted by TS on 02:13:2001 04:58 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ImMature:
Its not just 2 people having the same opinion its a bunch of Crapcom loving
idiots from yokel hicksville USA acting like brainwashed.
You can't really be that ignorant.
Here's what happens:
Someone posts a topic, people respond with their opinions. A lot of people
respond, and so more than likely, a lot of people will have similar opinions.
This does NOT mean they are copying each other (I doubt most of the responders
have read over a page of this thread).
Think think think.
Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 07:53 AM:
To Aoishi2AL:
"I'm kinda lost. What the hell is legoporn?"
Alas, Lego porn is the filthiest, most morally degrading kind of perversion
known to mankind. Sorry but I can't direct you to the LegoPorn4Ever website
until you can prove to me you're over 21. We don't want no kiddies giving away
their dads' credit card numbers, y'know?
To Ryoga:
"BTW, that Yojimbo style reply was hillarious."
Thank you. Y'know, that guy cracks me up so now I'm trying to learn his technics
so I can make some more people "visit" my country this year
"Which makes me wonder what would happen if a boss style thread appears."
Maybe Mr Pantsoffki can do something about it one of these days...
To TS:
"Here's what happens:
Someone posts a topic, people respond with their opinions. A lot of people
respond, and so more than likely, a lot of people will have similar opinions.
This does NOT mean they are copying each other"
Oh no, here you're right, they're definitely not copying each other; They're
exclusively copying Seth instead. BTW have noticed how many times the *EXACT*
phrase 'There is no such thing as cheapness' appears? Hari Krishna, Hari Hari,
Hari Krishna, Hari Hari etc...
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:13:2001 04:00 PM:
ImMature: Spain will have a lot of visitors during the summer break (and they
will all be from the US).
BTW, I came across some material on the net Dr.Pantsoffsky would like (You know,
Vanessa does an appearance at Yuri & friends 2000).
TS:
Do you know how many times I've heard Seth's trademark phrases:
"Cheapness doesn't exist, it's just a scrub whinning"
Or
"If it's in the game, it's not cheap"
(This are not the accurate, but are close to the ones they use, the meaning is
the same)
And even though they have been discussed to death, they keep appearing, which
means that followers of the cult haven't learned the dark secrets of "reading a
thread before posting".
And if you want more proof, check the "Balance in games" thread in this same
forum. You'll find the most retarded answers as:
"You want balance, I give you Karate Champ"
(which was used by Seth in his own thread about the matter)
Without thinking what is being discussed nor reading previous posts and, of
course, not thinking by themselves.
Another phrase I've heard was the:
"I give you Blue Ryu, Red Ryu, ... And I call it Ryufest". Or something like
that. When Crapcom already did that.
Guess that "thinking" is something that the followers of the cult left to
scientists.
[This message has been edited by O.Ryoga (edited 02-13-2001).]
Posted by bis on 02:13:2001 07:44 PM:
The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled
with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting like
kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call
everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them
but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and
even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well
,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even though
it is true.
This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday and
i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my team.
Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the cyke ,cable
combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal he had no
chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at all cause i
had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke setting me up it
was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good with her. Though it
didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So cheapness does exist
you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy that lives across the
street knows it, and that chick that rings the register at your local cvs knows
it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's true!"
Posted by Dan Hibiki on 02:13:2001 08:41 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by bis:
The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled
with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting
like kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call
everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them
but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and
even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well
,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even
though it is true.
This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday
and i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my
team. Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the
cyke ,cable combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal
he had no chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at
all cause i had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke
setting me up it was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good
with her. Though it didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So
cheapness does exist you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy
that lives across the street knows it, and that chick that rings the register
at your local cvs knows it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's
true!"
Damn ... I couldn't have said it better myself ... but lets try it anyway!
The reason people like to insult on this board , because this board is filled
with 14 yr old kids. I dont let them bother me cause there just kids acting like
kids. This term "scrub" i am very tired of, most of the people that call
everyone scrubs can't play that well! I know i could probaly beat most of them
but i don't name call. Also this topic has shown that cheapness does exist and
even the "experts' lol that makes me laugh so hard. Use cheap tactics as well
,but many of just disregard that fact and pretend it doesn't happen even though
it is true.
This game is all about cheap plain and simple i was beating people yesterday and
i know one guy had better skills then me. Yet he still lost cause of my team.
Cable ,cyke,sent he had mag,bison,cyke his magneto was great but the cyke ,cable
combo was to much. Factor in that Sent is just a complete animal he had no
chance. Also my side was a little missed up ,but i wasn't worried at all cause i
had cable. The viper beam makes you pay big time and with cyke setting me up it
was "silly good" =). He used storm as well and was damn good with her. Though it
didn't matter cause a 2x viper beam took care of her. So cheapness does exist
you know it , i know it ,the "experts" know it , the guy that lives across the
street knows it, and that chick that rings the register at your local cvs knows
it to as well. To quote kurt angle "it's true it's true!"
Yeah I think I said it better myself ^_^ LOL j/k ... good post ...
http://www.geocities.com/tenistarkage/Dan/Dankyokugen.gif Kyokugen Karate? I
wrote the book! Saikyo!
Justin
Posted by ImMature on 02:13:2001 09:31 PM:
Hey bis, I'm glad to see a post that makes sense AT LAST. Yep cheapness does
exist and I'm sure that even Seth himself, being the experienced player that he
is, knows it already without the shadow of a doubt. Being cheap in order to win
is another matter entirely. Even though I endorse (more or less) honorable
gameplay I can deal with it, some people play like that and that's ok (unless
they keep using cheap+retarded, no-brainer patterns over & over again REGARDLESS
of if they're actually working or not; that's something that I can't stand).
Besides, knowing how to be cheap & how to counteract cheap tactics is a part of
knowing a game after all. So if someone wanna play cheaply is ok to some exent
but at least they should know they're being cheap and not try to deny it. My 2
cents
Posted by Gamer X on 02:13:2001 11:00 PM:
I couldn't agree with bis more. Keep speaking the truth bis.
Posted by SithKilla on 02:14:2001 12:09 AM:
Immature: Just joking around man. I hear so much silly stuff like what i just
posted. I was just pointing out how stupid it was thats all.
And what makes it so sad is that sombody actually told me blocking was cheap.
Damnit O.Ryoga this is your fault!! You want some? come get some!! I'm taking a
plane from north america to whip your ass!!
Oh wait we werent' arguing about anything sorry. Just built up rage. I guess i
should read all the posts before i make any comments lol.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:14:2001 12:48 AM:
SithKilla:
Actually, by blocking you're cheaply avoiding getting hit which leaves no other
tactic that complaining, pressing your buttons and touching the nearest girl
butt.
Well, if you come here, I must warn you I'm cheap as hell when fighting.
BTW, if you read all the posts, you would know that the current subject is Lego
porn and not cheapness.
For those that are not too used to BBSs, everything should be taken as a joke in
this post (Well except for my fighting style).
Posted by TS on 02:14:2001 07:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
TS:
Do you know how many times I've heard Seth's trademark phrases:
"Cheapness doesn't exist, it's just a scrub whinning"
Or
"If it's in the game, it's not cheap"
(This are not the accurate, but are close to the ones they use, the meaning is
the same)
You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since
forever.
quote:
And even though they have been discussed to death, they keep appearing, which
means that followers of the cult haven't learned the dark secrets of "reading
a thread before posting".
And if you want more proof, check the "Balance in games" thread in this same
forum. You'll find the most retarded answers as:
"You want balance, I give you Karate Champ"
(which was used by Seth in his own thread about the matter)
Without thinking what is being discussed nor reading previous posts and, of
course, not thinking by themselves.
They agreed with the statement. And an extremely small number of people have
used the phrase.
If you don't agree, talk about it. Don't just go "you're a crapcom zombie,
nyuurrrr...SNK is good...SNK is God...I will only play SNK...but you're a
zombie!! Brains....BRAINS!!!"
quote:
Another phrase I've heard was the:
"I give you Blue Ryu, Red Ryu, ... And I call it Ryufest". Or something like
that. When Crapcom already did that.
You don't play Capcom games, so you really don't know what you're talking about
here...feel free to try to explain though, if you like.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:14:2001 10:53 PM:
"You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since
forever."
Even though, that belief only exists in this board. Strange isn't it?
"If you don't agree, talk about it."
That's what I tried in this thread, but from time to time, one idiot appeares
stating the same thing that was beaten to death during many pages in the same
thread. Do you see how stupid is that people that jumps into a thread without
reading it and states the same things that were already discussed without adding
anything new to the thread?
Answer that, 'cause it's a big part of being a "zombie".
"feel free to try to explain though, if you like."
You're right I didn't play Crapcom games for a big while, but don't tell me you
don't see certain amount of rehash in the series. I know there is a little thing
here, and another thing there to make them look different, but that means
nothing to me, a rehash is a rehash.
Posted by Drunkengameplayer on 02:14:2001 10:56 PM:
*Totall of topic comment*
Wow, I thought this thread would have been closed by know. Oh well, who
cares....... damn I need to get off my lazy ass and get some chored done today
http://www.geocities.com/transparent_mind/rtags_folder/drunken.gif Stung by
flagging album sales and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's worst
nightmare, shock rocker Marilyn Manson has embarked on a door-to-door tour of
suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average
Americans.
Posted by TS on 02:15:2001 12:20 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
"You're playing too much Connect the Dots. People have been saying that since
forever."
Even though, that belief only exists in this board. Strange isn't it?
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it doesn't exist at the place(s)
you hang. But to say that it only exists here is extremely incorrect. People
have had the same attitude about every "cheap" thing in every game, ever.
quote:
"If you don't agree, talk about it."
That's what I tried in this thread, but from time to time, one idiot appeares
stating the same thing that was beaten to death during many pages in the same
thread. Do you see how stupid is that people that jumps into a thread without
reading it and states the same things that were already discussed without
adding anything new to the thread?
Ignore them. They just wanted to drop in their 2 cents.
quote:
Answer that, 'cause it's a big part of being a "zombie".
It's called responding to the thread.
quote:
"feel free to try to explain though, if you like."
You're right I didn't play Crapcom games for a big while, but don't tell me
you don't see certain amount of rehash in the series. I know there is a little
thing here, and another thing there to make them look different, but that
means nothing to me, a rehash is a rehash.
I see a certain rehash in KOF, and Samurai Showdown, and Metal Slug, and Street
Fighter, and Mortal Kombat. And every series that has sequel. But since you
don't play the games, you can't really say how much has really changed...Marvel
vs Capcom 1 and MvC2 are HUGELY different games, as are SFA2 and SFA3, and so
are SF2 and SF3, for that matter. I could look at someone playing KOF2k, and say
"that's KOF '96 with Strikers, and more characters. But, I'm pretty sure I'd be
wrong. I couldn't tell you why...but I don't just assume that it's just the same
old stuff.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:15:2001 12:55 AM:
"Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it doesn't exist at the place(s)
you hang. But to say that it only exists here is extremely incorrect. People
have had the same attitude about every "cheap" thing in every game, ever."
Well, this place is visited by US people and a few guys from outside (well,
maybe Canada has a big presence here, and Hawaii if you consider multiple
personalities ).
On the other hand, most KoF boards have people from US, Latin America, Europe,
and some countries like Singapour (I know there's people from NZ as well, but
I've only seen one). I'm talking about a wide range of ethnicies (dunno if I
written it right) and countries, showing a broader range of opinions. And most
of them will tell you the same.
I didn't know that was the general belief here when I first came, and it's
strange to see that most people agrees with one guy in almost all arguments.
"Ignore them. They just wanted to drop in their 2 cents."
If someone already did, why not try and give us a better explanation of their
reasons to think that way?
"It's called responding to the thread."
If I come to a thread and agree with a guy then I say "I agree with you", I
don't repost the same thing. BTW, if I agree with someone, that means I made
some thinking process and that was it's result, why not try to discuss it? Why
just repost something that was already said? Why make another thread repeating
what was already discussed? That shows real low intelligence.
"I see a certain rehash in KOF..."
One thing, talk only about fighters, we know that titles like Metal Slug or
Raiden won't change too much from one to the other, even though, I like it when
a company finds that little twist that makes a game funnier to play the the
previous one. Play Metal Slug and Metal Slug 3 and you'll see a big difference.
Now, by rehash I don't mean "small likeness", I talk about "almost identical".
See Ryu and Ken. Oh yeah, one has blonde hair and fire in his DP while the other
has a red bandana. Gameplaywise, they differ in priority, reach and strength of
their moves. But they have the same moves, the same animation, I mean same
bodies, different head (and maybe a T-Shirt or a glowing Kanji) but they are too
similar. On the other hand, SNK change their characters moves every year, so
that they don't look nor play the same (play Ryo and Robert in KoF'94 and play
them in KoF2000), they don't even have moves that resemble each other (at least,
not the entire moveset).
Posted by TS on 02:15:2001 01:21 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by O.Ryoga:
I didn't know that was the general belief here when I first came, and it's
strange to see that most people agrees with one guy in almost all arguments.
If there weren't people who considered almost nothing to be cheap, then nobody
would complain about cheapness. But there's always some guy willing to play WW
Guile, or do whatever to win. "If it's in the game, it's fair." Not everybody
agrees with it, but a lot of people do.
quote:
"It's called responding to the thread."
If I come to a thread and agree with a guy then I say "I agree with you", I
don't repost the same thing. BTW, if I agree with someone, that means I made
some thinking process and that was it's result, why not try to discuss it? Why
just repost something that was already said? Why make another thread repeating
what was already discussed? That shows real low intelligence.
Not everybody wants to wade through 300 or 400 posts. Some people want to have
their voices heard, and have that be the end of it.
quote:
Now, by rehash I don't mean "small likeness", I talk about "almost identical".
See Ryu and Ken. Oh yeah, one has blonde hair and fire in his DP while the
other has a red bandana. Gameplaywise, they differ in priority, reach and
strength of their moves. But they have the same moves, the same animation, I
mean same bodies, different head (and maybe a T-Shirt or a glowing Kanji) but
they are too similar. On the other hand, SNK change their characters moves
every year, so that they don't look nor play the same (play Ryo and Robert in
KoF'94 and play them in KoF2000), they don't even have moves that resemble
each other (at least, not the entire moveset).
Well let's take Ryo and Terry. Ryo will have an orange karate gi as his standard
outfit, with a black undershirt. He'll still have that Haohshoukoken dealy, and
he'll have a DP type move and/or a crouching Fierce that goes straight up. Air
fireball is probable.
In 9 out of 10 games Terry will Have a red vest with a white star on the back,
and he'll have a red hat, which he will throw off at some point. He will always
either have his Rising Tackle or Power Dunk, and will always have his Power
Geyser. Burn Knuckle and Crack Shoot are negotiable, but he'll have at least one
(more than likely, the Crack Shoot).
Just because the movelist doesn't change, doesn't mean the moves and characters
stay the same. Ryu is the worst character in SF2:WW, and the best in SF2:HF.
Same moves, for the most part. They just act differently (DP didn't knock down
standing opponents in WW, Hurricane Kick has a tiny bit of invincibility on
startup in HF, and his fireball is faster, in addition to the entire game being
sped up, along with some other minor stuff). Guile is one of the best characters
in HF, but an underdog in ST, and one of the worst characters in the game in
SFA3. One of the best characters in the game again in CvS. Wolverine was the
best character in the game in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter, but is only
decent (and only kind of decent) in Marvel vs Capcom 2. Same moves, for the most
part.
In SF games, the number of and the looks of moves don't always differ, but
you're forced use the characters to which they belong differently (If you try to
play A3 Honda like ST Honda you'll get yourself killed in a hurry).
No, the differences in SF characters between games isn't obvious at first...they
generally aren't missing or have gained more than a few things from their last
appearance. But those things can change a character a LOT.
Posted by O.Ryoga on 02:15:2001 03:05 AM:
"If there weren't people who considered almost nothing to be cheap, then nobody
would complain about cheapness."
The "cheapness" thing isn't a matter of discussion in KoF forums as everybody
knows what it is, and I never though necessary to see people having the opposite
belief. BTW, it's not complaining, last weekend I played MvsC2 with a friend
(not against my friend, we just exchanged turns) and I told him to pick Cable,
we laughed for hours as he called me an "ashamed cheapo" for the way I used that
character.
"Some people want to have their voices heard, and have that be the end of it."
I understand the amount of posts thing, but I'm expecting to see something new
in the new threads and all I see is the same statement being repeated over and
over as if the prior thread never existed.
"Well let's take..."
I'm not talking about characters having the same moveset from game to game, I'm
talking about "different" characters having the same moves with some differences
in priority and stuff. They made the same body and animation with slight changes
and that's crap.
Oh, and Ryo has changed from day 1, obviously some attacks remain the same (DP,
Super Fire ball and Ryuuko Ranbu) but several changed (FB, Kick special and no
more air FB, except for striker). Terry has changed too, he has varied his
fireball reach from game to game and gained new Supers, but I agree it's not
that much. On the other hand Ryu and Ken seem to never change at all (I know
some changes they came across, but if you just look at what they can do, they
seem the same guys from SF2 + a coupe of supers). BTW, I'm not saying that they
play the same as SF2.
Posted by cocoumi on 02:16:2001 11:49 PM:
Snif snif... CHEAPNESS ONLY EXSISTS IN THE EYES OF THE LOOSERS!
"HAZAN....TENSHOKYAKU!!!!!"
Posted by SithKilla on 02:16:2001 11:54 PM:
wow sombody should have said that earlier.
[img] C:\bbandit.gif.gif [/img]
Excuses: Excuses are tools of incopotence which builds monuments of nothingness
and those that specialize in their use are seldom capable of anything else.
Excuses.
Posted by ImMature on 02:16:2001 11:57 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by cocoumi:
Snif snif... CHEAPNESS ONLY EXSISTS IN THE EYES OF THE LOOSERS!
Who says?
Posted by Chocobo on 02:17:2001 06:16 AM:
ORyoga and Immature, I have a few questions for you. Here are some things you've
said so far-
"It's not abt who wins, it's abt how much fun you've got from the token.
Things like infinities, turtling and repeated throwing are cheap.
There is no need for a skilled player to resort to cheap patterns anymore, cause
he can still win in a more stylish way.
Cheap players bore me."
It is clear that you are not a person who plays for the competition of SF, not a
person who plays to win... instead, you play to look good, to find and use showy
combos, to get a crowd response, that sort of thing... more of a Harlem
Globetrotters fan than an NBA fan, to relate it to sports.
I'm hoping you can answer all of these questions... first, why are you here?
This is mainly a forum for people who play SF for the competitive aspect of the
game, people who play to win, people who don't care about fancy stuff. I might
expect to see you in the "Combos" section, but in a place where strategy is
discussed, you admittedly have no place here.
Why are you arguing against skilled tournament players? You each share different
views... you play to show off, they play to win. You don't like "cheap" stuff
because it's boring and simple, they only care about trying their hardest to
win. What is an argument going to accomplish? You won't convert anyone to agree
with your ideas, especially a top tournament competitor. You won't influence
anyone with your complaints about "cheap" play, because when it comes to
competitive playing (which is what most of the people on here care about), there
is no such thing as "cheap" since only winning matters.
Why do you insult Seth Killian? He provides useful information to the kind of
player who enjoys playing to win. Seth doesn't care much for people like you who
play for the combos or showoff style of play, but there's no point in insulting
him or getting all offensive against him and the people on here who play to win.
There's nothing wrong with playing to win, just like there's nothing wrong with
playing to show off and look good or whatever. Seth doesn't complain about and
insult the players like you who go for showy combos... he insults the stupid
people who think they like to play to win, but just use "cheap" as an excuse for
their losses due to a lack of skill on their part.
Finally, I just want to respond to a particular one of your comments, where you
say that a truly skilled player does not need to resort to patterns and general
"cheapness" in order to win. Well, what happens if he goes up against another
skilled player, when he actually does need those tactics to win?
You need to understand, most people play SF with winning as their goal, and
complaining about cheapness accomplishes nothing but annoying a lot of people.
I'm just hoping that everyone here can see things from the other person's point
of view and that this stupid thread (which is now mostly composed of retarded
childish insults, launched not because the other person said something stupid...
just something different) can die. After the first few pages, there's nothing
but insults for a few hundred straight posts.
Posted by Pungza on 02:17:2001 10:05 AM:
Damn this thread is a hit. Just talking about cheapness has alot of response.
Cheapness exist in everygame. i hope MvsC3 is not like MvsC3. I am thinking
right what is more cheapper then that game.
http://www.geocities.com/pungza/twentyonepositions3.gif
I like girls with nice blues eyes and ice cream thighs
Posted by Lupid on 02:17:2001 11:07 AM:
Chocobo you'd better stop that. Here the scrubs are trying to have a nice chat
about how they're too stupid to stop throws and turtling, and you have to come
and ask questions that they surely can't answer for fear of being ejected from
the scrub support group known as SRK forums. Hey if they're too dumb to answer
your questions, that makes your questions CHEAP!
"Gayness" does exist.
[This message has been edited by Lupid (edited 02-16-2001).]
Posted by ImMature on 02:17:2001 03:18 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Chocobo:
ORyoga and Immature, I have a few questions for you. Here are some things
you've said so far-
"It's not abt who wins, it's abt how much fun you've got from the token.
Things like infinities, turtling and repeated throwing are cheap.
There is no need for a skilled player to resort to cheap patterns anymore,
cause he can still win in a more stylish way.
Cheap players bore me."
It is clear that you are not a person who plays for the competition of SF, not
a person who plays to win... instead, you play to look good, to find and use
showy combos, to get a crowd response, that sort of thing... more of a Harlem
Globetrotters fan than an NBA fan, to relate it to sports.
I'm hoping you can answer all of these questions... first, why are you here?
This is mainly a forum for people who play SF for the competitive aspect of
the game, people who play to win, people who don't care about fancy stuff. I
might expect to see you in the "Combos" section, but in a place where strategy
is discussed, you admittedly have no place here.
Well first off, we're from the SNK "community" so we don't really care much
about SF. Secondly, I have to disagree with you on this forum being mainly for
people who care only about the competitive aspects of the game (if you do mean
tournaments with that,as I think you do). Cause c'mon, most people here are NOT
tournament players, but what Seth called 'mall' or arcade players instead. What
happens with all that people? In tournaments you should do whatever it takes to
win, we've already said that about a millon times. Who cares about more or less
honorable gameplay or cheapness when in tournies (unless some of the possible
tactics have been disallowed, that's it)?? I think everybody agrees on this
point. But if your question really is, "What are you doing here if you don't
like SF/VS series?"...well, that's a different matter entirely
quote:
Originally posted by Chocobo:
Why are you arguing against skilled tournament players? You each share
different views... you play to show off, they play to win. You don't like
"cheap" stuff because it's boring and simple, they only care about trying
their hardest to win. What is an argument going to accomplish? You won't
convert anyone to agree with your ideas, especially a top tournament
competitor. You won't influence anyone with your complaints about "cheap"
play, because when it comes to competitive playing (which is what most of the
people on here care about), there is no such thing as "cheap" since only
winning matters.
Iif tournament players would have cared to actually read our posts before
starting mindlessly flamming us they'd have discovered that we ALREADY have
stated that in that kind of competitions (tournies) you should do WHATEVER IT
TAKES TO WIN regardless of these kinda tactics they hafta use being cheap or
not. If you don't believe me ask Jinmaster. He was open-minded enough to try and
understand what we were talking about and that's why you don't see him flamming
us anymore (or vice versa). What we're trying to accomplish here is to make
people consider they shouldn't rely EXCLUSIVELY in that kinda tactics cause once
the competence learns how to counteract 'em they'd be dead meat if they don't
know other kind of alternate tactics. We're trying to make people IMPROVE their
gameplay by knowing the game better so they don't have to rely only in cheap
tactics in order to win like most cheapos tend to do (in the SNK community
*this* is the type of player who gets called 'scrub' in case you don't know)
quote:
Originally posted by Chocobo:
Why do you insult Seth Killian? He provides useful information to the kind of
player who enjoys playing to win. Seth doesn't care much for people like you
who play for the combos or showoff style of play, but there's no point in
insulting him or getting all offensive against him and the people on here who
play to win. There's nothing wrong with playing to win, just like there's
nothing wrong with playing to show off and look good or whatever. Seth doesn't
complain about and insult the players like you who go for showy combos... he
insults the stupid people who think they like to play to win, but just use
"cheap" as an excuse for their losses due to a lack of skill on their part.
Well actually it's not that we insult Seth Killian himself too much, we do tend
to insult his "followers" instead for not being able to think for themselves.
About Seth I admit I believe he's a smart guy who makes sense on some of the
things he says (like in that article of his about tournie videos among others).
But why I wonder is, why does he find the need to call scrub to anyone who
disagrees with him in complex, abstract issues (like those relative to cheapness
or balance) where absolutely no one will end up having the last word? What makes
him think he's the utmost authority when it comes to VGs? And even in the points
where he does make sense, why to insult people BEFOREHAND to make his point
clear? I really don't get it, why does he feel the need to wield such a
self-righteus attitude?
quote:
Originally posted by Chocobo:
Finally, I just want to respond to a particular one of your comments, where
you say that a truly skilled player does not need to resort to patterns and
general "cheapness" in order to win. Well, what happens if he goes up against
another skilled player, when he actually does need those tactics to win?
Against another *equally or more* skilled player when he does need those tactics
to win? Hell he should use whatever it takes to kick his ass! Leave the
honorable gameplay for other challenges, y'know? Or do you think I NEVER play
cheaply AT ALL?? But what we're debating here is the existence of cheapness, not
honorable gameplay, remember?
quote:
Originally posted by Chocobo:
You need to understand, most people play SF with winning as their goal, and
complaining about cheapness accomplishes nothing but annoying a lot of people.
I'm just hoping that everyone here can see things from the other person's
point of view and that this stupid thread (which is now mostly composed of
retarded childish insults, launched not because the other person said
something stupid... just something different) can die. After the first few
pages, there's nothing but insults for a few hundred straight posts.
Who is complaining? See above. We're debating about the EXISTANCE OF CHEAPNESS
here. Cheapness is an ingame aspect. Complaints are human reactions. Different
things, y'know?
Posted by HyperViperSniper on 02:17:2001 03:46 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Pungza:
Damn this thread is a hit. Just talking about cheapness has alot of response.
Cheapness exist in everygame. i hope MvsC3 is not like MvsC3. I am thinking
right what is more cheapper then that game.
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/pungza/twentyonepositions3.gif">
I like girls with nice blues eyes and ice cream thighs
This has to be one of the most foul signatures I have ever seen....
ugh...
HVS
Posted by ImMature on 02:17:2001 03:52 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by HyperViperSniper:
This has to be one of the most foul signatures I have ever seen....
ugh...
HVS
That signature kicked royal butt!
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